9 ms·

Jolla Phone Pre-Order

• alex_duf 10mo ago
  wow, I never expected to see them come back
• ttkari 10mo ago
  Hardware specs look pretty nice, SailfishOS should work nicely on this device. The design language remains faithful to the original Jolla Phone from more than a decade ago. :)
  • fumblertzu 10mo ago
    I love myself a good phone were I can tinker with the os like with my computers :)
• onli 10mo ago
  Awesome, this has a user replaceable battery! Sadly I do see no headphone jack, so not an option for me. Did I miss it on the pictures?
  • ttkari 10mo ago
    Although the SFOS community did express some interest in the 3.5 mm jack in the polls earlier, there's no headphone jack. The expected device sales volume probably would not cover the added engineering cost from such modifications to the mainboard reference design at the announced price point.
  • sir_eliah 10mo ago
    Some time ago I also thought that no 3.5mm jack is a deal-breaker, but I bought super cheap jack-usbc adapter that is 5cm long and it works pretty well.
    • EvanAnderson 10mo ago
      I haven't tried a USB-C to 3.55mm adapter but your experience heartens me. Headphone jack has been a hard line for me. Having recently moved into the world of wireless charging (I keep a phone 5-7 years and just missed wireless charging being normalized on my last phone purchase back in 2020) I think using the USB port for headphone is finally visible. I spend a lot of the day with my headphones on and the phone on the wireless charging puck. Not being forced to choose between charging and headphones changes the equation.
    • komali2 10mo ago
      Correct me if I'm wrong but those cables must include a DAC to function properly and so usually have a tiny kinda crappy one in them, right? In this post headphone jack world I use a fiio Bluetooth/USB DAC that's really good quality. But it's about the size of two ipod nanos stacked on top of each other.
      • JoshTriplett 10mo ago
        > Correct me if I'm wrong but those cables must include a DAC to function properly and so usually have a tiny kinda crappy one in them, right? Not necessarily. If the device is using audio over alt-mode, it can use its own DAC.
      • ThePowerOfFuet 10mo ago
        >those cables must include a DAC to function properly and so usually have a tiny kinda crappy one in them, right? FWIW, audiophiles were very impressed with the measured performance of the €10 Apple USB-C to 3.5mm adapter and its DAC. The Google one is likely good too.
• tetris11 10mo ago
  Add a keyboard, and you would have piqued my interest. I dont understand how ex-Nokia devs could have built a phone like the N900 and then just walked away from it for 15 years
  • onli 10mo ago
    But destroyed the interest of many others ;) Keyboard phones are a great thing, but not as the sole option for a company. As a second current model, sure.
  • rafram 10mo ago
    Most people aren't willing to sacrifice half their screen real estate 100% of the time, or deal with a significantly thicker phone, just to get a physical keyboard. The market for that is very small.
    • d3Xt3r 10mo ago
      The market is small, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a significant overlap between those who want a keyboard and the target audience of the Jolla phone. Don't forget that SailfishOS is ultimately Linux (and not like Android) - it even comes with the zypper package manager that lets you install apps and update the OS using the terminal. Part of the fun of using SailfishOS is doing familiar Linux systems managements and general operations the terminal, which any Linux nerd would love. And Linux nerds make up a huge userbase of this OS. I mean, look at the link OP pasted, they're straight up calling it a "Linux phone", it's clear who their audience is. And don't tell me majority of Linux users would NOT prefer to have a keyboard.
      • Telaneo 10mo ago
        They're probably not interested in the Linux power user. They're interested in making their phone viable for everyone else, since that's a much bigger market, and for that customer base, a keyboard is very much going to be a negative and not a positive. The Linux part of their Linux phone also has the same problem, but they apparently have faith in that part.
• mongol 10mo ago
  What is Jolla now? I remember it as startup created by previous Nokia employees that tried to build a Nokia-type of phone based on Maemo? Or do I remember it wrong?
  • mpol 10mo ago
    In 2013 they released the Jolla 1, a phone with custom hardware and Linux software. In 2015 they tried again with a tablet, but it failed on the side of hardware production and the company became insolvent. In 2017 there came investors, among others ROS Telecom, a Russion telecom provider. They pivoted to only providing software, mainly on Sony phones. That is still ongoing. Since the Russia - Ukraine war the Russion investors went MIA. The Finnish people from Jolla started a new company and had all assets moved to that company. They are now trying to rebuild the company and apparently extend into hardware again, even though the PCB design is off the shelf. I have been a user since 2014 and am quite happy with their offering. It offers ssh root access if you want. Optionally manually installing software. Very much a GNU/Linux experience. Privacy focused and user oriented. And now slowly but surely there are parts of the software being opensourced.
  • d3Xt3r 10mo ago
    No, you're right. SailfishOS inherits the core of the OS from the old Maemo of Nokia N900 fame (though the UI was built from scratch I believe). I tried it back in the day on my Nexus 4 and it was buttery smooth, even with all its fancy animations and gesture-based navigation, which was way ahead of Android at the time. I always thought SailfishOS would really take off by now, given how advanced and polished it already was at the time, but Jolla's mismanagement nearly jeopardised the whole thing (they filed for bankruptcy last year).
