6 ms·

What's keeping any one of these Id software developers from accepting a competing job offer elsewhere? Yes, there are scenarios where employees are stripped of

by Manuel_D 10mo ago

What's keeping any one of these Id software developers from accepting a competing job offer elsewhere? Yes, there are scenarios where employees are stripped of agency. E.g a factory owner taking and holding foreign worker's passports. But if you're going to allege that something is preventing these works from accepting competing offers, you have to offer evidence for that claim.

buellerbueller 10mo ago
WHat's keeping a company from providing fair wages, fair labor practices such that unions are unnecessary? EDIT: I guess you can just downvote, sure, but why not engage?
- popalchemist 10mo ago
  You are correct. Unions do not exist to exploit employers, they exist precisely to make working conditions acceptable (livable) and no more, most of the time. There are outliers, like Police unions, which have ulterior motives, but on the whole it is a labor movement meant to prevent the abhorrent conditions to which capitalism naturally backslides, which we saw after the industrial revolution.
Daishiman 10mo ago
> What's keeping any one of these Id software developers from accepting a competing job offer elsewhere? * Employer-bound health insurance in the US * Industry blacklists to exclude uppity employees and union members * Noncompetes and NDAs * Extremely localized jobs and an ever-shrinking number of larger and larger conglomerates as employers
- Manuel_D 10mo ago
  > Employer-bound health insurance in the US Benefits are part of an employees compensation package. A competing offer could have even better healthcare than Id. > Industry blacklists to exclude uppity employees and union members. This is illegal and the last time SV companies were found doing this the government punished them Is there any evidence that this is happening to Id employees? > Noncompetes Illegal in CA where ID is based. NDAs don't prevent you from working at competitors, only from taking confidential info. > Extremely localized jobs and an ever-shrinking number of larger and larger conglomerates as employers. Id is located in the Bay Area, probably the place with the greatest concentration of software jobs in the country if not the world.
  - Daishiman 10mo ago
    > Benefits are part of an employees compensation package. A competing offer could have even better healthcare than Id. If a period of unemployment kicks you off an insurance program that's covering life-essential treatment for a loved one, there is no mechanism of "choosing freely" here; ex-employees don't have the option of covering health care themselves and there are no guarantees that the other employer's health care will cover existing treatments even if the coverage is better in theory. > This is illegal and the last time SV companies were found doing this the government punished them Every recruiter has spreadsheets of blacklisted employees, one of the reasons why companies frequently outsource staffing to outsides for plausible deniability. > Illegal in CA where ID is based. NDAs don't prevent you from working at competitors, only from taking confidential info. So illegal en CA but legal pretty much everywhere else, once again limiting you if you want to move because COL is too high in California and reducing the pool of real employment alternatives. > Id is located in the Bay Area, probably the place with the greatest concentration of software jobs in the country if not the world. Software jobs but not gaming jobs. California suffers from an artificial shortage of affordable housing due to insane tax laws and building restrictions. There's nothing free market about this.
    - Manuel_D 10mo ago
