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> OpenAI enabled its users to have a sext conversation. Considering that this is only with verified adults, how is this "evil"? I find it more evil to treat fu

> OpenAI enabled its users to have a sext conversation. Considering that this is only with verified adults, how is this "evil"? I find it more evil to treat full grown adult users as kids and heavily censor their use of LLMs. (Not to detract from the rest of your post, with which I agree).

logicprog 11mo ago
Yeah the disapproval/disgust I'm seeing everywhere, from pretty much every side that I keep my eye on, about OpenAI enabling erotica generation with ChatGPT is so frustrating, because it seems like just Puritanism and censorship, and desiring to treat adults like children as you say.
- poolnoodle 11mo ago
  It is not bad per se but in my opinion it shows that OpenAI is desperately trying to stop bleeding money.
  - logicprog 11mo ago
    I mean, their issue isn't that not enough users are using ChatGPT, so they need to enable new user modalities to draw more people in — they already have something like 800 million MAU. Their issue is that most of their tokens are generated free right now both from those users and stuff like CoPilot, and they're building stupidly huge unnecessary data enters to scale their way to "AGI." So yeah, everyone says this looks like a sign of desperation, but I just don't see it at all, because it would solve a problem they don't actually have (not enough people finding GPT useful).
    - Gerardo1 11mo ago
      If you re--calibrate from any lofty idea of their motives to "get investor money now", this and other moves/announcements make more sense: anything that could look good to an investor. User count going up? Sure. New browser that will deeply integrate chatGPT into users lives and give OAI access to their browsing/shopping data? Sure Several new hardware products that are totally coming in the next several months? Sure We're totally going to start delivering ads? Sure We're making commitments to all these compute providers because our growth is totally going to warrant it? Sure Oh, since we're investing in all of that compute, we're also going to become a compute vendor! Sure None of it is particularly intentional, strategic, or sound. OAI is a money pit, they can always see the end of the runway, and must secure funding now. That is their perpetual state.
- GrinningFool 11mo ago
  The issues that these pseudo-relationships can cause have barely begun to be discussed, nevermind studied and understood. We know that they exist, and not only for people with known mental health issues. And that's all we know. But the industry will happily brush that aside in order to drive up those sweet MAU and MRR numbers. One of those, "I'm willing to sacrifice [a percentage of the population] for market share and profit" situations. Edits: grammar
  - jamincan 11mo ago
    People form parasocial relationships with AI already with content restrictions in place. It seems to me that that is a separate issue entirely.
  - kakacik 11mo ago
    That's kind of patronizing position or maybe a conservative one (in US terms). There can be harm, there can be good, nobody can say at this moment for sure which is more. Do you feel the same about say alcohol and cigarettes? We allow those, heck we encourage those in some situations for adults yet they destroy whole societies (look at russia with alcohol, look at Indonesia for cigarettes if you haven't been there). I see a lot of points to discuss and study but none to ban with parent's topic.
    - insane_dreamer 11mo ago
      We did finally come around to the point of restricting advertising and sale of cigarettes, and limiting where you could smoke, to where it is much less prevalent in today's generation than earlier generations. The issue is it becoming ubiquitous in an effort to make money.
    - GrinningFool 11mo ago
      I'm really not suggesting a ban, there's no way that would fly. I'm suggesting restraint and responsibility on the part of the organization pushing this. When do we learn that being reactive after the harm is done isn't actually a required method of doing business? That it's okay to slow down even if there's a short-term opportunity cost? This applies just as much to the push for LLMs everywhere as it does OpenAI's specific intention to support sexbots. But it's all the same pattern. Push for as much as we can, as fast as we can, at as broad a scale as we can -- and deal with the consequences only when we can't ignore them anymore. (And if we can keep that to a bare minimum, that would be best for the bottom line.)
- hofrogs 11mo ago
  Looks like OpenAI can do anything it desires, but if an indie artist tries to take money for NSFW content, or even just make it for free publicly - they get barred from using payment processors and such.
ChicagoDave 11mo ago
My point is not about morality. It’s about ROI focus and that OpenAI can’t and won’t ever return anything remotely close to what’s been invested. Adult content is not getting them closer to profitability. And if anyone believes the AGI hyperbole, oh boy I have a bridge and a mountain to sell. LLM tech will never lead to AGI. You need a tech that mimics synapses. It doesn’t exist.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 11mo ago
  << LLM tech will never lead to AGI. I suspect this may be one of those predictions that may not quite pan out. I am not saying it is a given, but never is about as unlikely.
  - saltwatercowboy 11mo ago
    ...Why?
    - cosmosgenius 11mo ago
      AGI might be possible with more Param+Data scaling for LLM. It is not completely within the realm of impossible given that there is no proof yet of "limits" of LLM. Current limitation is definitely on the hardware side.
      - capyba 11mo ago
        The processing capability of today’s CPU’s and GPU’s is insane. From handheld devices to data centers, the capability to manipulate absurd amounts of data in fractions of a second is everywhere. It’s not the hardware, it’s the algorithms.
        cosmosgenius 11mo ago
        Maybe it is the algorithms. But just by doing a op for an 10^25 param llm is definitely not feasible on todays hardware. Emergent properties does happen at high density. Emergent properties might even look as AGI.
The_President 11mo ago
Ok so for that matter let's pose this hypothetical... How would you feel if Disney or Nintendo produced adult content for verified adults?
- sdoering 11mo ago
  Why should anyone feel anything offensive about that? Or why would anyone get offended over this? I really do not understand what the issue would be.
  - wkat4242 11mo ago
    The whole "porn is a poison to society" narrative is very strong with conservatives now. A lot of them (here in Holland even) want it banned like it's Afghanistan and for everyone to have a family with lots of kids that has their dinner at 6pm after prayer. I also don't subscribe to that. I'm polyamorous and sex-positive. And very LGBTIQ friendly. But I've seen that attitude a lot even in Europe :( especially from the emerging extreme right parties. I don't really understand it either. Why is it any of their business what I do? I don't tell them they can't have a big traditional family. Why are they so preoccupied with me.
    - sdoering 11mo ago
      Couldn't agree more. I am cis-het in a long relationship, childfree by choice. But don't think conservative ideology/politics is about making their rules your rules. Or at least being bound by their rules. I mean: If Musk doesn't like what someone says, they get blocked from Twitter (or in case of German political parties, downranked, so that the far right is ranking higher/being recommended more often on X). But they (like Musk) claim "free speech" for themselves. Meaning, they want to say what they feel like without consequences. I found this interesting "law" by Frank Wilhoit: > Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
      - 11mo ago
wkat4242 11mo ago
That's true. Most of my local models are uncensored. I don't want that prude culture pushed on me. And it also stops AI from working correctly because a lot of stuff I talk about with my friends is sexual and it's so annoying for an AI model to keep closing up.

