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Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years
- namblooc 11mo ago[flagged]
- Barathkanna 11mo agoI was flabbergasted driving a 2023 Honda Civic Sport during a trip to Thailand, easily one of the best-balanced cars I’ve driven. Makes me wonder if that model is using the same engine they’re talking about here
- papercrane 11mo agoIt could've been, but it was probably a turbocharged L-series engine.
- tmerc 11mo agoDepends on the engine. They had an option for a turbo 1.5l l15 and a 2l k20. Plus a few others I don't know were offered in usdm. No idea about Thailand but if it wasn't a 2 liter, I think it was not a k series. In a very niche form of motorsport, the civic sport is top in class for a lower tier Street class with the SI being top of another lower tier Street class.
- Lio 11mo agoWhen I was a kid I wanted a classic Mini with a transplanted Honda K-Series engine. It's a big engine for that little car but I'd completely forgotten about them over the years. It's wild that people are still doing this: https://potentialmotorsport.com/ https://potentialmotorsport.com/ I might have to reserect that dream. :D
- jacquesm 11mo agoThe torque steer on those things is unbelievable, they are really unsafe but a lot of fun. I drove one that had 'only' 160 HP according to the owner and it was incredible. Cars like that will get you shrinkwrapped but you will be smiling...
- Lio 11mo agoI have a feeling it's one of those things, like owning a Capri 2.8i or one of the really old school 911 Turbos, that is better left to fantasy for me. I love the idea but I'm a pretty rubbish driver and would probably end up getting myself into trouble. ...would be fun though!
- jacquesm 11mo agoI've driven a lot of weird and interesting cars but none quite that scary. It felt borderline out of control all the time and I was happy to return it to the owner with all the parts still attached. The 'worst' mini I owned was a souped up Innocenti bored out to the max, it was still fairly safe to drive but I would not let non experienced mini drivers others drive it, too many surprise factors. We drove that thing through Scotland (my eldest and me) and it was a trip to remember. Another interesting one - that I didn't drive but the son of the owner did - was a TR with a massive Ford special products V8 shoehorned into it. If you live in eastern Canada and you're overtaken by something small and wicked fast with 'BAD TR' as the license plate, that was it. Getting in the passenger seat of that thing was an interesting experience, the engine took up half the footwell, and the clutch had so little throw that you couldn't really tell when it was depressed and when it wasn't. It certainly moved though.
- 11mo ago
- alexey-salmin 11mo agoToyota 5A was in production 1987–2006, and IIRC was licensed to Chinese manufacturers afterwards. The A series as a whole lasted 1978–2006. Less modern than Honda K, but these were lovely engines. They just won't fail as long as you replace parts on time.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- jeffbee 11mo agoEngines used in general aviation have interchangeable parts from almost 100 years ago. You could warp a Lycoming engine mechanic in from 1942 using your time traveling phone booth and he'd be able to fix your 172 of any vintage.
- jabl 11mo agoYeah, but that's because general aviation engines are stuck in a time capsule from the 1940'ies, not because they are particularly good engines by today's standards. Exception being Rotax on the low end.
- stockresearcher 11mo agoOne of the interesting quirks of the Honda K-series is that it spins “backwards”. If you try to mate one to a different transmission (or try to mate a different engine to a K-series transmission), it’s going to give you, uh, interesting results! Lots of people found out the hard way when they used their Fast & Furious inspiration to do JDM swaps :)
- ianschmitz 11mo agoYou’re thinking of a couple of the older Honda series of engine. K series spin the conventional direction.
- cobalt60 11mo agoSo are the staright sixes from BMW. Running one generation behind B58.
- bluedino 11mo agoGM/Chevrolet are still making small-block 350 engines, they started in the 1950's https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19433032.html https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19433032.html
- officeplant 11mo agoI have a feeling GM is going to keep making pushrod v8's until the eventual death of the internal combustion engine.
- potato3732842 11mo agoSomeone will, because it's a useful form factor. And that someone is gonna be the people who are the experts in it, which is pretty strongly arguably GM. There have been sooooo many SBCs shat out into the world in industrial applications that even if GM stops making them someone will keep making them. You can't make a compatible single replacement because you'll break a ton of applications. You can't make a ton of different replacements because that's not economical. Only makes sense to keep making them.
