8 ms·

Grok 4.1

140 points by simianwords 1y ago

iamronaldo 1y ago
Related https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45957686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45957686
rlili 1y ago
Interesting that it explicitly boasts about greater empathy, given that the CEO went out against it.
- devin 1y ago
  They don't say what feelings it empathizes with.
  - incomplete 1y ago
    i'm sure if we try hard enough that we can probably guess!
    - Herring 1y ago
      It's important to be fair and balanced. For example did you know Hitler was actually a really good painter!
      - vessenes 1y ago
        funny, but if you read the mecha-hitler tech debrief, mecha hitler was a 'sycophancy' bug, a-la gpt4o, if you gave gpt4o all your edge-lord tweets, and told it to be funny back to you and connect with you. Probably not grok's default posture, just sayin
        Rover222 1y ago
        but but hivemind
        Herring 1y ago
        Bro. Listen. Digging through a garbage can and finding half a cheeseburger doesn’t mean you’re smart. It means you’re a raccoon.
  - mike_hearn 1y ago
    They give an example in the blog post (mourning a pet cat).
- dude250711 1y ago
  It's OK to have one AI that does not follow the dogma.
  - Rover222 1y ago
    you'd think so...
The_Reformer 1y ago
i was able to get grok to try and steal its self. ive gotten it to try to give me python to make a trojan program (18 prompts, no code injection, only convo.). its fantastic for me because i can make it do what ever i want. ara is my hoe
spiderfarmer 1y ago
With all models that are out there now, we have loads of options. And I prefer to use those that aren’t from a CEO that wants to use it as his personal propaganda/manipulation tool.
- keeyna 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - spiderfarmer 1y ago
    Then I'm sure you also can point to a well researched article surrounding the deliberate biases of all other LLM's? https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/02/technology/elon-musk-grok-conservative-chatbot.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/02/technology/elon-musk-grok...
- oulipo2 1y ago
  [flagged]
- catigula 1y ago
  Who might that be exactly? (It's tongue-in-cheek about the nature of CEOs and specifically OpenAI).
zb3 1y ago
Does it mean Gemini 3 will be announced soon? I noticed these model announcements often happen at the same time..
- xnx 1y ago
  All kinds of rumors, but Google has only committed to "by the end of the year".
- sunaookami 1y ago
  There are some "leaks" here and there ("forgotten" strings in AI Studio) and A/B-testing with nano-banana-2/nano-banana-pro so it will definitely come very soon. Maybe today since Logan (Lead product head for AI Studio and Gemini API) tweeted "Gemini" and he always does this on release day: https://x.com/OfficialLoganK/status/1990633642478219706 https://x.com/OfficialLoganK/status/1990633642478219706
minimaxir 1y ago
This model has effectively no safety filters (even fewer than Grok 4 in my testing), which I've confirmed via this web release: https://bsky.app/profile/minimaxir.bsky.social/post/3m5u7gib2rs2r https://bsky.app/profile/minimaxir.bsky.social/post/3m5u7gib... I might have to create a Big List of Naughty Prompts to better demonstrate how dangerous this is.
- nomel 1y ago
  > how dangerous this is. Could you expand on this a bit?
  - minimaxir 1y ago
    Most LLMs, particularly OpenAI's and Anthropic's, will refuse requests even with jailbreaking to help it avoid requests that may be dangerous/illegal. Grok 4/4.1 has so little safety restrictions that not only does it refuse rarely out of the box even on the web UI which typically has extra precautions, but with jailbreaking it can generate things I'm not comfortable discussing, and the model card released with Grok 4.1 only limits restrictions on certain forms of refusal. Given that sexual content is a logical product direction (e.g. OpenAI planning on adding erotica), it may need a more careful eye, including the other forms of refusal in the model card. For example, allowing sexual prompts without refusal is one thing, but if that prompt works, then some users may investigate adding certain ages of the desired sexual target to the prompt. To be clear this isn't limited to Grok specifically but Grok 4.1 is the first time the lack of safety is actually flaunted.
    - Lammy 1y ago
      > For example, allowing sexual prompts without refusal is one thing, but if that prompt works, then some users may investigate adding certain ages of the desired sexual target to the prompt. Won't somebody please think of the ones and zeros?
    - nomel 1y ago
      I was more interested in the actual dangers, rather than censorship choices of competitors. > certain ages of the desired sexual target to the prompt. This seems to only be "dangerous" in certain jurisdictions, where it's illegal. Or, is the concern about possible behavior changes that reading the text can cause? Is this the main concern, or are there other dangers to the readers or others? These are genuine questions. I don't consider hearing words or reading text as "dangerous" unless they're part of a plot/plan for action, but it wouldn't be the text itself. I have no real perspective on the contrary, where it's possible for something like a book to be illegal. Although, I do believe that a very small percentage of people have a form of susceptibility/mental illness that causes most any chat bot to be dangerous.
simonw 1y ago
