7 ms·

That would make sense. Less trade. Fewer workers in UK etc. Was it worth it? (Dont know... dont have too much dog in fight)

femiagbabiaka 1y ago
No
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
A_D_E_P_T 1y ago
> Was it worth it? Though I know yours is a rhetorical question, I'll answer: No. Brexit was essentially an anti-immigration and pro-deregulation movement. Simple small-c conservatism. (It was also anti-status-quo, but that was implicit.) The, uh, "Conservatives" who were tasked with implementing Brexit supercharged immigration and, with considerable assistance from the EU, doubled down on ridiculous social and business regulations, paperwork, and red tape. There was no upside. They just made everything much worse. I know that they expected the Brexit vote to fail, and I think there's a term for their subsequent actions: "Malicious compliance." Now England is a powder keg if there ever was one. If things are going to kick off, it'll happen there first. As Weimar as America is these days, England is worse.
- TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
  The immigration betrayal was obvious to anyone familiar with UK history. It's how the ruling class works. They import cheap labour from the (former) colonies to drive down wages. Then they pay their puppet politicians to hyperventilate about how terrible immigration is, how filthy these foreigners are, and how it Must Be Stopped. It's been happening for centuries - the same scam, over and over.
  - A_D_E_P_T 1y ago
    Are you joking? Estimates are that between 1870 and 1913 net emigration of British citizens averaged about 131,000 per year, i.e. more people left the UK than arrived: >https://docs.iza.org/dp81.pdf https://docs.iza.org/dp81.pdf In the 1881 census of England and Wales, "natives of foreign states" were 174,372 people, just 0.671% of the population. In the 19th century, England was a country of emigrants, with net migration at roughly -100k/year. From 2014–24, you're looking at typically +200k to +900k per year. This is totally unprecedented to put it mildly. And now, like it or not, I'm sure that things are going to get ugly.
  - throwawayqqq11 1y ago
    Quick bias check: Do migrants or employers drive down wages?
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
- relling 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - A_D_E_P_T 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - piva00 1y ago
      > that wasn't flying a rainbow flag whilst watching three year olds I don't understand, what's the problem with that exactly?
      - gedy 1y ago
        My interpretation was they meant daycares that are pushing social/gender causes to fairly small children
        kanbara 1y ago
        as if straight / white causes in most western nations aren't "pushed" by default. it's ok to know that gay people exist and that christianity is not the be-all-end-all of cultural practices.
        relling 1y ago
        [flagged]
        acdha 1y ago
        Nazis are bad because they deny other people’s freedom to exist. That LGBTQ flag doesn’t say straight people are wrong or shouldn’t exist. Literally all it’s saying is that people are welcome to exist publicly as their true selves. The odds are high that those kids know someone who falls under that umbrella, and this is an age appropriate way to say that’s okay just as straight people’s mating habits are discussed at the level of “mommy and daddy loved each other so much they got married and had you”.
- crote 1y ago
  The main problem is that Brexit Meant Brexit: the Leave camp was promoting a dozen different and contradictory goals at the same time, and every pro-Leaver was free to cherry-pick their own interpretation of Brexit from it. This obviously led to a massive issue when they actually won: you simply can't have your cake and eat it - especially when it involves another foreign power! There is no universe in which it would've been possible for the UK to completely detach itself from all EU rules, while still retaining completely free transit of goods, while also taxing import certain goods for protectionist reasons. Similarly it was never going to be possible for UK citizens to retain unlimited visa-free travel to the Schengen area while retaining the possibility for the UK to arbitrarily block access to certain groups of EU citizens. The most obvious example of this is Northern Ireland: you can't leave the Common Market, and keep an open border between NI and RoI (thus not blowing up the Good Friday agreement and not starting another civil war), and keep an open border between NI and GB (thus not partially giving up sovereignty and suggesting acceptance of a slow move towards a united Ireland). Failing to deliver on all three at once (as promised piecemeal by various pro-Leave people) isn't malicious compliance - it's reality. Something has to yield, and if you don't decide up-front you'll of course get a nasty surprise later on.