- bluedino 11mo ago> And that someone is gonna be the people who are the experts in it, which is pretty strongly arguably GM. They were, at least. Massive recall on the 6.2L versions of their V8 engines right now. https://www.lemonfirm.com/blog/gm-6-2l-engine-recall-what-truck-and-suv-owners-need-to-know https://www.lemonfirm.com/blog/gm-6-2l-engine-recall-what-tr...
- potato3732842 11mo agoA lot of bigger engines are running right on the edge of oiling problems these days. With fuel economy rules being what they are it's just how it is. GM isn't special in this regard. Ford is killing a lot of cams and lifters (a problem GM fought through some years ago). Meanwhile Toyota[1] is recalling blown up turbo v6s left and right (for problems that you can't just dump different oil in to solve) because they didn't invest in keeping a big v8 on the cutting like GM did and they didn't invest in making small turbo stuff last long like Ford did. [1]Mentioned not because they have unique problems but because who if not a Toyota fanboy makes a comment like yours
- bombcar 11mo agoThe "Mopar 318" (Chrysler LA engine) lasted almost 40 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LA_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LA_engine
- stockresearcher 11mo agoLand Rover bought the rights to use an aluminum V8 that GM/Buick developed in 1960 and it remained in production until 2006.
- coredog64 11mo agoTrue, but they wore out the casting infrastructure and probably should have stopped in 2001
- ErroneousBosh 11mo agoThat's largely a myth told by people with shiny new Coscast engine blocks to sell you. They run too hot because everyone runs lawnmower-grade 95 octane petrol these days, which contributes more than anything else to liners breaking free especially with the liners being thinner on later (90s onwards) 94mm-piston engines. I do wonder if the switch from thin steel "shim" head gaskets to composite ones allowed the liners to move more? Anyway they only break liners free completely (the infamous "dropped liner") if you run them absolutely bone dry of water until one piston expands enough to jam in the liner and start hammering it up and down, just before the engine seizes entirely. It's cheap and easy to get the liners knocked out and the block machined to take "top hat" liners, with a lip around the top that clamps them in place, something like £1800 last time I looked.
- kleiba 11mo agoI don't think that lack of reliability is the key factor for why new motors are still being developed. Fuel efficiency or changing emission standards are two points that come to mind that drive further optimizations.
- jeffbee 11mo agoPerhaps that's what's remarkable about these? They had architectures that could meet 2025 emissions standards, 25 years ago. That said the Honda "L" series engines are just as long-lived and are the even more efficient variety.
- officeplant 11mo agoMy favorite fact I used to tell people when I owned a 2008 Honda Fit was that parts of the L-Series engines was from Honda Powersport's Boat Motor lines. (the crankshaft if memory isn't failing me)
- jeffbee 11mo agoThey should do more cross-over technology. Why do they make a motorcycle with a 1.8l flat 6 engine that shares the 73mmx73mm cylinder format of the early L-series car engine, but they can't bring an engine like that to cars? It would be smooth as hell.
- kristianp 11mo agoIt's sad they're not making Fits anymore.
- FuriouslyAdrift 11mo agoA bunch of engines (Toyota and Subaru come to mind) had oil sludge problems when CAFE standards changed (early 2000s) and they had to redesign.
- Aurornis 11mo agoThe engine series in this article (Honda K-series) has been redeveloped over its lifetime too. The original K20A was only produced for about a decade.
- officeplant 11mo agoFunny considering the K20A1 started off with a dogshit reputation and chain tensioner issues just like the F-series engines in the S2000 that honda refused to learn from. But thanks to aftermarket support you can get third party parts to fix any issue with the K-series, and even see people turbocharging to get them north of 1,200hp. We've got a local guy with a k-swapped Acura NSX that is an absolute monster of a car.
- potato3732842 11mo ago25yr is "meeting expectations" for any mass market[1] engine designed after about the mid 1970s or so. A design that is both not fundamentally flawed in some way and cutting edge enough for its time to not quickly rendered obsolete the steady increase in expectations should go far longer. A design that is "ok" and cutting edge will probably go 20-30yr. A design that is behind the times, and very good (easier to not make wrong design decisions when you're not on the cutting edge) will probably do 20-30yr as well. [1] i.e. not some specialty truck or sports car thing that could become not worth making due to a shift in market conditions for the few segments where it's applicable.
