7 ms·

Diphtheria, a once vanquished killer of children, is resurgent

61 points by Peacefulz 1y ago

Peacefulz 1y ago
https://archive.is/Rizj0 https://archive.is/Rizj0
arjie 1y ago
Story is about Africa, primarily Somalia. I imagine vaccine hesitancy must be rising in the US as well, but this is about Africa. Interestingly, our paediatrician in the US gave us a long lecture about why vaccines are important and this and that. He's an older gentleman and wouldn't brook any of my interruptions that I've been through this and to please proceed with the vaccination schedule and that I've had measles[0] when I was a young child and have no intention of subjecting my children to it. Presumably his insistence on the subject was because of hesitancy. In the end, we got the usual ones but didn't give our daughter the COVID vaccine. I can't say it's a super principled position, except that I think I do want to minimize the number of vaccinations she gets to the ones that are the highest risk for her. That's the usual meningococcal, hepatitis for a neonate; the Tdap for an infant, and the subsequent measles et al. for older children. I think I'm content to leave the tail risk items in the tail. 0: I was eight months old, my parents were the only doctors in the rural Indian village, and consequently a local brought their very sick child to our home. The child was in the room for just a few moments before my mother rushed me to the other room. As it so happened it was too late for me. I became quite sick as well.
- david-gpu 1y ago
  > our paediatrician in the US gave us a long lecture about why vaccines are important and this and that. He's an older gentleman and wouldn't brook any of my interruptions that I've been through this and to please proceed with the vaccination schedule [...] > Presumably his insistence on the subject was because of hesitancy. > In the end, we got the usual ones but didn't give our daughter the COVID vaccine Perhaps the doctor deserves some slack.
  - genuineresponse 1y ago
    "I'm not like those vaccine hesitant people, I just hesitated about a vaccine!"
  - arjie 1y ago
    Haha you guys are funny. We went along with every one that he recommended. Just a straightforward Yes To All. The COVID vaccine wasn't on the list. No manual opt-out. There's a manual opt-in but I'm fine with things as they stand. I should have known better than to mention that. For obvious reasons this one virus is a bit of a politicized subject and activates the outrage machine. I've got no problem with our paediatrician. Rather like him, if I'm being honest. Wouldn't be going back for every subsequent appointment if I did have a problem. The "long lecture" bit is more affectionate than complaining.
    - uecker 1y ago
      COVID vaccination for healthy children is not necessary because the benefit is small compared to the risk (but still considered positive and vaccination is recommended when there are certain risk factors). It is indeed unfortunate that this discussion is politicized.
  - Auracle 1y ago
    Considering many (most?) countries such as the UK, Germany, Australia, Spain, etc. don’t vaccinate healthy children for COVID because there’s basically no reason to, which presumably the doctor knows, he probably wasn’t disappointed. Having a blanket policy of vaccinating healthy children against COVID, especially now, was a terrible ideologically-driven idea that almost certainly drove more people to be antivaxers.
- genuineresponse 1y ago
  Covid is a serious illness. It can cause a wide range of effects from death, to myocarditis, to immune system resets, to long covid, to permanent scarring on the lungs, mood disorders, embolisms, and permanently reduced mental capacity. Covid is not a tail risk. Additionally, by not getting a vaccine, you potentially put people at risk who cannot get a vaccine -- immunocompromised folks, etc. Vaccinating your child also protects everyone in their communities. Choosing not to vaccinate because you want to limit the number for no expressed reason is vaccine hesitancy. You have expressed a position of vaccine hesitancy here.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - kgasser92 1y ago
    [dead]
  - sedivy94 1y ago
    Everything you listed are tail risks of COVID, even in individuals with comorbidities, and are far more characteristic of the early strains than what’s circulating today. The only exception in your list of side effects is myocarditis, which is also a side effect of the COVID vaccine. Furthermore, the vaccine’s target population is individuals over 65 years old, immunocompromised individuals, obese individuals… not newborns or infants. Alarmism, militant shaming, and omission of details like the ones I mentioned above are three strategies that steer vaccine hesitant people away from taking vaccine advocates seriously. Personally, I would raise concerns about anything but COVID and ease up on the Newspeak.
    - eqvinox 1y ago
      Except long term effects from COVID are not fully understood yet, especially in children. Feels like unnecessary gambling to me.
      - krona 1y ago
        > Except long term effects from COVID are not fully understood yet, especially in children. Most European countries don't offer vaccines for under 18's unless there's a very specific reason. Some don't offer the vaccine for general public except for vulnerable groups. Why? All medical interventions carry a risk and there is always a threshold where that risk outweighs any potential benefit. This is what sensible public health policy looks like.
- rich_sasha 1y ago
