6 ms·

As I wrote elsewhere, the US government and economy are now essentially a private equity takeover for a large segment of wealthy business: Squeeze out as much m

by mmooss 1y ago

As I wrote elsewhere, the US government and economy are now essentially a private equity takeover for a large segment of wealthy business: Squeeze out as much money as possible short term - including by issuing debt againts its assets, slashing and burning any costs regardless of ROI and with no regard for the future, and leave the bankrupt husk for someone else to deal with. The treatment of fossil fuels and renewables fits: Block the obviously more economical and better long-term solution in order to shovel money toward the entrenched wealthy. That it sabotages the future due to climate change and economic inefficiency doesn't seem to be a significant factor to them. I forgot, one of the entrenched corporate wealthy told us that climate change isn't a big deal, and we should send money to his and his friends for solutions. I'm not anti-business; in fact, quite the opposite: These policies block a free market and the brilliant new businesses that can thrive and deliver solutions to everyone.

seanmcdirmid 1y ago
If only Musk didn't turn out to be such a twitt, Tesla was really supposed to be part of the solution but somehow Musk managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The future is pretty much in China now as far as green energy tech and consumption goes. Two bad elections and the US has basically lost world leader status in just over a decade.
- bigyabai 1y ago
  Musk chronically over-promised and terminally under-delivered. There was no world where he didn't end up being a twit, just one where we aren't stupid enough to fall for his lies. Tesla, in particular, boils down to how Americans respond to marketing. We love the idea of buying organic, environmentally-friendly technology that makes us part of the solution. It doesn't matter if Congolese children are dying in the cobalt mines to make EV-grade lithium ion batteries, us Americans need to virtue signal with our wallet. Buy the latest iPhone, save up for a Tesla, it's all part of the new-age jewelry we wear to make ourselves feel worth something. It was damn good marketing.
  - embedding-shape 1y ago
    > Musk chronically over-promised and terminally under-delivered To be fair, most CEOs does that, but I think his downfall was really everything that he did besides just over-promising and under-delivering. He could have continued as-is, without all the political stunts and activities, and I'm sure Europeans would still have bought Teslas sometimes. Now the brand is poisoned pretty much world-wide, which wouldn't have happened just because of "over-promise and under-deliver", it takes a lot more for stuff like that to happen.
    - _aavaa_ 1y ago
      How many CEO promise full self driving, robo taxis, humanoid robots that are only 6 months away for 10+ years? The equivocation here is quiet something.
      - adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
        Toyota has been promising solid state batteries in 2-3 years for the last 15.
        amanaplanacanal 1y ago
        They weren't promising they'd be in the car you already bought though.
      - dylan604 1y ago
        The CEO of fusion startups have always said fusion is 10 years away. While 10 years != 6 months, it's the same thing
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    I really like EVs, and the Congolese kids dying to make EV-grade lithium has always been FUD made up by the anti boomer crowd (77% of the world's lithium comes from Australia and Chile, and I know they aren't importing Congo kids to mine it, and then China, Argentina, and Bolivia, again, completely Congo kid free). You probably meant Cobolt, and they are transitioning to LFP chemistries because it is impossible to force the Congolese to use industrial mining rather than small holder artisanal mining (where parents are likely to make their kids mine without supervision). > us Americans need to virtue signal how much we love green energy and saving the planet. Again, more FUD made up by the anti-EV crowd. Most people who buy EVs buy them because they are just better cars. In China, EVs are more of a national security concern: they have to import oil, which exposes them to international conflict. Importing less oil = less exposure, which is a big win for the country. The US has a lot of oil-entrenched interests.
- kakacik 1y ago
  Musk is a nogo poisoned brand in Europe... that damage his needless psychotic attacks have done won't be forgotten anytime soon. I'd happily buy chinese car instead of tesla just because of above, if prices were same. But they are far from same, and seeing their progress they may soon be better products overall.
  - lenerdenator 1y ago
    > Musk is a nogo poisoned brand in Europe... that damage his needless psychotic attacks have done won't be forgotten anytime soon. I'd happily buy chinese car instead of tesla just because of above, if prices were same. But they are far from same, and seeing their progress they may soon be better products overall. This more-or-less summarizes American geopolitical and economic attitudes towards China from 1970 until 2016. "Sure, they're problematic, but so are we, and their product is cheaper, so..."
    - ben_w 1y ago
