8 ms·
Microsoft in court for allegedly misleading Australians over 365 subscriptions
- misswaterfairy 1y agoAwesome that the ACCC, Australia's consumer watchdog, is taking this up. It's really shitty that companies believe they can pull these stunts and get away with it.
- lysp 1y agoThe ACCC is actually quite switched on to any misleading conduct. They have gone after Airbnb / Airlines / Hotel Booking / Concert Tickets - for misleading conduct. Especially business that use drip pricing (adding compulsory hidden fees later) or misleading prices like in the Microsoft case. Anything sneaky - they're normally right on to it.
- yen223 1y agoI recently learned this, but the reason Steam offers 2-hour no-questions-asked full refunds was partially because of a lawsuit by the ACCC
- wiredpancake 1y ago[dead]
- Qem 1y ago> "Following a detailed investigation, the ACCC alleges that Microsoft deliberately hit this third option, to retain the old plan at the old price, in order to increase the uptake of Copilot and the increased revenue from the Copilot integrated plans," ACCC chair Gina Cass-Gottlieb said. The product is so good that they need to scam people into buying it.
- xaxaxb 1y agoUse LibreOffice on Windows. Microsoft Office used to come bundled with Windows, as an office suite. Now it's a subscription product. This is a bad decision; shows how Microsoft can't keep it up together. Even if it had been one-time purchase with LTS updates and everything, just like it used to, one could possible think of buying it. But, $100/year for personal use?? What's so great about MS Office that LibreOffice can't do?? Get LibreOffice, even if you use Windows.
- general1465 1y agoExcel
- xaxaxb 1y agoAt consumer-level, I believe LibreCalc should be enough. But yes, if you're in an org doing Excel-fu, you'd already get licensed access.
- TiredOfLife 1y ago> Microsoft Office used to come bundled with Windows, as an office suite. Never was. You probably got it installed by friendly it guy or the store was just installing pirated versions. > Now it's a subscription product. There is also pay once version. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/p/office-home-business-2024/cfq7ttc0pbm7 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/p/office-home-... > But, $100/year for personal use?? The subscription comes with 1TB of OneDrive storage. Look up how much 1TB of storage costs usually > What's so great about MS Office that LibreOffice can't do?? Work with spreadsheets more complicated than two cells.
- lelanthran 1y ago>> What's so great about MS Office that LibreOffice can't do?? > Work with spreadsheets more complicated than two cells. I use both daily. You're misrepresenting what LibreOffice can do; 99% of the people I see using excel are using the exact same 20% of its capabilities. Quick-n-Dirty database that they can update during sales meetings and create charts from. You think another spreadsheet can't do that?
- nashashmi 1y agoYou can still do the same now. Go to cancellation and be offered a package without AI.
- Liquix 1y agoor cancel your subscription. you would not continue to patronize a restaurant that intentionally put an extra charge on your bill to make themselves more money. why continue to pay M$ after they deliberately tried to trick you to squeeze out more profit?
- zerosizedweasle 1y agoI feel like tech companies are sparing no shenanigans to be able to say people are paying for AI. Shouldn't it sell itself if it is as world changing (in it's current form) as people claim?
- noir_lord 1y agoShhh - We aren't supposed to point out that the 4 Emperors of the Apocalypse are naked.
- jsheard 1y agohttps://www.perspectives.plus/p/microsoft-365-copilot-commercial-failure https://www.perspectives.plus/p/microsoft-365-copilot-commer... Even after putting their thumb on the scale, the numbers are still dismal. Not even a 2% conversion rate.
- mrweasel 1y agoAt what point does someone in management step in and kill of the product? 2% should be a pretty clear sign that the product is either price entirely wrong, or just not something that anyone wants to buy. Are Microsoft just in to deep at this point? They killed one off their flagship brands (Office) in favour of Microsoft 365 Copilot, shouldn't someone be fired for that decision at this point? I'm looking forward to the books and articles in 10 - 20 years time, attempting to explain what happened internally at Microsoft these past years.