    • m4rtink 10mo ago
      They filled for bankruptcy again last year (first was the Tablet debacle in I think 2015) but have since managed to survive it again, so all is well. :)
    • colinstrickland 10mo ago
• parasitid 10mo ago
  it's based on a proprietary os, which includes halium proprietary blobs. imho, linux users should focus on phones well supported by postmarketos
  • ux266478 10mo ago
    All phones end up reliant on proprietary blobs. Not that I disagree in principle, but we have to be realistic. Hardware manufacturers, telcoms and to some degree regulators all do not like user freedom with regards to phones.
    • zb3 10mo ago
      But AOSP is open source while Sailfish OS is not. Also "proprietary blobs" != "proprietary blobs" (there's varying level of obfuscation/debug info).
      • mariusor 10mo ago
        Which proprietary blobs in Sailfish OS are worse than the others you were referring to?
        • wiseowise 10mo ago
          Whole OS?
          • m4rtink 10mo ago
            Basically all the middleware in Sailfish OS was always open source and many of the apps as well. They have been also IIRC finally open sourcing the primary apps as there are no longer pesky external investors forcikg them to keep things closed for weird reasons.
          • mariusor 10mo ago
            There are driver blobs for the underlying device which they can't do much about, and then there are the last vestiges of Lipstick (the Sailfish OS UI), which are not released under an open source license. That's hardly "the whole OS", since everything else is a plain linux distribution.
• abnercoimbre 10mo ago
  > Entering other markets, such as the U.S. and Canada are to be decided due course based on potential interest from the areas. As an American, I will order this phone as soon as it’s available to me! I’m not aware of any similar option for us at the moment so I’m a little sad.
  • joecool1029 10mo ago
    > As an American, I will order this phone as soon as it’s available to me! It won’t be. From the time of their first phone the company actively made the choice to not support the US market. There’s the obvious spectrum difference and cost to certify, but the real reason they don’t want to touch it is litigation risk on patents and whatnot.
    • moelf 10mo ago
      https://www.androidauthority.com/graphene-os-major-android-oem-partnership-3606853/ https://www.androidauthority.com/graphene-os-major-android-o... hope fully soon
      • netdevphoenix 10mo ago
        Main problem with this is that Google can end it as soon as they want to as Google effectively controls Android. Tactics like remote attestion will make it increasingly harder for Graphene to exist
    • monerozcash 10mo ago
      Even if it's not sold in America, you might still be able to buy it and use it, how well that'll work depends on the spectrum compatibility of course.
      • MBCook 10mo ago
        This seems like the bigger problem to me the kind of people who are interested in this phone seem like the same kind of people who would be perfectly happy to order it from Europe or Asia. I don’t think many people who really want this are the kind of people who just walk into a cell phone store and buy whatever tickles their fancy.
• rzerowan 10mo ago
  Seems they still havent figured out a business model for their OS. Hardware at low volumes wont move ala kickstarter. Would have thought after their ups and downs they would have landedon a sustainable businesss model. The market oppurtunity is there and the timing is favourable. All thats needed to stick the landing and have a viable alt to the ios/android duoploly. Personally would recommend they work with an established OEM to customize/port drivers to existing hardware and market to a specific vertical rather than a general purpose for normies device.
  • m4rtink 10mo ago
    They have been selling Sailfish X for selected Sony Xperia devices for years.
    • rzerowan 10mo ago
      Thats part of it actually , they have(had) a nonstandard offering via Sony hardware. If it was a known OEM like Oppo/Honor/Oneplus theres already some familiarity/buyin from users and lines possibly can be opened for select verticals. Instead with the SonyX offerings , they linited it to a tiny range, upgrades as i recall were sometimes not possible to newer versions and a separate support contract to Jollla was needed. A pure play ala android would do better, they (jolla) do the software - the OEM does the hardware/updates similarly to how Linux distros like Ubuntu get bundled into Dell etc. If they were a hardware firm like Huawei bulding their phone and OS makes sense , or with massive scale like Google with Pixel.They are neither. Hardware is hard, and scaling it at volume moreso.
      • m4rtink 10mo ago
        I have Sailfish X on an Xperia 10 III (eg. officially supported Sailfis OS) and I am getting Sailfish OS updates just fine. As for phone model support - mobile hardware is a mess at low level with most APIs that make PC hardware easy to support by a single OS image (such as ACPI tables) simply missing. Not to mention various hardware bugs that the Android firmwares need to work around or paper ober as well. As for support contract/subscription, that is I think still a recent idea they are playing with on some newer devices. I actually think its a good idea, as it adds an incentive for the OS vendor to support existing hardware. Currently it is usually the other way around, where the manufacturer is also the downstream OS vendor that does not get any money past initial purchase and basically wants the device to become unusable as fast as possible, so that you buy another one soon.
• deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
• aapoalas 10mo ago
  I low-key hate myself for this, but I went and preorder. I've been waiting for SFOS to come to my Xperia 10 IV but that seems to still be in beta, and after quite a few years it'd be hard to switch over ask well... But I have to try support Jolla as they've been my go-to phone OS maker for the last 10-15 years.
  • DanOpcode 10mo ago
    Why do you hate yourself for it?
• rckt 10mo ago
  It would be great if all these companies contributed to a some kind of a unified modular platform like Project ARA. I see a lot of new devices, but they all do their own stuff. They produce hardware for their software, the end result is the same as with big brands. Most of these devices are usable while they are supported by these companies. Some of them allow installing custom Android roms, but not many. Looks like the market just gets more fragmented without any improvements towards better sustainability/reusability. The only thing that really caught my attention recently was Pilet, a handheld Raspberry Pi. That's a really cool thing, that gives mobility while maintaining functionality.
  • mciancia 10mo ago
    I hope not. Projects like that to have any chance at surviving have to be good phones first. Adding modularity will make it worse in terms of specs, more expensive and in the result dead on arrival. Once they launch a few successful (or at least sustainable) products, they can maybe try doing some modularity
  • getpokedagain 10mo ago
    Am I the only one who just feels burnt out on these type of projects? We have a plethora of raspberry pi and other arm mobile developer kits that all just fail to deliver. They make great pet projects but fail at what most mobile phones do great which is provide a computer I can reliably and safely take with me in life. This pilet thing has 7 hours of battery life, is huge and will probably explode if I put it in my bikes bag. While it's not perfect I've been investing more time into learning to live with grapheneOS. I can run Emacs and clang on the go. It's a better start that won't turn into a paperweight.
    • mariusor 10mo ago
      I'm not sure what you think Jolla is, but they have a track record of releasing phones that are good enough to be used as daily drivers. They are also targeting enthusiasts, but I've been using exclusively phones that run Sailfish OS (their main product) since 2014.
• mhitza 10mo ago
  47% percent of voters wanted a ~6" phone, and 12% of voters a ~7" phone. I guess me and the remaining 41% of voters are still left wishing for 5" phones to make a comeback.
  • deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  • dijit 10mo ago
    Supply chain has left us. Since there's no new development happening with small phones, we'd have to settle for "older spec" screens (IE, new stock iPhone 5 screens, with none of the colour accuracy, frame-rate etc improvements from the last 10 years). People don't like "old spec", so they'd probably not buy those devices. If you're a small player, then you're downstream of the supply chain, you don't make the rules. Chicken and Egg problem. Ironically people think there's no market for small phones due to apple making a "small phone" which had a larger screen size than an iPhone 6.. which was when phones started getting too big for me, and many people I spoke to. So, you make a small phone that isn't actually small, it sells like poop so you presume that people don't want small phones..
    • sho_hn 10mo ago
      Re us/we, you're not associated with Jolla, right? For clarity.
      • dijit 10mo ago
        To clarify: no. Though I suspect I worked with many staff members at Nokia. Their former CTO was my boss.
    • jeffbee 10mo ago
      You know what, that is exactly what Lenovo executives were telling their customers right up until the moment that Apple released Retina devices. Lenovo swore in a blog post that because of the overall panel market it was quite impossible to put an IPS display in a laptop, then a few days later Apple released a 221 DPI 15" IPS MacBook Pro.
• Nifty3929 10mo ago
  I love the idea of the privacy switch, but I want more: I want a hard, electromechanical switch for each of: Mic, camera, GPS, wifi, cell, bluetooth. These can be tiny and aesthetically pleasing, as long as I can easily flip on/off the one I want. The problem with having a single button, even configurable, is that it's all-or-nothing, and I might want different things at different times. But thanks so much for taking the first step!
  • stackedinserter 10mo ago
    If it catches traction, there will be usb-connected phone cases that expose these switches to physical controls.
    • jeffbee 10mo ago
      I don't think that's what anyone means by "physical controls" and if they do, then they don't know what they are talking about.
      • stackedinserter 10mo ago
        "Physical controls" are those that you can physically sense. My point was everyone needs different things, so it's possible to keep core functionality simple and let users add what they need, via extensions. Like dongle hell but better.
    • Nifty3929 10mo ago
      I do not really understand what you mean by this. Can you elaborate or clarify what you mean?
      • stackedinserter 10mo ago
        I mean since it's linux phone with (hopefully) open architecture, it should be possible to create an external usb device that exposes any functionality. Like, to keep core functionality simple and open it for extensions ("extra battery", "knobs and switches", "ethernet" etc)
• Nifty3929 10mo ago
  "... It is governed by European privacy ..." - This is not inspiring in today's climate. I hope instead it's governed by a principal of people's privacy.
• afandian 10mo ago
  I went down a 1-minute rabbithole. I hate Whatsapp, but it's not optional. So I was curious if it's compatible. There's a Sailfish help page [0] showing how to get the APK from Aptoide, or downloading directly from Whatsapp.com . But with Google killing off 'sideloading', is it credible that independent APK sources are going to dry up in future? [0] https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Help_Articles/Whatsapp_Setup/ https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Help_Articles/Whatsapp_S...