      "The product is cheaper" is why combustion engines were dominant over batteries and renewables for so long, and also why they're now being displaced so rapidly by them.
      - WheatMillington 1y ago
        Batteries were not a viable technology for a variety of reasons until recently. Cost is only one of a number of show-stopping problems with battery technology before circa 20 years ago.
        jonway 1y ago
        Electric cars were quite popular in the early history of automobiles. It wasn’t until internal combustion development proceeded (mechanical, and resource discovery) that the economics and value proposition flipped. All the show-stopping problems you mentioned applied to internal combustion before. Unless electrical generation gets less efficient somehow, the economics are trending back.
- GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
  > If only Musk didn't turn out to be such a twitt, Tesla was really supposed to be part of the solution but somehow Musk managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. this was never going to happen. the capitalist class are never going to be the ones to get us out of debt; they cause and benefit from it. it's his entire business model.
  - ben_w 1y ago
    Debt isn't what's wrong with Musk. Not that his own debt isn't going to cause him problems when the TSLA share price stops defying gravity like Wile E. Coyote, it's just that his problems are shaped more like "being a cult leader".
- beloch 1y ago
  I have to agree with you. I've heard competing claims that Musk is doing, with Tesla, something similar to what he did with Hyperloop: Promise a futuristic but ultimately impractical solution to forestall those trying to proceed with proven solutions (i.e. bullet trains) that might compete with his own business. However, it's becoming increasingly apparent that the above paragraph ascribes genius to what is more simply explained by incompetence. It's more likely Musk believed he could make Hyperloop work, but couldn't. Similarly... - Musk thought he could buy an election and gain the inside track for his companies, but was too witless to maintain good relations with the politician he bought. - He bought Twitter seemingly on a lark and proceeded to rapidly run it into the ground. - He put a bunch of script-kiddies in charge of DOGE, which promptly made a mess of an entire government and created a historically massive deficit while gutting government services. - He alienated the core customer demographics that had formerly been one of Tesla's mains sources of income. (The other being government grants and subsidies which... whoops.) Now, Tesla's shareholders are weighing whether or not a man with Musk's recent track record is worth a trillion dollar pay package[1]. It's gobsmacking that they even need to think about this. So, no, Musk is not some evil genius undoing green energy by deliberately creating a false solution that fails to deliver. He's just a garden variety mediocrity who has been promoted far past his capabilities or character and has been utterly undone by the resulting ego trip. He's an object lesson in just how much damage the wrong person in the right place and time can do to the world. [1]https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/musk-could-leave-tesla-if-1-trillion-pay-plan-is-rejected-chair-warns-2025-10-27/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/musk-could-leave...
  - tim333 1y ago
    >worth a trillion dollar pay package. It's gobsmacking that they even need to think about this. I think you mischaracterize that deal. It's more if he can hype the stock from $1.3t to $8.5t he gets a 15% cut, in stock. It wouldn't be a bad deal for TSLA speculators.
    - ethbr1 1y ago
      As long as they get out before Elon gets his chunk and is no longer incentivized to keep the lie going.
gtirloni 1y ago
Don't forget the frequent bump and dump and insider trading schemes.
jamesblonde 1y ago
You forgot using your digital infrastructure for extractive rent from your partners, driving them to build their own sovereign digital infrastructure.
- chairmansteve 1y ago
  "driving them to build their own sovereign digital infrastructure". Is that happening though?
  - frameset 1y ago
    Yes. https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/EN/2025/03/dvc.html https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/EN/202...
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
WheatMillington 1y ago
Americans get what they vote for - it's not like any of this is a surprise, Trump is a well understood entity.
- daveguy 1y ago
  Much less well understood by folks who get their news from Fox News, News Max, or bro podcasts.
  - Herring 1y ago
    Everyone understands Trump is the racist president who will screw over "those people" for you. Even rural Mongolians get it. It was clear from day 1 when he came down the stairs calling Mexicans rapists, almost 10 years ago. They just like to cheer tariffs and govt firings and grants cancellations, then smirk and pretend they don't understand it. Well as we see in the article, this world is very interconnected and you can't hurt your neighbor without hurting yourself.
    - daveguy 1y ago
      Most everyone. Rural Mongolians arent getting their news from US propaganda. Oh, and how could I forget the most racist propaganda spewing one of all, X. People who get info from these sources have been manipulated to shut down their own critical thinking and just react for decades. Half of them probably don't even realize how racist-fascist their views have gotten.
