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Maybe there's room in the world for a device people want, even if it's not the device the majority want? I mean I know Apple is just a small startup company wit
by thesuitonym 1y ago
Maybe there's room in the world for a device people want, even if it's not the device the majority want? I mean I know Apple is just a small startup company with only a $4 trillion valuation, but maybe they could just do one thing that isn't maximally profitable once in a while.
- ntoskrnl_exe 1y ago>maybe they could just do one thing that isn't maximally profitable once in a while. They tried that this year and called it iPhone Air
- actionfromafar 1y agoRight, forgot to mention it should also be somewhat practical.
- frereubu 1y agoI get you're referring to the profitability, but the iPhone Air is just thin, not small, which is where this conversation started.
- kridsdale1 1y agoI bought a Pro Max for myself and an Air for my wife, who had a Mini before. The Air is DAMN SMALL. You really should try holding it. Yes the 2D dimensions are as large as a normal modern phone but it’s hardly there otherwise. It’s a good compromise. I’d want it myself but I shoot ProRes Video.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- jml78 1y agoBased on sales of the air, it won’t be around in future years.
- DiggyJohnson 1y agoThe issue is the 2D footprint compared to older models like the iPhone SE and iPhone 13 Mini. The iPhone Air is still significantly larger.
- frereubu 1y agoIt's entirely about the 2D space in terms of being able to easily hold it in one hand and reach the whole screen, as well as other things like how it fits into pockets. I have large hands and an iPhone 13 mini, and it still feels too big for me to use comfortably with one hand.
- crote 1y ago> Yes the 2D dimensions are as large as a normal modern phone but it’s hardly there otherwise. The 2D dimensions are literally the only thing I care about. I'm going to barely notice the weight difference. The actual thickness is a lie with the giant camera hump. What I do care about is whether I can operate it single-handedly: I want my thumb to reach the top of the screen (so I can drag down the notification bar and click nav stuff) while the bottom of the phone is resting on my pinky. I could easily do that on my Galaxy S III Mini, it was comfortable with my Moto G 2, it was just about doable with my Nokia 6.1 - and it is impossible with my Pixel 7. At no point did I I actively look for a larger phone: going for a larger model has always been an unavoidable compromise.
- thesuitonym 1y agoYa got me there.
- brulard 1y agoIt felt more like: keep the size, reduce the battery life
- CrimsonCape 1y agoYou missed the part where he said "make a device people want."
- rootusrootus 1y agoI'm curious how well it is selling. Early on there was a lot of enthusiasm, but I haven't heard much since. I don't know if I'd want a phone with less battery life, but my understanding is the Air's battery is actually not much smaller than last year's pro?
- layer8 1y agoIt doesn’t seem to be selling well: https://www.macrumors.com/2025/11/10/next-generation-iphone-air-delayed/ https://www.macrumors.com/2025/11/10/next-generation-iphone-...
- jsheard 1y agoNeither is Samsung's similar Galaxy Edge apparently, to the extent that the product line may have already been cancelled after just one generation. Both companies probably should have sat on that idea until they could offset the physically smaller batteries with the much denser silicon-carbon technology.
- layer8 1y agoThe battery is actually fine, better than the iPhone 16’s. The single camera and the pricing are the main problem, along with assorted minority showstoppers like single speaker and large size. It’s also not that much lighter, actually heavier than previous iPhones like the 12. People who are fine with a single camera and want less weight can also get the 16e for a much lower price, and then at least get stereo speakers. Add to that the very strong offering of the iPhone 17 this year.
- rootusrootus 1y ago> Foxconn has reportedly dismantled all but one and a half of its production lines for the iPhone Air , and all production is expected to be stopped at the end of the month Ouch! That sounds pretty bad, indeed. I was originally a little interested in the Air because I wanted to downsize from my previous 15 Pro Max. I ultimately decided that the Air was only thinner, and still big in the dimensions I wanted it to be smaller in.
- fxtentacle 1y agoThe iPhone Air was a turn in the wrong direction. What people like me wanted was an iPhone 13 mini that's a bit thicker so it can have a bit more battery capacity. And with the 120 Hz PWM nausea fixed. The iPhone Air has worse battery life. And it has a larger screen. And it's worse to handle one-handed. Coming from the 13 mini, it's not an improvement.
