7 ms·

Substituted amphetamines were already very popular in the 1950s.

by gnatman 11mo ago

cassepipe 11mo ago
... and I didn't know about them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_amphetamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_amphetamine The most famous in that family seems to be meth(amphetamine)
- Nursie 11mo ago
  You've probably also heard of 3,4-Methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, though its abbreviated name (MDMA) is likely more familiar. It's a huuuuuge family of substances though, particularly if you go one step more generic and start with Phenylethylamine as the backbone (amphetamine is a shortening of alpha-methyl-phenethylamine), the family includes hallucinogens like mescaline, empathogens like MDMA and its close cousins, the whole 2C family, the cathinones and their derivatives ('mephedrone' had a cultural moment 10-15 years back). And some real nasties like PMA, PMMA and bromo-Dragonfly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_phenethylamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_phenethylamine
  - cassepipe 11mo ago
    Interesting, I didn't know they were cousins !
mhurron 11mo ago
And had been researched treat symptoms of depression and what would eventually be called ADHD in the 1930's.
- RobotToaster 11mo ago
  Benzedrine (an amphetamine inhaler) was the first antidepressant marketed (although at the time I believe they used the term "psychic energizer" for antidepressants)
thatoneguy 11mo ago
Methamphetamine was invented in Germany in 1937 and the German military at the time was very quick to adopt its use.
- consumer451 11mo ago
  An army of tweakers. I don't think that this aspect of the War and the Holocaust are discussed enough. Certainly no excuse, but it is very interesting. > Chronic Meth users have deficits in memory and executive functioning as well as higher rates of anxiety, depression, and most notably psychosis. [0] In more recent times of horror: > After the fall of the al-Assad regime in Syria, large stockpiles of the illicit drug captagon have reportedly been uncovered. > The stockpiles, found by Syrian rebels, are believed to be linked to al-Assad military headquarters, implicating the fallen regime in the drug’s manufacture and distribution. [1] [0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3764482/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3764482/ [1] https://theconversation.com/what-is-the-drug-captagon-and-how-is-it-linked-to-syrias-fallen-assad-regime-245935 https://theconversation.com/what-is-the-drug-captagon-and-ho...
  - Melatonic 11mo ago
    Im sure eventually whatever pills the Germans were taking back then were bad for you but I would imagine smoking huge doses of not so pure street meth is quite a bit different than something created in a lab. That being said if anyone uses drugs to avoid sleeping for many days straight I would imagine it's quite horrible for your mental health
    - DANmode 11mo ago
      So…not that different.
    - 3eb7988a1663 11mo ago
      Considering the soldiers were already extremely high risk for lead poisoning, might have been low on the list of concerns.
  - 11mo ago
kragen 11mo ago
Adderall is just regular amphetamine, not even a substituted amphetamine.
- temp0826 11mo ago
  It's a mix of 4 different amphetamines
  - kragen 11mo ago
    Two, but those are just the enantiomers dextroamphetamine and levoamphetamine. Neither has any atoms extra or missing. It looks like four amphetamines because those two cationic isomers are in salts with two different anions.
    - temp0826 11mo ago
      Each enantiomer exhibits different effects so I don't know if that is relevant. (Even if you count dextroamphetamine sulfate and amphetamine sulfate as one, I'd still probably call it 3 because dextroamphetamine saccharate and amphetamine asparate monohydrate (the other two parts of adderall) do indeed have different forumlas).
      - kragen 11mo ago
        If you synthesize amphetamine through the usual pathways, as I understand it, you get a racemic mixture, which is what is normally meant by unqualified "amphetamine", and is very close to Adderall. It's true that levoamphetamine is not really active at all in this context. As I understand it, the aspartate and saccharate still dissociate in solution. If so, there isn't much of a plausible reason to consider them different drugs. If not, they might act more slowly or not at all. None of this puts Adderall in the class of substituted amphetamines like MDMA or Desoxyn or exotics like ALEPH: https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal003.shtml https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal003...