- bluGill 11mo agoNeeds a million upvotes. It costs a large pile of money to design an all-new engine from the ground up that meets modern emissions and is reliable is service for hundreds of thousands of miles. You should be thinking billions of dollars. They only way to make this affordable is to amortize that cost over many many cars of many many years. Sure you will tweak the design here and there for various reasons, but the initial investment to get the first car to a customer is too high to dare start again anytime soon. Of course with electric cars obviously coming it is questionable if any engine is worth starting today. There isn't much worth doing that a minor tweak to an existing design cannot do - and even if there is something it is questionable if engines will be sold long enough to be worth it. (at least for cars - if you target boats or construction equipment or such maybe - though you will note smaller boats typically just take an existing engine and tweak it because there are not enough small boats sold to be worth a new design)
- whaleofatw2022 11mo agoSo much money for an engine or transmission that some companies started collaborating... GEMA was the collab between Chrysler/Mitsu/Hyundai for an inline 4, and GM/Ford have collaborated on a few transmissions too.
- veunes 11mo agoPlenty of engines hit the 20-year mark, but not many do it while still powering everything from family sedans to track-ready Type Rs
- gregoriol 11mo agoSo what? The Rolls-Royce & Bentley L-series engine was made from 1959 to 2020, 60 years, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce–Bentley_L-series_V8_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce–Bentley_L-series_V...), and was only replaced because of mergers and change in ownership, not because of its capacities. It of course evolved quite some during that production span.
- pmontra 11mo agoThat's a series of engines, not a single model. The FIAT FIRE [1] series has been in production for 36 years from 1985 to 2021 and, maybe you wouldn't expect it from FIAT, those engines were reliable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Integrated_Robotised_Engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Integrated_Robotised_Eng...
- skywal_l 11mo agoI counter you with a Cleon engine[0] with 42 years. ;) But in the end an engine can be reliable but still be an environmental liability. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Cl%C3%A9on-Fonte_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Cl%C3%A9on-Fonte_engin...
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- Grosvenor 11mo agoI’ll counter with the jaguar xk engine in production for 43 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_XK_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_XK_engine I assume the American s will be by with a pushrod v8 soon.
- whaleofatw2022 11mo agoActually I'll give a V6 instead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine 1961-2008.
- qingcharles 11mo agoI had a lot of Minis, so I'll counter with the BMC A-Series: 1951-2000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_A-series_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_A-series_engine
- amypetrik8 11mo agoi counter you all with the 70 year legend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_air-cooled_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_air-cooled_engine
- supportengineer 11mo agoI’ve noticed Honda puts an emphasis on reducing stress. I have a 20 year old Honda which still runs fine because everything about it seems “overbuilt” - other owners say it runs fine without coolant, oil, etc - just keeps plugging along.
- technothrasher 11mo ago> other owners say it runs fine without coolant, oil, etc Um, no. Go ahead dump your oil and coolant, go drive your car, and report back how "fine" it did. (No, please don't actually do this. Although here's a guy who did, for the clicks. The Honda did impressively well, but it wasn't "fine". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyejT4VPzlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyejT4VPzlE)
- roflchoppa 11mo agoCoolant sure, my RSX has a radiator leak for the past 2 years. Oil not so much.
- jabl 11mo agoJust pour coolant in via the oil cap. It'll be fine. /s
- potato3732842 11mo agoOn older heavy equipment of low value and high difficulty servicing (think like a forklift or skid steer) it's not uncommon to replace the coolant with oil to mitigate a head gasket issue and simply drain some oil and add to the coolant on some semblance of a schedule.
- bluGill 11mo agoOne of my favorite tractors was the old Oil Pull's which were designed for oil in the radiator. (they were a gas engine, but designed to run on "tractor fuel" which is closer to diesel than gasoline - in order to work the engine had to be very hot)
- calvinmorrison 11mo agoOr the saab H engine, introduced in 1981 and is kicking around https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_H_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_H_engine
- leeoniya 11mo agoreminds me of the LADA vs BMW meme https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fnvmreddutzp11.jpg https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fn...
- fnands 11mo agoEh, I think the Lada is more of a "you can't polish a turd" situation.
- ErroneousBosh 11mo agoThe annoying thing is the third BMW from the left was the perfect one, with the fourth left a close second.
- tw8345 11mo agoYeah going downhill fast they didnt include some of the newer crap
- roflchoppa 11mo agoDid a BAR swap of a k20a2 into a EG civic. It’s such a fun car to drive, street or track.
