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You can now buy used Ford vehicles on Amazon
- freedomben 11mo agoThis is great news. I look forward to a day when I never have to talk to a salesperson again. > Forty-eight states have laws that limit or ban manufacturers from selling vehicles directly to consumers Why on earth is this a law? (I mean besides the obvious lobbying efforts and likely scare-mongering from powerful auto dealers) Is there an actual reason/benefit for this though for consumers?
- everdrive 11mo ago>(I mean besides the obvious lobbying efforts and likely scare-mongering from powerful auto dealers) This is the only reason so far as I understand it.
- lordnacho 11mo agoYou'd think Amazon would apply lobbying power to enable new car sales?
- s1mplicissimus 11mo agoI would never expect amazon to perform any unethical behavior at all, because amazon is an honorable company
- ortusdux 11mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture
- Kirby64 11mo agoThese laws are anachronisms back when they didn’t want manufacturers directly selling vehicles to consumers because there was a fear (or maybe, an experience?) with manufacturers selling vehicles without any reasonable ability to get parts, repairs, etc. Nowadays with nationwide fast shipping and the internet these aren’t really problems… but in the 1950s I could see how there would be some benefits to having a dealership near you.
- SoftTalker 11mo agoIt was more protection for local dealers, to avoid the manufacturer coming in to a market that the dealer had developed and undercutting them.
- jvanderbot 11mo agoYes, but that's the first layer. The second layer is "Why would we care about undercutting local dealers"? And there are good reasons to avoid undercutting, not just greed, as is often the case.
- freedomben 11mo agoDo you think there still are, or just were?
- SoftTalker 11mo agoI think Ford would be happy to sell a car direct and pocket at least some of the commission they otherwise pay to the dealership. But they sort of need dealers also, to do local marketing, help customers who want hand-holding, and to provide warranty/recall service.
- ch4s3 11mo agoThey were merely well organized and. connected to state legislatures. It's just regulatory capture.
- dh2022 11mo agoIn my view if the local dealers will go to hell in a hand basket I won’t shed a tear. Michael’s Subaru of Bellevue couldn’t tighten some gasket under the car and my car was leaking oil after the oil change. When I took the car to the dealership they said it was because of my car being too old (older Subarus have indeed a problem with oil leaks). The guy behind the counter looked like he had anger management problems with my request to take another look. So yeah, if Amazon will put these dealerships out of business - good riddance.
- BugsJustFindMe 11mo ago> Why on earth is this a law? Generously, protecting local labor is important in an environment that demands labor for survival and where considering alternative systems of providing for people is verboten. This is a confederation-level version of protections against offshoring jobs. Whether the jobs add value or not is its own dilemma.
- Arainach 11mo agoVertical integration is, in general, bad for competition and often bad for consumers. There can be benefits, but too much control limits availability of parts, confuses incentives, etc.
- zer00eyz 11mo ago> Vertical integration is, in general, bad for competition and often bad for consumers. This is a gross misunderstanding of what vertical integration is. YKK zippers makes an unbeatable product because of vertical integration. A lack of vertical integration means that you're subject to the whims of larger markets (and increased interest and costs at every step). The flip side to this is "control nothing". Buy the building your office is in and own an asset, or get a triple net lease and then pay margin on top of that. Own your own hardware or pay AWS to have 30percent profit margins...
- pessimizer 11mo ago> YKK zippers makes an unbeatable product because of vertical integration. YKK zippers make an unbeatable product because they are a monopoly.
- verall 11mo agoA monopoly in the market for YKK branded zippers? One can buy zippers from lots of different manufacturers.
- zer00eyz 11mo agohttps://idealfastener.com/zippers/ https://idealfastener.com/zippers/ Also makes great zippers. They are more vertically integrated than most of their other competitors.
- Arainach 11mo ago(Potentially) making a better product does not mean better for a consumer, especially when a company has a dominant share of the marketplace. It potentially means you can only get parts going through the company that sells the complete product. It potentially means that you have to pay whatever price the company sets because they control the distribution pipeline.
- ceejayoz 11mo ago> Why on earth is this a law? Car dealerships tend to be keystone businesses in towns; they wind up with outsized political power on the state and local level.
- scrumper 11mo agoIt stems from franchise law which exists to give franchisees a modicum of protection from adverse practices by the much stronger party in the relationship.