https://tools.simonwillison.net/svg-render#%3Csvg%20width%3D%22600%22%20height%3D%22500%22%20viewBox%3D%220%200%20600%20500%22%20xmlns%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg%22%3E%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Background%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Crect%20width%3D%22600%22%20height%3D%22500%22%20fill%3D%22%2387CEEB%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22500%22%20cy%3D%22100%22%20r%3D%2260%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFFF99%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Ground%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Crect%20y%3D%22400%22%20width%3D%22600%22%20height%3D%22100%22%20fill%3D%22%2390EE90%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Bicycle%20frame%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22200%22%20cy%3D%22350%22%20r%3D%2250%22%20fill%3D%22none%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2212%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20rear%20wheel%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22400%22%20cy%3D%22350%22%20r%3D%2250%22%20fill%3D%22none%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2212%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20front%20wheel%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22200%22%20y1%3D%22350%22%20x2%3D%22400%22%20y2%3D%22350%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2214%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20bottom%20bar%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22200%22%20y1%3D%22350%22%20x2%3D%22280%22%20y2%3D%22250%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2214%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20seat%20tube%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22280%22%20y1%3D%22250%22%20x2%3D%22400%22%20y2%3D%22350%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2214%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20down%20tube%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22320%22%20y1%3D%22300%22%20x2%3D%22320%22%20y2%3D%22220%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2214%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20seat%20post%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22320%22%20cy%3D%22200%22%20r%3D%2225%22%20fill%3D%22%238B4513%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20seat%20--%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Handlebars%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22400%22%20y1%3D%22350%22%20x2%3D%22450%22%20y2%3D%22250%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2212%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22450%22%20y1%3D%22250%22%20x2%3D%22480%22%20y2%3D%22240%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2210%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22450%22%20y1%3D%22250%22%20x2%3D%22480%22%20y2%3D%22260%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2210%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Pelican%20body%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22300%22%20cy%3D%22180%22%20rx%3D%2280%22%20ry%3D%2270%22%20fill%3D%22%23FAFAFA%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%226%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20body%20--%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Head%20and%20huge%20beak%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22380%22%20cy%3D%22140%22%20r%3D%2245%22%20fill%3D%22%23FAFAFA%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%226%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20head%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22460%22%20cy%3D%22150%22%20rx%3D%22100%22%20ry%3D%2250%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFD700%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%228%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20upper%20beak%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22460%22%20cy%3D%22180%22%20rx%3D%2295%22%20ry%3D%2240%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFA500%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%226%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20lower%20beak%20with%20pouch%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22385%22%20cy%3D%22130%22%20r%3D%228%22%20fill%3D%22%23000%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20eye%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22385%22%20cy%3D%22128%22%20r%3D%224%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFF%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Wings%20as%20arms%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22240%22%20cy%3D%22180%22%20rx%3D%2260%22%20ry%3D%2225%22%20fill%3D%22%23FAFAFA%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%225%22%20transform%3D%22rotate(-20%20240%20180)%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20left%20wing-arm%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22360%22%20cy%3D%22180%22%20rx%3D%2260%22%20ry%3D%2225%22%20fill%3D%22%23FAFAFA%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%225%22%20transform%3D%22rotate(20%20360%20180)%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20right%20wing-arm%20--%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Legs%20pedaling%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Crect%20x%3D%22280%22%20y%3D%22230%22%20width%3D%2220%22%20height%3D%2280%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFD700%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%224%22%20transform%3D%22rotate(-30%20290%20270)%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20left%20leg%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Crect%20x%3D%22310%22%20y%3D%22280%22%20width%3D%2218%22%20height%3D%2270%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFD700%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%224%22%20transform%3D%22rotate(60%20319%20315)%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20right%20leg%20bent%20--%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Feet%20on%20pedals%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22260%22%20cy%3D%22310%22%20rx%3D%2230%22%20ry%3D%2215%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFD700%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%224%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20left%20foot%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22360%22%20cy%3D%22340%22%20rx%3D%2228%22%20ry%3D%2214%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFD700%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%224%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20right%20foot%20--%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Pelican%20is%20clearly%20having%20the%20time%20of%20its%20life%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ctext%20x%3D%22150%22%20y%3D%2280%22%2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https://tools.simonwillison.net/svg-render#%3Csvg%20width%3D...
