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How long can it take to become a US citizen?
- josefritzishere 1y agoImmigration to the US takes so long, a large percentage of the applicants die of natural causes while waiting. It's Kafkaesque. https://www.cato.org/blog/16-million-family-sponsored-immigrants-will-die-they-can-immigrate https://www.cato.org/blog/16-million-family-sponsored-immigr... https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/immigration/400000-indians-die-green-cards/ https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/immigration/400000-ind...
- bill_joy_fanboy 1y agoCitizenship in the United States is not a right.
- add-sub-mul-div 1y agoBut if you welcome immigrants so as not to run out of labor or stagnate culturally, rather than simply dislike immigrants, you'd want to improve the bureaucracy.
- slater 1y agoNot if your reelection campaign is reliant on the votes of racists
- bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago[flagged]
- the_gastropod 1y agohttps://www.theglobalstatistics.com/ice-detention-statistics/ https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/ice-detention-statistics... According to the stats on this page, there’s literally not a single white immigrant from Europe who has been detained.
- duped 1y agoThere is at least one: https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/documents-shed-light-background-of-hanover-park-police-officer-arrested-ice/ https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/documents-shed-light-ba... But the point still stands, they're out here rounding up people who don't look white enough.
- hollerith 1y agoThe page leaves whites out in the table of ethnicities, from which you jump to the conclusion that there are none.
- the_gastropod 1y agoYou’re jumping to the conclusion that there’s another reason they’d arbitrarily leave out such a segment. It’s either because there aren’t enough to merit an entry, or there’s some conspiracy afoot to make this obviously racist enforcement appear racist.
- rootusrootus 1y ago> We could be talking about White immigrants from Europe Or ... white immigrants from South Africa? Yeah, it is about race.
- CrulesAll 1y ago[flagged]
- CrulesAll 1y ago"so as not to run out of labor" Beloved by the extreme right economically and now Trump. Low ball the labor market. Destroy the middle class and especially the working class. But at least CEOs will get their performance bonuses, and shareholders will see shares rise due to lower costs.
- IAmBroom 1y agoIt's literally the current case. Our citizenry is incapable of meeting our labor needs. ("Why" is another discussion entirely.) If you were to remove all the illegal immigrants right now from the US, our economy would be kneecapped. Granted, the harvest season is over in most of the US, but housing would be among the first markets to collapse functionally. If you are uncertain how important that market is, study the Great Recession of 2008.
- CrulesAll 1y agoAs opposed to figuratively. "If you were to remove all the illegal immigrants right now from the US" The wage levels and benefits would have to rise to meet the demand for labor. The US would also have to sort out its education and trades system too. But if you think this is a skills shortage, I've got a bridge to sell you. And by the way, you are economically libertarian and on the same side as Trump. Bringing in an Indian to do the same job as an American citizen for half the wage is not a skill shortage, it's crony capitalism. "housing would be among the first markets to collapse functionally" Poe's Law. You'd have a massive supply in housing, and therefore a collapse in the prices to owning a house. It has nothing to do with '08. "f you are uncertain how important that market is, study the Great Recession of 2008." The great recession(It was a depression. I'd suggest studying definitions) was caused by three things: President Clinton scrapping Glass-Steagall Act, the dam set up after the Great Depression of '29 to stop it happening again. President Clinton signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. Credit default swaps were the nukes of '08. Clinton exempted CDSs from regulation!! President Clinton rewrote the Community Reinvestment Act forcing banks and lending institutions to give NINJA loans under the charge of racism(see commentator above) if they did not. He also signed NAFTA allowing cheap labor and material into the US, and allowing companies to move South. (see Ross Perot great sucking sound) He also brought China into the WTO devastating not just America, but the entire West.
- bill_joy_fanboy 1y agoWhat exactly does "stagnate culturally" mean? As far as I can tell, America has rapidly become a cultural cesspit, and yet immigration has never been higher. Not sure I follow...
- happytoexplain 1y agoImplying that homogenous cultures are "stagnant" is a hideous insult to people all around the world.
- BobaFloutist 1y agoIs it a hideous insult because you think it's not true, or because the wording feels offensive? Is there a more polite way to express the same sentiment, if you think it's true, or is it either true or insulting?
- _DeadFred_ 1y agoCuba has had zero immigration for a long time but has an interesting culture. Vietnam has basically zero immigration. Indonesia. Philippines. India. Honduras. Guatemala. Brazil. Jamaica. Mexico. It's both insulting and untrue in a way that feels degrading to these nations' rich thriving cultures. That somehow only western, immigration heavy cultures are valid or are cultures of any worth.
- BobaFloutist 1y agoI do think those nations have rich, thriving cultures. I also think that any culture, no matter how rich and thriving, can lead itself toward stagnation if it becomes overly insular. It's fair to point out that immigration isn't the only possible source of cultural diversity, but it's a powerful force for it, and I think the United States, being a huge cultural exporter, is at more risk than countries that are less dominant on the internet.