  • d3Xt3r 10mo ago
    That shouldn't be a problem as long as you can still download apps from the Play Store itself (not the official app). Basically, take a look at how proxy stores like Aurora work, they connect to the Play Store servers and allow you to download apps directly from Google, without needing the Play Store app. Of course, this doesn't mean that the downloaded app will work on such a device (if it doesn't have Google Play Services), but at least it lets you download the app, which isn't much different from downloading it from say, APK Mirror. And as long as you can extract the apps from either the Play Store or Android devices itself (via adb/root etc), I'm assuming sites like APK Mirror will continue to exist.
  • cluckindan 10mo ago
    ”I hate Whatsapp, but it's not optional” Yes it is.
    • afandian 10mo ago
      To rephrase: Social contact is ultimately higher in my needs than technology choice.
      • drenobel 10mo ago
        They are having phones, with like, cellular communication methods, you know...
    • dyingkneepad 10mo ago
      While WhatsApp is not very much used in the US, in some other countries such as Brazil it is basically the primary form of "phone" communication. It is everyone's default text, voice and video message platform. People don't ask if you have WhatsApp there, they just assume it. You talk to your Bank/Investor manager using WhatsApp. You order pizza through WhatsApp. Customer Support for services is WhatsApp bots that send you to the correct places. If I don't have WhatsApp, I can't voice chat with my mom, she won't see her grandkids. If you have any sort of business, you need WhatsApp. And yes, I do have Signal installed, and there are only 2 people who talk to me through it (one being my partner). Phone carriers got too greedy charging for every single SMS message and phone call, WhatsApp took over when smartphones became popular.
• pajko 10mo ago
  Based on a Mediatek CPU, so not for me.
  • jhoho 10mo ago
    That threw me off, too. They probably chose it to keep the costs low. I wonder about the overall impact, though.
    • m4rtink 10mo ago
      Surprisingly even Samsung uses Mediatek in quite a few devices they sell.
  • Aachen 10mo ago
    Why?
• fodmap 10mo ago
  Don't confuse Jolla https://jolla.com/ https://jolla.com/ with Volla https://volla.online/en/index.php https://volla.online/en/index.php Both are European companys with a great privacy drive.
  • whalesalad 10mo ago
    we need a .olla TLD
  • nsoqm 10mo ago
    Nobody has confused Jolla with Volla, mostly because nobody has ever heard of Volla.
    • LostMyWords 10mo ago
      I actually confused them many times, when I started researching Android alternatives and Linux phones. Now I learnt :)
    • fodmap 10mo ago
      You didn't need to create a new account just to say something that is not true ;) You'd say that most people don't know about Linux phones, but for those who know, Volla running Ubuntu is pretty well known, at least in Europe.
  • mariusor 10mo ago
    And to my eternal puzzlement here's two companies that are made for one another and so far they've never worked together on a project. SMH...
    • fodmap 10mo ago
      Exactly. It'd be great a genuine collective European effort to make a Linux phone. Another crucial point is to push for open standards for those apps that only work on Android or iOS.
  • Aachen 10mo ago
• kogepathic 10mo ago
  Hard no on giving Jolla a cent. Jolla rug-pulled [1] people who crowd-funded [2] their tablet in 2014. Jolla used the crowd-funding campaign to butter up VCs for their next funding round [3] and then decided the Asian LLC handling the crowdfunding would go bankrupt, leaving backers with no tablets and most with no refund. [4] The real kicker was that the tablets were ALREADY manufactured by their ODM, Jolla just never paid them. Took backers money and stiffed their manufacturing partner too. For a while after the campaign folded you could buy Jolla branded tablets (running Android, it was just an ODM model they flashed Sailfish on) on eBay or Taobao [5]. I just checked and there's a Jolla Tablet listed on eBay right now. [6] 10 years later, it looks like they're trying the same thing. Maybe they think the internet has forgotten, but I have zero interest in supporting their next hardware rug-pull endeavour. [1] https://together.jolla.com/question/97695/information-regarding-crowdfunding-tablet/ https://together.jolla.com/question/97695/information-regard... [2] https://www.indiegogo.com/en/projects/jolla/jolla-tablet-world-s-first-crowdsourced-tablet https://www.indiegogo.com/en/projects/jolla/jolla-tablet-wor... [3] https://jolla.com/content/uploads/2017/02/46_JOLLATABLET_STRATEGY_PRESS_RELEASE_DEC2014_FINAL.pdf?x24312 https://jolla.com/content/uploads/2017/02/46_JOLLATABLET_STR... [4] https://blog.jolla.com/second_phase_refund/ https://blog.jolla.com/second_phase_refund/ [5] https://old.reddit.com/r/Jolla/comments/3x2s7e/jolla_tablets_supposedly_being_sold_in_chinese/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Jolla/comments/3x2s7e/jolla_tablets... [6] https://archive.ph/Ncf17 https://archive.ph/Ncf17
  • mariusor 10mo ago
    As someone that's contributed to the Jolla tablet foundraiser, I mostly got refunded when they canceled it. It took a long time, it was not directly the money I contributed, but I wasn't left with nothing, and I don't feel like I've been cheated. YMMV, of course, it sounds like you're talking from experience.