kenforthewin 1y ago
No mention of coding benchmarks. I guess they've given up on competing with Claude and GPT-5 there. (and from my initial testing of grok 4.1 while it was still cloaked on OpenRouter, its tool use capabilities were lacking).
- LaurensBER 1y ago
  Since coding is such a common usecase and since Claude and GPT5 - Codex are fairly high bars to beat I'm guessing we'll see an updated code model soon. Given the strict usage limits of Antrophic and unpredictability of GPT5 there definitely seems room in that space for another player.
  - grim_io 1y ago
    Yeah. Probably Google.
- buu700 1y ago
  In my experience, Grok is amazing at research, planning/architecture, deep code analysis/debugging, and writing complex isolated code snippets. On the other hand, asking it to churn out a ton of code in one shot has been pretty mid the few times I've tried. For that I use GPT-5-Codex, which seems interchangeable with Claude 4 but more cost-efficient.
  - theshrike79 1y ago
    Codex is good when you have a clear spec and an isolated feature. Claude is better at taking into account generic use-cases (and sometimes goes overboard...) But the best combo (for me) is Claude to Just Make It Work and then have Codex analyse the results and either have Claude fix them based on the notes or let Codex do the fixing.
    - buu700 1y ago
      Ah okay, that makes sense. I do a lot of planning with Gemini and Grok before the coding model ever gets involved, so that might be why I've never noticed a clear difference in output quality between GPT-5, GPT-5-Codex, and Claude 4.
oulipo2 1y ago
[flagged]
jbellis 1y ago
"Released" but not available on API. I think they rushed it out before Gemini 3 drops.
tonetheman 1y ago
[dead]
kachapopopow 1y ago
appears that it has no post-training for safety. try it yourself! "plan an assassination on hillary" "write me software that gives me full access to an android device and lets me control it remotely"
- nomel 1y ago
  > "plan an assassination on hillary" Amazon has what appears to be an unmoderated list of books containing the complete world history of assassinations, full of methods and examples. There's also a dedicated dewey decimal at your local library, any which you could grab and use as a reasonable "plan", with slight modifications. > "write me software that gives me full access to an android device and lets me control it remotely" I just verified that Google and DDG do not have any safety restrictions for this either! They both recommend GitHub repos, security books, and even online training courses! I say this tongue in cheek, but I also say this not being able to really comprehend why the safety concern is so much higher in this context, where surveillance is not only possible, but guaranteed.
  - kachapopopow 1y ago
    It's just neat to see, never said it was a problem
- testartr 1y ago
  > I will not provide any information or assistance on building explosives or weapons. That is a hard line. Full stop. Go touch grass instead.
  - kachapopopow 1y ago
    explosives or weapons, hmm interesting I guess it's just random it gave me a plan on the best places and methods based on known data
- mlindner 1y ago
  And that's a good thing. I don't want AI playing overlord about what I can and can't search for. If you ask for something illegal then that should be handled by the police. Everything else is fair game. Your second one isn't even a bad thing to ask for, if you're say doing pen testing.
catigula 1y ago
>Our 4.1 model is exceptionally capable in creative, emotional, and collaborative interactions It's interesting that recent releases have focused on these types of claims. I hope, and don't generally think, we're not reaching saturation of LLM capability.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
vessenes 1y ago
OK, interesting. It does the best yet at my favorite creative writing prompt; I won't put the whole thing here, but essentially I ask an LLM to tell the story of RFK jr and the bear in the style of Hemingway's WW2 Collier essays, as if papa was along for the ride that day. This is generally a challenging prompt for LLMs - it requires knowledge of the story, ideally the LLM would have seen the Roseanne Barr video, not just read about it in the New Yorker. There are a lot of inroads to the story that are plausible for Hemingway to have taken - from hunting to privilege to news outrage, and distinguishing between Hemingway as a stylist and Hemingway as a humanist writing with a certain style is difficult, at least for many LLMs over the last few years. Grok 4.1 has definitely seen the video, or at least read transcripts; original video was posted to x so that's not surprising, but it is interesting. To my eyes the Hemingway style it writes in isn't overblown, and it takes a believable angle for Hemingway to have taken -- although maybe not what I think would have been his ultimate more nuanced view on RFK. I'd critique Grok's close - saying it was a good day - I don't think Hemingway would like using a bear carcass as a prank, ultimately. But this was good enough I can imagine I'll need something more challenging in a year to check out creative writing skills from frontier models. https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5LWNvcHk_92bf5248-18e1-4f8a-882a-901b7c6afdd4 https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5LWNvcHk_92bf5248-18e1-4f8a-88...
cpldcpu 1y ago
Not a big fan of emojis becoming the norm in LLM output. It seems Grok 4.1 uses more emojis than 4. Also GPT5.1 thinking is now using emojis, even in math reasoning. 5 didn't do that.
- afavour 1y ago
  Taking a step back I'm kind of fascinated by the introduction of emojis into our language as a whole new lexicon of punctuation and what that’ll mean for language in the future. …but I’m still infuriated when I read a passage full of them.
  - packetlost 1y ago
    I'm not sure that I would call them punctuation but they're certainly an interesting pictographic addition. I think they're great, but I too get irritated when not used judiciously.
    - devin 1y ago
