7 ms·

It took me until my mid-30s to feel like I had crossed a threshold in processing grief and trauma from my late teen years. I was capable of adult behavior long

It took me until my mid-30s to feel like I had crossed a threshold in processing grief and trauma from my late teen years. I was capable of adult behavior long before then, but my concept of the world and how I fit into it (or don't) was still childlike in many ways on a fundamental level. Like most such things, I'd expect this to be a spectrum, and I may be somewhat of a late bloomer. Regardless, I have a theory that there is somewhat of a protective effect operating here. Believing in a simpler reality which involved future wish fulfillment for me - however unrealistic it was - may have helped me survive. Coming to acceptance of what I see as a more accurate but far bleaker perspective required me to grow strong enough to sustain my will to live despite that perspective. Biggest lesson learned: I could not do it without at least one other person (or more) who I trust almost 100% with all of myself. Realizing that going it alone is futile is definitely part of what I consider becoming an adult, and it can take a long time to fully accept that.

frikskit 11mo ago
Can you elaborate on the last point? As someone going through a very hard time with my wife at the moment I’d love any words of wisdom.
- treis 11mo ago
  I'd hit up a solo therapist. I went through a hard time with my wife and turns out she just sucks. Be warned that she sucked a lot worse in the divorce and states differ wildly in how biased they are against fathers if you have kids. It was helpful to figure out some of my stuff and deal with a bunch of trauma.
  - Cthulhu_ 11mo ago
    Or else books / online communities. I can't recommend using ChatGPT for this kind of help but it can be used to validate your experiences, provide a different experience, and if you ask it, point you in the right direction. For example, if you explain it (or Reddit) an interpersonal situation it can break it down and e.g. point out certain behaviours or boundary crossings. But I would be careful, as these chatbots will by default put you in the right, even when you aren't.
    - lazide 11mo ago
      Even therapists are a mixed bag - and some are legitimately dangerous - but in my experience at least 100x safer than a chatbot or just books. If for no other reason than a chatbot can’t call you out on your bullshit, because it has no hope of telling what is or is not bullshit. And that is key. And has no actual feelings, remorse, license to lose, etc. etc.
      - cies 11mo ago
        etc. etc. responsibility. may also be lacking in therapist. is certainly lacking in LLM
      - ToucanLoucan 11mo ago
        I found a chatbot helpful when I explicitly requested it, in detail, to argue the other person's side with me. I basically approached it as "I want advice on this particular conflict," I explained who the other party was, I explained my best summary of the situation as a whole, and I went back and forth. I found it cathartic because I could basically argue with that person about it, without asking that person to do emotional labor or be subjected to my criticisms of where I felt they were wrong. Ultimately I landed on several points I did eventually go to that person with, I dropped several others that the chatbot pointed out weren't really something it was fair to criticize them for, and I think our friendship is overall better for it. I don't think there was anything revolutionary there, it's basically journaling with an LLM, but it was more efficient if nothing else. Edit: I would also caveat that I've attended a lot of therapy, individual and couples, so numerous concepts that some people may not know, things like emotional labor, boundaries, healthy communication, etc. are already very familiar concepts to me. So, I wouldn't recommend a chatbot as a FIRST stop? But if you've attended a lot of therapy and already know a fair bit about how your own feelings work, I think it can help, as long as you explicitly request that it doesn't just glaze you continuously.
      - mattbettinson 11mo ago
        Yeah I like LLMs to dump feelings/stuff and explore different angles of viewing it. It’s like CBT by tons of angles of attack
  - dr-detroit 11mo ago
    [dead]
  - butlike 11mo ago
    Glad you got through it. Or, if you're going through it, glad the worst of the days are behind you. Congratulations.
    - treis 11mo ago
      Thanks unfortunately neither of those are the case. Things are quite bad (haven't spoken with the kid since Christmas) and probably have not yet hit the nadir.
- ed4bb9fb7c 11mo ago
  Sorry I don’t know your circumstances but “Walking on Eggshells” by Langford has literally saved me. The only wisdom I can offer: other people emotions don’t have to control yours (despite what they tell you). The best take on this that I know: be like a goose - they don’t get wet, just shake it off. And take care of yourself!
  - circlefavshape 11mo ago
    A novel? You sure you're talking about the right book?
    - gmassman 11mo ago
      Fiction can reveal a lot of real wisdom if you’re open to receiving it.
    - ed4bb9fb7c 11mo ago
      I made a mistake. Stop Walking On Eggshells by Mason & Kreger is the one I meant.
  - thisislife2 11mo ago
    I recommend the book The Road Less Travelled - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/254865.The_Road_Less_Travelled https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/254865.The_Road_Less_Tra... ... It's an easy read with a mix of psychology and traditional wisdom that still holds much relevance.
  - ed4bb9fb7c 11mo ago
    Not sure where I was looking. Sibling comments are right. The correct title is “Stop walking on eggshells” by mason & kreger.
- baq 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - lotsofpulp 11mo ago