      - diordiderot 1y ago
        Really wish we could push this discourse off HN and back to bsky
        Herring 1y ago
        That irritation you feel is your conscience/soul. Try saying hi.
Herring 1y ago
It's an old strategy https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santas-strategy-gop-used-economic-scam-manipulate-americans-40-years/ https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santa...
- gtirloni 1y ago
  > This produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the "tax-cut Santa Clauses." I don't disagree but it seems this time the good economy part only exists in their rhetoric.
  - estimator7292 1y ago
    It's a "good economy" because the numbers are going up. That's all that matters. The fact that the numbers are going up because of a bubble and a lot of questionable deals is not relevant. That's a problem for someone else to handle later.
    - ethbr1 1y ago
      The numbers also go up when the dollar deflates. The people who get burned there are the ones unwilling / unable to track inflation.
      - ffsm8 1y ago
        > The numbers also go up when the dollar deflates Uh, if it deflates, the numbers go down? Isn't that the definition? The same numerical value of currency represents more value as compared to assets etc - hence things get "cheaper", with the side effect of money getting harder to get
NedF 1y ago
[dead]
AtlasBarfed 1y ago
The rich haven't been about a free market in quite a long time. I don't know if you noticed, but the discourse in right-wing politics that's absolutely nothing to do with Chicago school anymore. They don't even bring up free markets. It's an acknowledgment that the entire economy in the US is cartel or Monopoly
- mmooss 1y ago
  > The rich haven't been about a free market in quite a long time. I think that's just the Trump version of the GOP, and the Dems followed along, dismissing economics - an attempt at truth - for shallow partisanship. For example, the New York Times fired their economist columnists, such as Paul Krugman.
giantg2 1y ago
"The treatment of fossil fuels and renewables fits: Block the obviously more economical and better long-term solution in order to shovel money toward the entrenched wealthy." This is also voter/public appeasement. There are many rural communities that depend on fossil fuel related jobs and will vote to protect them. "These policies block a free market and the brilliant new businesses that can thrive and deliver solutions to everyone." I'd be more inclined to share this view if the manufacturing were done in the US. But we can't really compete on manufacturing costs. Remove the policies and the money still goes to the rich and we lose jobs too.
- mmooss 1y ago
  > There are many rural communities that depend on fossil fuel related jobs and will vote to protect them. It's true to an extent, but technological transitions happen regularly. Everything we have now is a product of a prior transition. > Remove the policies and the money still goes to the rich and we lose jobs too. Prices drop, and also the money goes to those who can innovate in the real economy. Manufacturing isn't the only sector of the economy, and we want to build the new sectors and industries, not the ones that were successful 75 years ago.
  - giantg2 1y ago
    "but technological transitions happen regularly" Yes, and that doesn't refute that people will vote to protect their jobs. If they were offered alternatives, then maybe it would gain more traction in those areas. Eg you can't mine coal anymore but we'll start up a solar panel plant here. "and we want to build the new sectors and industries" And what are those? Most of the economy is shit for job seekers right now. We continue to automate and outsource. Right now it looks like nursing and the trades are some of the few things actually growing.
    - mmooss 1y ago
      > And what are those? The challenge of being on the leading edge economically (i.e., not being a middle-income country following the road blazed by others), is you don't always know. Certainly IT, non-GHG energy, ...
thelastgallon 1y ago
> I'm not anti-business; in fact, quite the opposite: These policies block a free market and the brilliant new businesses that can thrive and deliver solutions to everyone. Lets hope PG&Es price gouging kicks-off people to look for off-grid solution. EVs have humongous batteries, home batteries are getting pretty cheap. With solar + EV + home battery there is a strong economic case for a large number of people in CA to switch to off grid. Which makes PGE raise rates, driving more people to go off grid. California is a big enough market, which can create this new demand for off grid, new companies and economies of scale.
- M95D 1y ago
  The green tech is completely under the control of governement even after it is installed and operational: - Tax imports of panels and batteries - Tax and oppose new installations. - Only offer disincetive grid prices to those having panels on their houses. Low pay or negative pay to push to grid, higher cost to consume from the grid. - Tax installed panels, even off-grid ones. - Introduce new onerous "safety" requirements.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    That's where a free market should come in.

