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I hope it's on the way, but I don't think the Pioneer Na is yet a sign of this revolution. This detailed review didn't leave me in a hurry to go get one, anyway
by hoistbypetard 1y ago
I hope it's on the way, but I don't think the Pioneer Na is yet a sign of this revolution. This detailed review didn't leave me in a hurry to go get one, anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoZ_g_MShTw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoZ_g_MShTw
- cyberax 1y agoThe idea is not that Na-Ion batteries are better than LFPs, they are not. The main goal is to make them dirt cheap. It seems that $15 per kWh of storage should be achievable with them. At this price, it's trivial to install enough grid-scale storage to completely move off fossil fuels in more southern areas.
- marsven_422 1y ago[dead]
- measurablefunc 1y ago[flagged]
- cyberax 1y ago> California batteries are constantly going up in flames. What is the fraction of California batteries that went up in flames during the last year?
- measurablefunc 1y ago[flagged]
- cyberax 1y agoYeah, yeah. Care to provide a list of burned batteries?
- measurablefunc 1y ago[flagged]
- jrflowers 1y ago> I don't really do research for random internet strangers They weren’t asking you to do research for them, they asked if you had done research for yourself.
- measurablefunc 1y agoI have all the data I need so let me know when you gather the relevant lifecycle & toxicity stats on your end.
- jrflowers 1y agoYou already admitted that you would have to do research to back up your claim. Like if you had the data you wouldn’t need to “do research” to post it.
- measurablefunc 1y agoI said I don't do free work for strangers on the internet but like I said, let me know when you do your own research. It will be a much better use of time than wasting more keystrokes in this thread.
- jrflowers 1y agoExactly, you would have to do research to answer the question. You haven’t done it for yourself, so why should you do it for a stranger?
- measurablefunc 1y agoWhich question would that be? The one about lifecycle & toxicity or percentage that goes up in flames every few months?
- ajuc 1y agoconstantly = once
- measurablefunc 1y agoThere will be another one in less than 6 months¹. How much are you willing to bet? ¹https://newenergyrisk.com/battery-fires/ https://newenergyrisk.com/battery-fires/
- jrflowers 1y agoI like that you made a post complaining about people not sourcing their claims and then eight minutes later made a post declining to source your particular claim
- measurablefunc 1y agoLink is right there. You're welcome to recover whatever stats are interesting to you instead of asking strangers to do free work.
- jrflowers 1y agoThe information requested does not exist in the link you posted.
- measurablefunc 1y agoThat's odd. I wonder why they wouldn't provide that information.
- Dylan16807 1y agoYou can just admit you exaggerated a lot.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- measurablefunc 1y agoAnd you can admit you are uncritically supporting technology w/o understanding its safety & toxicity b/c it seems "cheap".
- jrflowers 1y agohttps://knowyourmeme.com/memes/source-i-made-it-up https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/source-i-made-it-up
- ZenoArrow 1y agoSodium ion batteries are typically safer than lithium ion batteries. They operate safely over a wider range of temperatures, and have reduced risk of self-combustion.
- measurablefunc 1y agoMost boosters never provide lifecycle & toxicity statistics b/c it tends to run counter to their utopian narratives. What is the typical lifecycle & toxicity profile for these batteries?
- lelandbatey 1y agoMost contrarians fail to compare their detractions against alternatives such as "maintaining the status quo". Maybe batteries with hazardous chemicals in solid state form inside solid housings aren't particularly net-negative by comparison to most existing casual energy storage alternatives such as internal combustion, at least to most laypeople?
- lambdaone 1y agoThey also produce much less harmful combustion products when they do catch fire.
- madaxe_again 1y agoThose are lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide batteries in your example, not sodium. I’m not sure what your point is? All batteries are bad? Oil is good? What?