    > Please note this is n=1. Then why use the plural terms “women” and “they”?
    - IAmBroom 11mo ago
      Because: bigotry.
  - sillysaurusx 11mo ago
    That’s not a woman thing, that’s a person thing. Your advice is good but it would equally apply to me, and I’m a man.
- sillysaurusx 11mo ago
  I’m going to go against the grain here. The parent’s advice is toxic and mistaken. It’s a road to codependency. I’ve been with my wife 20 years, married 15. I would have said the same thing they said — I can’t do it all on my own, I need someone else. Rubbish. And also dangerous rubbish. I’ve been weak for a long time simply because I hadn’t taken myself seriosuly. I literally believed that I couldn’t do it alone, which was wrong. It was unfair to my wife to use her as an emotional support when she didn’t want to be. She’s been there for me a lot over the years. But when you tell someone that you can’t do it without them, it’s no longer their decision, and that’s unfair. Both to her and to me. Please read Codependent No More, and especially Lost in the Shuffle by Subby. (I’ve identified a lot more with the latter.) The point is, it’s okay to be having a rough time with your wife. Let go. Let her do her own thing. Stop caring so much. It’s okay for her to be upset and not want to help/have sex/go to an event/involve you/whatever the problem may be. The reason it feels rough is because you personally let it feel rough. Once I adopted that mindset, it became so much easier. And ironically my marriage improved. Meds are also important. Make sure you’re on a good dosage of antidepressants if you need them, and a mood stabilizer. I recently started Latuda and dropped Seroquel per my psychiatrist, and it’s been night and day. Lastly, keep trying to talk to people about your problems. I ended up reaching out to a random person on Twitter. They were kind and to my surprise happy to listen. It was one of the main reasons I was able to get through it all. The best person to talk to is a therapist, though I’d be happy to listen till you can find one. You’re strong. You need to believe that. And you’re strong independently of your family or anyone else. Give yourself credit for getting as far as you have; that part has been important too.
  - KittenInABox 11mo ago
    There is a huge difference between acknowledging that humans are an inherently social species that usually needs comfort and psychologically benefits from an intimate relationship and straight up codependency, where you violate the boundaries of each other and thereby take away psychological safety.
    - sillysaurusx 11mo ago
      I agree! The point is, don’t use your wife for your comfort and psychology benefits. Use the other people in your life. Especially when you’re having marital problems.
- slfnflctd 11mo ago
  I have had many difficult times with my current S.O. over 15+ years. Everyone's situation is different, but I can say that in even a semi-healthy relationship, time heals many wounds, greater mutual understanding grows, hard edges can soften and people will often surprise you. You can also learn things you could improve about yourself which you were previously blind to. The sense of stability this reinforces is immensely helpful. On the other hand, I also have an ex-- and while I wish I would have ended that differently in hindsight, it did need to end for my mental health to improve. If you are with someone who abuses you, cannot be reasoned with and never admits fault, it is wise to plan several exit strategies.
- catlikesshrimp 11mo ago
  Every person is different. Some people don't need a stable relation, some people *can't have* a stable relation, some people thrive with it. Every relation is different. A successful relation is built when both side are compatible. What does compatible mean, though? Some relations are swingers. Some relations follow strict religious rules. Some people need taking a beating, and I don't mean an erotic one. In None of this cases I am meaning they are codependent, and then there are successful codependent relations. The only constant I have seen is that every successful relation has discussions, fights, momments when they considered separating. And there is compromise, in every case. I am sorry I don't have any specific advice. Good luck
- thisislife2 11mo ago
  Consider posting on https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/ https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/ . Note however that they don't allow posts about identifying problems - e.g. Why am I having a hard time with my wife?. Rather, you are expected to know what is your specific problem and seek solution to that. Don't go to Reddit - the standard advice there will be "your wife / husband is a toxic partner, run and get a divorce".
nine_zeros 11mo ago
[dead]
zwnow 11mo ago
> Realizing that going it alone is futile is definitely part of what I consider becoming an adult Weird, for me its the complete opposite. I accepted to live alone for the rest of my life because a) I am undesired and I wont make a move. b) I barely met people I would even consider it being worth talking to, I need to feel equal on a cognitive level and not a lot of people match that requirement. I either feel lesser or above.
- nradov 11mo ago
  Why are you so arrogant that you feel most others aren't on your cognitive level? Most likely you're not actually as smart as you think you are.
  - zwnow 11mo ago
    Did you read until the end? I wrote I either feel lesser or above. It works both ways. Arrogance is lived experience, I met a lot of people in my lifetime.
  - npinsker 11mo ago
    They said that they either feel lesser or above. (Though this might point at a different problem; I'd hope one could enjoy the company, really enjoy it, of both sets of people.)
  - erfgh 11mo ago