      Id employees can apply for jobs while remaining employed at Id. You're writing as though Id employees must first quit their jobs before seeking a new one. And even if they do have a period of unemployment between jobs, COBRA continues to cover them for up to a year. > Every recruiter has spreadsheets of blacklisted employees If you're going to allege illegal anti-poaching agreements, you ought to provide evidence of those claims. > So illegal en CA but legal pretty much everywhere else, once again limiting you if you want to move because COL is too high in California and reducing the pool of real employment alternatives. Actually, I just checked this and in 2024 the FTC banned non competes nationwide. > Software jobs but not gaming jobs. California suffers from an artificial shortage of affordable housing due to insane tax laws and building restrictions. There's nothing free market about this. And? Id software developers are free to work non-gaming software jobs. A big part of the reason why game dev jobs offer less renumeration is because people are passionate about games and are willing to take a pay cut to work in the industry. If an Id employee is not willing to work non-gaming software development jobs that's a restriction imposed by their own decisions, not by their employers. People in this thread are comparing Id software developers to slavery. The fact that they'll have to go on COBRA in between jobs doesn't make this comparison to slavery any less absurd.
linuxftw 10mo ago
Remember when the tech companies got caught making deals not to poach each other's employees? Maybe they can just start their own company. Well, you can't for the existing players to peer traffic with you if you need heavy network access.
- Manuel_D 10mo ago
  Do you have evidence that Id is being subject to some sort of no poach deal? Nobody doubts that employers can curb worker's ability to accept competing offers. The question is whether there's actually any evidence backing up the claim that Id employees aren't free to leave.
  - salawat 10mo ago
    Doesn't need it to justify unionizing. Unionizing is a right, and it was previously not exercised because there was no evidence of the will of the market to defraud or conspire against workers. It is now written plain for all to see that indeed, these types of arrangements are kept in board members back pockets. It is not their job to protect a companies interest in renumeration execs and shareholders. It is their job to get their share in spite of the management class's proven track records of the proclivity to engage in shenanigans and lies. The fact you can't understand solidarity is your problem, not theirs.
    - Manuel_D 10mo ago
      I'm not disputing that employees have right to try and form a union. I'm asking people who are insisting that Id employees are not free to accept competing offers to back up those claims with evidence.
      - salawat 10mo ago
        And I'm telling you that what you're asking for doesn't mean a lick. Someone already pissed in the pool. Once you know it's been done, you can't uncrack that egg. Plan on capabilities. Not "what you feel like they might draw the lines". Odds are, your feelings are in error, and they are capable of much worse. And if they're actually decent people, to everyone, all is good. If all they want is to juice the most out of the most gullible/naive, that's what the union is for. We cannot have nice things.
jimbokun 10mo ago
Corporations have been caught colluding to suppress wages by refusing to hire anyone working for one of the other companies. How many of these collusions have not been brought to light?
- mlrtime 10mo ago
  Aren't there laws already against that? It's happened before but is it common, do we have evidence that it is prevalent in Software Engineering?
- Manuel_D 10mo ago
  You're asking me to prove a negative. Bosses at other companies have been caught locking employees in factories and physically preventing them from leaving. Can I say for certain that this didn't happen at Id? No, but anyone making that claim ought to actually provide evidence that it happened at Id, not simple point to some other company that engaged in this behavior.

