11 ms·

Benn Jordan’s flock camera jammer will send you to jail in Florida now [video]

182 points by givemeethekeys 10mo ago

Noaidi 10mo ago
It is time to start asking ourselves, in all seriousness; "What would you do right now if you knew that fascists were coming." Because it is so obvious that they are coming.
- onetokeoverthe 10mo ago
  [dead]
- yfw 10mo ago
  Theyre already here and affecting some groups. Just ask how privileged you are before youre next on the list
  - PaulDavisThe1st 10mo ago
    "Fascism, like the future, is already here, it's just unevenly distributed".
    - metalman 10mo ago
      "Fascism, like the future, is already here, it's just unevenly distributed". SNAP!
  - Noaidi 10mo ago
    I agree, but I was trying not to be so "controversial" but I see that did not help. Someone already thinks all of this is fine and not authoritarian without providing me with an explanation. Forums will make fun of you for saying that Nazi's are here until they are surrounded by Nazis wondering what happened.
- honeycrispy 10mo ago
  Michigan recently introduced a "save the children" bill that would ban VPNs in an act titled "anticorruption of public morals". https://legislature.mi.gov/Bills/Bill?ObjectName=2025-HB-4938 https://legislature.mi.gov/Bills/Bill?ObjectName=2025-HB-493...
- metalcrow 10mo ago
  Buy a gun, and learn how to use it. This is good advice even if you don't believe it's necessary.
  - unethical_ban 10mo ago
    Find like minded people you can trust and know who will have whose back if something really goes wrong. Also have a passport and some cash, crypto and/or jewelry to get you out if this goes too far.
    - LgWoodenBadger 10mo ago
      As if passports can't be revoked electronically now
      - unethical_ban 10mo ago
        Sure, fine, don't have one then. Whatever.
  - rationalist 10mo ago
    Even if you don't like guns and don't want to own one, you should know how they work and how they are used properly. Kids used to be taught gun safety in public school. Public schools used to have indoor ranges (I've seen one with my own eyes). When someone learns gun safety, they are less likely to accidentally shoot themselves or someone else if they come across one.
    - 15155 10mo ago
      > Kids used to be taught gun safety in public school The problem is that this normalizes the behavior, something that a specific political sect (coincidentally overlapping heavily with those employed in education) desperately wants to avoid.
      - xboxnolifes 10mo ago
- willis936 10mo ago
  Make a bug out plan. Assume roads and cars are not an option. Assume you will be able to claim political asylum in another nation. Pack a bag.
  - ericmcer 10mo ago
    What nation? All the "democratic" western nations are moving in this direction.
    - willis936 10mo ago
      This is a survivalist exercise. You're not going to fix the world's problems while trying to avoid being put into a labor camp.
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - quesera 10mo ago
    > Assume roads and cars are not an option Walk to Canada? That works from some areas.
    - willis936 10mo ago
      Yes. Or Mexico. It's a longer walk for some more than others, but almost all of the political targets live near coastal cities that are within a month of a border. This would not be a trivial journey, but it would also not be insurmountable for many determined people. Survival ends up being a strong motivator.
      - quesera 10mo ago
        I think this is just an appealing fantasy. 80% of modern Americans would not survive and successfully complete a month-long walk of hundreds of miles. Add in the logistical challenges, necessary supplies, and secrecy ... and of course the possibility of harsh seasonal weather ... and I think we're talking about a 5% survival rate, at the absolute max. People might think they are more likely to be in that 5% than their neighbors, but I suspect most of the dangers are random or universal enough that this would not be true. Fortune favors the prepared, certainly. But that only gets you so far. There is no viable bug out strategy, after a certain point (and that point is far from today, and will likely never be reached). But there are midterm elections, and those are important.
- alistairSH 10mo ago
  Asked and answered. We, collectively, elected Trump a second time and left a GOP majority in Congress.
- phendrenad2 10mo ago
  Institutionalized racism. Police immune to prosecution. Government-backed monopolies. Oligarchy based on proximity to the supreme. Scapegoating various classes of people. False flags. Surveillance economy. Seems to me that whatever we have now is functionally indistinct from fascism. But if it makes you feel better to keep calling it democracy...
- Scubabear68 10mo ago
  Wherever Robert Heinlein is right now, he is shaking his head sadly. Told ya so......
gruez 10mo ago
1. I highly doubt the adversarial image generated by Jordan actually works in practice, especially since it needs to be fined tuned for a specific model, not to mention that different angles/noise will probably break it even more 2. Louis tries to defend whatever Ben's doing by saying that it's basically like random specks of mud or bird shit, but he doesn't seem to realize that intent is a thing. Having random specks on your license plate isn't going to send you to jail, but if it's obvious that you intentionally crafted the specks to defeat the ANPR, that's a whole different thing entirely, even if they vaguely look the same. 3. As much as I don't like ANPR networks or government surveillance, haven't courts consistently ruled that drivers have less rights (ie. "driving is a privilege, not a right")? For instance, the constitution guarantees free movement, but you need a drivers license to drive and police can ask for your license without probable cause. You also can't refuse a blood alcohol test while driving.