by mmooss 1y ago

seanmcdirmid 1y ago

If only Musk didn't turn out to be such a twitt, Tesla was really supposed to be part of the solution but somehow Musk managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The future is pretty much in China now as far as green energy tech and consumption goes. Two bad elections and the US has basically lost world leader status in just over a decade.

bigyabai 1y ago
Musk chronically over-promised and terminally under-delivered. There was no world where he didn't end up being a twit, just one where we aren't stupid enough to fall for his lies. Tesla, in particular, boils down to how Americans respond to marketing. We love the idea of buying organic, environmentally-friendly technology that makes us part of the solution. It doesn't matter if Congolese children are dying in the cobalt mines to make EV-grade lithium ion batteries, us Americans need to virtue signal with our wallet. Buy the latest iPhone, save up for a Tesla, it's all part of the new-age jewelry we wear to make ourselves feel worth something. It was damn good marketing.
- embedding-shape 1y ago
  > Musk chronically over-promised and terminally under-delivered To be fair, most CEOs does that, but I think his downfall was really everything that he did besides just over-promising and under-delivering. He could have continued as-is, without all the political stunts and activities, and I'm sure Europeans would still have bought Teslas sometimes. Now the brand is poisoned pretty much world-wide, which wouldn't have happened just because of "over-promise and under-deliver", it takes a lot more for stuff like that to happen.
  - _aavaa_ 1y ago
    How many CEO promise full self driving, robo taxis, humanoid robots that are only 6 months away for 10+ years? The equivocation here is quiet something.
    - adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
      Toyota has been promising solid state batteries in 2-3 years for the last 15.
      - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
        They weren't promising they'd be in the car you already bought though.
    - dylan604 1y ago
      The CEO of fusion startups have always said fusion is 10 years away. While 10 years != 6 months, it's the same thing
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  I really like EVs, and the Congolese kids dying to make EV-grade lithium has always been FUD made up by the anti boomer crowd (77% of the world's lithium comes from Australia and Chile, and I know they aren't importing Congo kids to mine it, and then China, Argentina, and Bolivia, again, completely Congo kid free). You probably meant Cobolt, and they are transitioning to LFP chemistries because it is impossible to force the Congolese to use industrial mining rather than small holder artisanal mining (where parents are likely to make their kids mine without supervision). > us Americans need to virtue signal how much we love green energy and saving the planet. Again, more FUD made up by the anti-EV crowd. Most people who buy EVs buy them because they are just better cars. In China, EVs are more of a national security concern: they have to import oil, which exposes them to international conflict. Importing less oil = less exposure, which is a big win for the country. The US has a lot of oil-entrenched interests.
kakacik 1y ago
Musk is a nogo poisoned brand in Europe... that damage his needless psychotic attacks have done won't be forgotten anytime soon. I'd happily buy chinese car instead of tesla just because of above, if prices were same. But they are far from same, and seeing their progress they may soon be better products overall.
- lenerdenator 1y ago
  > Musk is a nogo poisoned brand in Europe... that damage his needless psychotic attacks have done won't be forgotten anytime soon. I'd happily buy chinese car instead of tesla just because of above, if prices were same. But they are far from same, and seeing their progress they may soon be better products overall. This more-or-less summarizes American geopolitical and economic attitudes towards China from 1970 until 2016. "Sure, they're problematic, but so are we, and their product is cheaper, so..."
  - ben_w 1y ago
    "The product is cheaper" is why combustion engines were dominant over batteries and renewables for so long, and also why they're now being displaced so rapidly by them.
    - WheatMillington 1y ago
      Batteries were not a viable technology for a variety of reasons until recently. Cost is only one of a number of show-stopping problems with battery technology before circa 20 years ago.
      - jonway 1y ago
        Electric cars were quite popular in the early history of automobiles. It wasn’t until internal combustion development proceeded (mechanical, and resource discovery) that the economics and value proposition flipped. All the show-stopping problems you mentioned applied to internal combustion before. Unless electrical generation gets less efficient somehow, the economics are trending back.
GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
> If only Musk didn't turn out to be such a twitt, Tesla was really supposed to be part of the solution but somehow Musk managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. this was never going to happen. the capitalist class are never going to be the ones to get us out of debt; they cause and benefit from it. it's his entire business model.
- ben_w 1y ago
  Debt isn't what's wrong with Musk. Not that his own debt isn't going to cause him problems when the TSLA share price stops defying gravity like Wile E. Coyote, it's just that his problems are shaped more like "being a cult leader".
beloch 1y ago
I have to agree with you. I've heard competing claims that Musk is doing, with Tesla, something similar to what he did with Hyperloop: Promise a futuristic but ultimately impractical solution to forestall those trying to proceed with proven solutions (i.e. bullet trains) that might compete with his own business. However, it's becoming increasingly apparent that the above paragraph ascribes genius to what is more simply explained by incompetence. It's more likely Musk believed he could make Hyperloop work, but couldn't. Similarly... - Musk thought he could buy an election and gain the inside track for his companies, but was too witless to maintain good relations with the politician he bought. - He bought Twitter seemingly on a lark and proceeded to rapidly run it into the ground. - He put a bunch of script-kiddies in charge of DOGE, which promptly made a mess of an entire government and created a historically massive deficit while gutting government services. - He alienated the core customer demographics that had formerly been one of Tesla's mains sources of income. (The other being government grants and subsidies which... whoops.) Now, Tesla's shareholders are weighing whether or not a man with Musk's recent track record is worth a trillion dollar pay package[1]. It's gobsmacking that they even need to think about this. So, no, Musk is not some evil genius undoing green energy by deliberately creating a false solution that fails to deliver. He's just a garden variety mediocrity who has been promoted far past his capabilities or character and has been utterly undone by the resulting ego trip. He's an object lesson in just how much damage the wrong person in the right place and time can do to the world. [1]https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/musk-could-leave-tesla-if-1-trillion-pay-plan-is-rejected-chair-warns-2025-10-27/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/musk-could-leave...
- tim333 1y ago
  >worth a trillion dollar pay package. It's gobsmacking that they even need to think about this. I think you mischaracterize that deal. It's more if he can hype the stock from $1.3t to $8.5t he gets a 15% cut, in stock. It wouldn't be a bad deal for TSLA speculators.
  - ethbr1 1y ago
    As long as they get out before Elon gets his chunk and is no longer incentivized to keep the lie going.