    He said that can feel either lesser or above so there's nothing arrogant about that.
    - butlike 11mo ago
      Not to sound like a complete asshole, but saying your special is arrogant. Imagine everyone feels like that.
  - lucianbr 11mo ago
    > Why are you so arrogant Assuming they are, just for the sake of the discussion: what kind of answer do you expect to this question? You think someone who is arrogant has a theory of why they are so and are willing to share it? I would expect they are mostly blind to their own arrogance. Can be useful to point it out. I guess it was just a rhetorical question. But it feels weird. Do you think it can possibly do anything else than create hostility?
nradov 11mo ago
A person becomes an adult once they take responsibility for their own actions and the consequences thereof. Many people never reach that status, regardless of age.
- IAmBroom 11mo ago
  It's not helpful to redefine terms separately from the article.
- butlike 11mo ago
  It's not so tersely defined as that, I don't think. It's kinda like wax in a lava lamp of information. Some gloops, the others glop, until eventually you gloop and glop and feel confident. Rigid labels and markers on the spectrum don't really hold universally true, I'm finding.
mapontosevenths 11mo ago
> Biggest lesson learned: I could not do it without at least one other person (or more) who I trust almost 100% with all of myself. Its strange. The biggest lesson I learned was almost the opposite: I learned that the meaning of life has nothing to do with other people or their estimation of me. It has more to do with who you are when there is nobody else around. Other people often act as a sort of fun house mirror that distort and reflect back a false image. Learning to be happy alone and seeing through the pleasant lies is absolutely vital to becoming an adult.
- slfnflctd 11mo ago
  I feel like we need both. There are mental/emotional experiences I have on the regular which there is no point in trying to communicate to someone else but still bring me great benefit. We need to value our alone time, absolutely. We also ultimately derive pretty much everything we most value in life from our interactions with other lives, which is why I think it's so important to develop high-trust relationships with at least one or two other people so we can continue to grapple with the fact that we all have different perspectives, weaknesses and strengths and can usually learn more and get significantly more things done when we cooperate than when we're running solo. Which requires trust. YMMV, of course. Some people can go build a cabin in the woods and live off the land and spend all their free time meditating and be perfectly happy. But that's not most of us. And even those people eventually get too old to keep taking care of themselves.
  - mapontosevenths 11mo ago
    > We also ultimately derive pretty much everything we most value in life from our interactions with other lives This implies that almost everything you value is something transient that can, and one day will, be taken away. If not willingly, then by death. Doesn't it make more sense to have a few core values that don't depend on others and then build relationships and all the rest upon that foundation? To steal from Alan Watts, lets use an example. Imagine a whirlpool in a clear stream. It has great beauty and takes intricate forms as it dances a whirls. You sit beside it and enjoy watching it for hours. Now ask yourself is it the particular group a H2O molecules that make up the whirlpool that you love? If so it will be gone in an instant, and each moment for you will become another in a series of great losses as the molecules are swept away by new ones. Is it the pattern the water makes that you love? No, the pattern itself changes every moment as well. The change itself is part of what mesmerizes you. What you love about the whirlpool is something deeper, and more fundamental, something that change can't take from you. That's the thing you have to build your appreciation of life from. Other people are just the molecules and ripples. > Some people can go build a cabin in the woods and live off the land and spend all their free time meditating and be perfectly happy. I would argue that a man who can't stand to be alone with himself is either a bad man who is a good judge of character, or an incomplete person. I don't mean that everyone should go live alone, just that everyone should be able to. You're probably right that most people can't do it, but the majority is often wrong.
motbus3 11mo ago
Quite similar experience here. Actually it took me few more events to be able to reflect and understand that looking from another perspective.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
SoftTalker 11mo ago
I did not feel fully adult until my parents passed on. I was in my early 40s at that point. Then I knew that there was no fallback; it was all up to me.
- jhanschoo 11mo ago
  Don't you still have close friends to lean on when the going gets tough, and your friends, you?
moomoo11 11mo ago
Sounds like you cannot bear making yourself the sole person responsible and need to involve more people in your decision making cope. Not sure if that’s healthy tbh, just sounds like you don’t like shouldering blame for responsibilities. So if you were childlike before in your thinking I guess at least you’re a college student now.
- JoeyJoJoJr 11mo ago
  The parent comment was talking about having trauma. They were probably once in a position where they very much weren’t healthy, and through the gradual gaining of awareness came to the realization that they needed help. If I had a broken leg, it’s obviously not going to help trying to fix it myself. Why would it be a stretch that unhealthy thought patterns, which by their nature are self reinforcing, not require an external influence to help break the feedback loops?