Substituted amphetamines were already very popular in the 1950s.

by gnatman 11mo ago

Substituted amphetamines were already very popular in the 1950s.

... and I didn't know about them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_amphetamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_amphetamine The most famous in that family seems to be meth(amphetamine)

Nursie 11mo ago
You've probably also heard of 3,4-Methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, though its abbreviated name (MDMA) is likely more familiar. It's a huuuuuge family of substances though, particularly if you go one step more generic and start with Phenylethylamine as the backbone (amphetamine is a shortening of alpha-methyl-phenethylamine), the family includes hallucinogens like mescaline, empathogens like MDMA and its close cousins, the whole 2C family, the cathinones and their derivatives ('mephedrone' had a cultural moment 10-15 years back). And some real nasties like PMA, PMMA and bromo-Dragonfly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_phenethylamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substituted_phenethylamine
- cassepipe 11mo ago
  Interesting, I didn't know they were cousins !

mhurron 11mo ago

And had been researched treat symptoms of depression and what would eventually be called ADHD in the 1930's.

RobotToaster 11mo ago
Benzedrine (an amphetamine inhaler) was the first antidepressant marketed (although at the time I believe they used the term "psychic energizer" for antidepressants)

thatoneguy 11mo ago

Methamphetamine was invented in Germany in 1937 and the German military at the time was very quick to adopt its use.

consumer451 11mo ago
An army of tweakers. I don't think that this aspect of the War and the Holocaust are discussed enough. Certainly no excuse, but it is very interesting. > Chronic Meth users have deficits in memory and executive functioning as well as higher rates of anxiety, depression, and most notably psychosis. [0] In more recent times of horror: > After the fall of the al-Assad regime in Syria, large stockpiles of the illicit drug captagon have reportedly been uncovered. > The stockpiles, found by Syrian rebels, are believed to be linked to al-Assad military headquarters, implicating the fallen regime in the drug’s manufacture and distribution. [1] [0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3764482/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3764482/ [1] https://theconversation.com/what-is-the-drug-captagon-and-how-is-it-linked-to-syrias-fallen-assad-regime-245935 https://theconversation.com/what-is-the-drug-captagon-and-ho...
- Melatonic 11mo ago
  Im sure eventually whatever pills the Germans were taking back then were bad for you but I would imagine smoking huge doses of not so pure street meth is quite a bit different than something created in a lab. That being said if anyone uses drugs to avoid sleeping for many days straight I would imagine it's quite horrible for your mental health
  - DANmode 11mo ago
    So…not that different.
  - 3eb7988a1663 11mo ago
    Considering the soldiers were already extremely high risk for lead poisoning, might have been low on the list of concerns.
- 11mo ago

kragen 11mo ago

Adderall is just regular amphetamine, not even a substituted amphetamine.

temp0826 11mo ago
It's a mix of 4 different amphetamines
- kragen 11mo ago
  Two, but those are just the enantiomers dextroamphetamine and levoamphetamine. Neither has any atoms extra or missing. It looks like four amphetamines because those two cationic isomers are in salts with two different anions.
  - temp0826 11mo ago
    Each enantiomer exhibits different effects so I don't know if that is relevant. (Even if you count dextroamphetamine sulfate and amphetamine sulfate as one, I'd still probably call it 3 because dextroamphetamine saccharate and amphetamine asparate monohydrate (the other two parts of adderall) do indeed have different forumlas).
    - kragen 11mo ago
      If you synthesize amphetamine through the usual pathways, as I understand it, you get a racemic mixture, which is what is normally meant by unqualified "amphetamine", and is very close to Adderall. It's true that levoamphetamine is not really active at all in this context. As I understand it, the aspartate and saccharate still dissociate in solution. If so, there isn't much of a plausible reason to consider them different drugs. If not, they might act more slowly or not at all. None of this puts Adderall in the class of substituted amphetamines like MDMA or Desoxyn or exotics like ALEPH: https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal003.shtml https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal003...