- ThrowawayTestr 1y agoJust say what you really mean "white people have no culture"
- BobaFloutist 1y agoWould it make you feel better if I told you I think Japan, South Korea, and China are at risk of the same? I'm not worried about which culture, I think any culture that's not exposed to other cultures is putting itself at a disadvantage.
- estebank 1y agoTo anyone who happens to be born on its soil, it actually is. And leaving people on bureaucratic limbo for decades is abusive.
- bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago[flagged]
- ivraatiems 1y agoEffectively no legal scholars or judges of merit support that belief: https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/09/how-birthright-citizenship-made-it-back-to-the-supreme-court/ https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/09/how-birthright-citizenshi...
- bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago[flagged]
- ivraatiems 1y agoI'm sure you know better than them due to your many years serving on courts of note.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- IAmBroom 1y agoAlright, how about this rebuttal: That the Earth is round is also debatable. It is considered so by rational and informed people, however.
- fl7305 1y ago> Effectively no legal scholars or judges of merit support that belief And how did the "legal scholars or judges of merit" interpret the 2nd amendment in 1800? The same way as today? The constitution seems to have become a lot more flexible today than people should be comfortable with.
- triceratops 1y agoFreedom of speech is though. You're allowed to complain about the process as much as you want.
- bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago[flagged]
- winter_blue 1y agoThis is factually wrong. Freedom of speech (1st am.) is for all.
- bill_joy_fanboy 1y agoBecause you feel like it should apply?
- triceratops 1y agoYes. And also the century of case law. Again if you disagree, you'd better be prepared to produce birth certificates of all your ancestors to prove you're a "natural born citizen" born of citizens. That's where this leads.
- winter_blue 1y agoEventually, if they’re old stock European-American, that essentially means that they’re the descendants of invaders (i.e. illegal immigrants who never got the consent of the Native Americans to settle).
- triceratops 1y ago1. You don't know if OP is a citizen or not. 2. They apply to everyone subject to the jurisdiction of the US. Otherwise it would be real easy to just say "you're not a citizen, you have no rights". Don't be so sure you're safe.
- notepad0x90 1y agoit's literally in the bill of rights. I swear, it needs to amended so that natural born citizens should also have to pass citizenship questions like immigrants to retain their citizenship. How can you not know this? Have you never read or heard a recital of the bill of rights?
- stronglikedan 1y agoAnd yet we still have the most people trying to get in, and we also let the most people in annually, so we must be doing something better than everyone else. Of course, everything can always be improved.
- bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago[flagged]
- daft_pink 1y agoThere is no doubt that the country caps and quotas for immigrants from countries with large populations like India, Mexico, Philippenes and China are a huge problem. I’m not sure that anyone can really agree on a solution, but there should be some stop loss where these things can’t be delayed beyond a certain fixed length of time and/or they shouldn’t issue the initial visas if the backlog to adjust is so long. The reason that this and most immigration law hasn’t been fixed is that while most people agree that this is a problem, there is not really a compromise solution that everyone can really agree on.
- packetlost 1y agoFully, fully disagree. The process should be better, but caps are not one of the problems that needs significant rework.
- rootusrootus 1y agoI suspect that the amount of background legwork for each application is fairly limited. It should be possible to triage the vast majority of applications in a matter of days at most, at least the denials. It's wild that it takes years to do this. I assume it's intentional. And/or profitable.
- packetlost 1y agoYou've clearly never seen someone go for citizenship. It's a relatively involved process that involves multiple interviews, character reference letters, lots of paperwork, etc. Getting a greencard (or equivalent) is an entirely different thing and is even _more_ broken.
- rootusrootus 1y agoI've known several people who've done it. I wasn't trying to argue that there isn't a lot of manual labor going on. But I'm doubting how much of that labor extends beyond interfacing with the applicant. Are they interviewing references outside the country? Doing deep background checks that are not basically instant electronically? That's what I'm talking about. The denial process can probably be made extremely fast, and then the tedious interview part can be focused only on the ones we are planning to accept otherwise.
- ivraatiems 1y ago"Just do it the right way." "Coming here illegally is a crime so everyone who does it is a criminal." The legal moralism people apply to immigration is absurd, especially in the United States. We have purposefully made it impossible to do the right thing, so we can rejoice in punishing those who do it "wrong". It's shameful, in my opinion.
- nxor 1y agoIt should be telling that a great portion of these people are young men, and young men from certain regions view women, minorities, and ideas like honesty and fairness much differently. Europe is facing this right now. What are you suggesting? All of India moves to the US? Are you even aware they'd do that if they could? That is _not_ practical.
