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Why does Swiss cheese have holes?
- kleiba 11mo agoThe term "Swiss cheese" is a constant source of amusement for people from Europe... you know, like, there is only one type of cheese made in Switzerland...
- loloquwowndueo 11mo agoIt usually means Gruyère cheese.
- kgwgk 11mo agoWhich has no holes. (The cheese known as Gruyère in Switzerland, I mean.)
- loloquwowndueo 11mo agoWell - sure. Ever heard the phrase “contrary to popular belief”? :)
- kgwgk 11mo agoBut US Gruyere cheese DOES have holes: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-21/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-133/subpart-B/section-133.149 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-21/chapter-I/subchapter-B...
- bigiain 11mo agoWe must immediately start constructing all critical safety systems out of Gruyere. If there are no holes, then it's impossible for the holes to line up.
- JumpCrisscross 11mo agoFrench-style Gruyère can has holes. (Swiss does not.)
- ofalkaed 11mo agoAmerican Swiss cheese developed from Emmental cheese.
- riffraff 11mo agoIt is odd, but people often confuse Emmenthaler and Gruyere. Even in Italian (just across the border!) it was not uncommon to hear expressions like "full of holes like groviera", and it seems in French it's the same based on the existence of this Wikipedia page https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxe_du_fromage_%C3%A0_trous https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxe_du_fromage_%C3%A0_tro... Language is just strange.
- kgwgk 11mo agoThey also have their own “Gruyère” - different from the Swiss one and with holes - in France: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruy%C3%A8re_fran%C3%A7ais https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruy%C3%A8re_fran%C3%A7ais They also have a cheese similar to the Gruyère from Switzerland, but with a different name (the Gruyère part dropped from the name over time): https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comt%C3%A9_(fromage) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comt%C3%A9_(fromage)
- rkomorn 11mo agoI'm French and it apparently took more than four decades for me to TIL that we have our own Gruyère. I always assumed we were just calling Emmental the wrong thing. Then again most of what we call Gruyère is a somewhat industrialized store-bought thing that arguably tastes like neither Emmental not Gruyère (but at least it has holes, I guess). And to boot, I'm pretty sure we call "Gruyère" some of the products that are labeled as Emmental anyway. In retrospect, it makes sense we'd have our "own" given how finicky we are with names (of things we produce). Edit: turns out we've also bastardized Emmental anyway.
- HelloNurse 11mo agoThere's also a tight branding and trademark component. I remember a major ad campaign when proper imported "Emmental" was rebranded as "Emmentaler" because the former name was becoming generic, and a related ad campaign about positioning and promoting Emmentaler as one of several kinds of "Swiss Cheese" along with Gruyere, Sbrinz and maybe a fourth one I don't recollect.
- dragonwriter 11mo agoAs noted in the article, it is the cheese internationally known as Emmental, not Gruyère. Both Swiss and Gruyere cheese are regulated food names in the US Swiss (Emmentaler is an alternative name in the regs, but is a label of geographic origin in Switzerland) is defined at 21 CFR § 133.195, Gruyere at 21 CFR § 133.149.
- athenot 11mo agoOnly in France. For some reason, the names for Gruyère and Emmental got swapped there.
- jahbrewski 11mo agoCall me naive, but honestly never made the connection between swiss cheese and Switzerland.
- netsharc 11mo agoI live in the country, and when I went to USA I found it amusing that a sandwich's ingredients include "Swiss". (No mention of "cheese")
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- sojournerc 11mo agoIt's like saying "cheddar". Cheese is assumed
- shrx 11mo agoThere could be more to it; some processed cheese products can't legally be named cheese.
- gerdesj 11mo agoCheddar is a small town and a gorge in Somerset, UK. I live close by. Switzerland is an entire country with sodding great mountains and lakes, multiple towns, cities and a lot of worryingly loved leather clothing. How on earth can you reduce a nation that supplies the rather lovely Swiss Guard to the Vatican and rather a lot more (that word is working quite hard at this point and perspiring very heavily) to the entire world to ... cheese. I suggest you don't apply for any jobs in marketing. Your talents will be wasted, should any be found 8)
- netsharc 11mo agoSo, what's for dinner this Thanksgiving?