  > I imagine vaccine hesitancy must be rising in the US as well, but this is about Africa. You strike an interesting point. From a scientific PoV, vaccine rejection in the West is pretty much unjustifiable according to mainstream medicine. But the not-worst-case, fairly bad outcome is kinda manageable. Your child gets measles, is probably OK, but if not, goes to an expensive hospital and will probably be fine. Even without vaccinations, it's probably not a life or death scenario. I'm not saying it's good, only that the price tag is likely low. But of course it's completely different in poorer countries, many places in Africa among them. These are also places with poorer education on average, I'd imagine. And what do they think when the West is sending them (or they're buying out or scarce resources) stuff that we refuse because it's "dangerous"? And if you get a measles outbreak in Somalia, you won't be worrying about childcare and copayment, it will literally be life and death. People who peddle anti vaccine BS should think about this too.
  - gspr 1y ago
    > From a scientific PoV, vaccine rejection in the West is pretty much unjustifiable according to mainstream medicine. But the not-worst-case, fairly bad outcome is kinda manageable. Your child gets measles, is probably OK, but if not, goes to an expensive hospital and will probably be fine. Even without vaccinations, it's probably not a life or death scenario. I'm not saying it's good, only that the price tag is likely low. What an incredibly selfish point of view. Both for ignoring the risks of measles in your own child, and more importantly, for completely leaving out of the equation the likelihood that they will spread it to someone who for medical reasons cannot be vaccinated or for whom the virus is even more dangerous.
    - rich_sasha 1y ago
      Have you actually read my post? Or just the first 130 characters - and even then, maybe you missed the bit about > From a scientific PoV, vaccine rejection in the West is pretty much unjustifiable according to mainstream medicine. The post is against anti-vax.
      - 1y ago
- novemp 1y ago
  > I do want to minimize the number of vaccinations she gets Imagine saying this about anything else that's good for children. I want to minimize the amount of food she eats. I want to minimize the number of friends she has. Insane mindset, tbh.
  - simianparrot 1y ago
    Repeat after me: Any medical intervention has a cost/benefit analysis.
    - novemp 1y ago
      So what's the downside of the covid vaccine? A little arm pain for a day or so?
      - beeflet 1y ago
        There is no downside to taking any vaccine. I've taken 4 different covid vaccines alongside all their associated boosters when they were available for free. For anyone that isn't afraid of needles and a little arm pain, it's worth it for the peace of mind alone.
        ifyoubuildit 1y ago
        > There is no downside to taking any vaccine. This is just wrong. Go figure out which vaccines you haven't had, and then figure out why they haven't been prescribed to you. (Hint: It's not because your doctors are anti-vax)
        croon 1y ago
        While you are technically correct, my charitable interpretation of GP is "There is no downside (not grossly outweighed by the upside) to taking any vaccine (against an illness you are likely to come in contact with)". It's hard to exhaustively list all qualifiers to statements in short form communication.
- hinkley 1y ago
  The US is however somewhat vulnerable. It's true this isn't the flood, but it's the sound of distant thunder and the sighting of a wall of black clouds on the horizon. Better walk the dog and call the spouse and kids back from the playground.
fithisux 1y ago
[flagged]
- adaml_623 1y ago
  It looks like you've been downvoted but no one has replied to tell you that your comment seems to be very under-informed about diseases and vaccines. I suggest you google Tetanus for a start
  - ErroneousBosh 1y ago
    It's a shame they've been downvoted, because I'd be really interested to see where they're going with that train of thought. Mostly out of morbid curiosity.
    - fithisux 1y ago
      I made my claim very clear. Vaccines may help but not if there is income inequality, war, exploitation, human trafficking, crime and enmity. If our problems are not solved, vaccines can be seen as idols, like in ancient times. They "may" help for unknown reasons. Did they saved lives in the war in Ukraine or the massacre in Ghaza? I do not expect answers.
      - ErroneousBosh 1y ago
        Okay, but you're conflating two different things. War and inequality is abolished, as of 1630 today, three minutes time. Do people magically stop dying of preventable disease?
        fithisux 11mo ago
        Immediately no, but I expect rapid decline in this kind of deaths.
  - fithisux 1y ago
    I also suggest you Google about bullets. No known vaccine at this time.
Havoc 1y ago
Ngl was expecting this to be about the US
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  RFKJR could make it happen yet!
  - perihelions 1y ago
    RFK Jr. directly contributed to this outbreak! > "Somalia is the first country to apply to Gavi for new funding to give children diphtheria boosters — shots delivered to children in their second year of life, then between 4 and 7 years old and 9 to 15 years old — in areas where the outbreak has seemed most severe." RFK Jr. was personally responsible for ending US' involvement in Gavi, due to his insane view that the diphtheria vaccine is unsafe: https://www.statnews.com/2025/07/02/rfk-jr-vaccines-former-cdc-director-tom-frieden-says-kennedy-mangled-science-in-gavi-decision/ https://www.statnews.com/2025/07/02/rfk-jr-vaccines-former-c... ("RFK Jr.’s intellectually dishonest excuse for defunding Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance" / "The diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis shot study he cites is fatally flawed")
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