frikskit 11mo ago

Can you elaborate on the last point? As someone going through a very hard time with my wife at the moment I’d love any words of wisdom.

treis 11mo ago
I'd hit up a solo therapist. I went through a hard time with my wife and turns out she just sucks. Be warned that she sucked a lot worse in the divorce and states differ wildly in how biased they are against fathers if you have kids. It was helpful to figure out some of my stuff and deal with a bunch of trauma.
- Cthulhu_ 11mo ago
  Or else books / online communities. I can't recommend using ChatGPT for this kind of help but it can be used to validate your experiences, provide a different experience, and if you ask it, point you in the right direction. For example, if you explain it (or Reddit) an interpersonal situation it can break it down and e.g. point out certain behaviours or boundary crossings. But I would be careful, as these chatbots will by default put you in the right, even when you aren't.
  - lazide 11mo ago
    Even therapists are a mixed bag - and some are legitimately dangerous - but in my experience at least 100x safer than a chatbot or just books. If for no other reason than a chatbot can’t call you out on your bullshit, because it has no hope of telling what is or is not bullshit. And that is key. And has no actual feelings, remorse, license to lose, etc. etc.
    - cies 11mo ago
      etc. etc. responsibility. may also be lacking in therapist. is certainly lacking in LLM
    - ToucanLoucan 11mo ago
      I found a chatbot helpful when I explicitly requested it, in detail, to argue the other person's side with me. I basically approached it as "I want advice on this particular conflict," I explained who the other party was, I explained my best summary of the situation as a whole, and I went back and forth. I found it cathartic because I could basically argue with that person about it, without asking that person to do emotional labor or be subjected to my criticisms of where I felt they were wrong. Ultimately I landed on several points I did eventually go to that person with, I dropped several others that the chatbot pointed out weren't really something it was fair to criticize them for, and I think our friendship is overall better for it. I don't think there was anything revolutionary there, it's basically journaling with an LLM, but it was more efficient if nothing else. Edit: I would also caveat that I've attended a lot of therapy, individual and couples, so numerous concepts that some people may not know, things like emotional labor, boundaries, healthy communication, etc. are already very familiar concepts to me. So, I wouldn't recommend a chatbot as a FIRST stop? But if you've attended a lot of therapy and already know a fair bit about how your own feelings work, I think it can help, as long as you explicitly request that it doesn't just glaze you continuously.
    - mattbettinson 11mo ago
      Yeah I like LLMs to dump feelings/stuff and explore different angles of viewing it. It’s like CBT by tons of angles of attack
- dr-detroit 11mo ago
  [dead]
- butlike 11mo ago
  Glad you got through it. Or, if you're going through it, glad the worst of the days are behind you. Congratulations.
  - treis 11mo ago
    Thanks unfortunately neither of those are the case. Things are quite bad (haven't spoken with the kid since Christmas) and probably have not yet hit the nadir.
ed4bb9fb7c 11mo ago
Sorry I don’t know your circumstances but “Walking on Eggshells” by Langford has literally saved me. The only wisdom I can offer: other people emotions don’t have to control yours (despite what they tell you). The best take on this that I know: be like a goose - they don’t get wet, just shake it off. And take care of yourself!
- circlefavshape 11mo ago
  A novel? You sure you're talking about the right book?
  - gmassman 11mo ago
    Fiction can reveal a lot of real wisdom if you’re open to receiving it.
  - ed4bb9fb7c 11mo ago
    I made a mistake. Stop Walking On Eggshells by Mason & Kreger is the one I meant.
- thisislife2 11mo ago
  I recommend the book The Road Less Travelled - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/254865.The_Road_Less_Travelled https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/254865.The_Road_Less_Tra... ... It's an easy read with a mix of psychology and traditional wisdom that still holds much relevance.
- ed4bb9fb7c 11mo ago
  Not sure where I was looking. Sibling comments are right. The correct title is “Stop walking on eggshells” by mason & kreger.
baq 11mo ago
[flagged]
- lotsofpulp 11mo ago
  > Please note this is n=1. Then why use the plural terms “women” and “they”?