- Noaidi 10mo ago
  > but he doesn't seem to realize that intent is a thing. He does realize this. The problem is the police can make up intent just to mess with people. How easy is it fro the cops to say "You purposely splattered mud on you license plate" and fine you or put you in jail. Or even use it as an excuse to pull you over. > haven't courts consistently ruled that drivers have less rights This is not about the right to drive. This is about a database of collected data on you that can be searched by anyone. ANYONE.
  - try_the_bass 10mo ago
    > This is about a database of collected data on you that can be searched by anyone. ANYONE. Except this part isn't true?
    - Noaidi 10mo ago
      Anyone, by that I mean anyone that matters, or a very large group of people that you should be afraid of to have this power. I mean, excuse my hyperbole, but is this not enough? Like an ex boyfriend: https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article291059560.html https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article29105... Or the Feds: https://centralcurrent.org/federal-immigration-agents-accessed-syracuse-drivers-data-through-secret-flock-safety-deal/ https://centralcurrent.org/federal-immigration-agents-access... Or a cop anywhere: https://data.aclum.org/2025/10/07/flock-gives-law-enforcement-all-over-the-country-access-to-your-location/ https://data.aclum.org/2025/10/07/flock-gives-law-enforcemen... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/11/how-cops-are-using-flock-safetys-alpr-network-surveil-protesters-and-activists https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/11/how-cops-are-using-flo... https://atlpresscollective.com/2025/11/13/atlanta-police-flock-immigration-searches/ https://atlpresscollective.com/2025/11/13/atlanta-police-flo...
programmertote 10mo ago
I generally don't like the idea of relying on one private company to track private individual citizens' movement. So, I have an issue with this punishment (although I see that allowing that would also make it harder for automated toll charging systems to collect tolls). On a related note, when I lived in FL, I often saw cars with this opaque plastic cover on number plates. I think these are installed by the drivers so that they can avoid paying road toll (FL has many road tolls). I also noticed that these drivers tend to be more aggressive in driving than others (that's how I noticed their license plates are covered). Will the same punishment be applied to those drivers?
- try_the_bass 10mo ago
  > On a related note, when I lived in FL, I often saw cars with this opaque plastic cover on number plates. I think these are installed by the drivers so that they can avoid paying road toll (FL has many road tolls). I also noticed that these drivers tend to be more aggressive in driving than others (that's how I noticed their license plates are covered). I've noticed the same thing in my area of CA. Lots of folks with different devices to obscure their plates, and a strong correlation between the obscured plates and very poor or aggressive driving. I've started to quip that the obscured plates + tinted windows + blacked-out taillights is the "frequent moving violation starter kit". Or "tell me you violate the rules of the road without telling me you violate the rules of the road". > Will the same punishment be applied to those drivers? One could imagine that's actually the targeted demographic, and not the subset of folks trying to circumvent Flock cameras.
  - OptionOfT 10mo ago
    I see these plastic covers a lot. Especially here in AZ they get UV damaged fast which makes them opaque. And the more and more I want one. Not to drive like an ass. I don't. I just want to drive around without being tracked.
    - try_the_bass 10mo ago
      > Not to drive like an ass. I don't. Color me skeptical
opengrass 10mo ago
It's a payday for ride share companies.
greyface- 10mo ago
The time is ripe for ALPR-based sousveillance. If these types of countermeasures are outlawed, legislators and police could use a reminder that the legal principle that enables Flock imperils their privacy just as much as ours.
- Noaidi 10mo ago
  Flock does not just read license plates, it makes a fingerprint of your car. This is far beyond ALPR.
  - phil21 10mo ago
    What does this mean exactly? Pretty much any reasonably modern ALPR system also records make/model/type/color of vehicle along with the plate reading these days. Obviously some are better at this than others, but even my Unifi cameras do this these days. The “secret sauce” of Flock is the extensive nature of the camera network and database correlation.
    - nickthegreek 10mo ago
      Directly from the serpent's mouth: "No more gaps – just evidence. A license plate is just a start. Flock’s Vehicle Fingerprint® tech turns footage into evidence that solves cases by pinpointing vehicles by make, color, type, and unique characteristics like decals, bumper stickers, and accessories. This capability proved to be instrumental in a recent case in Catoosa, OK where police were able to track down the suspect connected to a mass murder after their vehicle was spotted by a Flock camera." https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/6-benefits-of-lpr-for-law-enforcement https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/6-benefits-of-lpr-for-law-e...
