6 ms·

The issue is that the 10k fridge is not actually any better. The "luxury" appliances can be double that and are still shit.

pixl97 1y ago
Depends if it's luxury or commercial. Commercial products are generally able to be fixed, but there is a quite a price premium on them.
- xethos 1y ago
  Commercial and consumer dishwashers are only the same in that they're both called "dishwashers" and use water. The former expect little to no food, have cycles measured in minutes, and run at temperatures that would eat more sensitive dishes alive.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    You were close. A commercial dishwasher will cut right through amounts of food that a normal residential dishwasher wouldn't touch (pre-wash is more for efficiency and to keep crap from piling up in the bottom tray of the dishwasher) and it will actually be ever so slightly less harsh on whatever goes in it (plastics are the problem mostly) because while it washes and rinses way hotter it doesn't have a stupid heating element that runs to dry things. It will also use fucktons more water and more power and make more noise.
    - xethos 1y ago
      Haven't worked in a commercial kitchen, and I've been wrong before (in this chain, no less), but how would the water be hotter without a heating element? Consumer dishwashers are plumbed into the hot water, so it can't be a difference in a direct hook-up. Without it's own heating element, I wouldn't assume it has its own built-in and ready-on-demand hot water tank, either. My last guess is more frequent cycles, meaning hotter water already at the spigot / dishwasher outlet, similar to the consumer recommendation to run the hot water for a minute prior to starting the dishwasher? Plastics / tupperware were actually what I had in mind lol
      - Dylan16807 1y ago
        Some dishwashers blow hot air to dry, some get the rinse water extra hot, some do neither. If they're talking about the water being hotter, but not a "stupid heating element that runs to dry", then it sounds like they mean the hot air.
      - lb1lf 1y ago
        At least the commercial ones I've been using on and off do not have a drying cycle at the end of the program; they just steam the heck out of whatever is inside, then once the cycle is through, you are expected to remove the tray with whatever you were washing and let it air dry on the bench. This in contrast to the consumer unit at home which heats the interior of the dishwasher for 45 minutes or so after it has done its washing cycle to dry things while still inside the dishwasher.
      - potato3732842 1y ago
        The water is hotter in a commercial dishwasher. I forget the exact numbers but it's substantially more. What the commercial dishwasher doesn't have is an "oven style" heating element running around the perimeter of the bottom (or somewhere thereabouts) to dry the dishes. Most residential dishwashers have this. This is why some dishes say "top rack only". The water coming out the top isn't any different. It's that you're moving the dish farther from the hot element. So a dish that goes through a commercial dishwasher sees higher average temp but substantially lower peak temp.
      - clifdweller 1y ago
        for commercial there are 2 options chemical and temp sanitization. From fda food code has to reach 171F to sanitize. most use a inline OnDemand heater with a couple taps so constant temp is close to 170 but will also pipe off steam to do a final sanitize. restaurants will also hand wash their plastics in a 3 sink setup water only needs to be 110F
- makeitdouble 1y ago