- Aurornis 11mo agoThe headline isn’t really true. The K series of engines has been in production for 25 years but it has been redesigned along the way. The article mentions this further down: > The K20C is Honda's current-generation of the K-Series range, upgraded to deliver strong real-world efficiency and long-term reliability across the Honda and Acura catalogs. It's also a redesign that meets stricter global emissions rules and tighter thermal demands that come with modern turbocharging. The original K20A has been out of production for a long time. Each iteration of the engine shares a lot in common with the previous iteration, but the redesigns have been significant enough that I wouldn’t say it’s accurate to claim that one engine has been in production for 25 years.
- bluGill 11mo agoWhat criteria should we use to decide if redesigns are significant enough to not claim it is the same engine?
- pixl97 11mo agoParts compatibility?
- karlgkk 11mo agoEngine of Theseus
- Aurornis 11mo agoWhen Honda changes the letter on the end of the motor code, that’s a good indication: They started with K20A and now it’s K20C, there was a K20Z and so on. It’s actually very common for engine series to span decades, even though this article is presenting it like it’s an unusual achievement. Chevy has the LS, Subaru with the EJ, Mitsubishi with the 4G.
- veunes 11mo agoI think the article's broader point still stands: Honda built a platform with enough foresight and flexibility that it could be continuously refined rather than scrapped and replaced every few years
- DeathArrow 11mo agoSome Diesel engines like VW 1.9 TDI PD were incredibly reliable. Still they wouldn't be legal today because of EU legislation.
- bArray 11mo agoThe Volvo modular engine is worth a short too, it ran for 26 years [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Modular_Engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Modular_Engine
- skylurk 11mo agoTheir straight five had a nice sound IMO.
- bmurphy1976 11mo agoI strongly suspected it was going to be a Honda before even clicking the link. I traded in my RSX-s many years ago for Cherokee because kids. I miss that car, that was a lovely engine even though the low-end torque was a bit anemic.
- veunes 11mo agoThat engine had character
- veunes 11mo agoWhat's impressive isn't just the longevity, but how gracefully it's evolved over two decades while still feeling relevant in today's turbocharged, emissions-strangled landscape
- carabiner 11mo agoIt's V6 but the 1GR-FE is probably the most reliable small car engine of all time. Easily 500k miles.
- caycep 11mo agoI always thought one of these would fit a Shelby cobra kit car really well but culturally ppl want to stick giant ford v8’s in them
- RickJWagner 11mo agoApproaching Plymouth Prowler territory.
- RickJWagner 11mo agoI just sold my 2005 CRV with the same 4. At 170,000 miles, the engine burned no oil, started first crank every time, moved the car adequately, and got 25 mpg in an suv. I replaced it with a Corolla hybrid. It gets 60 mpg. I have expectations of longevity for this one, too.
- 1970-01-01 11mo ago"Engine failure" is something everyone thought was a last century problem, yet it's back. Some blame extra thin oils, and some are pointing to cheap parts (ex. plastic manifolds and plastic timing guides). There are now engine lawsuits in 2015-2025 model vehicles from all the big vehicle manufacturers, with new failures clustering in late models. They literally don't make them like they used to.
- hephaes7us 11mo agoIntuitively I feel like it's something like the light bulb. For a while, bulbs had to meet efficiency standards. These standards were configured such that they didn't technically exclude incandescent bulbs, however, for an incandescent bulb to comply, it would have to be driven hard and thus comparatively short-lived. (for context, incandescent bulbs last something like 4x as long if you let them be 10% dimmer)
- mouth 11mo agoI have 3x 100watt lightbulbs in a single fixture that have been running strong for years. The secret? I keep them dimmed by ~20%. Longevity wasn’t the intent, though, I just like them dimmer and warmer. A pleasant side effect nonetheless.
- Schiendelman 11mo agoEngine lawsuits from "all the big vehicle manufacturers" - while I don't like the guy, Teslas don't have engine failure lawsuits.
- lisbbb 11mo agoMy Acura V6 got recalled due to main bearings being out of spec. I still haven't taken it in for that because the damn thing runs perfect and I don't want them to mess that up. But Honda, uh, did they forget how to build engines the past few years?