- throwforfeds 1y agoI bought an Air, coming from a 13 mini, and I largely agree with you on all those points except the battery life. I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying the Air has bad battery life, which maybe it does compared to the 17 or 17 Pro etc, but the past week I've been test driving it it has more than all day battery life for me. My 13 mini needed a recharge in the middle of the day (battery was worn down to about 83%). Otherwise, yeah, you're right. I'm pretty sure I'm going to return it this week before my 14 days are up.
- ntoskrnl_exe 1y agoTotally agreed. The one thing I don’t see criticized enough is the lack of a SIM card slot in international models. I understand they physically couldn’t fit it in, but I bet it's a deal breaker for everybody who has no experience with CDMA phones, so basically everybody outside of North America.
- decimalenough 1y ago> it's a deal breaker for everybody who has no experience with CDMA phones, so basically everybody outside of North America. Huh? CDMA is long dead, and the technical capabilities of physical and e-SIMs are identical. SIM = Subscriber Identity Module, all it does is encode your identity.
- ntoskrnl_exe 1y agoAs far as I know, CDMA, compared to GSM, didn't have a SIM card equivalent. The identity information was baked into the handset and if you wanted to move your number from one phone into another, you had to get in touch with your carrier. eSIM reintroduces this problem. Those who experienced it 20-odd years ago with CDMA may feel like home. But elsewhere, where it's always been a norm to have the easily transferable physical SIM card, it might be viewed as too much of a hassle.
- wat10000 1y agoI'm all for that when it comes to things like accessibility technology that allows people to do things they otherwise couldn't. But screen sizes? You can use a larger screen, you just prefer a smaller one.
- jms703 1y agoShareholders would never ever be ok with a company not trying to be maximally profitable.
- fxtentacle 1y agoThat's why Tesla stock tanked as soon as the FT wrote that "$1.4bn appears to have gone astray." ;) https://www.ft.com/content/62df8d8d-31f2-445e-bfa2-c171ac43db6e https://www.ft.com/content/62df8d8d-31f2-445e-bfa2-c171ac43d...
- rootusrootus 1y agoWhat's Tesla's forward PE? Close to 200? I don't think we can use them as an example of anything resembling a sane market. Edit: Found a link to the article content, I gather that's basically the point you're making?
- randmeerkat 1y ago> What's Tesla's forward PE? Close to 200? Nope, close to 300 actually…
- rootusrootus 1y agoThat's trailing PE. A standard response to that observation would be that the market is forward looking. So I try to stick to forward PE when discussing price. 200 is still insane in any case, it's an order of magnitude higher than, for example, GOOG.
- fxtentacle 1y agoYes, the point I was trying to make is that companies can get away with not being maximally profitable. There's nothing legally stopping Apple from accepting a slightly lower profit margin on the 5% of sales volume that might go to smaller iPhones if they would offer them. But it might brighten the day for millions of customers.
- 1y ago
- WillPostForFood 1y agoThey are making 5 different iPhone models of varying sizes, features, prices.
- mihaaly 1y agoAll big. 5 the same size category, barely different. Then they push a tiny-tiny device, the watch. Inbetween? Empty desert. They do not do things smartly but by force. Like the omission of physical home button, notch, no jack, clud first, and a lot of other things forced on us. Some decide to live with, or even adapt the love of it, despite never ever asked for it. Using the force like Darth Vader.
- MBCook 1y agoNot in Tim Cook land. If a product is profitable that’s not good enough, it has to be very profitable.
- jama211 1y agoA CEO that maximises for shareholder value? Shocking.
- MBCook 1y agoBut is he? We don’t know. If having such a phone keeps someone in the Apple ecosystem that may be more valuable. All their services they’re always pitching. People with iPhones are more likely to buy iPads and Macs. Maybe the get tired of the tiny screen or want a better camera and move up in a few years. The value of a customer over a longer time horizon, perhaps 10 years, may be better if you let them buy the phone you make $250 on instead of $450. He’s maximizing value for the quarter. That so often steers companies wrong.