      - lisbbb 10mo ago
        So we need color changing cars and we need to make changes to stickers, wheels, and accessories more frequently. It will be like the characters in cyberpunk novels with the odd face paint and stickers that they can change so as to frustrate facial recognition.
websiteapi 10mo ago
Is this any surprise. Messing up other peoples stuff generally is a crime.
- gs17 10mo ago
  > Messing up other peoples stuff The "jammer" is an adversarial pattern applied to the plate. The cameras are undamaged by it.
  - websiteapi 10mo ago
    Not relevant. Does it stop legitimate use cases like toll roads which use the same underlying tech? Also, from the video the license plate is modified, which is illegal - it’s like modding your passport. As the video states…
Shalomboy 10mo ago
I would very much like to leave the "free state of Florida". All of the benefits of living here that I grew up knowing by heart no longer exist and the state government's only concern seems to be punishing people for wrongthink. It isn't cheap to lease or buy property anywhere near a metro area, the coral reefs and sponge beds have mostly disappeared, the beautiful wildlife in our state parks has been curtailed by constant wildfires, and the schools have atrophied to a shell of their former selves. What's the point of living here anymore, or raising my kids here?
- pengaru 10mo ago
  I hear Austin, TX is the bees knees definitely avoid CA
  - beepbooptheory 10mo ago
    Why leave Florida just to move to Texas?
    - mbg721 10mo ago
      Texas can be pricey, but it has huge and diverse growing urban areas with a lot of job opportunities, where someplace like Miami is really cutthroat and very expensive. Or you'd move if you like Mexican food more than Cuban and South American food.
  - wnevets 10mo ago
    > I hear Austin, TX is the bees knees Talk about a lateral move.
  - Shalomboy 10mo ago
    Austin is alluring, but I can't seem to get my foot in the door at any of the big chipmakers in town. Not to be snarky, but I already have enough problems with power outages during hurricane season - ERCOT doesn't inspire much more confidence.
- lisbbb 10mo ago
nullbyte808 10mo ago
Simple solution, ditch your car.
- munificent 10mo ago
  It's very hard to be a functioning member of society in Florida without a car. Public transit is minimal, everything is spread out, 8 months of the year are extremely hot, several months get monsoon rains.
- Shalomboy 10mo ago
  That's a non-starter if you want to maintain any sort of upward mobility in Florida.
LogicFailsMe 10mo ago
This would seem like a form of State AI regulation forcing you to submit to flock AI surveillance. I thought the dear leader was going to make any sort of regulation of AI illegal nationwide? Looking forward to the absurd lawsuit asserting exactly this. Especially when the boss move is just to retrain the network with a bunch of examples with the flock camera jammer applied. And if that's beyond the pythonic acumen of the employees of flock, that's their problem.
- frogperson 10mo ago
  This is fascism, the rules coudlnt be clearer. Enemies bad, friends good. You dont need laws or logic for that.
SamInTheShell 10mo ago
Seem to recall license plates are required to be illuminated as well. What's stopping someone from just adding an additional IR light to those enclosures? Couldn't you just slap an additional bright enough IR light in that makes it impossible to even see the plate clearly through cameras? Personally, if I cared enough to obfuscate my plate info from these devices, I would just taint their data by wrapping my car in a wrap with various different "plates" themed art. I like cars and the exterior has traditionally been treated like art. Tainting data is just as effective at making the core dataset useless as omitting data in the first place.
- snowfield 10mo ago
  Don't think that really works.think that's been debunked
  - SamInTheShell 10mo ago
    Which thing?
- BobaFloutist 10mo ago
  Surely the sensor would detect the IR separately from the visible light and could easily filter it out?
  - SamInTheShell 10mo ago
    Genuinely don’t know. The hack here is exploiting artifacts from over exposure for the camera sensor. As to if they have mitigating features to filter non visible light, I’m actually curious.
  - vorpalhex 10mo ago
    I doubt it, that is a lot of extra cost against an attack that doesn't exist today.
    - SamInTheShell 10mo ago
pedalpete 10mo ago
I find it interesting that the law states "affects the ability to record". The license plate can still be recorded. A human viewing the license plate recorded would still be able to visualize it. There is nothing shown in this video in the law that states that the license plate has to be legible to a computer or specifically an AI.
- pickledonions49 10mo ago
  It can be recorded, but the dots make it so some systems can't recognize it. I perceived "record" in the context of identification/logging.
tamimio 10mo ago
I thought it was supposed to be the golden age!? Instead we have technocratic elites who are after mass surveillance whether in forced digital ID or AI surveillance for cars and humans, and the worst part is if you try to protect your privacy you are a criminal now, like using VPNs or countering the AI. What's next, using cryptography is illegal and is considered terrorism? And public justification is ready; it's either "illegal immigrants" or "protecting the kids" depending on your political views.