- ceejayoz 11mo agoI'm sure that's a part of it, but I'm of the opinion that car dealers and other really local business owners like them are the modern equivalent of the landed gentry. Locally powerful people can have a lot of leverage, even against a much bigger national-level entity.
- dragonwriter 11mo agoThey were adopted in the mid-20th Century when franchised dealers the norm but manyfacturers would use threat (backed by follow-through if the threat wasn’t successful) of opening direct competing manufacturer-owned dealerships to coerce franchise dealers practices, to take that practice off the table.
- cvoss 11mo agoIt's true of beer, too. In a lot of states (decreasingly so), breweries cannot sell beer directly to consumers, or even retailers. I once paid for a tour of a brewery, where the price of admission also covered a souvenir glass. The brewery would then give you a few pours of "free beer". They emphasized that they were definitely not selling me any beer.
- imglorp 11mo ago> Starting today, customers can browse, finance, and purchase certified pre-owned Ford vehicles online through Amazon Autos, with in-person pickup at a local Ford dealership. This whole thing sounds like dealership with extra steps and a middleman fee.
- dawnerd 11mo agoWould love to see how much pressure is put onto purchasing addons from the local dealers. I remember reading people running into that when picking up their Lightnings.
- SoftTalker 11mo ago"We had us a deal here for nine-teen-five. You sat there and darned if you didn't tell me you'd get this car, these options, without the sealant, for nine-teen-five!" "Yeah but that TruCoat.... Lemme talk to my boss..."
- rdtsc 11mo agoWonder if there an opportunity there to set up distribution in the few states that don't have that law and make everything easy online - out of state registration, delivery (for a fee). The dealerships in the 48 states will probably sue the manufacturers, they are not just going to let it slide, I suspect.
- geodel 11mo agoAgree. Dealing with Amazon customer support is such a great experience and it keeps on improving every time I reach out to them.
- apparent 11mo agoI can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. I remember when their customer service was truly great, about 20 years ago. Now it is not great, but still much better than car dealers, IMO.
- rchaud 11mo agoWhen did you last use their support? 15 years ago, I needed to click 1 button to chat with support instantly about a faulty iPod I bought. They issued a refund and return mail label instantly. 3 months ago, I had to navigate multiple froms and dropdowns to even reach a chat representative. And when I did, they had none of the information I spent several minutes filling out. The rep then grilled me about my order, seemingly incredulous that Amazon had sent me a "new" product that was clearly used and repackaged when I opened it (this has been common for years as Amazon commingles its own stock with that of 3rd party sellers).
- apparent 11mo agoFWIW I find Amazon's phone support to be faster than the chat stuff. It's usually just a couple mins, most of which time you're on hold while they're fixing it. My wife hates dealing with returns, but I find that it's usually no big deal, and often they'll give you $5 or $10 for your trouble, if things don't get sorted out the first time (which seems to be about 10% of the time).
- HeyLaughingBoy 11mo ago? I've returned two items from Amazon in the last year and in both cases, all I had to do was click on the "Return" button and drop it off at my local UPS Store. Why did you need to talk to support?
- rchaud 11mo ago
- monooso 11mo agoWhen public transport ground to a halt during COVID, I suddenly needed a car. I bought one online via Cinch [1]. No haggling, no hassle, and it was delivered to my door a few days later. I have no intention of entering a car dealership ever again. [1] https://www.cinch.co.uk/ https://www.cinch.co.uk/
- kulahan 11mo agoI did the same thing with Carvana. The experience was wonderful until after I got the car. They waxed the stupid thing with the windows down. There was wax in random places EVERYWHERE in the car. I asked for money for an internal detailing (I was willing to just deal with the external part having the worst buff job I've ever seen). They offered $75 and the lady on the phone said she could get her SUV detailed for that much. In Texas. Anyways, in the end, you can get them to do almost anything by simply saying you want to return the car. That's pretty damn expensive and something they have no choice but to honor. Still, if you don't know this trick, it's a good way for these guys to be sneaky. This would've been easier for me to deal with if I could just physically bring it in somewhere and say "give it back clean". That being said, I also understand you have better consumer protections in the UK, so maybe things are different for you.
- m463 11mo agoDid you find this at the time of delivery? Or was this something you found out afterwards? I would assume "decline to accept" is different than "return car", is that true?