buellerbueller 10mo ago

WHat's keeping a company from providing fair wages, fair labor practices such that unions are unnecessary? EDIT: I guess you can just downvote, sure, but why not engage?

popalchemist 10mo ago
You are correct. Unions do not exist to exploit employers, they exist precisely to make working conditions acceptable (livable) and no more, most of the time. There are outliers, like Police unions, which have ulterior motives, but on the whole it is a labor movement meant to prevent the abhorrent conditions to which capitalism naturally backslides, which we saw after the industrial revolution.

Daishiman 10mo ago

> What's keeping any one of these Id software developers from accepting a competing job offer elsewhere? * Employer-bound health insurance in the US * Industry blacklists to exclude uppity employees and union members * Noncompetes and NDAs * Extremely localized jobs and an ever-shrinking number of larger and larger conglomerates as employers

Manuel_D 10mo ago
> Employer-bound health insurance in the US Benefits are part of an employees compensation package. A competing offer could have even better healthcare than Id. > Industry blacklists to exclude uppity employees and union members. This is illegal and the last time SV companies were found doing this the government punished them Is there any evidence that this is happening to Id employees? > Noncompetes Illegal in CA where ID is based. NDAs don't prevent you from working at competitors, only from taking confidential info. > Extremely localized jobs and an ever-shrinking number of larger and larger conglomerates as employers. Id is located in the Bay Area, probably the place with the greatest concentration of software jobs in the country if not the world.
- Daishiman 10mo ago
  > Benefits are part of an employees compensation package. A competing offer could have even better healthcare than Id. If a period of unemployment kicks you off an insurance program that's covering life-essential treatment for a loved one, there is no mechanism of "choosing freely" here; ex-employees don't have the option of covering health care themselves and there are no guarantees that the other employer's health care will cover existing treatments even if the coverage is better in theory. > This is illegal and the last time SV companies were found doing this the government punished them Every recruiter has spreadsheets of blacklisted employees, one of the reasons why companies frequently outsource staffing to outsides for plausible deniability. > Illegal in CA where ID is based. NDAs don't prevent you from working at competitors, only from taking confidential info. So illegal en CA but legal pretty much everywhere else, once again limiting you if you want to move because COL is too high in California and reducing the pool of real employment alternatives. > Id is located in the Bay Area, probably the place with the greatest concentration of software jobs in the country if not the world. Software jobs but not gaming jobs. California suffers from an artificial shortage of affordable housing due to insane tax laws and building restrictions. There's nothing free market about this.
  - Manuel_D 10mo ago
    Id employees can apply for jobs while remaining employed at Id. You're writing as though Id employees must first quit their jobs before seeking a new one. And even if they do have a period of unemployment between jobs, COBRA continues to cover them for up to a year. > Every recruiter has spreadsheets of blacklisted employees If you're going to allege illegal anti-poaching agreements, you ought to provide evidence of those claims. > So illegal en CA but legal pretty much everywhere else, once again limiting you if you want to move because COL is too high in California and reducing the pool of real employment alternatives. Actually, I just checked this and in 2024 the FTC banned non competes nationwide. > Software jobs but not gaming jobs. California suffers from an artificial shortage of affordable housing due to insane tax laws and building restrictions. There's nothing free market about this. And? Id software developers are free to work non-gaming software jobs. A big part of the reason why game dev jobs offer less renumeration is because people are passionate about games and are willing to take a pay cut to work in the industry. If an Id employee is not willing to work non-gaming software development jobs that's a restriction imposed by their own decisions, not by their employers. People in this thread are comparing Id software developers to slavery. The fact that they'll have to go on COBRA in between jobs doesn't make this comparison to slavery any less absurd.

linuxftw 10mo ago

Remember when the tech companies got caught making deals not to poach each other's employees? Maybe they can just start their own company. Well, you can't for the existing players to peer traffic with you if you need heavy network access.

Manuel_D 10mo ago
Do you have evidence that Id is being subject to some sort of no poach deal? Nobody doubts that employers can curb worker's ability to accept competing offers. The question is whether there's actually any evidence backing up the claim that Id employees aren't free to leave.
- salawat 10mo ago
  Doesn't need it to justify unionizing. Unionizing is a right, and it was previously not exercised because there was no evidence of the will of the market to defraud or conspire against workers. It is now written plain for all to see that indeed, these types of arrangements are kept in board members back pockets. It is not their job to protect a companies interest in renumeration execs and shareholders. It is their job to get their share in spite of the management class's proven track records of the proclivity to engage in shenanigans and lies. The fact you can't understand solidarity is your problem, not theirs.
  - Manuel_D 10mo ago
    I'm not disputing that employees have right to try and form a union. I'm asking people who are insisting that Id employees are not free to accept competing offers to back up those claims with evidence.
    - salawat 10mo ago
      And I'm telling you that what you're asking for doesn't mean a lick. Someone already pissed in the pool. Once you know it's been done, you can't uncrack that egg. Plan on capabilities. Not "what you feel like they might draw the lines". Odds are, your feelings are in error, and they are capable of much worse. And if they're actually decent people, to everyone, all is good. If all they want is to juice the most out of the most gullible/naive, that's what the union is for. We cannot have nice things.

jimbokun 10mo ago

Corporations have been caught colluding to suppress wages by refusing to hire anyone working for one of the other companies. How many of these collusions have not been brought to light?

mlrtime 10mo ago
Aren't there laws already against that? It's happened before but is it common, do we have evidence that it is prevalent in Software Engineering?
Manuel_D 10mo ago
You're asking me to prove a negative. Bosses at other companies have been caught locking employees in factories and physically preventing them from leaving. Can I say for certain that this didn't happen at Id? No, but anyone making that claim ought to actually provide evidence that it happened at Id, not simple point to some other company that engaged in this behavior.