- lisbbb 10mo ago
  I'm planning on dystopian cyberpunk, which is how we already live, tbh. There was never going to be a golden age because humans are not capable of such.
milesvp 10mo ago
BTW, if you don't know Benn Jordan, his YouTube content is fire. I happen to be in the intersection of things that he likes to think about, but every video I've seen of his lately deserves front page HN treatment. It is that good. This one was particularly good, given the technical difficulties of recording low frequency sounds. I can't vouch for his conclusions, but the effort he goes to to record these sounds is crazy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvr8L5v8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvr8L5v8u8
- butlike 10mo ago
  Indeed! His content is really good. Unfortunately, I can't find the video right now, but there's one of him recording natural reverb in a tunnel that was really good. A 20 mile bike ride in the dark makes the video very dream like and pleasant.
- wvbdmp 10mo ago
  He’s also The Flashbulb. Probably some other aliases, too, idk. But The Flashbulb is good shit.
  - godelski 10mo ago
    Acidwolf, Human Action Network, FlexE and his wiki lists some more and might want to check here[0]. I don't remember what website it was (it's probably redacted anyways, but I'm sure he does and others do now) but I remember him once getting joking that someone uploaded his album before he could. > The Flashbulb is good shit For those interested, he has a wide range so it can change dramatically between handles and even within albums. For example look at the difference between Lawn Wake I, If Trees Could Speak, and Lucid Base II on Red Extensions of Me. His earlier work tends to be more glitch. (Acidwolf is less glitch but still trippy) But then gets more melodic like in Arboreal and Opus at the End of Everything. I'm pretty sure I've heard Tomorrow Untrodden (from Aboreal) in a car commercial some years ago (was it Undiscovered Colors?). I'd recommend trying these. I doubt people will like all but I think these are all approachable and have good coverage. - Terra Firma, on Terra Firma - If Trees Could Speak, on Red Extensions - Passage D, on Kirlian Selections - Piano variant on Old Trees (Not on Spotify [1]) - Precipice, on Piety of Ashes - Undiscovered Colors, on Arboreal - Three Hundred CC, on Hardscrabble - Dishevel, on Krilian Selections - Coinage, is this even in an album?[2] Dude makes a fucking song out of dropping coins. - Or watch what he does with a fucking straw...[3] I've been listening to the guy for over a decade now and he keeps producing great stuff. I also suggest listening to full albums rather than on random. Side note: he isn't anti-AI. As a ML researcher myself I actually generally like his takes. Use AI to better us, not replace us, not further harm (like Flock), and to make it an extension of us rather than to offload. There's a fuck ton of cool stuff that ML/AI can do and I'm really not sure why we're so hyper-fixated on having it create slop. But hey, I don't get the fixation with human generated slop either. There's two paths we can go with this technology. Either we can use it to drive costs down and produce lower quality stuff quicker or we can use it to make higher quality stuff at the same rate (there's a spectrum of course). I'm already frustrated by the low and declining quality of things, maybe we shouldn't just strap a jet engine to the train already moving that direction... [0] https://www.discogs.com/artist/67855-The-Flashbulb https://www.discogs.com/artist/67855-The-Flashbulb [1] https://bennjordan.bandcamp.com/album/old-trees-1999-2011 https://bennjordan.bandcamp.com/album/old-trees-1999-2011 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyIu2-dSNyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyIu2-dSNyY [3] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZLPCGEbHoDI https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZLPCGEbHoDI
Aloisius 10mo ago
Intentionally modifying a license plate in order to prevent it from being read? The only thing I'm shocked about is that it hasn't wasn't illegal before.
- websiteapi 10mo ago
  Exactly. I have no idea anyone would be surprised that modifying your license plate so it cannot be read would be illegal.
- patrickmay 10mo ago
  The plate can still be easily read by a human, just not one of the Flock cameras.
  - websiteapi 10mo ago
    Or toll booths…
- givemeethekeys 10mo ago
  Intentionally modifying a license plate in order to prevent it from being read read by a very specific privately held company's cameras that then sells that info to whomever will pay.
ITniggah 10mo ago
[flagged]
pickledonions49 10mo ago
Wow now I am being stalked by AI algorithms instead of that twitchy psycho from work. Jokes aside I think this is an issue for the reason of hypocrisy (not that I want to track people) and usage of the technology.
lisbbb 10mo ago
Every time someone hits back in the name of individual rights and privacy, the same thing happens. The state (aka government) does not want us to be able to protect ourselves from its intrusions. The US has become a surveillance state, it's plain as day where it is heading. The weird thing is, we aren't prosecuting actual crimes when they are discovered. So one must assume that the surveillance is political in nature, much like what the USSR did or China currently engages in. It is for repression.
xnx 10mo ago
Better to link to Benn Jordan's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0gr7Fh6lY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0gr7Fh6lY