gtirloni 1y ago

Don't forget the frequent bump and dump and insider trading schemes.

jamesblonde 1y ago

You forgot using your digital infrastructure for extractive rent from your partners, driving them to build their own sovereign digital infrastructure.

chairmansteve 1y ago
"driving them to build their own sovereign digital infrastructure". Is that happening though?
- frameset 1y ago
  Yes. https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/EN/2025/03/dvc.html https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/EN/202...

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

WheatMillington 1y ago

Americans get what they vote for - it's not like any of this is a surprise, Trump is a well understood entity.

daveguy 1y ago
Much less well understood by folks who get their news from Fox News, News Max, or bro podcasts.
- Herring 1y ago
  Everyone understands Trump is the racist president who will screw over "those people" for you. Even rural Mongolians get it. It was clear from day 1 when he came down the stairs calling Mexicans rapists, almost 10 years ago. They just like to cheer tariffs and govt firings and grants cancellations, then smirk and pretend they don't understand it. Well as we see in the article, this world is very interconnected and you can't hurt your neighbor without hurting yourself.
  - daveguy 1y ago
    Most everyone. Rural Mongolians arent getting their news from US propaganda. Oh, and how could I forget the most racist propaganda spewing one of all, X. People who get info from these sources have been manipulated to shut down their own critical thinking and just react for decades. Half of them probably don't even realize how racist-fascist their views have gotten.
    - diordiderot 1y ago
      Really wish we could push this discourse off HN and back to bsky
      - Herring 1y ago
        That irritation you feel is your conscience/soul. Try saying hi.