- criemen 11mo agoIn German, "Swiss cheese" is a term that's well known, and doesn't count that kind of amusement. For example, you could say that something "looks like swiss cheese" when it has a lot of holes in it, like very old clothing. It's often used slightly ironic, but that's not due to what you state.
- ckdot 11mo agoIn German „Swiss cheese“ simply means „Schweizer Käse“ or „Käse aus der Schweiz“ - but you’ll usually still find the exact type like Emmentaler on the label and packaging. So, as a German, it’s a bit amusing indeed.
- kleiba 11mo agoExactly. I bet no store in Germany sells cheese simply labeled "Swiss Cheese" (as the product name) while in the US, that's common.
- cubefox 11mo agoNo because "Swiss cheese" means "Emmentaler", not "Schweizer Käse". Quote from the article: > In the U.S., we call it “Swiss” cheese, while in Switzerland, it’s known as Emmental.
- kleiba 11mo agoWell, that's the point of the OP, isn't it? Emmental cheese is one of over 500 types of cheeses produced in Switzerland, but by calling this one product ("the") Swiss cheese, you're kinda implying that these hundreds of other cheeses that are actually also produced in Switzerland do not exist. It's a bit like: "In Germany, they call this car a BMW, but here we call it German Car."
- NoPicklez 11mo agoWell of course not, but at some point it became an icon. Similar to eating a Danish pastry, like the Danish only made one type of pastry... Of course cheese with holes in it isn't the only type of cheese they make
- dylan604 11mo agoI'd rather be known for Swiss cheese than American cheese. At least Swiss is actually cheese and not a cheese product. American cheese is nasty. It baffles me people not only eat it, but also like it
- gerdesj 11mo agoThere are largely three types of cheese in the US: Swiss, American and Cheddar. I live near to Cheddar (Somerset, UK) but I'm not going to get too outraged. All countries, without exception, do something unpleasant to an ingredient or dish that the rest of the world will cry foul over. It is the way of things.
- maxerickson 11mo agoDid you form this picture of US cheese after visiting a hot dog cart?
- selectodude 11mo agoFew things are more popular among Europeans than making up ignorant nonsense about how dumb and backwards Americans are.
- tomnipotent 11mo agoMy favorite is that we don't have bakeries or endless varieties of fresh bread.
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- eru 11mo agoIt's like British English, or Chinese cuisine.
- paradox460 11mo agoAs is "American cheese"
- Steve44 11mo agoIn the UK it's fairly common to use the term "Swiss cheese". Most people would know you are talking about Emmental or Gruyere and it would have the bubbles/holes in it. Although they are not the same cheese, they are quite close in texture and flavour and are fairly interchangeable to the point where I don't think a significant number of people could tell you which was which. There is also the Swiss Cheese Model which is when several unfortunate events all line up to cause a major incident.
- pezezin 11mo agoI am from Spain and it is the same in my country. If you ask the average Spanish person about "queso suizo", they will picture Emmental or Gruyere with the stereotypical holes in it.
- panick21 11mo agoIf they are close in taste then you have very mild versions and sup-par versions of them.
- enopod_ 11mo agoEmmentaler and Gruyère close in texture and flavour and interchangeable? Oh boy, if you ever travel to Switzerland, I recommend you to keep your opinions on cheese to yourself. ;) Emmentaler has holes, is low in salt and has a taste which is on the bland side (I personally don't like it), whereas Gruyère has no holes, is saltier and has a much richer and "rounder" flavour. It comes in different stages of ripening, from young, which is soft in texture and mild, to old, which is hard and has a much stronger flavour. I personally like Gruyère mi-salé a lot, the semi-ripened one. It's close to a perfect cheese if you ask me.
