6 ms·

> sideloading It's called installing. Language matters and I see no reason to concede this point in Google's favour.

• cbolton 1y ago
  You can also install through the Play store. Sideloading is more specific.
  • makeitdouble 1y ago
    Would you make the same distinction on a mac when installing Photoshop from the Adobe installer vs installing KeyNote from the MacStore ?
    • cbolton 1y ago
      I'm not too familiar with macOS... How normal/expected is it now to install through the App Store? As mentioned in another comment, for a Linux distribution like Debian there are highly trusted official repositories, and I think using "sideloading" for other sources would make some sense.
      • makeitdouble 1y ago
        On macos I assume most apps are installed outside of the Store, straight from the developper's site. Which would make the Store a "sideloading" channel by that token ? On Linux you have the default package sources, but for instance adding third party sources will still integrate the same with the system, I also never heard someone call installing Go or Java "side loading", though you're getting an installer from the site you need to run on your own. Same way for building from source. IMHO "sideloading" would not apply to any system open enough, where adding stuff from multiple sources is expected from the start.
        • cbolton 1y ago
          > Which would make the Store a "sideloading" channel by that token ? I don't think so, it's still an official channel offered by the OS maker. > adding third party sources will still integrate the same with the system but obviously with a higher risk of breakage since it was not tested while the official release was cooking (at least for Debian the official set of packages in stable is expected to have virtually no conflict issues, but as soon as you add third-party sources all bets are off). > I also never heard someone call installing Go or Java "side loading" neither have I, but I can imagine that in some contexts it could be a useful term. Like "did you sideload Go?" (implicitly asking if you got the third-party release vs installing from the official distribution repository). I'm not saying people say that, but that the term might also make sense in the Linux world. > IMHO "sideloading" would not apply to any system open enough, where adding stuff from multiple sources is expected from the start. Yeah if there's no sense of "main" channels that are more trusted or more stable the term doesn't make sense.
  • devsda 1y ago
    Like hacking, sideloading is now a loaded & misunderstood term. It is considered as something only nerds or bad actors do. Let's just call it alternate install.
    • mrighele 1y ago
      Or manual install.
      • exe34 1y ago
        How about calling the other one "installing from the play store"? installing was there first.
        • miroljub 1y ago
          Exactly. Let's invent a word for "installing from play store". Playstoring? So we can rewrite the story to something like: Google wants to prohibit app installation on Android phones. The only way to get an app would be through playstoring.
          • exe34 1y ago
            how about "dogmatize" - I dogmatized this app from the play store.
          • the_gipsy 1y ago
            Restricted installing
        • fainpul 1y ago
          Corpoloading
          • amelius 1y ago
            Nannyloading
    • 1y ago
  • engeljohnb 1y ago
    I can install on my Fedora laptop through dnf. I've never felt like I needed a new word to describe downloading and running an AppImage. Why would phones be different?
    • tonyhart7 1y ago
      well because its not allowed to "install" from third party sources (atleast not yet) google has control on their android ecosystem behave, same reason why its not allowed in playstation or xbox or ios
      • engeljohnb 1y ago
        The whole selling point of Android up until now was that it allowed you to install any app you want. The point of the above comment is that Google intentionally introduced the word "sideload" to make "installing an app on your own device which Google did not curate" sound more risky and sinister than it is, and I'm inclined to agree. I "make" coffee on my keurig. If Keurig decides that making any single-serve coffe pods that aren't owned by the Keurig brand is now called "off-brewing," I'd dismiss it as ridiculous and continue calling it "making coffee." We should use the language that makes sense, not the language that happens be good PR for google.
        • tonyhart7 1y ago
          "The whole selling point of Android up until now was that it allowed you to install any app you want." we can debate whether this is bad thing or good thing, it would have no ends what matters is reality, the reality is google have the right to change it.
          • engeljohnb 1y ago
            You've changed the subject. We were discussing whether one ought to use Google's term for it, or the term that's been used to describe this action since (I assume) the beginning of personal computing. Not whether Google is legally allowed to make the change. My reason for bringing up the "selling point" was to bring attention to the language -- "You can install any app you want" has always been the common refrain when I see friends get into a debate about IOS vs Android. People are already using the term because it makes the most sense.