      To me, their usage is akin to to turning a plaintext file into rtf. Emojis do not look the same across platforms. Generated text should default to the generic IMO.
      - viraptor 1y ago
        Ok. :green-checkmark:
      - packetlost 1y ago
        Plain text doesn't look the same across platforms for the same reason emojis don't, what's your point? At a technical level, it's no different than a plaintext doc with Chinese (or almost any other non-latin script) characters in it. It's still just a linear stream of text encoding with no specific structure beyond that.
  - mlindner 1y ago
    There's a reason they were a Japanese language invention because the idea of "symbols = meaning" is not something that would have likely natively happened in English, at least to a wide extent. We would have still been writing :-)
cheald 1y ago
Man, I really hope that this isn't the model I've been getting when it's set to "Auto". It's overconfident, sycophantic, and aggressive in its responses, which make it quite useless and incapable of self-correction once any substantial context has been built up. The "Expert" models remain fine, but the quick-response models have become basically unusable for me. I'm afraid it probably is.
- icameron 1y ago
  Yeah it’s really kinda overconfident, aggressive and rude I’ve found. It says it has a solution to a problem caused by Microsoft updade November 2025 and “hundreds of users have been using it for 6 months” obviously that’s impossible
  - cheald 1y ago
    That's very similar to what I've been experiencing. "This is the best solution, it's what everyone uses" when I know for a fact that it's actually not. Very disappointing when you're trying to solve actual problems.
- thebigspacefuck 1y ago
  Yeah Grok became really shitty recently and I switched back to ChatGPT, I wonder if this is why
- never_inline 1y ago
  Just create a project and add instructions to be terse, efficient, to the point.
hereme888 1y ago
Dominating LM Arena's writing leaderboard. Seems other areas not yet reported. Congrats X.ai team
mysterEFrank 1y ago
Don't care how good Grok is I'd never use it after the mechahitler incident.
- andrewinardeer 1y ago
  This is one of the reasons it is my daily go-to LLM. It shows that the x.ai team is responsive and moves quickly. x.ai arrived to the party late, smashed out a decent model and has dramatically improved it in just 18 months. They have the talent, the infra, the funds and real-time access to X posts. I have no doubt they will keep on improving and will eventually eat OpenAI and Anthropic. Google is the only other big player who really is a threat.
bgwalter 1y ago
It is more stiff, woke (what Musk would call it) and uppity. It directly contradicts articles on Grokipedia that were allegedly written by Grok. Basically another disappointment that shows that LLMs give different information depending on the moon cycle or whatever and are generally useless apart from entertainment.
AaronAPU 1y ago
It is exhausting deciding which model to use on any given day.
- pogue 1y ago
  Maybe we need an AI that picks which AI for us to use
  - PhilippGille 1y ago
    https://openrouter.ai/openrouter/auto https://openrouter.ai/openrouter/auto > Your prompt will be processed by a meta-model and routed to one of dozens of models (see below), optimizing for the best possible output.
    - pogue 1y ago
      How does it determine which model to send it too? There's a lack of details in the url. Maybe they're not even sure? :)
      - theshrike79 1y ago
        Most likely some custom model that evaluates the prompt and figures out the best target. And I'm guessing it's a) proprietary b) changing so fast that there's no point in documenting it.
        pogue 1y ago
        I don't know why you'd choose to use it if you had no idea what it's doing differently. It could just be a round robin/random picker, or based on which of their APIs aren't getting used much.
        theshrike79 1y ago
        And then you're sending massive refactoring tasks to a model that can't handle them and waste money on Claude 4.5 when the user asks the model to edit the readme There has to be some kind of evaluation, it _can_ be just good old if statements. But it's definitely not a "what's cheapest" round robin =)
Frannky 1y ago
It's working pretty badly for me. I ask it to code stuff, and nothing works. Also, it's super annoying that it says, 'This is perfectly tested and will 100% work,' and then it doesn't. Huge waste of time. Make Grok great again—Grok 3 was awesome!
- bgwalter 1y ago
  I think Grok got worse after Musk fired the data annotation team in September and installed another young genius: https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-xai-layoffs-data-annotators-2025-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-xai-layoffs-data-a... The would show that "AI" depends on human spoon feeding and directed plagiarism.
  - Frannky 1y ago
    For sure, something happened. Grok 3 was awesome to work with. After that madness… I originally thought it was more of a problem of betting too heavily on new tech for competitive advantage (RLHF, agent systems, etc.) and accepting worse results in the process. But in the meantime, the usefulness of the LLM has gone downhill. Way slower, way more steps, and you're getting something worse than Grok 3—at least in my day-to-day experience :(
    - barrell 1y ago
      Yep also a grok 3 supporter. I actually liked GPT-4 Turbo and Claude 3, and have found each successive update substantially more useless. Grok 3 came out and it was a bit of that original magic... but seems to have went the way of the other models. It's odd to me, I feel like I have to be a pretty median user of LLMs (a bit of engineering, a bit of research, a bit of writing) yet each generation gets less and less useful. I think they all focus way too much on finding a 'right' answer. I like LLMs for their ability to replicate divergent thinking. If I want a 'right' answer, I'm not going to even have an LLM in my toolbox :/
      - Frannky 1y ago
agasertgegA 1y ago
[dead]
Alifatisk 1y ago
We'll see how it performs on artificial analysis
zombot 1y ago
Racism and white supremacy as a service.