- Freak_NL 11mo agoI'll never understand how people can think 'Gruyère' and then imagine cheese with holes in it… A fun fact: the Dutch don't usually think of Emmentaler when you say 'Zwitserse kaas', but of these paper shakers filled with grated Schabziger: https://www.gourmandgazette.nl/2023/12/08/zwitserse-kaas/ https://www.gourmandgazette.nl/2023/12/08/zwitserse-kaas/ Those have been sold as 'Zwitserse strooikaas' for decades.
- IAmBroom 11mo agoThere is more than one kind of cheese in America, but only one is called "American cheese" (and it isn't actually, legally cheese, BTW...).
- kleiba 11mo ago"Today, cheese dairies and mountain pastures in Switzerland produce nearly 500 varieties of cheese, not counting fresh cheeses." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheeses_and_dairy_products https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheeses_and_dairy_produc...
- gus_massa 11mo agoBut ... why only a few big holes? Sometimes "fresh cheese" develop a lot of small holes (and a strong flavor), but no big holes. Why big holes?
- ofalkaed 11mo agoBaby Swiss and Lacey Swiss are small hole varieties.
- deadbolt 11mo agoI don't believe Baby Swiss is actually a variety of Swiss (Emmental) cheese, rather than a completely different cheese. IIRC Baby Swiss was invented in America and uses a different process. I am not familiar with Lacey Swiss so no opinion on that one.
- riffraff 11mo agoMany small holes collapsing into a few large ones, perhaps? You can sometimes see where two holes merged.
- gus_massa 11mo agoThat's a good idea, but if the holes collapse I expect more variation in size. My guess is that the CO2 diffuses until it finds a nearby hole. Did someone put a whole cheese in MNR to track the holes? (I guess an ultrasound image device is cheaper. Is it possible to use a CT adding contrast to the cheese?)
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- TheAdamist 11mo agoHavarti has a lot of small holes, but its a different kind of cheese
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- tmnvix 11mo agoTom Scott on why Swiss Cheese was losing its holes (spoiler: the process became too sanitised - reintroducing impurities solved the problem). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evV05QeSjAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evV05QeSjAw
- l5870uoo9y 11mo agoAnother fact about Emmentaler cheese is that it has a relative low salt content compared to other cheeses.
- throwaway422432 11mo agoYes, it's one of the better cheeses if you're on a sodium-reduced diet. Fresh Mozzarella is another good one. It's a fairly safe bet that the harder the cheese, the higher the sodium content.
- shevy-java 11mo agoBecause the damn swiss folks really want to sell more cheese, without actually producing more cheese! So the proper way is to cut half the cheese out, say that holes are NECESSARY and IMPORTANT - and then sell twice as much as before. They are a genius people.
- mark-r 11mo agoIsn't cheese usually sold by weight? So your theory, erm, has holes in it.
- panick21 11mo agoThe fancy Emmentaler sometimes has water in the holes. So that increases the weight.
- mattmaroon 11mo agoLike a White Castle burger!
- IAmBroom 11mo agoNo, White Castle profits are linearly related to BAC (blood alcohol content).
- rootusrootus 11mo agoFun fact - in Switzerland the holes are not permitted. Bonus fact - Switzerland imports more cheese than it exports.
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago> in Switzerland the holes are not permitted For Emmentaler?
- HelloNurse 11mo agoSomeone might be confusing the large holes of Emmentaler (and imitations thereof) with the smaller and sparser ones of Gruyère.
- chris_va 11mo ago> Properly formed eyes are a mark of quality. Except when I asked someone who makes cheese in Switzerland, they told me almost the opposite (and mostly that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff). As an aside, what are the odds this article was written by AI? It has that feel (minus random bolding and bullet points).
- rootusrootus 11mo agoWhy on Earth would they intentionally export only their garbage cheese? Then the world will only know them for that. The holes in modern Emmental cheese are created intentionally. In Switzerland the additive used to create them is forbidden. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmental_cheese#Natural_holes_in_cheese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmental_cheese#Natural_holes_...