182 points by givemeethekeys 10mo ago

Noaidi 10mo ago

It is time to start asking ourselves, in all seriousness; "What would you do right now if you knew that fascists were coming." Because it is so obvious that they are coming.

onetokeoverthe 10mo ago
[dead]
yfw 10mo ago
Theyre already here and affecting some groups. Just ask how privileged you are before youre next on the list
- PaulDavisThe1st 10mo ago
  "Fascism, like the future, is already here, it's just unevenly distributed".
  - metalman 10mo ago
    "Fascism, like the future, is already here, it's just unevenly distributed". SNAP!
- Noaidi 10mo ago
  I agree, but I was trying not to be so "controversial" but I see that did not help. Someone already thinks all of this is fine and not authoritarian without providing me with an explanation. Forums will make fun of you for saying that Nazi's are here until they are surrounded by Nazis wondering what happened.
honeycrispy 10mo ago
Michigan recently introduced a "save the children" bill that would ban VPNs in an act titled "anticorruption of public morals". https://legislature.mi.gov/Bills/Bill?ObjectName=2025-HB-4938 https://legislature.mi.gov/Bills/Bill?ObjectName=2025-HB-493...
metalcrow 10mo ago
Buy a gun, and learn how to use it. This is good advice even if you don't believe it's necessary.
- unethical_ban 10mo ago
  Find like minded people you can trust and know who will have whose back if something really goes wrong. Also have a passport and some cash, crypto and/or jewelry to get you out if this goes too far.
  - LgWoodenBadger 10mo ago
    As if passports can't be revoked electronically now
    - unethical_ban 10mo ago
      Sure, fine, don't have one then. Whatever.
- rationalist 10mo ago
  Even if you don't like guns and don't want to own one, you should know how they work and how they are used properly. Kids used to be taught gun safety in public school. Public schools used to have indoor ranges (I've seen one with my own eyes). When someone learns gun safety, they are less likely to accidentally shoot themselves or someone else if they come across one.
  - 15155 10mo ago
    > Kids used to be taught gun safety in public school The problem is that this normalizes the behavior, something that a specific political sect (coincidentally overlapping heavily with those employed in education) desperately wants to avoid.
    - xboxnolifes 10mo ago
willis936 10mo ago
Make a bug out plan. Assume roads and cars are not an option. Assume you will be able to claim political asylum in another nation. Pack a bag.
- ericmcer 10mo ago
  What nation? All the "democratic" western nations are moving in this direction.
  - willis936 10mo ago
    This is a survivalist exercise. You're not going to fix the world's problems while trying to avoid being put into a labor camp.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- quesera 10mo ago
  > Assume roads and cars are not an option Walk to Canada? That works from some areas.
  - willis936 10mo ago
    Yes. Or Mexico. It's a longer walk for some more than others, but almost all of the political targets live near coastal cities that are within a month of a border. This would not be a trivial journey, but it would also not be insurmountable for many determined people. Survival ends up being a strong motivator.
    - quesera 10mo ago
      I think this is just an appealing fantasy. 80% of modern Americans would not survive and successfully complete a month-long walk of hundreds of miles. Add in the logistical challenges, necessary supplies, and secrecy ... and of course the possibility of harsh seasonal weather ... and I think we're talking about a 5% survival rate, at the absolute max. People might think they are more likely to be in that 5% than their neighbors, but I suspect most of the dangers are random or universal enough that this would not be true. Fortune favors the prepared, certainly. But that only gets you so far. There is no viable bug out strategy, after a certain point (and that point is far from today, and will likely never be reached). But there are midterm elections, and those are important.
alistairSH 10mo ago
Asked and answered. We, collectively, elected Trump a second time and left a GOP majority in Congress.
phendrenad2 10mo ago
Institutionalized racism. Police immune to prosecution. Government-backed monopolies. Oligarchy based on proximity to the supreme. Scapegoating various classes of people. False flags. Surveillance economy. Seems to me that whatever we have now is functionally indistinct from fascism. But if it makes you feel better to keep calling it democracy...
Scubabear68 10mo ago
Wherever Robert Heinlein is right now, he is shaking his head sadly. Told ya so......

gruez 10mo ago

1. I highly doubt the adversarial image generated by Jordan actually works in practice, especially since it needs to be fined tuned for a specific model, not to mention that different angles/noise will probably break it even more 2. Louis tries to defend whatever Ben's doing by saying that it's basically like random specks of mud or bird shit, but he doesn't seem to realize that intent is a thing. Having random specks on your license plate isn't going to send you to jail, but if it's obvious that you intentionally crafted the specks to defeat the ANPR, that's a whole different thing entirely, even if they vaguely look the same. 3. As much as I don't like ANPR networks or government surveillance, haven't courts consistently ruled that drivers have less rights (ie. "driving is a privilege, not a right")? For instance, the constitution guarantees free movement, but you need a drivers license to drive and police can ask for your license without probable cause. You also can't refuse a blood alcohol test while driving.

