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Actual thieves don't give a shit to learn lock picking, they can use a fine toothed sawzall or oxy-acetylene torch and defeat any lock just as fast without havi
by mothballed 1y ago
Actual thieves don't give a shit to learn lock picking, they can use a fine toothed sawzall or oxy-acetylene torch and defeat any lock just as fast without having to youtube the particular brand.
- b00ty4breakfast 1y agomost thieves don't even go that far. they find stuff that isn't locked or they kick in the door.
- Ekaros 1y agoIt is actually surprising just how little brute force many semi-decent padlocks can handle. A decent mallet and some force concentrator and I think good amount of them will fail.
- ortusdux 1y agoI just need to be able to show the insurance company a police report and obvious tampering. On video, someone using an aluminum shim looks the same as someone using a key, and any evidence would require some decent forensics. Same goes for skilled lockpicking and bump-keying. Ideally, the weakest link should be the door, the hinges, the shackle, etc.
- jorvi 1y agoPadlocks can be snapped open by angling two wrenches: https://youtu.be/dBSSA5ot0tA https://youtu.be/dBSSA5ot0tA This even works with bigger padlocks, you just need two really big wrenches and a buddy to help you.
- Phui3ferubus 1y agoThere are diminishing returns. Just look at bike locks. Anything higher than trash tier, and the issue is finding a dedicated bike stand, since anything else will get destroyed by the grinder faster than the lock.
- butlike 1y agobike theft should be classified as a felony akin to grand theft auto
- Noumenon72 1y agoInstead of declaring all bike thieves felons and imprisoning the 1% of them we manage to catch, we should spend our money on sting operations that catch the 50 or so individuals in each city that steal 80% of the bikes, and reserve the felony treatment for repeat offenders.
- pixl97 1y agoYea, be rather dumb for someone to grab their red Huffy at the park and get a felony charge because they picked up a look alike bike.
- acdha 1y agoI like the bait bike operations some police departments do to catch the shops buying stolen bikes. Addicts steal things they can fence and cutting into the business side means you don’t have to catch nearly as many people, although Facebook is determined to fill some of the gaps.
- dahart 1y agoI helped catch one of these repeat offenders when my bike was stolen. When it was recovered they told me they had a huge warehouse of bikes that nobody would claim, and mentioned 90%-ish of all bikes aren’t recovered and they were having space problems just storing all the unclaimed bikes. First thing we actually need to do is get people to register their bikes before they’re stolen, and then report them missing after. Funny side note, the cops actually offered to let me setup the sting, make contact with the thief and pose as a buyer. I was sure they’d sternly recommend I do not get involved, so I was very surprised, but it was a busy night when I called and they had no officers immediately available. I did make online contact, but due to delays setting up the meet, the cops ended up handling it without me, and when I went to pick it up they were rightfully very proud of catching the guy and being able to return the bike to me.
- butlike 1y agobut then it's obvious the locked thing in question had been defiled. To exfiltrate without detection is the real skill
- Johnny555 1y agoBut usually the thing that's locked up can survive even less brute force than the lock -- a storage unit near mine was broken into, and the unit owner (who was there with the police) said the thieves just pried off the storage unit lock, the sheet metal door literally tore and the entire locking mechanism came out. This was an outdoor unit, the thieves came in over the fence (the barbed wire on the fence didn't slow them), and left the same way. If I had anything valuable, I'd keep it in an indoor unit where at least there's a locked door in the way.
- lisbbb 1y agoSo the whole Breaking Bad cash hoard on pallets thing is not a good idea?
- dreamcompiler 1y agoBarbed wire is security theater. It was invented for cattle, and it does a reasonably good job of keeping cattle confined. (It doesn't work well for horses because horses are even more stupid than cattle and horses repeatedly injure themselves on it and the wounds get infected.) Barbed wire doesn't work for humans, especially humans who have some familiarity with it.
- andrewflnr 1y agoI assume that means humans with adequate tools. If I didn't at least have some wire cutters or a carpet I don't know how I would get through it without grievous injury. (I further assume we're not talking about the serious barbed wire from WWI.)
- Johnny555 1y agoIn this case, they did it with a moving blanket -- just folded it over and tossed it over the barbed wire at the top of the fence, then scaled the fence. It was still laying over the fence then next day.
- austern 1y agoBarbed wire worked well for human soldiers in WWI. It was part of a security system that also included trenches, artillery, machine guns, and active counterattacks, but it was a crucial part.
- everforward 1y agoI don't think there's much of a point. If the thief came prepared with tools and is willing to make a lot of noise, there's not a ton that can be done. Without even exotic tools, what are the odds the door the lock is attached to will withstand a crowbar? Or the same mallet and force concentrator applied to the door/hinges/where the lock attaches?
- magarnicle 1y agoI learned this as a kid: that big, chunky padlock on our garden shed could be busted open by a 10-year-old with a cricket stump and 3 seconds of pulling.