- helicone 11mo agobecause their garbage cheese is still miles better than what other people make, and there's no cheese market large enough and rich enough to pay them what their top cheese is worth, so its worth more just to keep it for themselves
- rootusrootus 11mo ago> there's no cheese market large enough and rich enough to pay them what their top cheese is worth That sounds like the market expressing the collective opinion that their cheese is not miles better than what other people make. On a related note, the best seems to be considered Emmentaler AOC, and it does not seem especially difficult to purchase outside of Switzerland.
- eru 11mo agoEmmentaler is a fairly common cheese. I would expect the 'best' to be some obscure cheese that neither you nor me have heard of. I'm quite fond of the Belper Knolle, but even that ain't particularly obscure.
- not4uffin 11mo agoAs a kid, I was told it was due to rats and other critters getting into the cheese. I’d then proceed to wonder why no adults thought to throw it out, much less eat the stuff.
- sixtyj 11mo agoFor those who are interested, Taste Atlas has a very huge list of cheese. https://www.tasteatlas.com/cheese https://www.tasteatlas.com/cheese
- amelius 11mo agoWhy does bread have holes?
- mikkupikku 11mo agoI believe bread has been holey ever since the Last Supper.
- fuzztester 11mo agoActually, it's the holes that have bread (around them). Lateral thinking.
- xg15 11mo agoTIL "Swiss cheese" is apparently a specific brand of cheese in the US and not just cheese from Switzerland.
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago> "Swiss cheese" is apparently a specific brand of cheese in the US Type. And there are lots of non-Swiss Emmantaler producers.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- ekianjo 11mo agoIt does not. Swiss cheese does not have holes.
- ecoled_ame 11mo agoboom baby
- ricudis 11mo agoSwiss cheese have holes so the swiss dwarfs can hide in them.
- fuzztester 11mo agoSo in Switzerland, Swiss cheese dwarfs Swiss dwarfs in size.
- joncrane 11mo agoI love that the first sentence of the article has the simple answer, and as you read more, you get more detail. The opposite of the "click bait" trend.
- zombot 11mo agoIt's because of bacterial farts.
- ideasarecool 11mo agoSwiss army dual uses cheese as target practice?
- shermantanktop 11mo ago> In the U.S., we call it “Swiss” cheese, while in Switzerland, it’s known as Emmental. What? I struggle to see how this sentence makes any sense. The two products can both have holes, I guess? But grocery store Swiss cheese in the US is a waxy bland cheese product with a slight tang, whereas Emmentaler is complex, funky and quite assertive by comparison. I doubt the fans of either product love the other.
- Loic 11mo agoSwiss like French have hundreds of different cheeses, so calling a specific cheese a Swiss cheese is like telling "Why does American car is powered by an electrical motor?", talking about a specific Tesla car while you have hundreds of other cars manufactured in the US.
- Copenjin 11mo agoLike "parmesan" the cheap versions you find easily has no relationship with the actual thing, even if decades ago maybe the actual thing was initially imported with no local alternative.
- SamLeBarbare 11mo agoWe add holes for USA only, because 39% of taxes on our exportations.
- pythg 11mo agoI believe one of the first publications explaining the phenomenon dates back to 2015. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0958694615000631 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095869461... It details the formation of the holes, their size, etc. I remember sending it at the time as a contribution here, thinking the topic was worth interest. Unfortunately, it fell through the cracks. I had also submitted it for approval to the Ig Nobel committee (it diverges somewhat, strictly speaking, from the philosophy of the prize). I received a reply saying it would be reviewed.
- shmaplex 11mo agoThis makes me want to revive my old Curd Collective app.
- lproven 11mo agoTIL that what Americans call "swiss cheese" is what Europeans call Emmental or Emmentaler -- or at least Emmentaler style.