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Insane that it took a decade for another company to do it, but better late than never. Great to see. Next up: China.
by Rover222 1y ago
Insane that it took a decade for another company to do it, but better late than never. Great to see. Next up: China.
- perihelions 1y agoThe Zhuque-3 attempt should be a few weeks away, https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/chinese-company-landspace-fires-up-its-reusable-rocket-ahead-of-debut-flight-video https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/... ("China's 1st reusable rocket test fires engines ahead of debut flight")
- Rover222 1y agoI bet the next 5 companies/entities that do it are Chinese.
- dotancohen 1y agoInteresting to see how many are using methlax now as well.
- api 1y agoIt’s almost as good as hydrogen for iSP but way easier to handle. Also cheaper than RP1.
- CarVac 1y agoIt's nowhere near as good as hydrogen for ISP, it's just slightly better than RP1. And it has lower density than RP1 as well. It's a good compromise, however, as well as being cheap and easy to simulate the combustion of.
- m4rtink 1y agoI think it should also have better thrust than hydrogen, so more suitable for first stages.
- dotancohen 1y agoWhy did nobody use it before the Raptor? I understand why Raptors use methalox, as it can be produced on Mars. But many of these new rockets are not destined to be refueled on Mars.
- DennisP 1y agoAnother advantage is that it burns clean. That doesn't matter for expendables, but it's a big help if you want to reuse your rocket a bunch of times.
- mr_toad 11mo ago> Why did nobody use it before the Raptor? It’s not the best choice for an high-budget high-performance expendable multi-stage rocket. Using kerolox/SRBs in the first stage and hydrolox in the second stage gives better overall performance. Metholox is better for re-use, using the same engine in multiple stages lowers costs and complexity, and you can produce the fuel on Mars.
- CarVac 11mo agohttps://eagerspace.net/Why%20do%20New%20Rockets%20Love%20Methane.html https://eagerspace.net/Why%20do%20New%20Rockets%20Love%20Met...
- parineum 1y agoThe next one is likely Chinese but if the next 4 are, it'll be because they put a pinstripe on the first company's rocket and called it their own.
- cubefox 1y agoLandSpace, the company behind Zhuque-3, might be the most advanced Chinese rocket startup. They said they are even designing a larger rocket with 10m diameter, which is more than Starship (9m). My question is though where they are planning to get the required money from. Unlike the organization behind the Changzheng ("long march") rockets, which is already developing a 10m rocket as well, LandSpace is not state funded. And they don't have a billionaire at the top like Blue Origin and SpaceX. On the other hand, they were only founded in 2015, and it's impressive what they have achieved since then, no doubt with quite limited funds. They also have some experience with designing methane engines.
- perihelions 1y agoHold up—where do you get the assessment that LandSpace "is not state funded" and that these startups have "quite limited funds"? My understanding is the diametric opposite. Here's WSJ: > "At least six Chinese rockets designed with reusability in mind are planned to have their maiden flights this year. In November, the country’s first commercial launch site began operating. Beijing and local governments are giving private-sector companies cash injections of billions of dollars." https://www.wsj.com/world/china/chinas-own-elon-musks-are-racing-to-catch-up-to-spacex-74b02a95 https://www.wsj.com/world/china/chinas-own-elon-musks-are-ra... ( https://archive.is/Ukmoa https://archive.is/Ukmoa ) This is a national security priority for the Chinese state, which is why it's rational to expect a heavy amount of state support.
- cubefox 11mo ago> LandSpace raised 900 million yuan ($120 million) in December from a state-owned fund focussed on advanced manufacturing, while in 2020 it raised 1.2 billion yuan ($170 million), Chinese corporate databases showed. https://www.reuters.com/science/chinas-landspace-launches-improved-methane-powered-rocket-2025-05-17/ https://www.reuters.com/science/chinas-landspace-launches-im... They need to raise a lot more if they want to build a Starship-class rocket. Small government injections like the $120 million last year won't move the needle much. I somewhat doubt the "billions" of dollars WSJ is reporting, unless they include state-owned rocket companies like CASC, or non-rocket companies, like military companies.
- throwaway132448 1y agoMaybe it tells you a lot about the real commercial demand for this.
- Rover222 1y agoSpaceX launches 90% of the payload of the entire world to orbit now.
- bloudermilk 1y agoWild! Does that count their own Starlink payloads? Curious what this number looks like when you only look at the launch customer market.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> Curious what this number looks like when you only look at the launch customer market SpaceX makes 50%+ margins on its launches, which are booked out years in advance, for a reason.
- manquer 1y ago> booked out How so ? F9 launches are available anytime a customer wants them. SpaceX will bump down a Starlink launch to accommodate a paying customer, All they would really need would be the payload assembly time?
- dotnet00 1y agoThey're booked out years in advance only in the sense that bookings are sorted out years before the payload is ready to fly. SpaceX has emphasized that they're capable of swapping out Starlink launches with a commercial payload if needed on short notice.
- madamelic 1y agoThe launch count of SpaceX per year compared to the rest of the world is quite large. SpaceX in 2025 has launched 134 times. Everyone else in the entire world has launched 115 times combined, including other US companies. SpaceX launches a lot of stuff very often. EDIT: Originally meant to do 2024 but accidentally read the wrong bar. Regardless, this holds for most years.
- LightBug1 1y agoCompetition is good. We desperately needed competition or, at the very least, a viable strategic alternative to the WankerX - and now we have one. Yes, China. But would also love to see Honda step it up a bit for Japan. (NSX edition!)
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- NetMageSCW 1y agoA bit early to say that given BO has had two launches 11 months apart and SpaceX has had 142 launches and landings in the same timeframe. With most of them in reused boosters.
- LightBug1 11mo agoNo one doubts the technical prowess of SpaceX or the skill of the team. So I'm unsure why you felt the need to write that? What's in doubt is a wanker CEO who may, or may not, do something strategically ridiculous - perhaps because an advertising executive looked at him the wrong way. I don't care if the alternative is a Soviet jalopy propelled to the sky with compressed fart power. We need an alternative.
- h1fra 1y agoI wish EU was next but we slept too much on this one
- kypro 1y ago> this one Heh. I like your optimism.
- speed_spread 1y agoMbah, just copy China's rockets once they stop exploding. It would be embarrassing for them to complain about a little industrial espionnage.
- churchill 1y ago>Mbah Did you mean to say nah? Mba actually means just that in at least one language I know.
- speed_spread 11mo agoI meant what I wrote, which was a transition from the universal reflective 'mmm' to the French whatever 'bah'.
- churchill 11mo ago[dead]
- GMoromisato 1y agoThis is truly sad. Despite having, collectively, a larger GDP than the US, Europe has not been at the forefront of too many technologies, compared to the US and China. [Pharmaceuticals might be the main exception.] Sadly, I think the disadvantages will compound. Europe doesn't have a Google-type company with expertise building data centers, and are now behind on AI scaling. Without cheap access to orbit, they have missed out on building Starlink-like LEO constellations. I wish I knew why this is and how to fix it.
- sanmon3186 1y agoRocket Labs https://www.space.com/space-exploration/rocket-lab-delays-debut-of-powerful-partially-reusable-neutron-rocket-to-2026 https://www.space.com/space-exploration/rocket-lab-delays-de...
- Rover222 11mo agoWill be great if they're next