- mindslight 1y agoA portable plasma cutter? What is this, Star Trek? Are there some extremely-high-power-density battery-operated plasma cutters available on Aliexpress that I haven't yet run across? Or maybe I should locate my safe far away from my stove/dryer receptacles?
- mothballed 1y agoYou're right, I've mixed them up with portable oxy-acetylene torch, unless they're just backing up to the lock in a pick-up.
- mindslight 1y agoDamn, I was hoping I was wrong. Going to need some kind of energy weapon to use against the coming robot armies.
- LorenPechtel 1y agoDepends on how portable. A while back I was making a point about the border wall farce--and found everything I would need to do "portable" plasma cutting on said wall on Home Depot's website. Not pick it up type portable, but put it in a wagon type portable. (Generator, not batteries.)
- mindslight 1y agoI don't know how anybody can look at those rusty metal pylons and not think their natural habitat is at home on top of a 40 year old white Toyota pickup with a suspension that long ago achieved sainthood. Like if I were looking to attract illegal immigrants, those pylons would be exactly what I would use. But then again isn't this just the standard fascist pattern? Propose a comically self-defeating solution to some problem, and build a tribal identity around aggressively denying the obvious. It's like the social justice preaching to the choir writ large.
- lisbbb 1y agoA plasma cutter needs a pretty decent supply of compressed air
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- polygot 1y agoIt’s much more difficult to tell if someone bypassed the lock if they picked it (and relocked it), as opposed to cutting it off completely
- vkou 1y agoWhich is relevant when you're defending against Ocean's 11 or the Mossad, but for the other 99.999% of us, the lock is there to keep a bored teenager or a meth junkie out. Or, more realistically, to convince an insurer that we've made a token effort to keep them out.
- theshrike79 1y agoThis is exactly the point. The lock is there to keep the honest people out AND leave a trace that someone came in forcibly when they want to do so. Which is why stuff like bump keying those stupid flat-keyed American locks is so scary because it requires almost zero skill and leaves very little traces. Unless an expert takes apart the lock investigating for traces, there's no way to tell it was opened without a key.
- vkou 1y agoWhat exactly is going on that: 1. You (or someone else) gives enough of a crap to be doing forensics about how a lock was circumvented. 2. You clearly care so much about security to do those forensics, but not enough to, I don't know, install a camera? Will an insurer, or a cop that you're making a police report to actually physically check if the lock was shimmed?
- burkaman 1y agoThat is a subset of thieves. There are still plenty of situations where it is beneficial to have a lock that can't be opened in 5 seconds with a paperclip, like a school or gym locker room for example. Nobody is bringing a sawzall into the gym while it's open. Similarly, I know the lock on my front door is not going to stop anyone who really wants to get inside, but it does stop drunk people or bored kids from wandering in because it's easy.
- jrnng 1y ago> Nobody is bringing a sawzall into the gym while it's open. They are bringing in bolt cutters to locker rooms. The locker metal loop that the lock threads through is easier to cut than the lock. I've first hand seen lockers destroyed to remove the lock. Not while the break in is happening but it's easy piece the crime scene back together to understand their tools. Manual bolt cutters are almost silent except for the "thunk" when it breaks the metal, and there are even battery operated bolt cutters that are quick and compact.
- rags2riches 1y ago> I've first hand seen lockers destroyed to remove the lock. A neighbor secured his expensive bike with a hefty lock and chain around a tree in our courtyard. Bad guys brought a saw. I still miss that tree.
- roncesvalles 1y agoI'm convinced there is basically no foolproof way to secure a bicycle in public. I've seen everything from braided steel being cut clean to combination bike locks getting picked (by the attacker actually figuring out the correct combination, not just brute-forcing it apart or wangjangling a paperclip). They just need to steal 1 good bicycle to more than pay off the cost of their equipment. One stolen bicycle could feed a family for a week. In some place like the Bay Area where $1000 bicycles abound, the economics are just too appealing.
- 1y ago
- WalterBright 1y agoI used to rent a storage unit. I lost the key to it, and went to the manager. He came back to the unit with a small battery powered grinder. Cut the padlock's loop through in a few seconds. Most locks are only good if the attacker doesn't have any tools.
- bombcar 1y agoFor surprise of tool used the saw vs safe are the best: https://youtu.be/2guvwQvElA8 https://youtu.be/2guvwQvElA8 The main thing locks do is make it noisy to get in.
- oniony 1y agoUnless they have an inductive heater.
- theoreticalmal 1y agoPowered by what?
- oniony 1y agoBattery for stealth. https://youtu.be/VTIWcK14tQE?si=uNNbgWgASpAcgStB https://youtu.be/VTIWcK14tQE?si=uNNbgWgASpAcgStB
- quickthrowman 1y agoTo be fair to Sentry Safe, this product is designed to be resistant to fire. A better name for this product would be ‘fire resistant box’ instead of ‘fire safe’ but that’s what they call it for marketing reasons. A hardened metal safe designed to be resistant to cutting can still be cut through, just not in seconds with a screamer saw (trade name for a metal cutting circular saw) If you want truly secure, encase your metal box in concrete like John Wick. Access is difficult but security is high :)
- 1y ago
- ranger_danger 1y agoEntirely depends on what manner of thief we are talking about here, what they're going after, how important it is to them, and how much they care about the owner knowing the lock was tampered with. This is why I don't like such black-and-white opinions... I think the answer is rarely so simple.
