3 ms·

I have a pet theory that the reason certain men are homophobic is because they're terrified that another man is looking at them the same way they look at women.

• tonyhart7 10mo ago
  nah, that just projection
• Ferret7446 10mo ago
  Perhaps but I think it's just a normal ick response. People instinctively steer clear of "weird" or "perceived to be dirty" things even if it's illogical. (No matter how much some try to gaslight, homosexuality is abnormal. Note that abnormal != wrong. The former is a factual statement and the latter is a subjective/moral one, though for better or worse most of the globe does still treat it negatively and it's only in the social bubbles that we're in where it's accepted)
  • stopping 10mo ago
    Abnormal isn't a good word to use here since it connotates an undesirable condition, implying a need for correction. Atypical, non-standard, or unconventional are more neutral in tone, so given your desire for a non-subjective word I'd recommend these instead.
    • LexiMax 10mo ago
      Meanwhile, my original comment was more intended as commentary on the pervasiveness of leering. Of course, it's an unprovable conjecture - but it sure would explain a few things.
    • kikokikokiko 10mo ago
      If something falls out of the center of the normal distribution, it's by definition abnormal. Once again, that doesn't make it bad per se. But trying to police perfectly good words just makes people become more antagonizing to the position you want to defend.
      • BoiledCabbage 10mo ago
        > If something falls out of the center of the normal distribution, it's by definition abnormal. Once again, that doesn't make it bad per se. But trying to police perfectly good words just makes people become more antagonizing to the position you want to defend. I mean why do people even post something like that? It takes 2 seconds to look up the definition of abnormal. It's it really not knowing, it's is it (what I believe) trying to sneak in their moral judgements behind a veneer of supposed "neutrality"? > Abnormal - deviating from what is normal or usual, typically in a way that is undesirable or worrying.
        • spankibalt 10mo ago
          > "[...] is it (what I believe) trying to sneak in their moral judgements behind a veneer of supposed 'neutrality'?" Yes, that's precisely what it is. Moral judgements based on outdated ("conservative", especially clerical) understandings of the world, wrapped in some delusional sense of "objectivity". Only the scientifically and philosophically illiterate fall for it. In German, we call it Bauernfängerei (swizzling, duping; lit. "pawn catching").
      • stopping 10mo ago
        Very few people would agree that red hair is "abnormal". Why do you think that people in general are more likely to describe homosexuality as "abnormal" when the prevalence of homosexuality is roughly on par with that of red hair?
      • freehorse 10mo ago
        What’s the normal distribution here? If attraction to men forms a normal distribution, it makes the argument weaker. If you are making things up, at least make them up well.
        • kikokikokiko 10mo ago
          Yes, the analogy to the bell curve doesn't fit this use case very well, I didn't noticed it before. But the point still stands: non heterosexual behaviour is a tiny minority compared to the norm. So, abnormal is a perfectly good word to describe non-heterosexual behaviour. Once again, it doesn't make it bad per se. I just can't stand word police, which is just another facet of thought police.
    • spankibalt 10mo ago
      Abnormal is a completely unscientific and immoral word to use in the context of consentual sexual behaviors for it is factually wrong (see the distribution of homosexual or bisexual behaviors in mammal species including humans), and also invoking a moral presciptive by declaration "what should be normal" via telling other people what "is not normal". You fall into the same trap ("non-standard", "atypical"); you just stepped on the euphemism treadmill.
  • fenomas 10mo ago
    > No matter how much some try to gaslight, homosexuality is abnormal This is an abjectly silly thing to say, and people who push back on it are not gaslighting. Homosexuality occurs naturally and it's not even rare - it's far more common than red hair, for example. Calling something like that "abnormal" isn't in the domain of fact, it's purely a side-effect of what you label "normal".
  • the_gipsy 10mo ago
    It's not abnormal. Statistically, you don't call anything "abnormal". Neither biologically, nor "naturalistically", there are a million things we all do, that are not "normal" in that sense and we don't call it abnormal.
• imtringued 10mo ago
  No it has more to do with rigid gender roles. Women expect men to be strong, independent and (sexually) dominant. Being dominated by another man is a sign of weakness. A lot of women also do not leave any room for nuance. There is zero tolerance. Anything with a penis is bad, even transwomen. You could be bisexual with a strong preference for women, but you will still be put in the "100% gay exclusively for men" box. Homophobia arises from seeing homosexuality as a threat to your heterosexuality. The LGBT people are coming after your coveted "straight" status and try to infect you with the "gay" virus which makes it harder to attract a woman. Basically it's the male equivalent of being "deflowered".