Noaidi 10mo ago
> but he doesn't seem to realize that intent is a thing. He does realize this. The problem is the police can make up intent just to mess with people. How easy is it fro the cops to say "You purposely splattered mud on you license plate" and fine you or put you in jail. Or even use it as an excuse to pull you over. > haven't courts consistently ruled that drivers have less rights This is not about the right to drive. This is about a database of collected data on you that can be searched by anyone. ANYONE.
- try_the_bass 10mo ago
  > This is about a database of collected data on you that can be searched by anyone. ANYONE. Except this part isn't true?
  - Noaidi 10mo ago
    Anyone, by that I mean anyone that matters, or a very large group of people that you should be afraid of to have this power. I mean, excuse my hyperbole, but is this not enough? Like an ex boyfriend: https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article291059560.html https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article29105... Or the Feds: https://centralcurrent.org/federal-immigration-agents-accessed-syracuse-drivers-data-through-secret-flock-safety-deal/ https://centralcurrent.org/federal-immigration-agents-access... Or a cop anywhere: https://data.aclum.org/2025/10/07/flock-gives-law-enforcement-all-over-the-country-access-to-your-location/ https://data.aclum.org/2025/10/07/flock-gives-law-enforcemen... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/11/how-cops-are-using-flock-safetys-alpr-network-surveil-protesters-and-activists https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/11/how-cops-are-using-flo... https://atlpresscollective.com/2025/11/13/atlanta-police-flock-immigration-searches/ https://atlpresscollective.com/2025/11/13/atlanta-police-flo...

programmertote 10mo ago

I generally don't like the idea of relying on one private company to track private individual citizens' movement. So, I have an issue with this punishment (although I see that allowing that would also make it harder for automated toll charging systems to collect tolls). On a related note, when I lived in FL, I often saw cars with this opaque plastic cover on number plates. I think these are installed by the drivers so that they can avoid paying road toll (FL has many road tolls). I also noticed that these drivers tend to be more aggressive in driving than others (that's how I noticed their license plates are covered). Will the same punishment be applied to those drivers?

try_the_bass 10mo ago
> On a related note, when I lived in FL, I often saw cars with this opaque plastic cover on number plates. I think these are installed by the drivers so that they can avoid paying road toll (FL has many road tolls). I also noticed that these drivers tend to be more aggressive in driving than others (that's how I noticed their license plates are covered). I've noticed the same thing in my area of CA. Lots of folks with different devices to obscure their plates, and a strong correlation between the obscured plates and very poor or aggressive driving. I've started to quip that the obscured plates + tinted windows + blacked-out taillights is the "frequent moving violation starter kit". Or "tell me you violate the rules of the road without telling me you violate the rules of the road". > Will the same punishment be applied to those drivers? One could imagine that's actually the targeted demographic, and not the subset of folks trying to circumvent Flock cameras.
- OptionOfT 10mo ago
  I see these plastic covers a lot. Especially here in AZ they get UV damaged fast which makes them opaque. And the more and more I want one. Not to drive like an ass. I don't. I just want to drive around without being tracked.
  - try_the_bass 10mo ago
    > Not to drive like an ass. I don't. Color me skeptical

opengrass 10mo ago

It's a payday for ride share companies.

greyface- 10mo ago

The time is ripe for ALPR-based sousveillance. If these types of countermeasures are outlawed, legislators and police could use a reminder that the legal principle that enables Flock imperils their privacy just as much as ours.

Noaidi 10mo ago
Flock does not just read license plates, it makes a fingerprint of your car. This is far beyond ALPR.
- phil21 10mo ago
  What does this mean exactly? Pretty much any reasonably modern ALPR system also records make/model/type/color of vehicle along with the plate reading these days. Obviously some are better at this than others, but even my Unifi cameras do this these days. The “secret sauce” of Flock is the extensive nature of the camera network and database correlation.
  - nickthegreek 10mo ago
    Directly from the serpent's mouth: "No more gaps – just evidence. A license plate is just a start. Flock’s Vehicle Fingerprint® tech turns footage into evidence that solves cases by pinpointing vehicles by make, color, type, and unique characteristics like decals, bumper stickers, and accessories. This capability proved to be instrumental in a recent case in Catoosa, OK where police were able to track down the suspect connected to a mass murder after their vehicle was spotted by a Flock camera." https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/6-benefits-of-lpr-for-law-enforcement https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/6-benefits-of-lpr-for-law-e...
    - lisbbb 10mo ago
      So we need color changing cars and we need to make changes to stickers, wheels, and accessories more frequently. It will be like the characters in cyberpunk novels with the odd face paint and stickers that they can change so as to frustrate facial recognition.