• geokon 1y ago
  Doesn't feel like any conspiracy.. Isn't sideloading installing through adb instead of from the system itself? (by clicking on an APK or using an app Store like Xiaomi/Googled/Huawei/Fdroid) "Side" being.. from your computer
  • 24t 1y ago
    Yes but fdroid is facing restrictions while adb is not
    • geokon 1y ago
      sure, google is trying to cash in. not saying theyre nice people. but the handwringing over semantics and suggesting Google has a master plan to abuse vocabular just sounds ridiculous
      • lukan 1y ago
        So you do know, they want to make profit. You also know, what is commonly used for making profit? PR. And they are all about changing the meaning of words, to achieve a certain effect in people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torches_of_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torches_of_Freedom What exactly is ridiculous to the idea, that maybe there was a google meeting where the name was debated and the pro and cons of different names evaluated from their buisness perspective?
  • slightwinder 1y ago
    No, on android, it always meant installing an APK directly, without a store-app. You can use ADB, but you also can just download the APK on your device and install it locally with your browser or filemanager.
• griffzhowl 1y ago
  I agree with the ethos but "banning installing" wouldn't have been correct here. There should be terminology for installing from the source of your choice which doesn't carry the marginal or sinister connotations of "sideloading" though. "Freeloading" would have been a good one but... yeah
  • 24t 1y ago
    I'm not suggesting a drop-in replacement within that context, just that widening the definition of sideloading does us no favours 'installing from beyond the walled garden' would be a nice fit here imo
    • griffzhowl 1y ago
      extramuraloading?
  • graemep 1y ago
    "Freely installing"?
  • cuu508 1y ago
    "banning installing from anywhere but play store"
  • green7ea 1y ago
    Wouldn't it be accurate to say that you can no longer install apps on your phone, only Google can?
    • dpoloncsak 1y ago
      If we're being pedantic, the user still has to perform the final action before the install begins. I think it' more "Google has to allow you to install apps on your phone"
      • LtWorf 1y ago
        And they've never allowed the users to uninstall certain apps. (interestingly the keyboard app is not among these, so my sister has uninstalled it by mistake once)
• estimator7292 1y ago
  Language matters, so don't let google turn sideloading into a dirty word. It was called sideloading before Google was even founded.
  • embedding-shape 1y ago
    My first encounter with "sideloading" I think was loading up a MP3 player with music, for some reason that was called "sideloading" by some people. In that case, "sideloading" was just transferring basically, nothing about installing. But once Android appeared, and there was one Google-approved way of installing applications (Google Store) and one way of installing directly from .apk after enabling "Unknown Sources", then the word started to be used for the second approach. I don't remember if it was Google who started using "sideloading" or the community itself, but regardless, "installing" would be a more understandable word for anyone to use for the processing of installing an application on your phone, as (what I recall to be) the original meaning was just transferring.
    • AdmiralAsshat 1y ago
      > My first encounter with "sideloading" I think was loading up a MP3 player with music, for some reason that was called "sideloading" by some people. In that case, "sideloading" was just transferring basically, nothing about installing. Probably influenced by the original iPod, which really wanted you to sync your iPod with your iTunes library (conveniently directing you to purchase all of your music from Apple's platform). "Sideloading" referred to the few extra steps to get your computer to simply expose the iPod as a removable storage device and drag-and-drop your mp3s over that way. It wouldn't have made sense in the context of other mp3 players, because for many of the ones I remember (like my Creative Zen Touch), that was the only way to add the mp3s. I don't think Creative even supplied a front-end media manager...or if they did, I never bothered installing it.
      • embedding-shape 1y ago
        Yeah, people in my circles and also people on the internet would refer to it as "sideloading" even though none of us were using iPods (I think this was all before the iPod actually, but my memory is a bit hazy), just copy-paste the files with explorer.exe over to the built-in MP3 player storage, people calling it "sideloading".