simonw 1y ago
As a British citizen I also lost the right to live and work in 27 countries in the EU. Thanks for that.
- cedws 1y ago
  As a 24 year old this is the biggest kick in the teeth, and I had no say in the matter because I wasn't old enough to vote. Apparently the EU is in discussion with the UK to continue the Youth Mobility Scheme - I hope it happens.
- st1ck 1y ago
  It's a good opportunity to experience what most people on Earth have to deal with. Please don't take it personally Simon, it's just that your compatriots tend to be the most entitled people I've met.
  - simonw 1y ago
    I loved being entitled to live and work in the whole of the EU. Sadly my compatriots apparently didn't value that at all. It was barely an issue in the Brexit public discourse before the vote.
    - disgruntledphd2 11mo ago
      I think people didn't realize that they wouldn't be able to retire to Spain, tbh.
  - alimw 11mo ago
    It should be possible to complain about the downsides of a political action without being called entitled.
- mike_hearn 11mo ago
  You did not. You can immigrate to those countries via the usual application process, which is exactly what you did when you chose to live in America.
epistasis 1y ago
If you're an older person who's secure and has a pension and whose biggest problem is fear of other people, then this costs you almost nothing and probably alleviates your fears. If you're younger, heeeeeeelllllllll no.
beejiu 1y ago
The impact on trade is almost entirely in goods and the UK is >80% services. Services is basically unaffected by Brexit. (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2025/765767/EPRS_BRI(2025)765767_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2025/7657...) Hits on GDP aren't felt equally across the population. > Fewer workers in UK etc. You mean fewer European workers. The UK has far more workers today since the post-Covid migration wave.
OliveMate 1y ago
> Was it worth it? I can only give anecdotes, but the majority of the support I saw for leaving the EU wasn't rooted in hard economics – there were claims about doing our own free trade deals and having an extra £350 Million being spent on the NHS instead, but that was about it. A lot of support centred around how our culture & history ought to be perceived, limiting migration, and not having faith/trust in the EU and our Governments. Again anecdotes, but the most common reprieve I hear from Leave supporters is that leaving would've been great if not for 1) the years of political deadlock 2) Johnson's deal being naff. For most of us life hasn't improved since leaving (the pandemic right after didn't help); and after the promises about the sunlit uplands if we left, I don't think anything short of a miracle would make it feel like it was worth it. I think the only people who feel like it was worth it were those who voted Leave through a culture/prestiege lens and put the fact that we left above everything else.
- hdgvhicv 1y ago
  The guy who voted Brexit because he was fine with German and Polish immigrants who came to the U.K. and worked but he didn’t want Iraqi and Syrian refugees told me everything I needed to know about democracy.
  - Sabinus 11mo ago
    Please point out the non-democracy where all citizens have enlightened views on race and culture.
    - hdgvhicv 11mo ago
      It was more about how he voted against his expressed wishes. He was ok with eu immigration but not non eu immigration, so he voted for less eu immigration.
- ponector 11mo ago
  >> A lot of support centred around how our culture & history ought to be perceived, limiting migration In reality they voted to replace immigration from EU with immigration from other countries. I guess it is better for UK culture to have more Asian people instead of European.
mike_hearn 11mo ago
There isn't less trade. Trade volume with the EU continued on its long term trend.