- estimator7292 1y agoThe cost is already sunk and the only alternative to forcibly extracting any profit is to admit they got suckered into the hype and burned billions of dollars for nothing
- KvanteKat 1y agoSure, but the alternative is not really any better: if the choice is between being the guy who got it wrong vs. being the guy who got it wrong _and_ being the guy who persisted in throwing good money after bad, surely the former is prefereable. As far as I see, the fact that they keep going indicates that they genuinely still believe Copilot could pan out and become profittable in the long run.
- mikebonnell 1y agoPretty sure Microsoft is going to try and get a settlement. The evidence is very clear.
- ChrisArchitect 1y ago[dead]
- akulbe 1y agoGoogle is doing exactly the same thing. Our monthly rates for Workspace went up because of the AI crap we didn't ask for.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoThe price went up because the seller was willing to bet enough people would keep paying it to more than offset the people who stop paying it. The addition of a feature no one wants is just marketing to make buyers feel better about having less money.
- trashb 1y agoI feel like a lot of people don't internalize this. The features don't matter as long as people put up the price for what they require. The job of the salesman/marketing team is to bet on a balance that will net the company money. The features are just the sales pitch that convince you you need the latest and greatest (comparable to a sports car salesman selling you the new v8 model instead of the more economical v6).
- jeppester 1y agoIt should not be normal that companies are trying to fool their customers. I may be wrong, but I feel that dark patterns have gotten worse and have become quite normalised. I'm well aware that companies are not your friends, and they are only in it to earn as much money as possible etc. But in the ideal world it should never be a consideration to willingly deceive your customers. Then something is wrong that needs fixing.
- zerosizedweasle 1y agoIf your product is this bad and no one wants to buy it normally, maybe you should build a new product.
- estimator7292 1y agoBut it's so much more profitable for shareholders to force users to engage with the shitty product
- givemeethekeys 1y agoIt's much cheaper for execs to buy bundled "it can do everything for less!" junk for the peasants. That and, they're paying for Excel anyway...
- cogman10 1y agoLiterally the exact reason we ended up with MS teams instead of slack.
- wat10000 1y agoEven if you have a great product, you'll still get more money out of people if you apply some dark patterns like this. It's very hard for a company to resist that siren call.
- vjvjvjvjghv 1y agoMaking new products is very hard. Just look at the innovation output of the tech giants. Compared to the resources they have it’s pretty pathetic. They are simply out of ideas.
- jbombadil 1y agoLooks like Microsoft is taking a page out of the cable companies' playbook. Next up, there will be "discounted" Copilot 365 or whatever: a 2 year contract with the "promotional price" locked in and a penalty fee for cancelling early.
- tzs 1y agoThey have switched people to the plan with Copilot in the US too. I just checked and next renewal is set for the $99 plan with Copilot instead of the $69 plan I had been on. I remember some email from them saying the Copilot was now on my plan, but I don't recall anything saying that this was actually a different, more expansive plan, or that Copilot was just a trial and the plan would switch until I took action, or anything like that. Here's how to get back to your old plan: • find the Services & Subscriptions page on your account and select Manage. • click "Cancel Subscription". • On the page that brings up there will be an option to switch to a different plan. That should have the "Personal Classic" plan. There's also "Family Classic" for people that want the family plan without Copilot. Another way that some have reported works is to simply turn off recurring billing. That then sometimes triggers an offer to switch plans that includes the Classic plans.
- thehoff 1y agoThanks, just did this on our family plan.
- inquirerGeneral 1y agoThey also added more to the 365 Family Manager family premium plan though -- they ended Copilot Pro as that was an add-on that made no sense when people already had to juggle the other two copilots that are finally "settling in". Good move there, at least. > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nickdc_copilot-pro-is-no-more-microsoft-has-now-activity-7379534441733525504-Eg7W/?rcm=ACoAACncE6AB5P-r9BFKJ29aLQOMZlF8-NzrrFk https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nickdc_copilot-pro-is-no-more... > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nickdc_copilot-pro-is-no-more-microsoft-has-now-activity-7379534441733525504-Eg7W/?rcm=ACoAACncE6AB5P-r9BFKJ29aLQOMZlF8-NzrrFk https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nickdc_copilot-pro-is-no-more...