  - IAmBroom 11mo ago
    Because: bigotry.
- sillysaurusx 11mo ago
  That’s not a woman thing, that’s a person thing. Your advice is good but it would equally apply to me, and I’m a man.
sillysaurusx 11mo ago
I’m going to go against the grain here. The parent’s advice is toxic and mistaken. It’s a road to codependency. I’ve been with my wife 20 years, married 15. I would have said the same thing they said — I can’t do it all on my own, I need someone else. Rubbish. And also dangerous rubbish. I’ve been weak for a long time simply because I hadn’t taken myself seriosuly. I literally believed that I couldn’t do it alone, which was wrong. It was unfair to my wife to use her as an emotional support when she didn’t want to be. She’s been there for me a lot over the years. But when you tell someone that you can’t do it without them, it’s no longer their decision, and that’s unfair. Both to her and to me. Please read Codependent No More, and especially Lost in the Shuffle by Subby. (I’ve identified a lot more with the latter.) The point is, it’s okay to be having a rough time with your wife. Let go. Let her do her own thing. Stop caring so much. It’s okay for her to be upset and not want to help/have sex/go to an event/involve you/whatever the problem may be. The reason it feels rough is because you personally let it feel rough. Once I adopted that mindset, it became so much easier. And ironically my marriage improved. Meds are also important. Make sure you’re on a good dosage of antidepressants if you need them, and a mood stabilizer. I recently started Latuda and dropped Seroquel per my psychiatrist, and it’s been night and day. Lastly, keep trying to talk to people about your problems. I ended up reaching out to a random person on Twitter. They were kind and to my surprise happy to listen. It was one of the main reasons I was able to get through it all. The best person to talk to is a therapist, though I’d be happy to listen till you can find one. You’re strong. You need to believe that. And you’re strong independently of your family or anyone else. Give yourself credit for getting as far as you have; that part has been important too.
- KittenInABox 11mo ago
  There is a huge difference between acknowledging that humans are an inherently social species that usually needs comfort and psychologically benefits from an intimate relationship and straight up codependency, where you violate the boundaries of each other and thereby take away psychological safety.
  - sillysaurusx 11mo ago
    I agree! The point is, don’t use your wife for your comfort and psychology benefits. Use the other people in your life. Especially when you’re having marital problems.
slfnflctd 11mo ago
I have had many difficult times with my current S.O. over 15+ years. Everyone's situation is different, but I can say that in even a semi-healthy relationship, time heals many wounds, greater mutual understanding grows, hard edges can soften and people will often surprise you. You can also learn things you could improve about yourself which you were previously blind to. The sense of stability this reinforces is immensely helpful. On the other hand, I also have an ex-- and while I wish I would have ended that differently in hindsight, it did need to end for my mental health to improve. If you are with someone who abuses you, cannot be reasoned with and never admits fault, it is wise to plan several exit strategies.
catlikesshrimp 11mo ago
Every person is different. Some people don't need a stable relation, some people *can't have* a stable relation, some people thrive with it. Every relation is different. A successful relation is built when both side are compatible. What does compatible mean, though? Some relations are swingers. Some relations follow strict religious rules. Some people need taking a beating, and I don't mean an erotic one. In None of this cases I am meaning they are codependent, and then there are successful codependent relations. The only constant I have seen is that every successful relation has discussions, fights, momments when they considered separating. And there is compromise, in every case. I am sorry I don't have any specific advice. Good luck
thisislife2 11mo ago
Consider posting on https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/ https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/ . Note however that they don't allow posts about identifying problems - e.g. Why am I having a hard time with my wife?. Rather, you are expected to know what is your specific problem and seek solution to that. Don't go to Reddit - the standard advice there will be "your wife / husband is a toxic partner, run and get a divorce".