  • Paianni 10mo ago
    afaik the tablet was in development hell for much of 2015, by the time it was ready it was no longer profitable and Jolla couldn't afford to buy more than about 600 units without going bust.
• 999900000999 10mo ago
  No jack, meaning I'll have to fight a hacked together Bluetooth implementation. Its an interesting project, but not for me.
  • mpol 10mo ago
    It uses Bluez for bluetooth connections. Or maybe that's what you meant ;) Bluetooth is a hack anyway.
    • 999900000999 10mo ago
      Bluetooth barely works on Android. I have no confidence in it working constantly on a new OS like this.
      • m4rtink 10mo ago
        The new OS launched in 2013 on production hardware and has a legacy even longer in the Maemo project under Nokia.
  • mariusor 10mo ago
    Out of all the OS's on which you'd have to hack on a bluetooth implementation, I feel like a mostly vanilla linux is the best one you could hope for. [edit] If it's not obvious from my previous phrasing, I'm referring to Sailfish OS.
• NoSalt 10mo ago
  > "Markets: EU, UK, Norway and Switzerland" Well, crap!
  • Aachen 10mo ago
    Time to move? :P
• dzink 10mo ago
  Show the operating system. That is the core of what people will be using - they need to know what it looks like. How easy it is. The phone looks like all other phones.
  • ActorNightly 10mo ago
    https://sailfishos.org/ https://sailfishos.org/
    • wiseowise 10mo ago
      This doesn’t show OS, sadly. Only a list of some features that nobody outside of geek cultures care. Show flashy videos, images, gorgeous animations. If someone from jolla reads this: Just hire DHH as your hypeman, he’ll be able to sell anything to lemmings.
      • cf100clunk 10mo ago
        > hire DHH as your hypeman, he’ll be able to sell anything to lemmings Nah, they can have this slogan for free: "Yo, with Jolla YOLO!" Anyway, I wish Jolla well.
    • dzink 10mo ago
      That page caters to corporations who want to restrict employee phones - worst possible marketing for consumers.
  • MarsIronPI 10mo ago
    Isn't it SailfishOS? It shouldn't be too hard to find screenshots/screencasts. I just hope it has good mainline kernel support.
    • m4rtink 10mo ago
      Yeah - its a real daily usable thing on supported hardware & I have been using it on primary phone since 2013. :)
• monerozcash 10mo ago
  >User configurable physical Privacy Switch - turn off you microphone, bluetooth, Android apps, or whatever you wish sus I don't think it is a good idea to call this a "privacy switch", obviously it works in software and can't be trusted.
  • ajsnigrutin 10mo ago
    yep... my lenovo laptop has a physical privacy switch for the camera... it's literally a piece of plastic that covers the lens, no way to bypass that (without physical access). I feel safe. If it can be enabled in software, it can be disabled in software, and I don't trust software.
    • monerozcash 10mo ago
      Yeah, the idea of having a physical switch marketed as a "privacy switch" that doesn't actually physically disconnect things seems ... kind of ridiculous? Dangerous even.
• cbolton 10mo ago
  The Linux phone that's more closed than Android, it's a hard sell for me.
  • 9cb14c1ec0 10mo ago
    Can you explain this a bit more? What is closed about it?
    • cbolton 10mo ago
      The operating system (Sailfish OS) is a mix of components, some open and some closed. Search for "open source" on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS . They have said years ago that it would be open sourced, but as far as I know the Silica UI is still proprietary.
      • mpol 10mo ago
        It was mainly the investors that didn't want to move. Many things were stagnant that needed moving. Now that the investors are gone there is a chance to move things, and slowly things are moving into open sourcing their software.
        • cbolton 10mo ago
          That's nice, thanks for mentioning it. Is there anywhere we can read about this?
          • mpol 10mo ago
            The Open Sourcing? There is more about it on the forum for Sailfish with phase 1, the weather app, notes app and a few other bits: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/open-sourcing-proceeding/24689 https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/open-sourcing-proceeding/2468... Then there is community news category with updates, but it's a bit haphazard and ongoing in this context: https://forum.sailfishos.org/c/community-news/25 https://forum.sailfishos.org/c/community-news/25 The Camera app, Gallery app, Nexcloud accounts and other accounts components are open sourced and on github. There is now talk about Silica, the Wayland compositor. It hasn't been updated well in recent years and there is talk about moving it to Weston or Wlroots, while also supporting xdg-shell for GTK applications.
• Paianni 10mo ago
  I hope they've learned their lesson after the tablet fiasco.
  • fumblertzu 10mo ago
    It looks so. That is actually the second phone they are making since them and the first got quite good responses
• ramon156 10mo ago
  > A successor to the iconic original Jolla Phone from 2013 does anyone own this 2013 version? why did it not crash the market? Also, will my banking app be supported on sailfishOS?
