5 ms·

I see it's time for the bimonthly reinvention of VirtualBox and VMWare's seamless modes from a few faceless techies on GitHub and designed for people who can't

I see it's time for the bimonthly reinvention of VirtualBox and VMWare's seamless modes from a few faceless techies on GitHub and designed for people who can't be bothered to use WINE or VirtualBox.

prox 11mo ago
As someone who is looking to go Linux, do most windows apps work now through Wine or VirtualBox ? I know Valve did a lot of work for games. It’s been 4 years since I even took a good look at it.
- Jnr 11mo ago
  A lot of them do, but for almost everything there are native alternatives. I haven't used Wine directly in years, only indirectly through Steam.
- SapporoChris 11mo ago
  Most things work great. There are some niche things that do not work so well. Example: SteamVR,Vive VR Hub, some AntiCheat for games.
  - rft 11mo ago
    SteamVR works ok, but last I checked it still performs worse than on Windows. If you are feeling adventurous, you can try a FOSS VR stack [1]. It works for Steam games running Proton and when it works it provides better performance. I had some troubles with it, sometimes you need to switch versions or you get some artifacts in games, or some games just don't work at all. Good thing is, switching between FOSS and SteamVR is as simple as launching either first before starting the VR game in Steam. I guess the Linux VR stack might get a bit of love from Valve for the Steam Frame, so things might improve in the near future. [1] https://lvra.gitlab.io/docs/fossvr/envision/ https://lvra.gitlab.io/docs/fossvr/envision/
    - SapporoChris 11mo ago
      Regarding FOSS VR stack, Unfortunately, WiVRn doesn't support Vive Focus Vision. SteamVR for Linux requires DRM leasing to function and many Linux distros, well... window managers/compositors do not support this. But yes it can work.
- MattPalmer1086 11mo ago
  Just anecdata, but the few things I use via Wine have all worked fine. I use yabridge so I can use windows VSTs in my Linux DAW. Games (if they don't use kernel level anti cheat systems) are all flawless with Proton. But, I honestly don't have a need to use much other windows only software. Almost everything I need to use has Linux versions, or alternatives that fit my needs.
  - wolfi1 11mo ago
    I, for one, use Notepad++ with wine. I'm accustomed to it
  - d-lisp 11mo ago
    I still have problems running some VSTs with yabridge (could be fixed in an afternoon, but it's important that people should know that it's not a plug and play experience).
- mlok 11mo ago
  About games compatibility made possible by Steam, check Proton DB : https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/
- camtarn 11mo ago
  Bit of a mixed bag for me. There are a lot of things that work remarkably well, but I have some issues with GPU performance (Cyberpunk 2077 just doesn't run well on Linux for me, despite running great on Windows on the same PC, and GPU-heavy apps like Insta360 Studio and Topaz Denoise run excruciatingly slow or not at all) and some things just don't work (my audio VST plugins work alright, albeit with some bugs about window position handling, but I can't get some of the licensing apps to work under WINE).
- tiahura 11mo ago
  Office doesn’t.
  - prmoustache 11mo ago
    Office is easy to get rid of on a personal level through alternatives. On a professional level the online office 365 web apps are enough for 99% users. My comoany do not even bother giving us licenses for the desktop apps so linux and windows users are on equal term really.
- ErroneousBosh 11mo ago
  What do you use in Windows? It's probably easier starting there and then working out what you can do about it. Games work great in Proton. Valve has gone all-in on Linux and I suspect before terribly long we'll see more stuff that's SteamOS native, with a compatibility layer for the people who are still using Windows. I would suspect now that most people either play games which will mostly work okay from Steam, or use stuff that just works in a browser (and I'm kind of lumping Electron apps in with that). Then there are things that are never going to work all that well in Wine or have a native Linux port but which might be worth looking into something else for, like switching from Premiere to Resolve for video editing.
- prmoustache 11mo ago
  Bar a few exceptions (gaminh mostly) you'd have a much better experience switching to native linux apps. Most are really good once you get past the resistance to change. It takes a bit of time to get used to some but once you are set you are no less productive. I did the switch 2 decades ago and except for my annual 3 weeks of gaming, I never use wine nor do I use or feel the need for a win VM.