- bulbar 1y agoWhat do you mean with "telling"? That they are in tech because that's the demographic of tech folks? Or that men in most parts of the world are responsible to make enough money for the whole family? It's more rethorical but I seriously don't know how that's telling. > Europe is facing this right now. What exactly? War in Syria was ten years ago. > What are you suggesting? All of India moves to the US? I find it clear that the suggestion is: Provide a clear and feasible path for people who wish to migrate and will benefit the society. We lack that in Europe/Germany as well and ironically are missing the laws to deal with criminal immigration effectively. It's sad many people don't even know or think about the difference of regular migration and coming as a refugee. Migration of skilled workers must become much easier in Europe, while refugees are a very different topic.
- BobaFloutist 1y agoAlso a lot of people applying that legal moralism consider it not just acceptable, but laudable to try to cheat on your taxes, a pretty significant crime.
- happytoexplain 1y ago
- spprashant 1y agoThe US is doing something right if so many people are ready to wait in limbo for decades of the one life they get on this planet. For people on employment visas - they are one economic downturn away from everything being undone. They ll get 60/90 days to leave the life and relationships they have spent years building.
- nxor 1y agoAll true but isn't our quality of life built on mines in Africa (car batteries and phone batteries) and sweatshops in China and co (much of our clothes)? To what degree does that reinforce that other countries have lower quality of life? Then again, this isn't specific to just the US.
- testing22321 1y agoBillions of people around the world live in poverty without running water or power, let alone economic opportunities. Saying the US is doing something right because people want to immigrate there is setting the bar very low. Those billions would happily go to any Developed country, and per capita, the US doesn’t have particularly high immigration (Australia is the highest)
- ThrowawayTestr 1y ago>Those billions would happily go to any Developed country You'll find it's a lot more difficult to immigrate to those other developed countries
- testing22321 1y agoThe US is very commonly regarded as the hardest country in the world to get a work permit as a foreigner. I had two to the US, and have had them for three other countries.
- dragonwriter 1y agoWork permits and immigrant visas are not the same thing, though they are overlapping categories.
- EcommerceFlow 1y ago[flagged]
- O_H_E 1y agoSpeaking of the US, how are TN visas nowadays? Are companies allergic to their paperwork like other visas that are harder to get?
- Spoom 1y agoAnecdotally as someone in a large tech company, fairly common and much easier to get than a lot of visa classes. But then, you have to be Canadian or Mexican (and the Canadian one is generally easier). Also keep in mind that it's a non-immigrant, non-dual intent visa, so if you end up wanting to stay, you'll need to adjust to another class at some point.
- josefritzishere 1y agoBecause this thread is a little spicy, I just want to remind folks that their comments are potentially "discoverable" in a legal situation. So if you comment something disparaging about minorities or immigrants it may haunt you later. Let’s keep it civil.
- ThrowawayTestr 1y agoGiven the current administration, it might actually be beneficial
- anon291 1y agoYou're allowed to disparage whomever you want. As I've aged, realizing that many migrants to this country do not have similar views on speech as most Americans has somewhat radicalized me. And I say this as the child of immigrants. With 51 million migrants here today, thats a significant portion of the country and enough to push for cultural change. I love new cultures, but there are some things I'm not willing to give up like speech.
- blastonico 1y ago9 months - from conception to birth
- bdangubic 1y agobirthright citizenship will soon end so you may need to find greener pastures elsewhere :)
- josefritzishere 1y agoThe odds of a change in the constitution are pretty low. Whereas our economic need for immigrants is consistently high... So most of this is just very cruel theatre. Employers fill out an I9 for every hire. Illegal immigration could be ended in a week at the employer level through purely administrative enforement. Instead we have what we have; which means the cruenty theatre is the purpose. Why would that be?
- gadsnprch 1y agoBeing a citizen is totally overrated unless you have a lawn that needs blowing and qualify for social security. I imagine many 49ers felt the same way.
- HaZeust 1y agoWhat?
- jdlyga 1y agoTakes for fucking ever. I worked with my girlfriend -> fiancee -> wife through her transition between student visa, H1B, green card, citizenship. The whole process took about 7 years.
- HaZeust 1y agoDo you have any publications or work of your experience through this? Looking to learn more about it for my own personal life as well.
- esalman 1y ago7 years is nothing. My wife is here for 15 years now and I am 10. It will be 3 more years before we can apply for citizenship. Combined, the two of us will need over 30 years to become citizens. We already pay 6 figures in federal and state taxes.
- zombot 1y agoWho would even want to come to the US any more? Nobody is welcome any more, not even citizens, except those rich enough to bribe the king.
- roncesvalles 1y agoFactual inaccuracy in TFA: visa backlog depends on the country of birth, not country of citizenship. If you're born in China, you will always be in the "China" queue even if you're a citizen of some other country.
- esalman 1y agoIt's not talked about enough how difficult it is for an honest, hard-working person to get a green card or citizenship, but how easy it is for people who get rich through corruption and extortion in other countries.