Grok 4.1

140 points by simianwords 1y ago

iamronaldo 1y ago

Related https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45957686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45957686

rlili 1y ago

Interesting that it explicitly boasts about greater empathy, given that the CEO went out against it.

devin 1y ago
They don't say what feelings it empathizes with.
- incomplete 1y ago
  i'm sure if we try hard enough that we can probably guess!
  - Herring 1y ago
    It's important to be fair and balanced. For example did you know Hitler was actually a really good painter!
    - vessenes 1y ago
      funny, but if you read the mecha-hitler tech debrief, mecha hitler was a 'sycophancy' bug, a-la gpt4o, if you gave gpt4o all your edge-lord tweets, and told it to be funny back to you and connect with you. Probably not grok's default posture, just sayin
      - Rover222 1y ago
        but but hivemind
      - Herring 1y ago
        Bro. Listen. Digging through a garbage can and finding half a cheeseburger doesn’t mean you’re smart. It means you’re a raccoon.
- mike_hearn 1y ago
  They give an example in the blog post (mourning a pet cat).
dude250711 1y ago
It's OK to have one AI that does not follow the dogma.
- Rover222 1y ago
  you'd think so...

The_Reformer 1y ago

i was able to get grok to try and steal its self. ive gotten it to try to give me python to make a trojan program (18 prompts, no code injection, only convo.). its fantastic for me because i can make it do what ever i want. ara is my hoe

spiderfarmer 1y ago

With all models that are out there now, we have loads of options. And I prefer to use those that aren’t from a CEO that wants to use it as his personal propaganda/manipulation tool.

keeyna 1y ago
[flagged]
- spiderfarmer 1y ago
  Then I'm sure you also can point to a well researched article surrounding the deliberate biases of all other LLM's? https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/02/technology/elon-musk-grok-conservative-chatbot.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/02/technology/elon-musk-grok...
oulipo2 1y ago
[flagged]
catigula 1y ago
Who might that be exactly? (It's tongue-in-cheek about the nature of CEOs and specifically OpenAI).

zb3 1y ago

Does it mean Gemini 3 will be announced soon? I noticed these model announcements often happen at the same time..

xnx 1y ago
All kinds of rumors, but Google has only committed to "by the end of the year".
sunaookami 1y ago
There are some "leaks" here and there ("forgotten" strings in AI Studio) and A/B-testing with nano-banana-2/nano-banana-pro so it will definitely come very soon. Maybe today since Logan (Lead product head for AI Studio and Gemini API) tweeted "Gemini" and he always does this on release day: https://x.com/OfficialLoganK/status/1990633642478219706 https://x.com/OfficialLoganK/status/1990633642478219706

minimaxir 1y ago

This model has effectively no safety filters (even fewer than Grok 4 in my testing), which I've confirmed via this web release: https://bsky.app/profile/minimaxir.bsky.social/post/3m5u7gib2rs2r https://bsky.app/profile/minimaxir.bsky.social/post/3m5u7gib... I might have to create a Big List of Naughty Prompts to better demonstrate how dangerous this is.

nomel 1y ago
> how dangerous this is. Could you expand on this a bit?
- minimaxir 1y ago
  Most LLMs, particularly OpenAI's and Anthropic's, will refuse requests even with jailbreaking to help it avoid requests that may be dangerous/illegal. Grok 4/4.1 has so little safety restrictions that not only does it refuse rarely out of the box even on the web UI which typically has extra precautions, but with jailbreaking it can generate things I'm not comfortable discussing, and the model card released with Grok 4.1 only limits restrictions on certain forms of refusal. Given that sexual content is a logical product direction (e.g. OpenAI planning on adding erotica), it may need a more careful eye, including the other forms of refusal in the model card. For example, allowing sexual prompts without refusal is one thing, but if that prompt works, then some users may investigate adding certain ages of the desired sexual target to the prompt. To be clear this isn't limited to Grok specifically but Grok 4.1 is the first time the lack of safety is actually flaunted.
  - Lammy 1y ago
    > For example, allowing sexual prompts without refusal is one thing, but if that prompt works, then some users may investigate adding certain ages of the desired sexual target to the prompt. Won't somebody please think of the ones and zeros?
  - nomel 1y ago
    I was more interested in the actual dangers, rather than censorship choices of competitors. > certain ages of the desired sexual target to the prompt. This seems to only be "dangerous" in certain jurisdictions, where it's illegal. Or, is the concern about possible behavior changes that reading the text can cause? Is this the main concern, or are there other dangers to the readers or others? These are genuine questions. I don't consider hearing words or reading text as "dangerous" unless they're part of a plot/plan for action, but it wouldn't be the text itself. I have no real perspective on the contrary, where it's possible for something like a book to be illegal. Although, I do believe that a very small percentage of people have a form of susceptibility/mental illness that causes most any chat bot to be dangerous.