  Commercial products usually require knowledge (expertise?), and have their own limitations. Even repairability can be an issue in a different way. I don't know for dishwashers, commercial printers are expected to be serviced by the maker or affiliated business and getting parts as a mere peasant can be pretty complex. Surely rich people can just throw money at a contractor, but that's not what we're talking about I think (otherwise having a new one delivered everytime would also just work)
  - pixl97 1y ago
    I mean, repairing anything requires knowledge. The problem with most home devices is they are not repairable at all and you can't get parts. While I'm a computer farmer for my day job, I can repair a vast amount of different devices as long as they don't take specialised equipment like vacuum pumps. And while I don't consider myself a rich person, between my wife and I we're in the higher income brackets in the US, I still service as much of my own stuff as possible. And in general commercial stuff is in the same price ranges as the higher end consumer stuff.
    - brewdad 1y ago
      The good/bad part of modern consumer appliances is that they are largely giant computers with fewer mechanical parts to fail. They can be more reliable but when something breaks, it almost always requires replacing a main board that costs 25-50% of the replacement cost of the entire unit. I've had two boards die on appliances this year. Fortunately, warranty coverage paid for the parts. So now I have a practically new refrigerator and furnace. At least until they fail again in 3-5 years.
bleomycin 1y ago
Not quite accurate as a blanket statement. Munro did a very detailed tear down series of a sub zero refrigerator that’s very interesting. Youtube link: https://youtu.be/KAYj6m9QtDU https://youtu.be/KAYj6m9QtDU I wish more content like this existed. It’s the only type of review that is worth paying attention to. Long story short if you live in an energy market like california the energy savings of the sub zero will likely offsets its additions cost over the lifetime of the unit.
- nradov 1y ago
  It's so crazy that even though California is in some ways the center of the technology universe we have had a dysfunctional electrical grid and market for decades. This has been an ongoing governance failure across multiple administrations and political parties. If we ever want to build stuff here and cut the cost of living then cheaper electrical power is a necessity.
- hansvm 1y ago
  It's a little funny that, by far, the worst power and internet I've ever had [0], both by cost and by quality, has been in the Bay Area. The easiest way I'm aware of for me to cut my internet bill in half, cut my power bill 4x, have 30 fewer days per year containing electrical outages, and get back up to normal fiber speeds is to move to the Midwest. [0] Excluding anywhere I lived for less than a couple months, like the middle of the Pacific or an exceptionally rough road trip through Wyoming.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    When was that? Lots of people have solar here, we’ve had maybe 2 power outages for an hour or so in the last decade, and I pay $60 for 10Gbps fiber. Sure, electricity’s cheaper in the Midwest. We’re not exactly deprived of it in the Bay Area though.
    - hansvm 1y ago
      Here and now, for the last nearly a decade. I pay $70/mo for, on a good day, 20Mbps down, 100Kbps up, 400ms ping, with a data cap. I have at least two major power outages each year and dozens of minor incidents (with the general quality -- phase stability, surges, etc being less than elsewhere I've lived even when it's working). Good utilities are localized in the Bay.
dylan604 1y ago
The old fridge had much smaller usable volume inside. Modern insulation allows for thinner walls which increases capacity. Same for modern ovens.
oldpersonintx2 1y ago
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pixl97 1y ago