femiagbabiaka 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

A_D_E_P_T 1y ago

> Was it worth it? Though I know yours is a rhetorical question, I'll answer: No. Brexit was essentially an anti-immigration and pro-deregulation movement. Simple small-c conservatism. (It was also anti-status-quo, but that was implicit.) The, uh, "Conservatives" who were tasked with implementing Brexit supercharged immigration and, with considerable assistance from the EU, doubled down on ridiculous social and business regulations, paperwork, and red tape. There was no upside. They just made everything much worse. I know that they expected the Brexit vote to fail, and I think there's a term for their subsequent actions: "Malicious compliance." Now England is a powder keg if there ever was one. If things are going to kick off, it'll happen there first. As Weimar as America is these days, England is worse.

TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
The immigration betrayal was obvious to anyone familiar with UK history. It's how the ruling class works. They import cheap labour from the (former) colonies to drive down wages. Then they pay their puppet politicians to hyperventilate about how terrible immigration is, how filthy these foreigners are, and how it Must Be Stopped. It's been happening for centuries - the same scam, over and over.
- A_D_E_P_T 1y ago
  Are you joking? Estimates are that between 1870 and 1913 net emigration of British citizens averaged about 131,000 per year, i.e. more people left the UK than arrived: >https://docs.iza.org/dp81.pdf https://docs.iza.org/dp81.pdf In the 1881 census of England and Wales, "natives of foreign states" were 174,372 people, just 0.671% of the population. In the 19th century, England was a country of emigrants, with net migration at roughly -100k/year. From 2014–24, you're looking at typically +200k to +900k per year. This is totally unprecedented to put it mildly. And now, like it or not, I'm sure that things are going to get ugly.
- throwawayqqq11 1y ago
  Quick bias check: Do migrants or employers drive down wages?
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
relling 1y ago
[flagged]
- A_D_E_P_T 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - piva00 1y ago
    > that wasn't flying a rainbow flag whilst watching three year olds I don't understand, what's the problem with that exactly?
    - gedy 1y ago
      My interpretation was they meant daycares that are pushing social/gender causes to fairly small children
      - kanbara 1y ago
        as if straight / white causes in most western nations aren't "pushed" by default. it's ok to know that gay people exist and that christianity is not the be-all-end-all of cultural practices.
        relling 1y ago
        [flagged]
        acdha 1y ago
        Nazis are bad because they deny other people’s freedom to exist. That LGBTQ flag doesn’t say straight people are wrong or shouldn’t exist. Literally all it’s saying is that people are welcome to exist publicly as their true selves. The odds are high that those kids know someone who falls under that umbrella, and this is an age appropriate way to say that’s okay just as straight people’s mating habits are discussed at the level of “mommy and daddy loved each other so much they got married and had you”.
crote 1y ago
The main problem is that Brexit Meant Brexit: the Leave camp was promoting a dozen different and contradictory goals at the same time, and every pro-Leaver was free to cherry-pick their own interpretation of Brexit from it. This obviously led to a massive issue when they actually won: you simply can't have your cake and eat it - especially when it involves another foreign power! There is no universe in which it would've been possible for the UK to completely detach itself from all EU rules, while still retaining completely free transit of goods, while also taxing import certain goods for protectionist reasons. Similarly it was never going to be possible for UK citizens to retain unlimited visa-free travel to the Schengen area while retaining the possibility for the UK to arbitrarily block access to certain groups of EU citizens. The most obvious example of this is Northern Ireland: you can't leave the Common Market, and keep an open border between NI and RoI (thus not blowing up the Good Friday agreement and not starting another civil war), and keep an open border between NI and GB (thus not partially giving up sovereignty and suggesting acceptance of a slow move towards a united Ireland). Failing to deliver on all three at once (as promised piecemeal by various pro-Leave people) isn't malicious compliance - it's reality. Something has to yield, and if you don't decide up-front you'll of course get a nasty surprise later on.

simonw 1y ago

As a British citizen I also lost the right to live and work in 27 countries in the EU. Thanks for that.

cedws 1y ago
As a 24 year old this is the biggest kick in the teeth, and I had no say in the matter because I wasn't old enough to vote. Apparently the EU is in discussion with the UK to continue the Youth Mobility Scheme - I hope it happens.
st1ck 1y ago
It's a good opportunity to experience what most people on Earth have to deal with. Please don't take it personally Simon, it's just that your compatriots tend to be the most entitled people I've met.
- simonw 1y ago
  I loved being entitled to live and work in the whole of the EU. Sadly my compatriots apparently didn't value that at all. It was barely an issue in the Brexit public discourse before the vote.
  - disgruntledphd2 11mo ago
    I think people didn't realize that they wouldn't be able to retire to Spain, tbh.
- alimw 11mo ago
  It should be possible to complain about the downsides of a political action without being called entitled.
mike_hearn 11mo ago
You did not. You can immigrate to those countries via the usual application process, which is exactly what you did when you chose to live in America.

epistasis 1y ago

If you're an older person who's secure and has a pension and whose biggest problem is fear of other people, then this costs you almost nothing and probably alleviates your fears. If you're younger, heeeeeeelllllllll no.

beejiu 1y ago

The impact on trade is almost entirely in goods and the UK is >80% services. Services is basically unaffected by Brexit. (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2025/765767/EPRS_BRI(2025)765767_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2025/7657...) Hits on GDP aren't felt equally across the population. > Fewer workers in UK etc. You mean fewer European workers. The UK has far more workers today since the post-Covid migration wave.

OliveMate 1y ago

> Was it worth it? I can only give anecdotes, but the majority of the support I saw for leaving the EU wasn't rooted in hard economics – there were claims about doing our own free trade deals and having an extra £350 Million being spent on the NHS instead, but that was about it. A lot of support centred around how our culture & history ought to be perceived, limiting migration, and not having faith/trust in the EU and our Governments. Again anecdotes, but the most common reprieve I hear from Leave supporters is that leaving would've been great if not for 1) the years of political deadlock 2) Johnson's deal being naff. For most of us life hasn't improved since leaving (the pandemic right after didn't help); and after the promises about the sunlit uplands if we left, I don't think anything short of a miracle would make it feel like it was worth it. I think the only people who feel like it was worth it were those who voted Leave through a culture/prestiege lens and put the fact that we left above everything else.

hdgvhicv 1y ago
The guy who voted Brexit because he was fine with German and Polish immigrants who came to the U.K. and worked but he didn’t want Iraqi and Syrian refugees told me everything I needed to know about democracy.
- Sabinus 11mo ago
  Please point out the non-democracy where all citizens have enlightened views on race and culture.
  - hdgvhicv 11mo ago
    It was more about how he voted against his expressed wishes. He was ok with eu immigration but not non eu immigration, so he voted for less eu immigration.
ponector 11mo ago
>> A lot of support centred around how our culture & history ought to be perceived, limiting migration In reality they voted to replace immigration from EU with immigration from other countries. I guess it is better for UK culture to have more Asian people instead of European.

mike_hearn 11mo ago

There isn't less trade. Trade volume with the EU continued on its long term trend.