- shadowgovt 11mo agoEven before clicking through, I said to myself "... and it's made by Honda." I don't know precisely what special sauce they have, but while I've parted with a couple of Hondas over the years due to rust or accessory breakdown (and one, sadly, to a crash; hey, I know the Fit has a reputation as a deathtrap, but it saved my life), I've never had one give me engine trouble. Their starter has a very iconic sound too; I'm a little surprised marketing has never seemed to catch onto that. You can identify the sound of a Honda starting up in a parking lot.
- t1234s 11mo agoFrom my experience the K20 is indestructible.
- Lwerewolf 11mo agoGoogle "K-series Cam lobe pitting". Anyways, nice engines, but you don't need something to be exceptionally reliable to keep it in production for 25 years.
- Animats 11mo agoThis little 20HP one-cylinder Diesel engine [1] powers much of third world agriculture. The original design seems to have come from Shanghai Engine Company in 1953, and is still manufactured by multiple companies. It's water-cooled, but non-recirculating; you have to fill the water tank when you fill the fuel tank. No electrical components at all. Starts with a hand crank. Over 75 years of production of that design. It's the AK-47 of engines. [1] https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Quality-Manufacture-diesel-Engine-Single_1601404018522.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Quality-Manufact...
- sidewndr46 11mo agoThat's rather peculiar. Was this a project of the CCP or was it derived from some other design?
- Animats 11mo agoIt came out at a time when Shanghai Diesel Engine Company was totally government owned. Shanghai Diesel Engine Co., Ltd. (SDEC) originated from the Shanghai Diesel Engine Factory, founded in 1947 under the name Wusong Manufacturing Plant of the China Agricultural Machinery Company, where it produced a trial batch of 5 HP gasoline engines. After the founding of the People’s Republic of China, the factory was renamed Wusong Machinery Plant, which later began mass-producing a single-cylinder, horizontal 12 HP diesel engine operating at 750 rpm. In August 1953, it officially became Shanghai Diesel Engine Factory and started independently designing and manufacturing diesel engines.[1] That's the engine - that little 12HP single-cylinder horizontal Diesel engine. It's up to 20HP now; there's been progress in 70 years. Here's a full teardown and overhaul.[2] It doesn't seem to resemble any common US, UK, Japanese, or German diesel engine of the 1940s. All those countries built small Diesels in that period, but none are close to the Chinese design. Don't know who the designer was, though. If you asked SDEC, they'd probably tell you. [1] https://www.chinadieselgen.com/en/history-of-shanghai-diesel-engine.html https://www.chinadieselgen.com/en/history-of-shanghai-diesel... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voev_QmZnYs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voev_QmZnYs
- 11mo ago
- buildsjets 11mo agoJapanese cars can be amazingly reliable. My wife drives a 2003 Toyota Celica (a sporty Corolla) and I drive a 2003 Audi A4. They both have about the same miles, around 150k. The A4 has had thousands and thousands of dollars worth things fail the years. There is a lot of extra Audi tech stuff to break of course, but even common things like oil seals and water pumps and wheel bearings just seem to require more frequent maintenance than our Japanese cars. The Toyota, since new, has needed 2 sets of tires and 1 set of brake pads, both normal wear-out items. The air conditioner relay has failed twice, at a cost of ~$15 to replace. The newer part number has a higher amp capacity and seems to be holding up fine since then. The driver side door lock actuator failed once. It almost gets it's preventative maintenance missed, because nothing ever breaks to jog your mind that the car needs to be maintained.
- Ancapistani 11mo agoI would buy a brand new Toyota 22RE today if they still made them.
- ErroneousBosh 11mo agoPeugeot XUD, built from 1982 until the early 2000s, and then still built today as the DW8 which is basically just an XUD9 with a different head suitable for common-rail injection fitted. The Rover V8 that powered the P5, P6, SD1, various Landrovers and Range Rovers up to the mid-2000s, TVRs, Morgans, and so on was first built as the Rover V8 in 1964 and only stopped mass production in 2006 - although blocks are still cast and you can buy a brand new one today. If you do, I don't need to tell you that there's no price tag because you already know what you're getting into. They were based on an earlier Buick design, which makes it all the more hilarious when people freak out about finding an exotic imported engine specialist to work on their Discovery 2 in North America. Go and ask your grandad about old Buick smallblocks...
- cepera 11mo agoRussian LADA Niva is so reliable still in prodiction after ~50 years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva) (No)
- montjoy 11mo agoFunny that no one’s mentioning the air cooled VW boxer engine which had variants manufactured for 70 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_air-cooled_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_air-cooled_engine