- n2d4 1y agoIf each iPhone model served only 3% of total iPhone users like the iPhone mini did, you'd end up with 33 iPhone models
- Der_Einzige 1y agoGood.
- ebbi 1y agoGood, in some ways. But do people want to pay higher prices for these iPhones to cover the costs that have to be amortized over a lower volume of devices? I highly doubt it.
- andrewmutz 1y agoIf Apple didn't run such a closed ecosystem, other hardware vendors would step in and be happy to sell a form factor that 3% of the market uses. I keep trying to use Andriod to get more choice on form factor, but one thing always brings me back to an iPhone: texting incompatibility. Apple has me locked into their ecosystem because I can't get a decent quality video texted to me. As an Apple fan since the 90s who remembers how Microsoft abused its market dominance for decades, it's particularly ironic that Apple continues to use this technique against other companies.
- mike_d 1y agoApple developed iMessage to work around the problems with SMS and MMS, as well as decrease load on carrier networks. There is no closed ecosystem, you can still receive messages and videos from iPhone users, just at the quality your hardware and software can support. Google later decided to come up with a completely different implementation called RCS to deal with the same problems. Rather than work with Apple on bringing an iMessage app to Android or licensing it, they instead tried to pressure Apple with a public advertising campaign to adopt what is frankly an inferior solution that doesn't even have reliable end-to-end encryption. Your complaint is basically that you bought a Toyota and it does not have BMW's laser headlights that adjust brightness and angle automatically. You still have headlights, you just didn't spend the money to get the good ones.
- scosman 1y agoThey made it, it didn't sell well. Last I checked zero Android manufacturers were still creating high quality small phones (<5.5"). The Android community has resorted to petitions like https://smallandroidphone.com https://smallandroidphone.com Some people definitely want it, but when not even one Android manufacturer will create a model when they can get 100% market share, it looks like there isn't enough demand.
- pseudalopex 1y agoFoldable phones sold well enough Samsung introduced their 7th generation this year.
- thesuitonym 1y agoYou've hit the nail on the head. There are still some manufacturers that make small phones, and some that make high quality phones, but zero that make high quality small phones. Apple used to be our last respite, now we have nothing.
- mikepurvis 1y agoThey used to make the "mini" but that's because Jobs had taste and it's what he, specifically, wanted in his pocket. Now Jobs is gone and... no more mini. But I'll keep my iPhone 13 mini going as long as I can.
- nailer 1y agoI own an iPhone 16 pro, but I’m constantly thinking about switching to an iPhone 13 mini with an aftermarket battery conversion to make it last all day. The only thing that holds me back is that I can’t easily convert it to USBC.
- mikepurvis 1y agoMy battery is on its last legs, and I was going to pick up an iFixit one at some point and do the swap, but I believe theirs is the OEM configuration/capacity. Is there another option for an actual higher capacity battery?
- nailer 1y agohttps://irepart.com/products/iphone-13-mini-battery-replacement-prime https://irepart.com/products/iphone-13-mini-battery-replacem... Original was 2406 mAh
- mikepurvis 1y agoYes okay, I confirm that the part iFixit is offering is just the standard capacity (9.34Wh / 2.4Ah): https://www.ifixit.com/en-ca/products/iphone-13-mini-battery https://www.ifixit.com/en-ca/products/iphone-13-mini-battery It doesn't seem like Repart do direct to consumer sales; I'll look around and see if I can find somewhere reputable to buy that in Canada. Based on this reddit thread, it doesn't seem that there's really a consensus around whether these purported supersized after market batteries are the real deal: https://www.reddit.com/r/iPhone13Mini/comments/1gap4yc/share_actual_mah_data_on_iphone_13_mini/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iPhone13Mini/comments/1gap4yc/share...
- the__alchemist 1y agoI think it's possible this is a good summary explanation, but isn't this a bit like saying "We only make shirts in medium because it's what the majority wants." I would switch from Android to Apple if this fixed this problem.
- thesuitonym 1y agoCome to think of it, the only reason I switched from Android to Apple was because the 12 Mini wasn't massive and was actually a decent phone. If I have to get a massive phone again, I might as well go back to Android.
- Drew_ 1y agoSame story for me, but with the 15 Pro. The Pixel 7 phones were huge so I just switched to my first iPhone.