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The gut reaction of too many geeks is "I can't believe you'd install a smart fridge in your home". But we need to think about this differently. Imagine if vehic

The gut reaction of too many geeks is "I can't believe you'd install a smart fridge in your home". But we need to think about this differently. Imagine if vehicles had no mandatory safety checks. How many people know anything about car safety? You'd get people barrelling down the highway with broken suspension, bald tyres or worse. We are the professionals. It's our responsibility to keep the public safe and stop shit like this happening. The software engineers who implemented this at Samsung should be struck off. Well, we could start by having something to be struck off from. I'm done with assuming individual developers will be scrupulous. We need real consequences to come from higher up. It's way past the point that this is fucking with people's lives.

duskdozer 11mo ago
It also falls apart over when more and more products become "smart" to the point where you can't really even buy one without things like this, like TVs now or cars for that matter. I'm dreading the day where I end up forced to watch an ad before starting my car. I do think some kind of ethics training/education/licensing/organization is long overdue for software devs.
ErroneousBosh 11mo ago
> You'd get people barrelling down the highway with broken suspension, bald tyres or worse. You have this in most of the US, and people rail against any attempt to bring it in because they're frightened that garages will not give them their cars back if they think it's got something wrong with it. I've seen people driving cars in the US that you wouldn't even be able to get a scrapyard to take in the UK, they'd tell you to just sweep it into a bag and put it in the recycling.
chickensong 11mo ago
Real consequences from higher up... for ads on a fridge? Corporate execs only care about money. Engineers aren't going to get themselves fired every time someone asks for a feature they don't agree with. Government? We don't need more nanny laws. What we need is for people to think for themselves. The powers that be aren't going to save you from all the bad things. Call out the bad things to educate people, and vote with your wallet.
- fzeroracer 11mo ago
  There's a whole growing class of people that do not have the ability to vote with their wallet. Fridges, TVs etc will all be at their cheapest because they're subsidized by ads. Or worse, if you're a renter then there's a big incentive for apartments to put up smart fridges in every room both as a selling point and for ad revenue. How would you propose to deal with apartments having every fridge be a smart one?
  - chickensong 11mo ago
    I'll admit, I hadn't thought of subsidized fridges. What a bleak and depressing idea! I suppose I'd just tape over the screen or "accidentally" break it and complain to my landlord.
- globular-toast 11mo ago
  > What we need is for people to think for themselves. I hope you never go see a doctor or take your car to a garage. Just think for yourself, bro.
  - chickensong 11mo ago
    Not discounting mental health effects of advertising assault, but both of those things can have direct life-threatening impact, so I'm not sure they're a valid comparison to choosing a refrigerator. You don't even need certification to be an auto-mechanic in my country. That said, the previous response about subsidized refrigerators forced me to reconsider the issue as a purchasing choice. I still don't think it's realistic to expect the software engineers implementing questionable features to refuse to do so, or be punished for following orders. Sure some might choose to quit and work elsewhere, but their seat will be filled by someone else. If it's not a consumer choice issue, in a future where most refrigerators are subsidized by ads, I could see a case for regulation, but my hopes are low tbh. We already have ads everywhere, so why would an appliance like a fridge or washing machine get special treatment? Personally I'd love a world where there's no ads except in dedicated opt-in places, both physical and digital. I have zero faith I'll ever see that. How do you propose we stop our impending doom? Where are your proposed consequences coming from? I think this is an interesting social issue, I'm open to having my mind changed, and I'm trying to have a real discussion, but if you've just got more snide "bro" comments, we can leave it here.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
SpecialistK 11mo ago
It's the smug superiority too many "tech smart" people have. "Why would you buy HP? Everyone knows that it stands for Horrible Product." "Serves you right for getting a TV with built in Netflix, everyone knows that it's a backdoor to botnet!" I don't think it's apologetics for dogpoop corporate behavior, directly. But it has that effect because those of us with knowledge enjoy being smart asses or belittling those whose ignorance rewards trends we disagree with. People should be able to go into a store and buy a thing without researching how evil it has become in the decade or two since the last time they did. Or move into a house pre-furnished. That is a failure of legislatures, not of average Joe.

duskdozer 11mo ago

It also falls apart over when more and more products become "smart" to the point where you can't really even buy one without things like this, like TVs now or cars for that matter. I'm dreading the day where I end up forced to watch an ad before starting my car. I do think some kind of ethics training/education/licensing/organization is long overdue for software devs.

ErroneousBosh 11mo ago

> You'd get people barrelling down the highway with broken suspension, bald tyres or worse. You have this in most of the US, and people rail against any attempt to bring it in because they're frightened that garages will not give them their cars back if they think it's got something wrong with it. I've seen people driving cars in the US that you wouldn't even be able to get a scrapyard to take in the UK, they'd tell you to just sweep it into a bag and put it in the recycling.

chickensong 11mo ago

Real consequences from higher up... for ads on a fridge? Corporate execs only care about money. Engineers aren't going to get themselves fired every time someone asks for a feature they don't agree with. Government? We don't need more nanny laws. What we need is for people to think for themselves. The powers that be aren't going to save you from all the bad things. Call out the bad things to educate people, and vote with your wallet.

fzeroracer 11mo ago
There's a whole growing class of people that do not have the ability to vote with their wallet. Fridges, TVs etc will all be at their cheapest because they're subsidized by ads. Or worse, if you're a renter then there's a big incentive for apartments to put up smart fridges in every room both as a selling point and for ad revenue. How would you propose to deal with apartments having every fridge be a smart one?
- chickensong 11mo ago
  I'll admit, I hadn't thought of subsidized fridges. What a bleak and depressing idea! I suppose I'd just tape over the screen or "accidentally" break it and complain to my landlord.
globular-toast 11mo ago
> What we need is for people to think for themselves. I hope you never go see a doctor or take your car to a garage. Just think for yourself, bro.
- chickensong 11mo ago
  Not discounting mental health effects of advertising assault, but both of those things can have direct life-threatening impact, so I'm not sure they're a valid comparison to choosing a refrigerator. You don't even need certification to be an auto-mechanic in my country. That said, the previous response about subsidized refrigerators forced me to reconsider the issue as a purchasing choice. I still don't think it's realistic to expect the software engineers implementing questionable features to refuse to do so, or be punished for following orders. Sure some might choose to quit and work elsewhere, but their seat will be filled by someone else. If it's not a consumer choice issue, in a future where most refrigerators are subsidized by ads, I could see a case for regulation, but my hopes are low tbh. We already have ads everywhere, so why would an appliance like a fridge or washing machine get special treatment? Personally I'd love a world where there's no ads except in dedicated opt-in places, both physical and digital. I have zero faith I'll ever see that. How do you propose we stop our impending doom? Where are your proposed consequences coming from? I think this is an interesting social issue, I'm open to having my mind changed, and I'm trying to have a real discussion, but if you've just got more snide "bro" comments, we can leave it here.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

SpecialistK 11mo ago

It's the smug superiority too many "tech smart" people have. "Why would you buy HP? Everyone knows that it stands for Horrible Product." "Serves you right for getting a TV with built in Netflix, everyone knows that it's a backdoor to botnet!" I don't think it's apologetics for dogpoop corporate behavior, directly. But it has that effect because those of us with knowledge enjoy being smart asses or belittling those whose ignorance rewards trends we disagree with. People should be able to go into a store and buy a thing without researching how evil it has become in the decade or two since the last time they did. Or move into a house pre-furnished. That is a failure of legislatures, not of average Joe.