  • m4rtink 10mo ago
    I have it - Wayland, BTRFS, RPM and systemd on a phone - in 2013! Why did it not set the wolrd on fire back then ? Ruthless monopoly building on both Google and Apple side IMHO. It's a great success Jolla still exists and does its thing. :-)
    • nebula8804 10mo ago
      >Ruthless monopoly building on both Google and Apple side IMHO. Microsoft spent a lot of money and resources trying to compete and failed. Android/Apple just started early enough and by 2012 it was too late as most consumers have decided. To enter this market you have to be truly unique or else you are just copying the competitor and why would users switch if they are happy enough? Is that really a monopoly if you had a third competitor come in and try?
      • m4rtink 10mo ago
        Consumers decided - and Google also decided to ban manufacturers from building phones with another OS or they loose access to Google Play store and Google apps on the lucrative Android phones they also manufacture: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on... (the article is from 2013 but was updated in 2018) So no manufacturer that already builds Android phones will make an alternative OS phone for you - and that's effectively all of the mobile phone manufacturers given Apple makes all of the iOS devices.
        • nebula8804 10mo ago
          Why haven't all the manufacturers filed a counter suit or otherwise work to pressure Google and cause them grief? They are all suffering so they should all work to reduce that suffering no? Only thing I can think of is that some manufacturers are doing just fine in this arrangement so there is no motivation to upend the apple cart.
• dman 10mo ago
  Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Jolla never shipped me a tablet or offered me a refund back when they were making tablets. I would strongly urge people not to pre-order from the company since they have a track record of not shipping and being extremely irresponsible in their communications when they dont ship.
  • aapoalas 10mo ago
    Hmm, I at least received a refund on the tablet; I think half of it was paid out and half of it I opted to use as payment for Sailfish X. An email I have stored from July 4th 2017 mentions "the tablet refund tool", so there seems to have been a concrete system for this refunding process as well. I abstractly remember something like that, though I must say my memory is shoddy and should not be trusted.
    • dman 10mo ago
      This is the last response I have from them in my inbox (Sep 24, 2015, 8:56 AM). Never heard back from them after this inspite of repeated subsequent queries ---------------- Hi, thank you for your message. We are sending the invites out to contributors in groups according to the chronological order of contributions. Please also note that we are slowly ramping up the deliveries, starting with a smaller group to ensure that everything works as it should, but anticipate future groups to be bigger in size. This means that we are currently unable to estimate your exact order number in the queue. To read all the latest on the Tablet campaign, please stay tuned to the Jolla Blog. For some commonly asked questions and answers, please see our Jolla Tablet Campaign FAQs. Thank you again for your contribution! Sincerely, Jolla Customer Care Operating hours: Monday to Friday from 9.00 - 17.00 GMT +2; close weekends and public holidays (Finland). Join the Movement @ jolla.com Like us on Facebook @ jollaofficial Follow on Twitter @ jollaHQ Dive deeper into the Jolla world @ Official Jolla Blog
• dethos 10mo ago
  I'm a bit torn about this. On one hand, I really think viable alternatives to Android/iOS are now more necessary than ever, and I'm eager to explore this OS. On the other hand, I'm not in the mood to buy new hardware (right now) just to try it out. Nevertheless, I hope they succeed.
• ThePowerOfFuet 10mo ago
  They'll have my money if they meet the requirements for GrapheneOS.
  • m4rtink 10mo ago
    Well, that could help drive the production numbers up, hopefully driving the per unit price down. :)
  • mariusor 10mo ago
    Sailfish OS is better than GrapheneOS through virtue of being mostly a vanilla linux distribution with Android being just an optional bad dream.
    • 0rzech 10mo ago
      GrapheneOS' main selling point is security. Is Sailfish OS better at that, or at least in the same league, nowadays?
      • szopin 10mo ago
        It's in a different league as it's a linux phone first and foremost, not degoogled/hardened android, you get full root access as a checkbox in settings that will install terminal app for you to hack to your heart's content, user having root access is not an attack vector for them
        • 0rzech 10mo ago
          I was not asking about having terminal and root access. I was asking about security-wise parity, for example memory protection, full "disk" encryption, permission model, application sandboxing etc. This is the main selling point of GrapheneOS. This and Android application compatibility, but Sailfish OS has its Android compatibility layer too.
          • mariusor 10mo ago
• jeffbee 10mo ago
  "Real Linux on a phone" sounds to me like the worst user experience imaginable. And the whole thing about "no phoning home" should be interpreted as "we have no idea whether the latest release is crashing in the wild or not".
  • pessimizer 10mo ago
    You probably never used Maemo, whose UI (and also Palm's WebOS UI) were ripped off for later versions of Android and iOS, which wasn't even multitasking yet. Literally hired the same people to do them. Jolla started with the FOSS parts of Maemo but went proprietary. If Nokia hadn't been intentionally destroyed by its board in a romance with Microsoft cash, through a Canadian snake, Maemo would have been a real contender. You can get an vague idea what it looked like from here: https://maemo-leste.github.io/ https://maemo-leste.github.io/ Also, I don't know what's motivating you to just make negative shit up from whole cloth. Where did Linux touch you?