Depends if it's luxury or commercial. Commercial products are generally able to be fixed, but there is a quite a price premium on them.

xethos 1y ago
Commercial and consumer dishwashers are only the same in that they're both called "dishwashers" and use water. The former expect little to no food, have cycles measured in minutes, and run at temperatures that would eat more sensitive dishes alive.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  You were close. A commercial dishwasher will cut right through amounts of food that a normal residential dishwasher wouldn't touch (pre-wash is more for efficiency and to keep crap from piling up in the bottom tray of the dishwasher) and it will actually be ever so slightly less harsh on whatever goes in it (plastics are the problem mostly) because while it washes and rinses way hotter it doesn't have a stupid heating element that runs to dry things. It will also use fucktons more water and more power and make more noise.
  - xethos 1y ago
    Haven't worked in a commercial kitchen, and I've been wrong before (in this chain, no less), but how would the water be hotter without a heating element? Consumer dishwashers are plumbed into the hot water, so it can't be a difference in a direct hook-up. Without it's own heating element, I wouldn't assume it has its own built-in and ready-on-demand hot water tank, either. My last guess is more frequent cycles, meaning hotter water already at the spigot / dishwasher outlet, similar to the consumer recommendation to run the hot water for a minute prior to starting the dishwasher? Plastics / tupperware were actually what I had in mind lol
    - Dylan16807 1y ago
      Some dishwashers blow hot air to dry, some get the rinse water extra hot, some do neither. If they're talking about the water being hotter, but not a "stupid heating element that runs to dry", then it sounds like they mean the hot air.
    - lb1lf 1y ago
      At least the commercial ones I've been using on and off do not have a drying cycle at the end of the program; they just steam the heck out of whatever is inside, then once the cycle is through, you are expected to remove the tray with whatever you were washing and let it air dry on the bench. This in contrast to the consumer unit at home which heats the interior of the dishwasher for 45 minutes or so after it has done its washing cycle to dry things while still inside the dishwasher.
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      The water is hotter in a commercial dishwasher. I forget the exact numbers but it's substantially more. What the commercial dishwasher doesn't have is an "oven style" heating element running around the perimeter of the bottom (or somewhere thereabouts) to dry the dishes. Most residential dishwashers have this. This is why some dishes say "top rack only". The water coming out the top isn't any different. It's that you're moving the dish farther from the hot element. So a dish that goes through a commercial dishwasher sees higher average temp but substantially lower peak temp.
    - clifdweller 1y ago
      for commercial there are 2 options chemical and temp sanitization. From fda food code has to reach 171F to sanitize. most use a inline OnDemand heater with a couple taps so constant temp is close to 170 but will also pipe off steam to do a final sanitize. restaurants will also hand wash their plastics in a 3 sink setup water only needs to be 110F
makeitdouble 1y ago
Commercial products usually require knowledge (expertise?), and have their own limitations. Even repairability can be an issue in a different way. I don't know for dishwashers, commercial printers are expected to be serviced by the maker or affiliated business and getting parts as a mere peasant can be pretty complex. Surely rich people can just throw money at a contractor, but that's not what we're talking about I think (otherwise having a new one delivered everytime would also just work)
- pixl97 1y ago
  I mean, repairing anything requires knowledge. The problem with most home devices is they are not repairable at all and you can't get parts. While I'm a computer farmer for my day job, I can repair a vast amount of different devices as long as they don't take specialised equipment like vacuum pumps. And while I don't consider myself a rich person, between my wife and I we're in the higher income brackets in the US, I still service as much of my own stuff as possible. And in general commercial stuff is in the same price ranges as the higher end consumer stuff.
  - brewdad 1y ago
    The good/bad part of modern consumer appliances is that they are largely giant computers with fewer mechanical parts to fail. They can be more reliable but when something breaks, it almost always requires replacing a main board that costs 25-50% of the replacement cost of the entire unit. I've had two boards die on appliances this year. Fortunately, warranty coverage paid for the parts. So now I have a practically new refrigerator and furnace. At least until they fail again in 3-5 years.

bleomycin 1y ago

Not quite accurate as a blanket statement. Munro did a very detailed tear down series of a sub zero refrigerator that’s very interesting. Youtube link: https://youtu.be/KAYj6m9QtDU https://youtu.be/KAYj6m9QtDU I wish more content like this existed. It’s the only type of review that is worth paying attention to. Long story short if you live in an energy market like california the energy savings of the sub zero will likely offsets its additions cost over the lifetime of the unit.

nradov 1y ago
It's so crazy that even though California is in some ways the center of the technology universe we have had a dysfunctional electrical grid and market for decades. This has been an ongoing governance failure across multiple administrations and political parties. If we ever want to build stuff here and cut the cost of living then cheaper electrical power is a necessity.
hansvm 1y ago
It's a little funny that, by far, the worst power and internet I've ever had [0], both by cost and by quality, has been in the Bay Area. The easiest way I'm aware of for me to cut my internet bill in half, cut my power bill 4x, have 30 fewer days per year containing electrical outages, and get back up to normal fiber speeds is to move to the Midwest. [0] Excluding anywhere I lived for less than a couple months, like the middle of the Pacific or an exceptionally rough road trip through Wyoming.
- kstrauser 1y ago
  When was that? Lots of people have solar here, we’ve had maybe 2 power outages for an hour or so in the last decade, and I pay $60 for 10Gbps fiber. Sure, electricity’s cheaper in the Midwest. We’re not exactly deprived of it in the Bay Area though.
  - hansvm 1y ago
    Here and now, for the last nearly a decade. I pay $70/mo for, on a good day, 20Mbps down, 100Kbps up, 400ms ping, with a data cap. I have at least two major power outages each year and dozens of minor incidents (with the general quality -- phase stability, surges, etc being less than elsewhere I've lived even when it's working). Good utilities are localized in the Bay.

dylan604 1y ago

The old fridge had much smaller usable volume inside. Modern insulation allows for thinner walls which increases capacity. Same for modern ovens.

oldpersonintx2 1y ago

[dead]