- codingrightnow 11mo ago
  What windows apps do you need? I switched full time to Ubuntu about a month ago and haven't missed a thing. I thought it would be harder, but after some usability configuration changes like how the mouse scrolls, some browser keyboard settings, system font sizes, and logging into a few accounts it has been snag free. Oh and I did install Microsoft fonts. I hate most Linux fonts. The biggest change really is just getting used to new icons. There are several features in Ubuntu I vastly prefer over windows, like window tabs in the file explorer for instance.
  - trimethylpurine 11mo ago
    Windows 11 has tabs in the file explorer by default.
    - 0134340 11mo ago
      So does KDE's Dolphin and many others on Linux. Linux had tabs on file explorers well before Explorer did as well as virtual desktops, app stores, and a few other things that Windows didn't have but later implemented.
      - trimethylpurine 11mo ago
        Right. It seems that maybe gp wasn't aware.
- downut 11mo ago
  I hardly want to run windows apps at all, but I have a garmin etrex 32x and I can't for the life of me get garmin windows software to run on wine or linux crossover (something to do with USB) and there is nothing available on linux that can talk to the device. I'd run Windows 10 in a VM but I looked (I think?) pretty carefully and valid Windows licenses seem to be well over $100, cheaper to use a refurbed office desktop. Someone stomp me down and tell me I'm wrong, please.
- encom 11mo ago
  Anything that needs a driver isn't going to work. At my last job I needed to talk to some motor controllers and BMS systems through impressively terrible Windows software using proprietary device drivers. I had to keep a Windows partition around on my machine for this. I did have limited success with QEMU, but I never got it working quite right.
fsh 11mo ago
Except these seamless modes have been broken for many years. Also using a containerized Windows means one doesn't have to fiddle with the insane Windows 11 setup process and TPM issues.
- jopsen 11mo ago
  What is containerized Windows?
  - cgfjtynzdrfht 11mo ago
    It's Windows, in a container. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/windowscontainers/quick-start/run-your-first-container https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/windowscont...
- torginus 11mo ago
  For those of us who have used containerized Windows in prod, it is its on kind of hell
torginus 11mo ago
And unfortunately it has become the norm in open-source to push out shiny-looking projects with pretty logos and UX but shoddy underlying technology and deceptive/overstated claims (looking at you Tauri). Thing thing uses RDP for communication which was designed for remotely administering servers over low speed networks. VirtualBox in contrast integrates at the driver level, and allows you to share the underlying GPU buffers, giving you a native experience that works for things like games or heavy apps. It integrates the Linux filesystem on a driver level as well.
- jstanley 11mo ago
  That's just progress. Things that used to be hard become easy. Things that used to be impossible become hard. Hard things become easy when for example it becomes feasible to connect to RDP instead of mucking about at the driver level. It will be more reliable but less performant.
- mikaraento 11mo ago
  Nit: RDP’s roots are more in multi-user windows like Citrix Metaframe than in remote administration. I’ve found it to perform better than the alternatives (remote X11, VNC, Chrome Remote Desktop) for remote GUIs. Nomachine is the only alternative that was close to its performance. (And before somebody jumps in to correct me - in ancient times X11 performed quite well over the network but modern Linux GUI apps are no longer designed to minimise X11 network traffic)
  - yonatan8070 11mo ago
    From my personal experience (by feel, not scientific), NVIDIA GameStream is way faster than RDP. I used it with Sunshine and Moonlight.
    - Saris 11mo ago
      Things made for game streaming will be more responsive at the tradeoff of massive bandwidth usage in comparison. RDP can work over slow connections reasonably well.
forgetbook 11mo ago
Let's assume good intent and that the problem came up without foreknowledge of the solution (which I think is endemic whether or not it is the case here) How would you reccomend someone discover/decide is faster to learn/learn/implement existing solutions? I'm asking because I'm currently in my "cambrian explosion" phase of homelabbing, so implementing that loop for myself personally will pay dividends.