- EvanAnderson 1y agoThank you. This workflow worked for my US account just fine, though my account just said "Subscriptions" rather "Services & Subscriptions". My plan renewed back in May at the new rate. Microsoft did not advertise that there was any way to remain with the "Classic" plan. I've also never used the Copilot "features". I'd absolutely sign-on to a class action suit to get some money back. Even if it ends up just enriching the attorneys (which class actions inevitably do) Microsoft needs as much "correction" about this behavior as possible.
- nephrite 1y agoIt is strange that MS added third option but lied that there was not. They could just not include it, could they?
- moi2388 1y agoHuh, I just noticed I had also been switched. Nice, just switched back. F*ck off with the AI bullshit already, Microsoft.
- netsharc 1y agoStop giving them your money if you want them to stop. I believe Office 2016 is available in the shady corners of the Internet..
- sandworm101 1y agoEvery bad day for Microsoft is another great day for Linux. You have choices. Make them.
- aquafox 1y agoI once bought an Office 2016 license and when I installed it this year on a new laptop, it turned itself into a trimmed down O365. After the first Office update, I got a non-closable ad next to my Excel spreadsheet to upgrade to a full O365. Even more, I was only able to save files to OneDrive and not locally. That was not what I originally paid for!
- Tepix 1y agoIt's fraud. Plain and simple.
- amlib 1y agoSoftware as a Service is fraud
- paganel 1y ago> I was only able to save files to OneDrive and not locally. I find this very infuriating, and I've stopped using MS for more than 10 years now. They used to be a proper software company, with their flows, of course, but quite professional in the great scheme of things. But what you're describing goes against everything that I've valued as a computer programmer when I entered this field of work ~20 years ago.
- stevesimmons 1y agoI am in the UK. I got Microsoft's emails, did not want Microsoft's forced imposition of Copilot in my Office subscription (regardless of price), found the classic option mentioned in online forums, and managed to switch to it just before my renewal. My 89 year old aunt on the other hand got stung for the unwanted forced upgrade. I had to call Microsoft, complained about them unfairly exploiting vulnerable customers, and eventually got a downgrade and the difference refunded. What really annoys me about this - quite apart from the initial deception/misrepresentation - is I now expect Microsoft to pull similar tricks in future. A real disincentive to sign up to any other 'value-added' services. Why make subscriptions so full of traps that consumers end up hating you? (Yes, I know, so some GM can hit this quarter's bonus) That reminds me, having just cancelled Spotify (due to their price rise), Disney+ is next on the list. Maybe Netflix too.
- sireat 1y agoThis 30 Euro jump in Europe was a kick in the pants for me. Even though it is still a relatively good deal for a Family Plan (compared to say Google Drive or Dropbox) for OneDrive, I finally dropped my Microsoft 365 Family plan. The final straw was that the Copilot was completely unhelpful and hallucinated features Office portal does not have.
- loeg 1y agoSemi tangential, but I'm amazed there isn't more uproar over what Microsoft is doing with Windows 10 <-> 11 and devices that don't have hardware TPM. Just completely fucking their user base, to what end? A one-time bump in sales for hardware partners?
- mythrwy 1y agoThey have been screwing over their user base for a long time though incrementally.
- loeg 1y agoThings were pretty good for like a decade, from Windows 7 through most of 10!
- Krssst 1y ago10 was the beginning of forced updates, forced telemetry and disregard for user consent. 10 is the boundary. For me it's the beginning of when consent started being ignored by default everywhere. Microsoft sets the example, and the example is that the user choices do not matter at all. Well, software do ask for consent sometime. But asking again every once in a while until the user misclicks is not that.