websiteapi 10mo ago

Is this any surprise. Messing up other peoples stuff generally is a crime.

gs17 10mo ago
> Messing up other peoples stuff The "jammer" is an adversarial pattern applied to the plate. The cameras are undamaged by it.
- websiteapi 10mo ago
  Not relevant. Does it stop legitimate use cases like toll roads which use the same underlying tech? Also, from the video the license plate is modified, which is illegal - it’s like modding your passport. As the video states…

Shalomboy 10mo ago

I would very much like to leave the "free state of Florida". All of the benefits of living here that I grew up knowing by heart no longer exist and the state government's only concern seems to be punishing people for wrongthink. It isn't cheap to lease or buy property anywhere near a metro area, the coral reefs and sponge beds have mostly disappeared, the beautiful wildlife in our state parks has been curtailed by constant wildfires, and the schools have atrophied to a shell of their former selves. What's the point of living here anymore, or raising my kids here?

pengaru 10mo ago
I hear Austin, TX is the bees knees definitely avoid CA
- beepbooptheory 10mo ago
  Why leave Florida just to move to Texas?
  - mbg721 10mo ago
    Texas can be pricey, but it has huge and diverse growing urban areas with a lot of job opportunities, where someplace like Miami is really cutthroat and very expensive. Or you'd move if you like Mexican food more than Cuban and South American food.
- wnevets 10mo ago
  > I hear Austin, TX is the bees knees Talk about a lateral move.
- Shalomboy 10mo ago
  Austin is alluring, but I can't seem to get my foot in the door at any of the big chipmakers in town. Not to be snarky, but I already have enough problems with power outages during hurricane season - ERCOT doesn't inspire much more confidence.
lisbbb 10mo ago

nullbyte808 10mo ago

Simple solution, ditch your car.

munificent 10mo ago
It's very hard to be a functioning member of society in Florida without a car. Public transit is minimal, everything is spread out, 8 months of the year are extremely hot, several months get monsoon rains.
Shalomboy 10mo ago
That's a non-starter if you want to maintain any sort of upward mobility in Florida.

LogicFailsMe 10mo ago

This would seem like a form of State AI regulation forcing you to submit to flock AI surveillance. I thought the dear leader was going to make any sort of regulation of AI illegal nationwide? Looking forward to the absurd lawsuit asserting exactly this. Especially when the boss move is just to retrain the network with a bunch of examples with the flock camera jammer applied. And if that's beyond the pythonic acumen of the employees of flock, that's their problem.

frogperson 10mo ago
This is fascism, the rules coudlnt be clearer. Enemies bad, friends good. You dont need laws or logic for that.

SamInTheShell 10mo ago

Seem to recall license plates are required to be illuminated as well. What's stopping someone from just adding an additional IR light to those enclosures? Couldn't you just slap an additional bright enough IR light in that makes it impossible to even see the plate clearly through cameras? Personally, if I cared enough to obfuscate my plate info from these devices, I would just taint their data by wrapping my car in a wrap with various different "plates" themed art. I like cars and the exterior has traditionally been treated like art. Tainting data is just as effective at making the core dataset useless as omitting data in the first place.

snowfield 10mo ago
Don't think that really works.think that's been debunked
- SamInTheShell 10mo ago
  Which thing?
BobaFloutist 10mo ago
Surely the sensor would detect the IR separately from the visible light and could easily filter it out?
- SamInTheShell 10mo ago
  Genuinely don’t know. The hack here is exploiting artifacts from over exposure for the camera sensor. As to if they have mitigating features to filter non visible light, I’m actually curious.
- vorpalhex 10mo ago
  I doubt it, that is a lot of extra cost against an attack that doesn't exist today.
  - SamInTheShell 10mo ago

pedalpete 10mo ago

I find it interesting that the law states "affects the ability to record". The license plate can still be recorded. A human viewing the license plate recorded would still be able to visualize it. There is nothing shown in this video in the law that states that the license plate has to be legible to a computer or specifically an AI.

pickledonions49 10mo ago
It can be recorded, but the dots make it so some systems can't recognize it. I perceived "record" in the context of identification/logging.

tamimio 10mo ago

I thought it was supposed to be the golden age!? Instead we have technocratic elites who are after mass surveillance whether in forced digital ID or AI surveillance for cars and humans, and the worst part is if you try to protect your privacy you are a criminal now, like using VPNs or countering the AI. What's next, using cryptography is illegal and is considered terrorism? And public justification is ready; it's either "illegal immigrants" or "protecting the kids" depending on your political views.