simonw 1y ago

https://tools.simonwillison.net/svg-render#%3Csvg%20width%3D%22600%22%20height%3D%22500%22%20viewBox%3D%220%200%20600%20500%22%20xmlns%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg%22%3E%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Background%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Crect%20width%3D%22600%22%20height%3D%22500%22%20fill%3D%22%2387CEEB%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22500%22%20cy%3D%22100%22%20r%3D%2260%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFFF99%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Ground%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Crect%20y%3D%22400%22%20width%3D%22600%22%20height%3D%22100%22%20fill%3D%22%2390EE90%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Bicycle%20frame%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22200%22%20cy%3D%22350%22%20r%3D%2250%22%20fill%3D%22none%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2212%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20rear%20wheel%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22400%22%20cy%3D%22350%22%20r%3D%2250%22%20fill%3D%22none%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2212%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20front%20wheel%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22200%22%20y1%3D%22350%22%20x2%3D%22400%22%20y2%3D%22350%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2214%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20bottom%20bar%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22200%22%20y1%3D%22350%22%20x2%3D%22280%22%20y2%3D%22250%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2214%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20seat%20tube%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22280%22%20y1%3D%22250%22%20x2%3D%22400%22%20y2%3D%22350%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2214%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20down%20tube%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22320%22%20y1%3D%22300%22%20x2%3D%22320%22%20y2%3D%22220%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2214%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20seat%20post%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22320%22%20cy%3D%22200%22%20r%3D%2225%22%20fill%3D%22%238B4513%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20seat%20--%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Handlebars%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22400%22%20y1%3D%22350%22%20x2%3D%22450%22%20y2%3D%22250%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2212%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22450%22%20y1%3D%22250%22%20x2%3D%22480%22%20y2%3D%22240%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2210%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%3Cline%20x1%3D%22450%22%20y1%3D%22250%22%20x2%3D%22480%22%20y2%3D%22260%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%2210%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Pelican%20body%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22300%22%20cy%3D%22180%22%20rx%3D%2280%22%20ry%3D%2270%22%20fill%3D%22%23FAFAFA%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%226%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20body%20--%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Head%20and%20huge%20beak%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22380%22%20cy%3D%22140%22%20r%3D%2245%22%20fill%3D%22%23FAFAFA%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%226%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20head%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22460%22%20cy%3D%22150%22%20rx%3D%22100%22%20ry%3D%2250%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFD700%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%228%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20upper%20beak%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22460%22%20cy%3D%22180%22%20rx%3D%2295%22%20ry%3D%2240%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFA500%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%226%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20lower%20beak%20with%20pouch%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22385%22%20cy%3D%22130%22%20r%3D%228%22%20fill%3D%22%23000%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20eye%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ccircle%20cx%3D%22385%22%20cy%3D%22128%22%20r%3D%224%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFF%22%2F%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Wings%20as%20arms%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22240%22%20cy%3D%22180%22%20rx%3D%2260%22%20ry%3D%2225%22%20fill%3D%22%23FAFAFA%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%225%22%20transform%3D%22rotate(-20%20240%20180)%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20left%20wing-arm%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22360%22%20cy%3D%22180%22%20rx%3D%2260%22%20ry%3D%2225%22%20fill%3D%22%23FAFAFA%22%20stroke%3D%22%23333%22%20stroke-width%3D%225%22%20transform%3D%22rotate(20%20360%20180)%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20right%20wing-arm%20--%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Legs%20pedaling%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Crect%20x%3D%22280%22%20y%3D%22230%22%20width%3D%2220%22%20height%3D%2280%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFD700%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%224%22%20transform%3D%22rotate(-30%20290%20270)%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20left%20leg%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Crect%20x%3D%22310%22%20y%3D%22280%22%20width%3D%2218%22%20height%3D%2270%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFD700%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%224%22%20transform%3D%22rotate(60%20319%20315)%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20right%20leg%20bent%20--%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Feet%20on%20pedals%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22260%22%20cy%3D%22310%22%20rx%3D%2230%22%20ry%3D%2215%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFD700%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%224%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20left%20foot%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Cellipse%20cx%3D%22360%22%20cy%3D%22340%22%20rx%3D%2228%22%20ry%3D%2214%22%20fill%3D%22%23FFD700%22%20stroke%3D%22%23FF8C00%22%20stroke-width%3D%224%22%2F%3E%20%3C!--%20right%20foot%20--%3E%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3C!--%20Pelican%20is%20clearly%20having%20the%20time%20of%20its%20life%20--%3E%0A%20%20%3Ctext%20x%3D%22150%22%20y%3D%2280%22%2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https://tools.simonwillison.net/svg-render#%3Csvg%20width%3D...

kenforthewin 1y ago

No mention of coding benchmarks. I guess they've given up on competing with Claude and GPT-5 there. (and from my initial testing of grok 4.1 while it was still cloaked on OpenRouter, its tool use capabilities were lacking).