nine_zeros 11mo ago

[dead]

zwnow 11mo ago

> Realizing that going it alone is futile is definitely part of what I consider becoming an adult Weird, for me its the complete opposite. I accepted to live alone for the rest of my life because a) I am undesired and I wont make a move. b) I barely met people I would even consider it being worth talking to, I need to feel equal on a cognitive level and not a lot of people match that requirement. I either feel lesser or above.

nradov 11mo ago
Why are you so arrogant that you feel most others aren't on your cognitive level? Most likely you're not actually as smart as you think you are.
- zwnow 11mo ago
  Did you read until the end? I wrote I either feel lesser or above. It works both ways. Arrogance is lived experience, I met a lot of people in my lifetime.
- npinsker 11mo ago
  They said that they either feel lesser or above. (Though this might point at a different problem; I'd hope one could enjoy the company, really enjoy it, of both sets of people.)
- erfgh 11mo ago
  He said that can feel either lesser or above so there's nothing arrogant about that.
  - butlike 11mo ago
    Not to sound like a complete asshole, but saying your special is arrogant. Imagine everyone feels like that.
- lucianbr 11mo ago
  > Why are you so arrogant Assuming they are, just for the sake of the discussion: what kind of answer do you expect to this question? You think someone who is arrogant has a theory of why they are so and are willing to share it? I would expect they are mostly blind to their own arrogance. Can be useful to point it out. I guess it was just a rhetorical question. But it feels weird. Do you think it can possibly do anything else than create hostility?

nradov 11mo ago

A person becomes an adult once they take responsibility for their own actions and the consequences thereof. Many people never reach that status, regardless of age.