- kulahan 11mo agoYes - declining to accept happens at the delivery truck itself. Once you've accepted it, you have a small window of time (1-2 weeks?) to return it. To do that, they have to send a truck back out to pick it up. I think it's because of some law in the US requiring a grace period to return cars. One of the best consumer protection laws in the US, in my experience. I saved a lot of young military guys a lot of money by forcing them to return their 22% APR, 0% equity, brand-new, street demon car and get something vaguely reasonable.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 11mo agoThey are "used" cars. I hate it when marketing departments try and manipulate the language. I hate it worse when everyone else just goes along with it.
- mschulkind 11mo agoExcept generally pre-owned is short for certified pre-owned like it is here, which means you get a much better warranty than buying on the used market.
- barbazoo 11mo agoI remember a time when it was "certified used".
- patwolf 11mo agoMost dealership websites in the US list cars as New, Pre-Owned or Certified Pre-Owned, meaning Certified is distinct from Pre-Owned.
- SoftTalker 11mo agoYou're paying for that warranty though. If you really want one, you can buy one yourself from one of several competing aftermarket warranty companies. Used car dealers suck, in every way. They add zero value other than having a selection of cars in one place, and possibly a selection of lenders for financing if you need that. They also know every trick in the book to get you to pay more for the car than it is really worth. Best way if you have a little time to do research and watch the local market is to buy a car from a private seller.
- dmix 11mo agoThe car websites will also clean/inspect the cars and ship the car to your house which is nice if the car you want is not near where you live But yes generally my experience with https://clutch.ca https://clutch.ca was they push you to some expensive financing deal through their people.
- tencentshill 11mo ago>Amazon’s platform will be the middleman between the customer and the dealership It's just a lead generator like any other. Why did Amazon choose to enter that market?
- FanaHOVA 11mo agoBecause they make $60B/yr on advertising and car sales is a very valuable ad market.
- Night_Thastus 11mo agoWhile I really like the idea of buying a NEW car direct from the manufacturer, a used car from Amazon is significantly less appealing - both for the consumer and Amazon. * If Amazon spends the appropriate time researching into each car's history, properly inspecting and repairing any defects and working with customers if there are problems - they will not make a net profit. Not 'maybe', they won't. * If Amazon doesn't have due diligence, people will get cars with endless problems, Amazon will be covered in bad press, and the whole thing will collapse due to low demand. Plus, unlike buying a new car where inspection doesn't matter nearly as much - buying online gives you 0 way to really look at it yourself and take it to a local mechanic to have it inspected. (Which I am EXTREMELY glad I did, I nearly bought a car that would have been a disaster) I suspect this effort will last maybe a year and a half at best. Cars are bulky, heavy, expensive, and lose value quickly with age. Even new, the competition is so tight and logistics so hard that it's a nightmare. Used cars are so much worse an industry to work in.
- linuxftw 11mo agoIf people are foolish enough to buy used cars from Carvana, they'll be foolish enough to buy from Amazon too.
- kotaKat 11mo agoNothing wrong with Carvana if you use due diligence. Bought an ‘18 Fusion Hybrid in mid-2019 that I was able to trace back to Avis’s rental fleet before it went unsold by Avis to CVNA into their sales pool. (Figured at the time that the ‘hybrids’ cost more to rent, and anyone getting one as part of an upgrade would have treated it better than an econobox. Paid off quite nicely.) It was a reasonable price at the time and I’m sure as hell glad I don’t have to go back into the used car market now with how stagnant the prices got.
- zerocrates 11mo agoSince they go through the dealers it's probably just the dealers' existing "certified pre-owned" scheme.
- niwtsol 11mo agoIf I go to amazon autos, I see more than just Hyundai and Ford pre-owned certified cars for sale - I see toyota, chevrolet, kia, jeep, honda, etc. I guess this announcement is an official partnership with Ford corporate, but I assume smaller dealerships could have integrated before this.
- apparent 11mo agoNotably only in a few cities, at present.
- bradlys 11mo agoThis didn’t seem to work with a bunch of other startups out there. Carvana, shift, beepi, etc. These startups were all the rage in 2016. I bought my car off of Shift (wonderful experience in 2016) for such a low price that my credit union heard the price I was buying it for and immediately went, “oh, honey, I’m so sorry. We can’t give loans for a salvage vehicle.” She looked at the carfax and was dumbfounded how it had a clean title, no accidents, etc. and was not just cheaper than blue book for a dealer but cheaper than for a private party by a significant margin.
- knowitnone3 11mo agoLast thing I bought from Amazon are 36" wide shelf which was not 36" wide. There is SO much shit on Amazon it's ridiculous.