lisbbb 10mo ago
I'm planning on dystopian cyberpunk, which is how we already live, tbh. There was never going to be a golden age because humans are not capable of such.

milesvp 10mo ago

BTW, if you don't know Benn Jordan, his YouTube content is fire. I happen to be in the intersection of things that he likes to think about, but every video I've seen of his lately deserves front page HN treatment. It is that good. This one was particularly good, given the technical difficulties of recording low frequency sounds. I can't vouch for his conclusions, but the effort he goes to to record these sounds is crazy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvr8L5v8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvr8L5v8u8

butlike 10mo ago
Indeed! His content is really good. Unfortunately, I can't find the video right now, but there's one of him recording natural reverb in a tunnel that was really good. A 20 mile bike ride in the dark makes the video very dream like and pleasant.
wvbdmp 10mo ago
He’s also The Flashbulb. Probably some other aliases, too, idk. But The Flashbulb is good shit.
- godelski 10mo ago
  Acidwolf, Human Action Network, FlexE and his wiki lists some more and might want to check here[0]. I don't remember what website it was (it's probably redacted anyways, but I'm sure he does and others do now) but I remember him once getting joking that someone uploaded his album before he could. > The Flashbulb is good shit For those interested, he has a wide range so it can change dramatically between handles and even within albums. For example look at the difference between Lawn Wake I, If Trees Could Speak, and Lucid Base II on Red Extensions of Me. His earlier work tends to be more glitch. (Acidwolf is less glitch but still trippy) But then gets more melodic like in Arboreal and Opus at the End of Everything. I'm pretty sure I've heard Tomorrow Untrodden (from Aboreal) in a car commercial some years ago (was it Undiscovered Colors?). I'd recommend trying these. I doubt people will like all but I think these are all approachable and have good coverage. - Terra Firma, on Terra Firma - If Trees Could Speak, on Red Extensions - Passage D, on Kirlian Selections - Piano variant on Old Trees (Not on Spotify [1]) - Precipice, on Piety of Ashes - Undiscovered Colors, on Arboreal - Three Hundred CC, on Hardscrabble - Dishevel, on Krilian Selections - Coinage, is this even in an album?[2] Dude makes a fucking song out of dropping coins. - Or watch what he does with a fucking straw...[3] I've been listening to the guy for over a decade now and he keeps producing great stuff. I also suggest listening to full albums rather than on random. Side note: he isn't anti-AI. As a ML researcher myself I actually generally like his takes. Use AI to better us, not replace us, not further harm (like Flock), and to make it an extension of us rather than to offload. There's a fuck ton of cool stuff that ML/AI can do and I'm really not sure why we're so hyper-fixated on having it create slop. But hey, I don't get the fixation with human generated slop either. There's two paths we can go with this technology. Either we can use it to drive costs down and produce lower quality stuff quicker or we can use it to make higher quality stuff at the same rate (there's a spectrum of course). I'm already frustrated by the low and declining quality of things, maybe we shouldn't just strap a jet engine to the train already moving that direction... [0] https://www.discogs.com/artist/67855-The-Flashbulb https://www.discogs.com/artist/67855-The-Flashbulb [1] https://bennjordan.bandcamp.com/album/old-trees-1999-2011 https://bennjordan.bandcamp.com/album/old-trees-1999-2011 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyIu2-dSNyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyIu2-dSNyY [3] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZLPCGEbHoDI https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZLPCGEbHoDI

Aloisius 10mo ago

Intentionally modifying a license plate in order to prevent it from being read? The only thing I'm shocked about is that it hasn't wasn't illegal before.

websiteapi 10mo ago
Exactly. I have no idea anyone would be surprised that modifying your license plate so it cannot be read would be illegal.
patrickmay 10mo ago
The plate can still be easily read by a human, just not one of the Flock cameras.
- websiteapi 10mo ago
  Or toll booths…
givemeethekeys 10mo ago
Intentionally modifying a license plate in order to prevent it from being read read by a very specific privately held company's cameras that then sells that info to whomever will pay.

ITniggah 10mo ago

[flagged]

pickledonions49 10mo ago

Wow now I am being stalked by AI algorithms instead of that twitchy psycho from work. Jokes aside I think this is an issue for the reason of hypocrisy (not that I want to track people) and usage of the technology.

lisbbb 10mo ago

Every time someone hits back in the name of individual rights and privacy, the same thing happens. The state (aka government) does not want us to be able to protect ourselves from its intrusions. The US has become a surveillance state, it's plain as day where it is heading. The weird thing is, we aren't prosecuting actual crimes when they are discovered. So one must assume that the surveillance is political in nature, much like what the USSR did or China currently engages in. It is for repression.

xnx 10mo ago

Better to link to Benn Jordan's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0gr7Fh6lY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0gr7Fh6lY