I see it's time for the bimonthly reinvention of VirtualBox and VMWare's seamless modes from a few faceless techies on GitHub and designed for people who can't be bothered to use WINE or VirtualBox.

prox 11mo ago

As someone who is looking to go Linux, do most windows apps work now through Wine or VirtualBox ? I know Valve did a lot of work for games. It’s been 4 years since I even took a good look at it.

Jnr 11mo ago
A lot of them do, but for almost everything there are native alternatives. I haven't used Wine directly in years, only indirectly through Steam.
SapporoChris 11mo ago
Most things work great. There are some niche things that do not work so well. Example: SteamVR,Vive VR Hub, some AntiCheat for games.
- rft 11mo ago
  SteamVR works ok, but last I checked it still performs worse than on Windows. If you are feeling adventurous, you can try a FOSS VR stack [1]. It works for Steam games running Proton and when it works it provides better performance. I had some troubles with it, sometimes you need to switch versions or you get some artifacts in games, or some games just don't work at all. Good thing is, switching between FOSS and SteamVR is as simple as launching either first before starting the VR game in Steam. I guess the Linux VR stack might get a bit of love from Valve for the Steam Frame, so things might improve in the near future. [1] https://lvra.gitlab.io/docs/fossvr/envision/ https://lvra.gitlab.io/docs/fossvr/envision/
  - SapporoChris 11mo ago
    Regarding FOSS VR stack, Unfortunately, WiVRn doesn't support Vive Focus Vision. SteamVR for Linux requires DRM leasing to function and many Linux distros, well... window managers/compositors do not support this. But yes it can work.
MattPalmer1086 11mo ago
Just anecdata, but the few things I use via Wine have all worked fine. I use yabridge so I can use windows VSTs in my Linux DAW. Games (if they don't use kernel level anti cheat systems) are all flawless with Proton. But, I honestly don't have a need to use much other windows only software. Almost everything I need to use has Linux versions, or alternatives that fit my needs.
- wolfi1 11mo ago
  I, for one, use Notepad++ with wine. I'm accustomed to it
- d-lisp 11mo ago
  I still have problems running some VSTs with yabridge (could be fixed in an afternoon, but it's important that people should know that it's not a plug and play experience).
mlok 11mo ago
About games compatibility made possible by Steam, check Proton DB : https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/
camtarn 11mo ago
Bit of a mixed bag for me. There are a lot of things that work remarkably well, but I have some issues with GPU performance (Cyberpunk 2077 just doesn't run well on Linux for me, despite running great on Windows on the same PC, and GPU-heavy apps like Insta360 Studio and Topaz Denoise run excruciatingly slow or not at all) and some things just don't work (my audio VST plugins work alright, albeit with some bugs about window position handling, but I can't get some of the licensing apps to work under WINE).
tiahura 11mo ago
Office doesn’t.
- prmoustache 11mo ago
  Office is easy to get rid of on a personal level through alternatives. On a professional level the online office 365 web apps are enough for 99% users. My comoany do not even bother giving us licenses for the desktop apps so linux and windows users are on equal term really.
ErroneousBosh 11mo ago
What do you use in Windows? It's probably easier starting there and then working out what you can do about it. Games work great in Proton. Valve has gone all-in on Linux and I suspect before terribly long we'll see more stuff that's SteamOS native, with a compatibility layer for the people who are still using Windows. I would suspect now that most people either play games which will mostly work okay from Steam, or use stuff that just works in a browser (and I'm kind of lumping Electron apps in with that). Then there are things that are never going to work all that well in Wine or have a native Linux port but which might be worth looking into something else for, like switching from Premiere to Resolve for video editing.
prmoustache 11mo ago
Bar a few exceptions (gaminh mostly) you'd have a much better experience switching to native linux apps. Most are really good once you get past the resistance to change. It takes a bit of time to get used to some but once you are set you are no less productive. I did the switch 2 decades ago and except for my annual 3 weeks of gaming, I never use wine nor do I use or feel the need for a win VM.
codingrightnow 11mo ago
What windows apps do you need? I switched full time to Ubuntu about a month ago and haven't missed a thing. I thought it would be harder, but after some usability configuration changes like how the mouse scrolls, some browser keyboard settings, system font sizes, and logging into a few accounts it has been snag free. Oh and I did install Microsoft fonts. I hate most Linux fonts. The biggest change really is just getting used to new icons. There are several features in Ubuntu I vastly prefer over windows, like window tabs in the file explorer for instance.
- trimethylpurine 11mo ago
  Windows 11 has tabs in the file explorer by default.
  - 0134340 11mo ago
    So does KDE's Dolphin and many others on Linux. Linux had tabs on file explorers well before Explorer did as well as virtual desktops, app stores, and a few other things that Windows didn't have but later implemented.
    - trimethylpurine 11mo ago
      Right. It seems that maybe gp wasn't aware.
downut 11mo ago
I hardly want to run windows apps at all, but I have a garmin etrex 32x and I can't for the life of me get garmin windows software to run on wine or linux crossover (something to do with USB) and there is nothing available on linux that can talk to the device. I'd run Windows 10 in a VM but I looked (I think?) pretty carefully and valid Windows licenses seem to be well over $100, cheaper to use a refurbed office desktop. Someone stomp me down and tell me I'm wrong, please.
encom 11mo ago
Anything that needs a driver isn't going to work. At my last job I needed to talk to some motor controllers and BMS systems through impressively terrible Windows software using proprietary device drivers. I had to keep a Windows partition around on my machine for this. I did have limited success with QEMU, but I never got it working quite right.