- mothballed 1y agoI think it's largely a class or educational divide. I come from a very hick, redneck, working class area. People use black-and-white statements and course language with the understanding that corner cases will exist anyway. My use of this type of language common in more middle America is something I find the more silicon valley or tech centered HN constantly finds issue with. It's common in more upper-crust / educated circles to shit on people that use more course, black and white language. I believe it has more to do with cultural divide than misunderstanding that rare/corner cases exist. In another recent exchange on HN, I was damned for using the word 'never.' They didn't even explain why, just said they wouldn't believe people that used it. I was using it in the redneck sense "you'll never get that girl" as in it's extremely unlikely to the point it's hardly worth even considering, rather than the nerded out version that it means the chance is literally precisely 0.
- otterley 1y ago.
- mothballed 1y agono, and I don't see how you could possibly deduce that from my statement
- otterley 1y ago.
- 1y ago
- MisterTea 1y agoA battery powered angle grinder with a zip wheel is the best lock picking tool out there. Hell, a cordless Dremel with a zip wheel might do it.
- lisbbb 1y agoYes. I once saw a guy open a bike U-lock using a car scissor jack and he was done in about 20 seconds and the bike was gone. Nowadays there are very good battery powered grinders that can take a cutoff wheel and no padlock is going to resist that.
- amluto 1y agoBut there are a handful of new U-locks that are quite difficult to cut using angle grinders.
- slenk 1y agoNo one is doing that in a nice residential neighborhood
- zie 1y agoThat's when people can get away with it in broad daylight :) Because everyone thinks like you.
- paradox460 1y agoGet a used pickup, get some vinyl letters at home Depot, put something like "a+ home services" on the side, and you can probably break into a few dozen suburban homes without anyone reporting you
- true_religion 1y agoWalk around in a hi-viz jacket, and you can pretty much be ignored by everyone except specialized security.
- ProllyInfamous 1y ago>except specialized security That's when you add a clipboard and/or hardhat to increase odds.
- slenk 1y agoI also have a few tools from CI so I don't know what that makes me
- mk89 1y agoIt depends on where you live. I guess it's not uncommon to hear about someone entering a building "as the delivery guy" just to try to pick a lock and see which one opens. If you make too much noise people will get suspicious and might call the police.
- umvi 1y agoActual thieves are most interested in low effort/fast methods of bypassing locks. Master single pin picking to LPL's level and the thief might as well just turn locksmithing into a career instead of stealing. Low effort attacks like shimming, raking, bumping though might be worth a thief's time to learn.
- Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 1y agoSome are still resisting this kind of attacks. The hiplok D1000 has a thick rubber like abrasive coating that makes it super hard to cut through the metal with power tools
- michaelbarton 1y agoI had one of these for my e-bike in Oakland. The thieves used an angle grinder to cut through the bike stand instead The solution in the east bay seems to be “don’t use a valuable bike”
- Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 1y agoThat's why I have a dirty bike with a motorbike's chain wrapped around the wheels and stand. So they would have to cut through the wheel too.
- ProllyInfamous 1y agoThese jobsite storage boxes [0] are typically too heavy to steal (and can also be anchor-bolted), and the locks are highly-recessed within an enclosure... practically the only exposure is the keyway... and then there's thousands of dollars of tools inside. Worth it for smarter crooks. I'm a former IBEW electrician, and I've seen both stranger and more-miraculous occurrences — but I've seen it all. [0] https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-10011/Tool-Storage/Knaack-Jobsite-Box https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-10011/Tool-Storage/Kn...
- Arrath 1y agoOh man, reminds me of one project where theives rolled up with a truck, hotwired a forklift and loaded up 3 of these boxes.
- Dilettante_ 1y agoThe National Guard Depot at Ocean Docks?
- Arrath 1y agoNah just an unremarkable subdivision development in middle america.
- ProllyInfamous 1y agoI trained a few years as an IBEW electrician in large government data centers, but have done decades of residential side work (mostly 500k-2M suburbia): The stuff you actually witnessed on both types of jobsites often isn't believable. But I've seen [your comment] many times, in the middle of nowhere, with trailcams rolling and tweekers not giving AF, smiling as they roll away with your belongings... ---- We caught a burglar once in our wire warehouse... huffing our marking paint, but on his way to scoring a five-figure copper haul. As foreman, I had to pull a few of my electricians off of the young man (~20~white~highAF) — I sent my guys to their jobsites, keeping myself and two larger others to detain the guy until the police arrived: arrested. Drawn out court proceedings 5x. Dismissed =( "Adjudicated" That little twerp ended up having already become a career criminal, at just two decades on this earth. He needed good guys like mine to beat his ass a few times, like his family never did the favor of helping him learn. Next time my guys will not be calling the police, with blessings.