    • tetris11 10mo ago
      Hear, hear. I once asked David Potter what happened post-symbian, and he smiled and shrugged
    • jeffbee 10mo ago
      Again, starting from elements of Maemo is a surefire way to ship a ghastly user experience. The N800 that I still own had the most hostile UI of any device I ever bought with my own money. The reason it flopped was because it is really bad, not a great conspiracy. Look at the TODOs for Maemo Leste, which you just referenced. "Phone calls should work, with audio, when alsamixer is set up properly". That is F-tier user experience. OpenMoko-level garbage.
      • drenobel 10mo ago
        Two words: Nokia N9.
        • 10mo ago
• stiray 10mo ago
  I wouldnt recommend it. TLDR: while the OS is great (really GREAT), the real-world compatibility is not. I had Sailfish OS for a daily driver for two years, and OS is great (let me say that again, Sailfish IS GREAT!), but there are "the details". Jolla is completely ignorant to needs of their users. While they do have an android layer, they are ignoring to things that are of huge importance for daily life, like bluetooth passtrough, and are important due to daily needs, for instance, bluetooth passtrough is really important for using public transport here. FFS, I was reversing banking application and patching it to be able to use it. And actually became very good at it :D Here is a bluetooth feature request thread, that is open for 5 years: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/bluetooth-support-in-android https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/bluetooth-support-in-android and being blatantly ignored. And lets not get into details, like NFC. So at the end you will have a great OS, incompatible with the whole world. After 2 years of suffering, I ditched Sailfish, bought Pixel and installed Graphene OS. Once Jolla starts to listen to their customers, they are on the path to very real android contender, but unfortunately they just dont understand, that people need some features, they are not providing while the vendors wont support some exotic OS. They need to adapt, not vendors - the whole thread is full of this mentality. The android "container" was a step into right direction but they just shouldnt abandone it and keep on supporting it, adding additional layers of compatibility. I really hope they will change their mind at some point and prioritize compatibility, would love to ditch android and its spyware driven ecosystem completely, but sadly, Graphene OS + NetGuard is just a far better alternative until Jolla stops behaving like an infant. They are literally sabotaging themself in a worse possible way.
  • mariusor 10mo ago
    For a company of their size that has to compete in the tech market of today, I'm surprised they're able to produce updates for the OS as regular as they do. Blaming they can't keep up with user requests, granted reasonable ones, is a little short sighted in my opinion. If we want to break the Apple/Google duopoly we need to be able to bear a couple of paper cuts. If you wait for perfection before committing they'll just end up going out of business. :(
    • stiray 10mo ago
• mathgeek 10mo ago
  > Pre-Order Now for 99 € Is this something generally understood to be a down payment in EU nomenclature? Just curiosity, as in the US I'd generally expect it to mean you get a phone on launch for the stated price, and a down payment to use something along the lines of "reserve for...".
  • 0rzech 10mo ago
    I live in Poland and I'd expect the same as you.
• storus 10mo ago
  HMD under NOKIA brand went almost out of business due to adding notches to their phones, now Jolla is doing the same mistake. Only Apple could get away with it. At least they aren't shipping a 720p display anymore. Why didn't they just replicate/rebrand Xperia?
• Telaneo 10mo ago
  Low hopes and low expectations given Jollas previous dealings, not to mention Linux phones' typical issues. But one can hope.
• raphinou 10mo ago
  Can it be reinstalled with a standard linux (for me at the end of it's life)? That would make me buy it.
  • m4rtink 10mo ago
    Salifish OS is already as far as you can usually get with Linux on these mobile devices - it uses Wayland, glibc, DBUS, RPM, Bash, Python, Qt, etc.
• sexeriy237 10mo ago
  If it costs Apple $5 to fully manufacture a iphone, how much for one of these $10? So why is it $500?
• everdrive 10mo ago
  Android and iOS need to be shaken up so badly that I welcome more or less anything into this space, no matter how flawed. That said, I think the chances I buy one of these is very low. At the moment, I keep a smart phone solely so that finding work is not difficult. You need quite the personal network to explain that "I don't have a smart phone." Otherwise, I'm trying to abstain from smart phone usage as much as possible: the market is probably _never_ going to solve one which solves addiction problem. (the best solution for this is to have a desktop computer which you only sit at for specific tasks) On the other hand, if I could run my company's OTP and it were much more private than iOS or Android I would probably jump ship.
  • m4rtink 10mo ago
    Its a compact Linux PC in a phone form factor - especially if you do not install the Android emulation layer. :)
  • fumblertzu 10mo ago
    What otp are you using? You can ask in the forum of sailfishos if it runs
  • Aachen 10mo ago
    You "welcome" this because the market needs to be shaken up "so badly", but won't buy it? What does that mean then, that you'll allow it to exist "no matter how flawed"? I'm genuinely confused as to what this is trying to say
  • MinimalAction 10mo ago
    I echo your sentiments on smartphone addiction problem. But I don't understand why you wouldn't buy it although this is in the same spirit of shaking up the duopoly you alluded to.