61 points by Peacefulz 1y ago

https://archive.is/Rizj0 https://archive.is/Rizj0

Story is about Africa, primarily Somalia. I imagine vaccine hesitancy must be rising in the US as well, but this is about Africa. Interestingly, our paediatrician in the US gave us a long lecture about why vaccines are important and this and that. He's an older gentleman and wouldn't brook any of my interruptions that I've been through this and to please proceed with the vaccination schedule and that I've had measles[0] when I was a young child and have no intention of subjecting my children to it. Presumably his insistence on the subject was because of hesitancy. In the end, we got the usual ones but didn't give our daughter the COVID vaccine. I can't say it's a super principled position, except that I think I do want to minimize the number of vaccinations she gets to the ones that are the highest risk for her. That's the usual meningococcal, hepatitis for a neonate; the Tdap for an infant, and the subsequent measles et al. for older children. I think I'm content to leave the tail risk items in the tail. 0: I was eight months old, my parents were the only doctors in the rural Indian village, and consequently a local brought their very sick child to our home. The child was in the room for just a few moments before my mother rushed me to the other room. As it so happened it was too late for me. I became quite sick as well.

david-gpu 1y ago
> our paediatrician in the US gave us a long lecture about why vaccines are important and this and that. He's an older gentleman and wouldn't brook any of my interruptions that I've been through this and to please proceed with the vaccination schedule [...] > Presumably his insistence on the subject was because of hesitancy. > In the end, we got the usual ones but didn't give our daughter the COVID vaccine Perhaps the doctor deserves some slack.
- genuineresponse 1y ago
  "I'm not like those vaccine hesitant people, I just hesitated about a vaccine!"
- arjie 1y ago
  Haha you guys are funny. We went along with every one that he recommended. Just a straightforward Yes To All. The COVID vaccine wasn't on the list. No manual opt-out. There's a manual opt-in but I'm fine with things as they stand. I should have known better than to mention that. For obvious reasons this one virus is a bit of a politicized subject and activates the outrage machine. I've got no problem with our paediatrician. Rather like him, if I'm being honest. Wouldn't be going back for every subsequent appointment if I did have a problem. The "long lecture" bit is more affectionate than complaining.
  - uecker 1y ago
    COVID vaccination for healthy children is not necessary because the benefit is small compared to the risk (but still considered positive and vaccination is recommended when there are certain risk factors). It is indeed unfortunate that this discussion is politicized.
- Auracle 1y ago
  Considering many (most?) countries such as the UK, Germany, Australia, Spain, etc. don’t vaccinate healthy children for COVID because there’s basically no reason to, which presumably the doctor knows, he probably wasn’t disappointed. Having a blanket policy of vaccinating healthy children against COVID, especially now, was a terrible ideologically-driven idea that almost certainly drove more people to be antivaxers.
genuineresponse 1y ago
Covid is a serious illness. It can cause a wide range of effects from death, to myocarditis, to immune system resets, to long covid, to permanent scarring on the lungs, mood disorders, embolisms, and permanently reduced mental capacity. Covid is not a tail risk. Additionally, by not getting a vaccine, you potentially put people at risk who cannot get a vaccine -- immunocompromised folks, etc. Vaccinating your child also protects everyone in their communities. Choosing not to vaccinate because you want to limit the number for no expressed reason is vaccine hesitancy. You have expressed a position of vaccine hesitancy here.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- kgasser92 1y ago
  [dead]
- sedivy94 1y ago
  Everything you listed are tail risks of COVID, even in individuals with comorbidities, and are far more characteristic of the early strains than what’s circulating today. The only exception in your list of side effects is myocarditis, which is also a side effect of the COVID vaccine. Furthermore, the vaccine’s target population is individuals over 65 years old, immunocompromised individuals, obese individuals… not newborns or infants. Alarmism, militant shaming, and omission of details like the ones I mentioned above are three strategies that steer vaccine hesitant people away from taking vaccine advocates seriously. Personally, I would raise concerns about anything but COVID and ease up on the Newspeak.