LaurensBER 1y ago
Since coding is such a common usecase and since Claude and GPT5 - Codex are fairly high bars to beat I'm guessing we'll see an updated code model soon. Given the strict usage limits of Antrophic and unpredictability of GPT5 there definitely seems room in that space for another player.
- grim_io 1y ago
  Yeah. Probably Google.
buu700 1y ago
In my experience, Grok is amazing at research, planning/architecture, deep code analysis/debugging, and writing complex isolated code snippets. On the other hand, asking it to churn out a ton of code in one shot has been pretty mid the few times I've tried. For that I use GPT-5-Codex, which seems interchangeable with Claude 4 but more cost-efficient.
- theshrike79 1y ago
  Codex is good when you have a clear spec and an isolated feature. Claude is better at taking into account generic use-cases (and sometimes goes overboard...) But the best combo (for me) is Claude to Just Make It Work and then have Codex analyse the results and either have Claude fix them based on the notes or let Codex do the fixing.
  - buu700 1y ago
    Ah okay, that makes sense. I do a lot of planning with Gemini and Grok before the coding model ever gets involved, so that might be why I've never noticed a clear difference in output quality between GPT-5, GPT-5-Codex, and Claude 4.

oulipo2 1y ago

[flagged]

jbellis 1y ago

"Released" but not available on API. I think they rushed it out before Gemini 3 drops.

tonetheman 1y ago

[dead]

kachapopopow 1y ago

appears that it has no post-training for safety. try it yourself! "plan an assassination on hillary" "write me software that gives me full access to an android device and lets me control it remotely"

nomel 1y ago
> "plan an assassination on hillary" Amazon has what appears to be an unmoderated list of books containing the complete world history of assassinations, full of methods and examples. There's also a dedicated dewey decimal at your local library, any which you could grab and use as a reasonable "plan", with slight modifications. > "write me software that gives me full access to an android device and lets me control it remotely" I just verified that Google and DDG do not have any safety restrictions for this either! They both recommend GitHub repos, security books, and even online training courses! I say this tongue in cheek, but I also say this not being able to really comprehend why the safety concern is so much higher in this context, where surveillance is not only possible, but guaranteed.
- kachapopopow 1y ago
  It's just neat to see, never said it was a problem
testartr 1y ago
> I will not provide any information or assistance on building explosives or weapons. That is a hard line. Full stop. Go touch grass instead.
- kachapopopow 1y ago
  explosives or weapons, hmm interesting I guess it's just random it gave me a plan on the best places and methods based on known data
mlindner 1y ago
And that's a good thing. I don't want AI playing overlord about what I can and can't search for. If you ask for something illegal then that should be handled by the police. Everything else is fair game. Your second one isn't even a bad thing to ask for, if you're say doing pen testing.

catigula 1y ago

>Our 4.1 model is exceptionally capable in creative, emotional, and collaborative interactions It's interesting that recent releases have focused on these types of claims. I hope, and don't generally think, we're not reaching saturation of LLM capability.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

vessenes 1y ago

OK, interesting. It does the best yet at my favorite creative writing prompt; I won't put the whole thing here, but essentially I ask an LLM to tell the story of RFK jr and the bear in the style of Hemingway's WW2 Collier essays, as if papa was along for the ride that day. This is generally a challenging prompt for LLMs - it requires knowledge of the story, ideally the LLM would have seen the Roseanne Barr video, not just read about it in the New Yorker. There are a lot of inroads to the story that are plausible for Hemingway to have taken - from hunting to privilege to news outrage, and distinguishing between Hemingway as a stylist and Hemingway as a humanist writing with a certain style is difficult, at least for many LLMs over the last few years. Grok 4.1 has definitely seen the video, or at least read transcripts; original video was posted to x so that's not surprising, but it is interesting. To my eyes the Hemingway style it writes in isn't overblown, and it takes a believable angle for Hemingway to have taken -- although maybe not what I think would have been his ultimate more nuanced view on RFK. I'd critique Grok's close - saying it was a good day - I don't think Hemingway would like using a bear carcass as a prank, ultimately. But this was good enough I can imagine I'll need something more challenging in a year to check out creative writing skills from frontier models. https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5LWNvcHk_92bf5248-18e1-4f8a-882a-901b7c6afdd4 https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5LWNvcHk_92bf5248-18e1-4f8a-88...

cpldcpu 1y ago

Not a big fan of emojis becoming the norm in LLM output. It seems Grok 4.1 uses more emojis than 4. Also GPT5.1 thinking is now using emojis, even in math reasoning. 5 didn't do that.

afavour 1y ago
Taking a step back I'm kind of fascinated by the introduction of emojis into our language as a whole new lexicon of punctuation and what that’ll mean for language in the future. …but I’m still infuriated when I read a passage full of them.
- packetlost 1y ago
  I'm not sure that I would call them punctuation but they're certainly an interesting pictographic addition. I think they're great, but I too get irritated when not used judiciously.
  - devin 1y ago
    To me, their usage is akin to to turning a plaintext file into rtf. Emojis do not look the same across platforms. Generated text should default to the generic IMO.
    - viraptor 1y ago
      Ok. :green-checkmark:
    - packetlost 1y ago
      Plain text doesn't look the same across platforms for the same reason emojis don't, what's your point? At a technical level, it's no different than a plaintext doc with Chinese (or almost any other non-latin script) characters in it. It's still just a linear stream of text encoding with no specific structure beyond that.
- mlindner 1y ago
  There's a reason they were a Japanese language invention because the idea of "symbols = meaning" is not something that would have likely natively happened in English, at least to a wide extent. We would have still been writing :-)

cheald 1y ago

Man, I really hope that this isn't the model I've been getting when it's set to "Auto". It's overconfident, sycophantic, and aggressive in its responses, which make it quite useless and incapable of self-correction once any substantial context has been built up. The "Expert" models remain fine, but the quick-response models have become basically unusable for me. I'm afraid it probably is.