IAmBroom 11mo ago
It's not helpful to redefine terms separately from the article.
butlike 11mo ago
It's not so tersely defined as that, I don't think. It's kinda like wax in a lava lamp of information. Some gloops, the others glop, until eventually you gloop and glop and feel confident. Rigid labels and markers on the spectrum don't really hold universally true, I'm finding.

mapontosevenths 11mo ago

> Biggest lesson learned: I could not do it without at least one other person (or more) who I trust almost 100% with all of myself. Its strange. The biggest lesson I learned was almost the opposite: I learned that the meaning of life has nothing to do with other people or their estimation of me. It has more to do with who you are when there is nobody else around. Other people often act as a sort of fun house mirror that distort and reflect back a false image. Learning to be happy alone and seeing through the pleasant lies is absolutely vital to becoming an adult.

slfnflctd 11mo ago
I feel like we need both. There are mental/emotional experiences I have on the regular which there is no point in trying to communicate to someone else but still bring me great benefit. We need to value our alone time, absolutely. We also ultimately derive pretty much everything we most value in life from our interactions with other lives, which is why I think it's so important to develop high-trust relationships with at least one or two other people so we can continue to grapple with the fact that we all have different perspectives, weaknesses and strengths and can usually learn more and get significantly more things done when we cooperate than when we're running solo. Which requires trust. YMMV, of course. Some people can go build a cabin in the woods and live off the land and spend all their free time meditating and be perfectly happy. But that's not most of us. And even those people eventually get too old to keep taking care of themselves.
- mapontosevenths 11mo ago
  > We also ultimately derive pretty much everything we most value in life from our interactions with other lives This implies that almost everything you value is something transient that can, and one day will, be taken away. If not willingly, then by death. Doesn't it make more sense to have a few core values that don't depend on others and then build relationships and all the rest upon that foundation? To steal from Alan Watts, lets use an example. Imagine a whirlpool in a clear stream. It has great beauty and takes intricate forms as it dances a whirls. You sit beside it and enjoy watching it for hours. Now ask yourself is it the particular group a H2O molecules that make up the whirlpool that you love? If so it will be gone in an instant, and each moment for you will become another in a series of great losses as the molecules are swept away by new ones. Is it the pattern the water makes that you love? No, the pattern itself changes every moment as well. The change itself is part of what mesmerizes you. What you love about the whirlpool is something deeper, and more fundamental, something that change can't take from you. That's the thing you have to build your appreciation of life from. Other people are just the molecules and ripples. > Some people can go build a cabin in the woods and live off the land and spend all their free time meditating and be perfectly happy. I would argue that a man who can't stand to be alone with himself is either a bad man who is a good judge of character, or an incomplete person. I don't mean that everyone should go live alone, just that everyone should be able to. You're probably right that most people can't do it, but the majority is often wrong.

motbus3 11mo ago

Quite similar experience here. Actually it took me few more events to be able to reflect and understand that looking from another perspective.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

SoftTalker 11mo ago

I did not feel fully adult until my parents passed on. I was in my early 40s at that point. Then I knew that there was no fallback; it was all up to me.

jhanschoo 11mo ago
Don't you still have close friends to lean on when the going gets tough, and your friends, you?

moomoo11 11mo ago

Sounds like you cannot bear making yourself the sole person responsible and need to involve more people in your decision making cope. Not sure if that’s healthy tbh, just sounds like you don’t like shouldering blame for responsibilities. So if you were childlike before in your thinking I guess at least you’re a college student now.

JoeyJoJoJr 11mo ago
The parent comment was talking about having trauma. They were probably once in a position where they very much weren’t healthy, and through the gradual gaining of awareness came to the realization that they needed help. If I had a broken leg, it’s obviously not going to help trying to fix it myself. Why would it be a stretch that unhealthy thought patterns, which by their nature are self reinforcing, not require an external influence to help break the feedback loops?