  - eqvinox 1y ago
    Except long term effects from COVID are not fully understood yet, especially in children. Feels like unnecessary gambling to me.
    - krona 1y ago
      > Except long term effects from COVID are not fully understood yet, especially in children. Most European countries don't offer vaccines for under 18's unless there's a very specific reason. Some don't offer the vaccine for general public except for vulnerable groups. Why? All medical interventions carry a risk and there is always a threshold where that risk outweighs any potential benefit. This is what sensible public health policy looks like.
rich_sasha 1y ago
> I imagine vaccine hesitancy must be rising in the US as well, but this is about Africa. You strike an interesting point. From a scientific PoV, vaccine rejection in the West is pretty much unjustifiable according to mainstream medicine. But the not-worst-case, fairly bad outcome is kinda manageable. Your child gets measles, is probably OK, but if not, goes to an expensive hospital and will probably be fine. Even without vaccinations, it's probably not a life or death scenario. I'm not saying it's good, only that the price tag is likely low. But of course it's completely different in poorer countries, many places in Africa among them. These are also places with poorer education on average, I'd imagine. And what do they think when the West is sending them (or they're buying out or scarce resources) stuff that we refuse because it's "dangerous"? And if you get a measles outbreak in Somalia, you won't be worrying about childcare and copayment, it will literally be life and death. People who peddle anti vaccine BS should think about this too.
- gspr 1y ago
  > From a scientific PoV, vaccine rejection in the West is pretty much unjustifiable according to mainstream medicine. But the not-worst-case, fairly bad outcome is kinda manageable. Your child gets measles, is probably OK, but if not, goes to an expensive hospital and will probably be fine. Even without vaccinations, it's probably not a life or death scenario. I'm not saying it's good, only that the price tag is likely low. What an incredibly selfish point of view. Both for ignoring the risks of measles in your own child, and more importantly, for completely leaving out of the equation the likelihood that they will spread it to someone who for medical reasons cannot be vaccinated or for whom the virus is even more dangerous.
  - rich_sasha 1y ago
    Have you actually read my post? Or just the first 130 characters - and even then, maybe you missed the bit about > From a scientific PoV, vaccine rejection in the West is pretty much unjustifiable according to mainstream medicine. The post is against anti-vax.
    - 1y ago
novemp 1y ago
> I do want to minimize the number of vaccinations she gets Imagine saying this about anything else that's good for children. I want to minimize the amount of food she eats. I want to minimize the number of friends she has. Insane mindset, tbh.
- simianparrot 1y ago
  Repeat after me: Any medical intervention has a cost/benefit analysis.
  - novemp 1y ago
    So what's the downside of the covid vaccine? A little arm pain for a day or so?
    - beeflet 1y ago
      There is no downside to taking any vaccine. I've taken 4 different covid vaccines alongside all their associated boosters when they were available for free. For anyone that isn't afraid of needles and a little arm pain, it's worth it for the peace of mind alone.
      - ifyoubuildit 1y ago
        > There is no downside to taking any vaccine. This is just wrong. Go figure out which vaccines you haven't had, and then figure out why they haven't been prescribed to you. (Hint: It's not because your doctors are anti-vax)
        croon 1y ago
        While you are technically correct, my charitable interpretation of GP is "There is no downside (not grossly outweighed by the upside) to taking any vaccine (against an illness you are likely to come in contact with)". It's hard to exhaustively list all qualifiers to statements in short form communication.
hinkley 1y ago
The US is however somewhat vulnerable. It's true this isn't the flood, but it's the sound of distant thunder and the sighting of a wall of black clouds on the horizon. Better walk the dog and call the spouse and kids back from the playground.