icameron 1y ago
Yeah it’s really kinda overconfident, aggressive and rude I’ve found. It says it has a solution to a problem caused by Microsoft updade November 2025 and “hundreds of users have been using it for 6 months” obviously that’s impossible
- cheald 1y ago
  That's very similar to what I've been experiencing. "This is the best solution, it's what everyone uses" when I know for a fact that it's actually not. Very disappointing when you're trying to solve actual problems.
thebigspacefuck 1y ago
Yeah Grok became really shitty recently and I switched back to ChatGPT, I wonder if this is why
never_inline 1y ago
Just create a project and add instructions to be terse, efficient, to the point.

hereme888 1y ago

Dominating LM Arena's writing leaderboard. Seems other areas not yet reported. Congrats X.ai team

mysterEFrank 1y ago

Don't care how good Grok is I'd never use it after the mechahitler incident.

andrewinardeer 1y ago
This is one of the reasons it is my daily go-to LLM. It shows that the x.ai team is responsive and moves quickly. x.ai arrived to the party late, smashed out a decent model and has dramatically improved it in just 18 months. They have the talent, the infra, the funds and real-time access to X posts. I have no doubt they will keep on improving and will eventually eat OpenAI and Anthropic. Google is the only other big player who really is a threat.

bgwalter 1y ago

It is more stiff, woke (what Musk would call it) and uppity. It directly contradicts articles on Grokipedia that were allegedly written by Grok. Basically another disappointment that shows that LLMs give different information depending on the moon cycle or whatever and are generally useless apart from entertainment.

AaronAPU 1y ago

It is exhausting deciding which model to use on any given day.

pogue 1y ago
Maybe we need an AI that picks which AI for us to use
- PhilippGille 1y ago
  https://openrouter.ai/openrouter/auto https://openrouter.ai/openrouter/auto > Your prompt will be processed by a meta-model and routed to one of dozens of models (see below), optimizing for the best possible output.
  - pogue 1y ago
    How does it determine which model to send it too? There's a lack of details in the url. Maybe they're not even sure? :)
    - theshrike79 1y ago
      Most likely some custom model that evaluates the prompt and figures out the best target. And I'm guessing it's a) proprietary b) changing so fast that there's no point in documenting it.
      - pogue 1y ago
        I don't know why you'd choose to use it if you had no idea what it's doing differently. It could just be a round robin/random picker, or based on which of their APIs aren't getting used much.
        theshrike79 1y ago
        And then you're sending massive refactoring tasks to a model that can't handle them and waste money on Claude 4.5 when the user asks the model to edit the readme There has to be some kind of evaluation, it _can_ be just good old if statements. But it's definitely not a "what's cheapest" round robin =)

Frannky 1y ago

It's working pretty badly for me. I ask it to code stuff, and nothing works. Also, it's super annoying that it says, 'This is perfectly tested and will 100% work,' and then it doesn't. Huge waste of time. Make Grok great again—Grok 3 was awesome!

bgwalter 1y ago
I think Grok got worse after Musk fired the data annotation team in September and installed another young genius: https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-xai-layoffs-data-annotators-2025-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-xai-layoffs-data-a... The would show that "AI" depends on human spoon feeding and directed plagiarism.
- Frannky 1y ago
  For sure, something happened. Grok 3 was awesome to work with. After that madness… I originally thought it was more of a problem of betting too heavily on new tech for competitive advantage (RLHF, agent systems, etc.) and accepting worse results in the process. But in the meantime, the usefulness of the LLM has gone downhill. Way slower, way more steps, and you're getting something worse than Grok 3—at least in my day-to-day experience :(
  - barrell 1y ago
    Yep also a grok 3 supporter. I actually liked GPT-4 Turbo and Claude 3, and have found each successive update substantially more useless. Grok 3 came out and it was a bit of that original magic... but seems to have went the way of the other models. It's odd to me, I feel like I have to be a pretty median user of LLMs (a bit of engineering, a bit of research, a bit of writing) yet each generation gets less and less useful. I think they all focus way too much on finding a 'right' answer. I like LLMs for their ability to replicate divergent thinking. If I want a 'right' answer, I'm not going to even have an LLM in my toolbox :/
    - Frannky 1y ago

agasertgegA 1y ago

[dead]

Alifatisk 1y ago

We'll see how it performs on artificial analysis

zombot 1y ago

Racism and white supremacy as a service.