logicprog 11mo ago

Yeah the disapproval/disgust I'm seeing everywhere, from pretty much every side that I keep my eye on, about OpenAI enabling erotica generation with ChatGPT is so frustrating, because it seems like just Puritanism and censorship, and desiring to treat adults like children as you say.

poolnoodle 11mo ago
It is not bad per se but in my opinion it shows that OpenAI is desperately trying to stop bleeding money.
- logicprog 11mo ago
  I mean, their issue isn't that not enough users are using ChatGPT, so they need to enable new user modalities to draw more people in — they already have something like 800 million MAU. Their issue is that most of their tokens are generated free right now both from those users and stuff like CoPilot, and they're building stupidly huge unnecessary data enters to scale their way to "AGI." So yeah, everyone says this looks like a sign of desperation, but I just don't see it at all, because it would solve a problem they don't actually have (not enough people finding GPT useful).
  - Gerardo1 11mo ago
    If you re--calibrate from any lofty idea of their motives to "get investor money now", this and other moves/announcements make more sense: anything that could look good to an investor. User count going up? Sure. New browser that will deeply integrate chatGPT into users lives and give OAI access to their browsing/shopping data? Sure Several new hardware products that are totally coming in the next several months? Sure We're totally going to start delivering ads? Sure We're making commitments to all these compute providers because our growth is totally going to warrant it? Sure Oh, since we're investing in all of that compute, we're also going to become a compute vendor! Sure None of it is particularly intentional, strategic, or sound. OAI is a money pit, they can always see the end of the runway, and must secure funding now. That is their perpetual state.
GrinningFool 11mo ago
The issues that these pseudo-relationships can cause have barely begun to be discussed, nevermind studied and understood. We know that they exist, and not only for people with known mental health issues. And that's all we know. But the industry will happily brush that aside in order to drive up those sweet MAU and MRR numbers. One of those, "I'm willing to sacrifice [a percentage of the population] for market share and profit" situations. Edits: grammar
- jamincan 11mo ago
  People form parasocial relationships with AI already with content restrictions in place. It seems to me that that is a separate issue entirely.
- kakacik 11mo ago
  That's kind of patronizing position or maybe a conservative one (in US terms). There can be harm, there can be good, nobody can say at this moment for sure which is more. Do you feel the same about say alcohol and cigarettes? We allow those, heck we encourage those in some situations for adults yet they destroy whole societies (look at russia with alcohol, look at Indonesia for cigarettes if you haven't been there). I see a lot of points to discuss and study but none to ban with parent's topic.
  - insane_dreamer 11mo ago
    We did finally come around to the point of restricting advertising and sale of cigarettes, and limiting where you could smoke, to where it is much less prevalent in today's generation than earlier generations. The issue is it becoming ubiquitous in an effort to make money.
  - GrinningFool 11mo ago
    I'm really not suggesting a ban, there's no way that would fly. I'm suggesting restraint and responsibility on the part of the organization pushing this. When do we learn that being reactive after the harm is done isn't actually a required method of doing business? That it's okay to slow down even if there's a short-term opportunity cost? This applies just as much to the push for LLMs everywhere as it does OpenAI's specific intention to support sexbots. But it's all the same pattern. Push for as much as we can, as fast as we can, at as broad a scale as we can -- and deal with the consequences only when we can't ignore them anymore. (And if we can keep that to a bare minimum, that would be best for the bottom line.)
hofrogs 11mo ago
Looks like OpenAI can do anything it desires, but if an indie artist tries to take money for NSFW content, or even just make it for free publicly - they get barred from using payment processors and such.