• amanciero 10mo ago
  Does Jolla do product or update announcements? How to follow them? RSS feed?
  • andreyv 10mo ago
    Follow this forum: https://forum.sailfishos.org/c/announcements/17 https://forum.sailfishos.org/c/announcements/17.
  • jhoho 10mo ago
    Their last announcement is from November 2024: https://jolla.com/press https://jolla.com/press I guess they'll start PR once the phone is funded.
  • Setok 10mo ago
    They post now and then on Mastodon. https://techhub.social/@jolla https://techhub.social/@jolla
• tmikaeld 10mo ago
  Warning, the OS doesn’t work with many European banking apps like BankID. If it did, I’d be all over it
  • m4rtink 10mo ago
    I would phrase it differently - many European banks choose hard dependency on proprietary technology provided by two non-EU duopolists (Apple and Google) that don't answer to anyone. And they usually don't provide a suitable alternative, as actually secure solution based on something like a yubikey.
    • Aachen 10mo ago
      My banks have always provided hardware 2FA. I think it used to be free and was surprised that I had to pay for the latest one, but I've had the previous one since my parents paid for everything so idk if that was maybe always the case I've always done banking from the browser since I got access to any banking at all (probably when I was 16, ~15 years ago). Not sure what I'm supposed to be missing out on with these apps that don't work on many user-controlled devices (be it Linux-based or rooted Android). Log in with chip+pin for my Dutch bank (primary account), and a perplexing combination of high-entropy username, password, 2 randomly asked digits of a 5-digit PIN, a color code that you scan with the hardware device which needs another 5-digit PIN, and then typing over the 8-digit confirmation code. German efficiency! But I barely use that account anyway
  • DanOpcode 10mo ago
    Not even with the Android emulation layer?
  • fumblertzu 10mo ago
    A surprising amount of banking apps actually work. Check the forum. My two german banks were fine
• poetaster 10mo ago
  Yipee! Ok, I can't afford more hardware, but it's my favourite mobile os and I develop/maintain apps for it, so I'm happy to see the amount of effort Jolla has put in in the last 2 years to stay relevant and up their game!
  • Aachen 10mo ago
    Would you like this phone to run your own apps? If you spend development time on the ecosystem, I could maybe pay your voucher (the 99€ downpayment part), then you can get the hardware on release at the discounted price they offer for backers Edit: I'll probably miss any replies here. Email me on (rot13) wbyyn99@ytzf.ay. I'm offering this because imo it's important to have an alternative ecosystem to Android, considering the developments in the last year where it's becoming more like iOS. Other developers who are short on funds who read this should also feel free to reach out, though I'm not some super wealthy investor I can see about what I can do
    • aerique 10mo ago
      I can also chip in, fully agree with Aachen. (and I've also made apps for things I'm missing on SFOS (Pushover client, Bluesky client), so Hi5!)
• butz 10mo ago
  Is there some secret competition going on between phone makers, who can make the most obnoxious camera bump and get away with it?
  • struanr 10mo ago
    Is a camera bump really that much of an issue? Most people have a case on their phone anyway
    • Aachen 10mo ago
      The case argument really solves everything whenever someone brings up poor choices - Annoying glass back that scratches immediately and slides out of your hand- "just put a case on it" - Undersized battery that won't last a day - "you can buy a case with a battery" - The phone wobbles when you lay it on a desk or nightstand - "most people use a case anyway" If we're meant to make our phones twice as thick, why not sell it in that form factor? Stuff that extra battery in there, make the backside grippy, and have it be able to lay down without being like a 4-legged chair where 1 leg is longer I've never used a case on any phone. They're big enough as it is (in the xy dimensions). I did try it out of necessity when needing 2 phones in 1 pocket (work and private phone) for a week during a work trip. It's doable but just why
• anonymousiam 10mo ago
  I would pre-order one, but they don't seem to be willing to sell to US customers. The last two bullets of their FAQ: Will the Jolla Phone work outside Europe, can I use it e.g. in the U.S.? Yes, we will design the cellular band configuration to enable global travelling as much as possible, including e.g. roaming in the U.S. carrier networks. Can I buy the Jolla Phone if I’m outside Europe, can I use it e.g. in the U.S.? The initial sales markets are EU, UK, Switzerland and Norway. Entering other markets, such as the U.S. and Canada are to be decided due course based on potential interest from the areas.
  • magic-amoeba 10mo ago
    I ordered phones all the time from Europe 25 years ago when you couldn’t get a cool phone in the US. There will be a store somewhere that’ll sell you one.
• joaomacp 10mo ago
  Reminder that the greenest smartphone is one you already have. If my phone died today, I still have a company-given one that I never use. I'd just ask my org to give or sell it to me for personal use.
• nonamesleft 10mo ago
  No keyboard, enormous bulbous camera. (Was just dreaming after unihertz said it doesn't deliver to my EU country (after taking my money), guess i'll stick to my featurephone for now).
• xorcist 10mo ago
  Why no audio jack? Sooo close!