fithisux 1y ago

[flagged]

adaml_623 1y ago
It looks like you've been downvoted but no one has replied to tell you that your comment seems to be very under-informed about diseases and vaccines. I suggest you google Tetanus for a start
- ErroneousBosh 1y ago
  It's a shame they've been downvoted, because I'd be really interested to see where they're going with that train of thought. Mostly out of morbid curiosity.
  - fithisux 1y ago
    I made my claim very clear. Vaccines may help but not if there is income inequality, war, exploitation, human trafficking, crime and enmity. If our problems are not solved, vaccines can be seen as idols, like in ancient times. They "may" help for unknown reasons. Did they saved lives in the war in Ukraine or the massacre in Ghaza? I do not expect answers.
    - ErroneousBosh 1y ago
      Okay, but you're conflating two different things. War and inequality is abolished, as of 1630 today, three minutes time. Do people magically stop dying of preventable disease?
      - fithisux 11mo ago
        Immediately no, but I expect rapid decline in this kind of deaths.
- fithisux 1y ago
  I also suggest you Google about bullets. No known vaccine at this time.

Havoc 1y ago

Ngl was expecting this to be about the US

actionfromafar 1y ago
RFKJR could make it happen yet!
- perihelions 1y ago
  RFK Jr. directly contributed to this outbreak! > "Somalia is the first country to apply to Gavi for new funding to give children diphtheria boosters — shots delivered to children in their second year of life, then between 4 and 7 years old and 9 to 15 years old — in areas where the outbreak has seemed most severe." RFK Jr. was personally responsible for ending US' involvement in Gavi, due to his insane view that the diphtheria vaccine is unsafe: https://www.statnews.com/2025/07/02/rfk-jr-vaccines-former-cdc-director-tom-frieden-says-kennedy-mangled-science-in-gavi-decision/ https://www.statnews.com/2025/07/02/rfk-jr-vaccines-former-c... ("RFK Jr.’s intellectually dishonest excuse for defunding Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance" / "The diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis shot study he cites is fatally flawed")
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]