ChicagoDave 11mo ago

My point is not about morality. It’s about ROI focus and that OpenAI can’t and won’t ever return anything remotely close to what’s been invested. Adult content is not getting them closer to profitability. And if anyone believes the AGI hyperbole, oh boy I have a bridge and a mountain to sell. LLM tech will never lead to AGI. You need a tech that mimics synapses. It doesn’t exist.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 11mo ago
<< LLM tech will never lead to AGI. I suspect this may be one of those predictions that may not quite pan out. I am not saying it is a given, but never is about as unlikely.
- saltwatercowboy 11mo ago
  ...Why?
  - cosmosgenius 11mo ago
    AGI might be possible with more Param+Data scaling for LLM. It is not completely within the realm of impossible given that there is no proof yet of "limits" of LLM. Current limitation is definitely on the hardware side.
    - capyba 11mo ago
      The processing capability of today’s CPU’s and GPU’s is insane. From handheld devices to data centers, the capability to manipulate absurd amounts of data in fractions of a second is everywhere. It’s not the hardware, it’s the algorithms.
      - cosmosgenius 11mo ago
        Maybe it is the algorithms. But just by doing a op for an 10^25 param llm is definitely not feasible on todays hardware. Emergent properties does happen at high density. Emergent properties might even look as AGI.

The_President 11mo ago

Ok so for that matter let's pose this hypothetical... How would you feel if Disney or Nintendo produced adult content for verified adults?

sdoering 11mo ago
Why should anyone feel anything offensive about that? Or why would anyone get offended over this? I really do not understand what the issue would be.
- wkat4242 11mo ago
  The whole "porn is a poison to society" narrative is very strong with conservatives now. A lot of them (here in Holland even) want it banned like it's Afghanistan and for everyone to have a family with lots of kids that has their dinner at 6pm after prayer. I also don't subscribe to that. I'm polyamorous and sex-positive. And very LGBTIQ friendly. But I've seen that attitude a lot even in Europe :( especially from the emerging extreme right parties. I don't really understand it either. Why is it any of their business what I do? I don't tell them they can't have a big traditional family. Why are they so preoccupied with me.
  - sdoering 11mo ago
    Couldn't agree more. I am cis-het in a long relationship, childfree by choice. But don't think conservative ideology/politics is about making their rules your rules. Or at least being bound by their rules. I mean: If Musk doesn't like what someone says, they get blocked from Twitter (or in case of German political parties, downranked, so that the far right is ranking higher/being recommended more often on X). But they (like Musk) claim "free speech" for themselves. Meaning, they want to say what they feel like without consequences. I found this interesting "law" by Frank Wilhoit: > Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
    - 11mo ago

wkat4242 11mo ago

That's true. Most of my local models are uncensored. I don't want that prude culture pushed on me. And it also stops AI from working correctly because a lot of stuff I talk about with my friends is sexual and it's so annoying for an AI model to keep closing up.