- netsharc 1y agoNot to mention the ecological destruction. Perfectly good computers, but support for the OS people are used to is now over.. Microsoft used to have the motto "Where do you want to go today?". Seems like Copilot has decided we should all go to hell.
- iptq 1y agoThe $50 million punishment feels so insubstantial to Microsoft that they probably wouldn't even think twice before doing similar things again or worse. Only things that could threaten the bottom line would actually make companies reconsider.
- mattmanser 1y agoNo expert, but these fines are usually exponential. Usually they start with a slap on the wrist of $100,000s, then climb to the millions. That the opening figure is so high it's clear that if MS ever do it again the fine will be in the billions. So you might even say it's actually a moderately strong statement by the Australian government that they're not playing around.
- inejge 1y ago> The $50 million punishment feels so insubstantial It's potentially quite a bit more. TFA mentions another two penalties: "three times the total benefits that have been obtained and are reasonably attributable" (~2.5 million customers times $40+ for the difference in subscrptions times three is $300 million), or "30 per cent of the corporation’s adjusted turnover during the breach turnover period" if the preceding can't be reasonably calculated (I'm not going to dig through Microsoft's financial statements, but it's probably substantial.) The greatest of three is taken. If you still think it's pocket change, the point of fines is not to bankrupt the company, but to lead them to less shitty behavior by disincentivizing the alternative. It takes a persistent effort and time.
- iptq 1y agoah shoot wait i just realized "take the greatest" goes in the other direction. doh
- stevenkkim 1y agoThis happened to me in the U.S. too. Family plan went from $99/yr to $129/yr. I was going to just going to resentfully accept this, when I just got annoyed and said, "you know what? we don't use word and excel enough to justify this and there are definitely alternatives." Only when I went to cancel did I find out that they tried to force me onto the $129 "with AI" plan (who actually thinks AI features are worth anything? I've never used them in office or really any MS product) and that the "without AI" plan is still $99. I decided to cancel anyway because I was still resentful. Thing is, either $99 or $129 for the Family plan is actually quite reasonable, our family has 5 users. I just don't like giving money to deceitful or disrespectful companies. If Microsoft had just kept the pricing the same as they had for many years, I almost certainly would have re-subscribed.
- giancarlostoro 1y agoThe worst part is it literally costs them the same to tack on AI they are just hiking the price in order to generate more revenue. Running Word locally does not cost them more.
- kenjackson 1y agoActually I doubt that's true. There is a cost to running AI in the cloud (I assume its not run locally).
- stevenkkim 1y agoYeah, I'm pretty sure it's in the cloud and not local. Still useless to me. I use AI all the time when coding (very useful) and ChatGPT in general is also very useful. Never found Windows co-pilot or Office co-pilot useful for anything.
- giancarlostoro 1y agoMy argument is that running the Windows software on the end users machine does not cost them any additional compute. The AI does, they could “eat the cost” easily. Now they are having people cancel their plans.
- matheusmoreira 1y agoSo... How's Libre Office these days?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- mallets 1y agoHave the family plan prepaid for 2 years, mostly for the 1TB OneDrive. The new plans are almost double the cost here, hope this AI bundling dies a painful death by then. Though that doesn't guarantee price cuts I guess.
- chasd00 1y agoSo Microsoft can change the terms of a contract between you and it without your approval? That's ...odd.
- zahlman 1y agoDid anyone else look at the submission headline and think that was an oddly specific number of subscriptions?
- nobodyandproud 1y agoI cancelled my subscription once they snuck in copilot and jacked up the subscription fee. I refuse to play their opt out game.
- nobodyandproud 1y agoI cancelled my family subscription on renewal day, once they snuck in copilot and jacked up the subscription fee. We rarely use their services beyond email and storage so Microsoft was making free money; and for my family it was a nice to have Office on hand. But I refuse to play their opt-out game.
- toomuchtodo 1y agohttps://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/accc-v-microsoft-concise-statement-27-october-2025.pdf https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/accc-v-microsoft-concis...