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You know, back in the day, teachers used to try and convey the "why" behind things like writing essays and reading books. Spark notes existed, but a good teache

You know, back in the day, teachers used to try and convey the "why" behind things like writing essays and reading books. Spark notes existed, but a good teacher could convey, hey, there is a reason we are doing this thing, it is because it has value outside the note that says you completed the task itself.

ares623 11mo ago
Back in the day when teachers’ salary can support a family I bet
- altcognito 11mo ago
  Teachers salaries were never super amazing. Experienced teachers probably could, but it did take a good 10-15 years to get there.
chii 11mo ago
> back in the day... teachers still do this today. It's just that kids are less disciplined, and more prone to attention deficits. Not to mention that punishment for failure has been dulled down to almost non-existent. "No child left behind" had noble intentions, but the way it was implemented leaves much to be desired. To me, the fix is to cure the lack of consequences in the outcome of cheating. If you're allowed to cheat in an exam (or not enforced), then obviously it's seen as an encouragement to cheat. Bring back in-person, closed room, no calculator/phone exams, and these score determines your grade(s), rather than the teachers from the school.
- BobbyJo 11mo ago
  > It's just that kids are less disciplined, and more prone to attention deficits. I think this puts the blame too much on the kids. Its not their fault we've created a world where they are surrounded by dopamine treadmills. I know you go on to say that we need to change their environment to solve the problem, and I wholeheartedly agree. I just wanted to point out that kids today are the victims in all this mess.
  - chii 11mo ago
    > puts the blame too much on the kids. kinda, but i would say it's more a blame on the parents. They need to be able to control, and discipline their kids - ala, raising them properly.
    - BobbyJo 11mo ago
      I have a hard time blaming parents as well to be honest. Think about it this way, if you truly believe parents are disciplining children less, and doing a worse job of controlling their kids on average, why is that? Is it because people just "aren't as good" now? Obviously not. I think the same environmental factors are at play on the parent's side as on the children's. We can throw our hands up and say "they should know better", but the fact remains that the incentives in our society are changing things for the worse.
spamizbad 11mo ago
They still do this. The difference is, in my experience, is that parents are totally cool with their kids cheating. I've overheard parents openly mention it at line-up at school. Hate to say "back in my day" but even as a millennial raised by laid-back parents I'd have been in deep shit if I cheated.
ndsipa_pomu 11mo ago
I think it's important to distinguish between actual learning (e.g. the "why") and learning to repeat magic words. A lot of school level tests involve prompting the student to repeat a magic word at the right time (e.g. "condensation") rather than actually understanding the underlying process.

ares623 11mo ago

Back in the day when teachers’ salary can support a family I bet

altcognito 11mo ago
Teachers salaries were never super amazing. Experienced teachers probably could, but it did take a good 10-15 years to get there.

chii 11mo ago

> back in the day... teachers still do this today. It's just that kids are less disciplined, and more prone to attention deficits. Not to mention that punishment for failure has been dulled down to almost non-existent. "No child left behind" had noble intentions, but the way it was implemented leaves much to be desired. To me, the fix is to cure the lack of consequences in the outcome of cheating. If you're allowed to cheat in an exam (or not enforced), then obviously it's seen as an encouragement to cheat. Bring back in-person, closed room, no calculator/phone exams, and these score determines your grade(s), rather than the teachers from the school.

BobbyJo 11mo ago
> It's just that kids are less disciplined, and more prone to attention deficits. I think this puts the blame too much on the kids. Its not their fault we've created a world where they are surrounded by dopamine treadmills. I know you go on to say that we need to change their environment to solve the problem, and I wholeheartedly agree. I just wanted to point out that kids today are the victims in all this mess.
- chii 11mo ago
  > puts the blame too much on the kids. kinda, but i would say it's more a blame on the parents. They need to be able to control, and discipline their kids - ala, raising them properly.
  - BobbyJo 11mo ago
    I have a hard time blaming parents as well to be honest. Think about it this way, if you truly believe parents are disciplining children less, and doing a worse job of controlling their kids on average, why is that? Is it because people just "aren't as good" now? Obviously not. I think the same environmental factors are at play on the parent's side as on the children's. We can throw our hands up and say "they should know better", but the fact remains that the incentives in our society are changing things for the worse.

spamizbad 11mo ago

They still do this. The difference is, in my experience, is that parents are totally cool with their kids cheating. I've overheard parents openly mention it at line-up at school. Hate to say "back in my day" but even as a millennial raised by laid-back parents I'd have been in deep shit if I cheated.

ndsipa_pomu 11mo ago

I think it's important to distinguish between actual learning (e.g. the "why") and learning to repeat magic words. A lot of school level tests involve prompting the student to repeat a magic word at the right time (e.g. "condensation") rather than actually understanding the underlying process.