fsh 11mo ago

Except these seamless modes have been broken for many years. Also using a containerized Windows means one doesn't have to fiddle with the insane Windows 11 setup process and TPM issues.

jopsen 11mo ago
What is containerized Windows?
- cgfjtynzdrfht 11mo ago
  It's Windows, in a container. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/windowscontainers/quick-start/run-your-first-container https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/windowscont...
torginus 11mo ago
For those of us who have used containerized Windows in prod, it is its on kind of hell

torginus 11mo ago

And unfortunately it has become the norm in open-source to push out shiny-looking projects with pretty logos and UX but shoddy underlying technology and deceptive/overstated claims (looking at you Tauri). Thing thing uses RDP for communication which was designed for remotely administering servers over low speed networks. VirtualBox in contrast integrates at the driver level, and allows you to share the underlying GPU buffers, giving you a native experience that works for things like games or heavy apps. It integrates the Linux filesystem on a driver level as well.

jstanley 11mo ago
That's just progress. Things that used to be hard become easy. Things that used to be impossible become hard. Hard things become easy when for example it becomes feasible to connect to RDP instead of mucking about at the driver level. It will be more reliable but less performant.
mikaraento 11mo ago
Nit: RDP’s roots are more in multi-user windows like Citrix Metaframe than in remote administration. I’ve found it to perform better than the alternatives (remote X11, VNC, Chrome Remote Desktop) for remote GUIs. Nomachine is the only alternative that was close to its performance. (And before somebody jumps in to correct me - in ancient times X11 performed quite well over the network but modern Linux GUI apps are no longer designed to minimise X11 network traffic)
- yonatan8070 11mo ago
  From my personal experience (by feel, not scientific), NVIDIA GameStream is way faster than RDP. I used it with Sunshine and Moonlight.
  - Saris 11mo ago
    Things made for game streaming will be more responsive at the tradeoff of massive bandwidth usage in comparison. RDP can work over slow connections reasonably well.

forgetbook 11mo ago

Let's assume good intent and that the problem came up without foreknowledge of the solution (which I think is endemic whether or not it is the case here) How would you reccomend someone discover/decide is faster to learn/learn/implement existing solutions? I'm asking because I'm currently in my "cambrian explosion" phase of homelabbing, so implementing that loop for myself personally will pay dividends.