Herring 1y ago

It's an old strategy https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santas-strategy-gop-used-economic-scam-manipulate-americans-40-years/ https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santa...

gtirloni 1y ago
> This produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the "tax-cut Santa Clauses." I don't disagree but it seems this time the good economy part only exists in their rhetoric.
- estimator7292 1y ago
  It's a "good economy" because the numbers are going up. That's all that matters. The fact that the numbers are going up because of a bubble and a lot of questionable deals is not relevant. That's a problem for someone else to handle later.
  - ethbr1 1y ago
    The numbers also go up when the dollar deflates. The people who get burned there are the ones unwilling / unable to track inflation.
    - ffsm8 1y ago
      > The numbers also go up when the dollar deflates Uh, if it deflates, the numbers go down? Isn't that the definition? The same numerical value of currency represents more value as compared to assets etc - hence things get "cheaper", with the side effect of money getting harder to get

NedF 1y ago

[dead]

AtlasBarfed 1y ago

The rich haven't been about a free market in quite a long time. I don't know if you noticed, but the discourse in right-wing politics that's absolutely nothing to do with Chicago school anymore. They don't even bring up free markets. It's an acknowledgment that the entire economy in the US is cartel or Monopoly

mmooss 1y ago
> The rich haven't been about a free market in quite a long time. I think that's just the Trump version of the GOP, and the Dems followed along, dismissing economics - an attempt at truth - for shallow partisanship. For example, the New York Times fired their economist columnists, such as Paul Krugman.

giantg2 1y ago

"The treatment of fossil fuels and renewables fits: Block the obviously more economical and better long-term solution in order to shovel money toward the entrenched wealthy." This is also voter/public appeasement. There are many rural communities that depend on fossil fuel related jobs and will vote to protect them. "These policies block a free market and the brilliant new businesses that can thrive and deliver solutions to everyone." I'd be more inclined to share this view if the manufacturing were done in the US. But we can't really compete on manufacturing costs. Remove the policies and the money still goes to the rich and we lose jobs too.

mmooss 1y ago
> There are many rural communities that depend on fossil fuel related jobs and will vote to protect them. It's true to an extent, but technological transitions happen regularly. Everything we have now is a product of a prior transition. > Remove the policies and the money still goes to the rich and we lose jobs too. Prices drop, and also the money goes to those who can innovate in the real economy. Manufacturing isn't the only sector of the economy, and we want to build the new sectors and industries, not the ones that were successful 75 years ago.
- giantg2 1y ago
  "but technological transitions happen regularly" Yes, and that doesn't refute that people will vote to protect their jobs. If they were offered alternatives, then maybe it would gain more traction in those areas. Eg you can't mine coal anymore but we'll start up a solar panel plant here. "and we want to build the new sectors and industries" And what are those? Most of the economy is shit for job seekers right now. We continue to automate and outsource. Right now it looks like nursing and the trades are some of the few things actually growing.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    > And what are those? The challenge of being on the leading edge economically (i.e., not being a middle-income country following the road blazed by others), is you don't always know. Certainly IT, non-GHG energy, ...

thelastgallon 1y ago

> I'm not anti-business; in fact, quite the opposite: These policies block a free market and the brilliant new businesses that can thrive and deliver solutions to everyone. Lets hope PG&Es price gouging kicks-off people to look for off-grid solution. EVs have humongous batteries, home batteries are getting pretty cheap. With solar + EV + home battery there is a strong economic case for a large number of people in CA to switch to off grid. Which makes PGE raise rates, driving more people to go off grid. California is a big enough market, which can create this new demand for off grid, new companies and economies of scale.

M95D 1y ago
The green tech is completely under the control of governement even after it is installed and operational: - Tax imports of panels and batteries - Tax and oppose new installations. - Only offer disincetive grid prices to those having panels on their houses. Low pay or negative pay to push to grid, higher cost to consume from the grid. - Tax installed panels, even off-grid ones. - Introduce new onerous "safety" requirements.
- mmooss 1y ago
  That's where a free market should come in.