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No particular love for Sam Altman, but the article reads as “I was right about X, so my interpretation of Y is correct.” I don’t see any particular contradicti

No particular love for Sam Altman, but the article reads as “I was right about X, so my interpretation of Y is correct.” I don’t see any particular contradiction. Moving fabs onshore is absolutely in the interest of both parties.

samrus 1y ago
The crux of the article was altman trying to get a bailout, and when people called him on his bullshit, lying thay he never wanted a bailout. You cant trust the man
- ineedasername 1y ago
  It looks like the actual crux was Altman's plea that the backtops be granted... Not to OpenAI? The document linkedfrom the article that had the actual ask, rather than cleanup over deliberate misatributions by others, was to... "Extend eligibility", for the AMIC money already carved out, to companies that are producers of things such as "grid components such as transformers and specialized steel". So: Altman did not ask for OpenAI loans to be guaranteed, nor did the CFO. It was on behalf of others drawn into the needs of the industry the AMIC grant was supposed to support. Self interested by OpenAI? Sure! And also not about to make the top 10k leaderboard for "sleezy things companies do".
  - samrus 11mo ago
    You cant be this naive. You have to read between the lines. Altman has laready shown hes willing to boil us frogs with his attempts IPO a non profit. Hes slimy, he doesnt just say things and stand by them, he tests the waters and lies about ever wanting to swim if its too cold. He called for general bailouts, which would benefit OAI far far more than others since its spending the most, and then he got backlash, he lied and said that OAI doesnt want bailouts at all. You cant be so literalist to just take the man at his exact word and not try to determine his motivations. Especially this guy, whos made a career out of dancing around silicon valley's "no assholes" policy
  - techblueberry 11mo ago
    The CFO literally asked for guaranteed loans, tell me that’s not what she meant, don’t tell me not to believe my eyes and ears. Not only did I hear it, but David “AI Czar, king of the all-in bros” Sacks heard it the same way along with everyone else who heard it.
    - keeda 11mo ago
      She said "guaranteed loans" and everybody heard "bailouts" and that's what everybody is reacting to. Guaranteed loans are a completedly different thing and are still debatable, as I expand here -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45839060 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45839060 -- but that's not the debate I'm seeing anywhere.
- mieses 1y ago
  He might be fun to play a board game with but not in real life.
Jedd 1y ago
That wasn't my take - it was more broadly a 'given past statements and accompanying behaviour, we can't trust future statements to align with future behaviour'. Can you more explicitly describe what the X and Y points you allude to are?
- nostrebored 1y ago
  Every “6 months ago I said this!” added little to the article. In a real investigative report it would lay out the facts and fairly objectively state “6 months ago, Sam Altman was accused of …” The article as a whole just seems libelous? Almost personal?
  - chrisco255 1y ago
    It's not a report, it's a blog post. Of course it's personal.
    - nostrebored 1y ago
      You regularly make personal attacks against individuals on the internet? Maybe I’m just old, but I don’t see the appeal? If you’re trying to convince people, then you should probably have a convincing argument. Otherwise it feels like kiwifarms-posting with a megaphone.
      - milowata 1y ago
        Maybe you’re missing the context of who Gary Marcus is
      - chrisco255 1y ago
        A blog is an opinion piece. The subject of interest, Sam Altman, is a public figure and CEO of one of the fastest growing tech companies. He's testified in front of Congress on AI regulation and has a lot of pull and influence on regulators. Some of the things and actions he's taken in the past are controversial, thus, thinkpieces get written. The AI industry is quickly en route to trillion dollar plus territory (already there if you count Nvidia as an AI company). There's a lot of money and emotions at stake for the AI gold rush. When someone is at the forefront of these types of things, like other public business figures with controversial tactics (Musk, Gates, Jobs, Kalanick, etc) it draws attention.
hiddencost 1y ago
Gary Marcus has been writing a piece like this roughly every 2 months for 20 years, and he gets a lot of attention because he seems respectable (he is not), and many papers are looking for a respectable source that has this opinion.
- nextworddev 1y ago
  He’s playing the Nouriel Roubini game (another NYU adj prof). Last time I checked Nouriel was partying up in the Hamptons so being a permabear is lucrative.
- an0malous 1y ago
  Why is he not respectable?
  - pols45 1y ago
    Cause he hasn't built anything or found a job since he sold his last company ages ago.
    - Supermancho 1y ago
      Respect can be earned through many means, not just through goalposts set by financiers.
      - pols45 1y ago
        Gary Marcus is not changing the story financiers are telling each other about AI. He has been telling the same story without making a dent in their stories. And that is because he is not in the arena. What he says, does and thinks doesn't matter.
    - anothernewdude 1y ago
      So upon finding success, he has escaped the struggle that people are forced into against their will. How unreasonable of him.
  - 1y ago

