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> Maybe I'm just the old man screaming at cloud (no pun intended) but when did people forget how to run a baremetal server ? It's a way to "commoditize" engine

> Maybe I'm just the old man screaming at cloud (no pun intended) but when did people forget how to run a baremetal server ? It's a way to "commoditize" engineers. You can run on premise or mixed infra better and cheaper, but only if you know what you are doing. This requires experienced guys and doesn't work with new grad hired by big cons and sold ad "cloud experts".

calgoo 1y ago
Also, when something breaks, you are responsible. If you put it in AWS like everyone else and it breaks, then its their problem not yours. We will still implement workarounds and fixes when it happens, but we are not responsible. Basic enterprise rules these days is to always pay someone else to be responsible.
- vidarh 1y ago
  Unless you put someone on retainer to be responsible, which you can do cheaper than to keep your AWS setup from breaking... (I do that for people; my AWS using customers consistently end up needing more help)
  - wredcoll 1y ago
    The point isn't cost, it's dodging responsibility.
    - vidarh 1y ago
      You can dodge responsibility equally well by outsourcing to people who'll run your bare metal setup for you. We exist from small consultancies like mine to huge multinationals.
- vb-8448 1y ago
  Actually nothing new here, this was the same in the pre-cloud era where everyone in enterprises prefer big names(ibm, microsoft, oracle, ecc) to pass the responsibility to them in case of failures ... aka "nobody get fired because of buying IBM"
  - marcosdumay 1y ago
    And the big name companies always refuse to take responsibility, and have worse reliability metrics than the lean alternatives... but somehow that is never a problem.
    - nickstinemates 1y ago
      Reality matters less than perception.
    - iso1631 1y ago
      The only metric that's important is the CTO's bonus When everyone is suffering because AWS is having its bi-yearly 8 hour outage, the CTO isn't blamed, bonus all round, and maybe the AWS sales team takes him for an apology lunch When the CTO is up for 1500 days straight then has a 2 hour downtime when nobody else does, the CTO is blamed, no bonus, and more likely to get fired
    - snoman 1y ago
      This fired of some warning bells in my head. Is the data available to actually make a verifiable claim regarding those reliability metrics like you are.
      - marcosdumay 1y ago
        Microsoft and Oracle were on the vanguard of suing people that published metrics about them into bankruptcy... So, do you trust the metrics they publish? IBM is older, and it's incredibly well documented how mainframes are more expensive to run than normal servers.
- chasd00 1y ago
  > then its their problem not yours this is the main advantage of cloud, no one cares if the site/service/app is down as long as it's someone else's fault and responsibility.
  - sarchertech 1y ago
    I don’t know. Hours into the recent AWS outrage (when it was already being covered by mainstream news) everyone at work was running around with their hair on fire trying to figure out how to get our services back up. I even saw a 700 person Teams meeting.
- b112 1y ago
  It's always your problem. The difference is, if you control things, you can fix it, work around it, resolve it. If not, you're at the mercy of others.

calgoo 1y ago

Also, when something breaks, you are responsible. If you put it in AWS like everyone else and it breaks, then its their problem not yours. We will still implement workarounds and fixes when it happens, but we are not responsible. Basic enterprise rules these days is to always pay someone else to be responsible.

vidarh 1y ago
Unless you put someone on retainer to be responsible, which you can do cheaper than to keep your AWS setup from breaking... (I do that for people; my AWS using customers consistently end up needing more help)
- wredcoll 1y ago
  The point isn't cost, it's dodging responsibility.
  - vidarh 1y ago
    You can dodge responsibility equally well by outsourcing to people who'll run your bare metal setup for you. We exist from small consultancies like mine to huge multinationals.
vb-8448 1y ago
Actually nothing new here, this was the same in the pre-cloud era where everyone in enterprises prefer big names(ibm, microsoft, oracle, ecc) to pass the responsibility to them in case of failures ... aka "nobody get fired because of buying IBM"
- marcosdumay 1y ago
  And the big name companies always refuse to take responsibility, and have worse reliability metrics than the lean alternatives... but somehow that is never a problem.
  - nickstinemates 1y ago
    Reality matters less than perception.
  - iso1631 1y ago
    The only metric that's important is the CTO's bonus When everyone is suffering because AWS is having its bi-yearly 8 hour outage, the CTO isn't blamed, bonus all round, and maybe the AWS sales team takes him for an apology lunch When the CTO is up for 1500 days straight then has a 2 hour downtime when nobody else does, the CTO is blamed, no bonus, and more likely to get fired
  - snoman 1y ago
    This fired of some warning bells in my head. Is the data available to actually make a verifiable claim regarding those reliability metrics like you are.
    - marcosdumay 1y ago
      Microsoft and Oracle were on the vanguard of suing people that published metrics about them into bankruptcy... So, do you trust the metrics they publish? IBM is older, and it's incredibly well documented how mainframes are more expensive to run than normal servers.
chasd00 1y ago
> then its their problem not yours this is the main advantage of cloud, no one cares if the site/service/app is down as long as it's someone else's fault and responsibility.
- sarchertech 1y ago
  I don’t know. Hours into the recent AWS outrage (when it was already being covered by mainstream news) everyone at work was running around with their hair on fire trying to figure out how to get our services back up. I even saw a 700 person Teams meeting.
b112 1y ago
It's always your problem. The difference is, if you control things, you can fix it, work around it, resolve it. If not, you're at the mercy of others.