samrus 1y ago

The crux of the article was altman trying to get a bailout, and when people called him on his bullshit, lying thay he never wanted a bailout. You cant trust the man

ineedasername 1y ago
It looks like the actual crux was Altman's plea that the backtops be granted... Not to OpenAI? The document linkedfrom the article that had the actual ask, rather than cleanup over deliberate misatributions by others, was to... "Extend eligibility", for the AMIC money already carved out, to companies that are producers of things such as "grid components such as transformers and specialized steel". So: Altman did not ask for OpenAI loans to be guaranteed, nor did the CFO. It was on behalf of others drawn into the needs of the industry the AMIC grant was supposed to support. Self interested by OpenAI? Sure! And also not about to make the top 10k leaderboard for "sleezy things companies do".
- samrus 11mo ago
  You cant be this naive. You have to read between the lines. Altman has laready shown hes willing to boil us frogs with his attempts IPO a non profit. Hes slimy, he doesnt just say things and stand by them, he tests the waters and lies about ever wanting to swim if its too cold. He called for general bailouts, which would benefit OAI far far more than others since its spending the most, and then he got backlash, he lied and said that OAI doesnt want bailouts at all. You cant be so literalist to just take the man at his exact word and not try to determine his motivations. Especially this guy, whos made a career out of dancing around silicon valley's "no assholes" policy
- techblueberry 11mo ago
  The CFO literally asked for guaranteed loans, tell me that’s not what she meant, don’t tell me not to believe my eyes and ears. Not only did I hear it, but David “AI Czar, king of the all-in bros” Sacks heard it the same way along with everyone else who heard it.
  - keeda 11mo ago
    She said "guaranteed loans" and everybody heard "bailouts" and that's what everybody is reacting to. Guaranteed loans are a completedly different thing and are still debatable, as I expand here -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45839060 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45839060 -- but that's not the debate I'm seeing anywhere.
mieses 1y ago
He might be fun to play a board game with but not in real life.

Jedd 1y ago

That wasn't my take - it was more broadly a 'given past statements and accompanying behaviour, we can't trust future statements to align with future behaviour'. Can you more explicitly describe what the X and Y points you allude to are?

nostrebored 1y ago
Every “6 months ago I said this!” added little to the article. In a real investigative report it would lay out the facts and fairly objectively state “6 months ago, Sam Altman was accused of …” The article as a whole just seems libelous? Almost personal?
- chrisco255 1y ago
  It's not a report, it's a blog post. Of course it's personal.
  - nostrebored 1y ago
    You regularly make personal attacks against individuals on the internet? Maybe I’m just old, but I don’t see the appeal? If you’re trying to convince people, then you should probably have a convincing argument. Otherwise it feels like kiwifarms-posting with a megaphone.
    - milowata 1y ago
      Maybe you’re missing the context of who Gary Marcus is
    - chrisco255 1y ago
      A blog is an opinion piece. The subject of interest, Sam Altman, is a public figure and CEO of one of the fastest growing tech companies. He's testified in front of Congress on AI regulation and has a lot of pull and influence on regulators. Some of the things and actions he's taken in the past are controversial, thus, thinkpieces get written. The AI industry is quickly en route to trillion dollar plus territory (already there if you count Nvidia as an AI company). There's a lot of money and emotions at stake for the AI gold rush. When someone is at the forefront of these types of things, like other public business figures with controversial tactics (Musk, Gates, Jobs, Kalanick, etc) it draws attention.

hiddencost 1y ago

Gary Marcus has been writing a piece like this roughly every 2 months for 20 years, and he gets a lot of attention because he seems respectable (he is not), and many papers are looking for a respectable source that has this opinion.

nextworddev 1y ago
He’s playing the Nouriel Roubini game (another NYU adj prof). Last time I checked Nouriel was partying up in the Hamptons so being a permabear is lucrative.
an0malous 1y ago
Why is he not respectable?
- pols45 1y ago
  Cause he hasn't built anything or found a job since he sold his last company ages ago.
  - Supermancho 1y ago
    Respect can be earned through many means, not just through goalposts set by financiers.
    - pols45 1y ago
      Gary Marcus is not changing the story financiers are telling each other about AI. He has been telling the same story without making a dent in their stories. And that is because he is not in the arena. What he says, does and thinks doesn't matter.
  - anothernewdude 1y ago
    So upon finding success, he has escaped the struggle that people are forced into against their will. How unreasonable of him.
- 1y ago