- Lutger 1y agoYou make a claim without a source and refuse to back it up when asked, yet you are doubling down on your confidence in the initial statement. There's an interesting discussion to be had, but this is not it. There are several factors to be considered: the actual risk of older and newer systems, the impact, how to mitigate a fire and avoid the worst consequences, and weighing against the alternatives. Especially the latter is somehow always absent in denialist narratives. However, when the alternative is basically heating the planet into a dystopian hellscape, we may accept some negatives of any kind of technology that doesn't put our whole existence at risk. We need to be real about the downsides yes, but let's also be real and accept we don't have any choice but push forward. Here is my 1 minute AI powered 'research' btw: "The fire risk for battery plant storage is not a single, universally agreed-upon percentage, but available data suggests a low and decreasing risk, especially for properly maintained and installed systems. For example, one study found the 2023 risk for home battery systems to be \(0.0049\%\), while another source reports a \(97\%\) drop in large-scale system failures between 2018 and 2023. The risk is influenced by factors like manufacturing quality, installation, and maintenance." Doesn't seem all that alarming yet.
- measurablefunc 1y agoThose facts seem hallucinated so you should follow your own advice & post the actual sources.
- dzhiurgis 1y agoThey are better in cold and have higher charge rates. Eventually (10-20years) they’ll be cheaper than LFP. All while 15% lower volumetric density.
- mycall 1y agoNa-Ion batteries are better than LFPs when considered the temperature range between 0C and 0f. In this [0] review, prof hobo demonstrates this is the only reason to by Na-Ion (right now). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoZ_g_MShTw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoZ_g_MShTw
- bmicraft 1y agoYour mixing of units is baffling, almost nobody knows both Celsius and Fahrenheit. For the rest of us: -18°C to 0°C 0°F to 32°F
- NekkoDroid 1y agoI knew what 0°C is in °F since I know the °C to °F conversion rate, but my European self isn't able to assign any actual reference to that, which made it kinda useless to me :)
- tonyedgecombe 1y agoThe $15/kWh is misleading as it's only the cost of the raw materials.
- justlikereddit 1y agoThe article claims CATL have given bulk cell pricing at 19$/kWh. That still leaves an Additional overhead due to power electronics and assembly but all in all it's a pretty impressive development.
- jxf 1y agoThe idea with really cheap batteries is that they don't need good energy density. You just swap them every so often and put the one you aren't using in the charging rack. You could even carry your own reserve energy with you!
- TrainedMonkey 1y agoWe used to have swappable batteries in virtually all of portable electronics. You could even get them in a rechargeable accumulator format. Virtually all of portable electronics has integrated batteries.
- Gigachad 1y agoYeah but AAs suck, and the newer more advanced batteries all have different voltages and require different charge circuitries so it’s hard to create a new standard for them.
- ivell 1y agoIt is always the case that custom configurations have advantages over other configurations. But standards give a good trade off between performance vs having a large ecosystem. Integrated batteries just add to the e-waste problem.
- aziaziazi 1y agoWhy do you think AA suck ? It’s the chemistry, not the standard size, voltage or swappability right? 18650 and 21700 also have those assets. Some modern devices let you swap 18650.
- MaulingMonkey 1y agoMy understanding is that it's a poor form factor for lithium ion - which operates at higher voltages, and thus needs an extra voltage regulator to step them down to 1.5V if you're packing them into the AA format (adding cost, reducing capacity, & introducing conversion losses.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKYF1CXZPng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKYF1CXZPng
- llm_nerd 1y agoActually came across this video independently a couple of days ago, and having never come across this gentleman before it was enough to convince me that his analysis is of negligible value of the "beg the conclusion" variety. To wit, in his review he- -dismisses environmental concerns with Li -dismisses safety concerns with Li -dismissed geopolitical concerns with Li availability. Something something "environmentalists!" (shakes fist at clouds) like with the environmental concerns. -dismisses economic advances of Na And then the overwhelming focus of his review is that if you deep freeze the battery, it charges slowly. This becomes the foundation of his criticism. Only firstly it's a self solving issue -- the battery warms as it charges -- but in most situations the battery will be in a heated (or will be self-heating) scenario and at an ideal temperature. I'm no Na booster, and it seems like an incremental improvement in various dimensions for certain scenarios, but that video adds extraordinarily little value to the space.
- hoistbypetard 1y agoI disagree with your conclusion about the video even as I think Na is an incremental improvement. I think the video hits solidly on why the Bluetti Na Pro product is not yet a good overall product. I still think it's promising (and I think the reviewer does too). I can see why you think he's dismissing environmental/safety/geopolitical concerns. But I don't think so; I think he's simply taking the perspective of what's the best product for someone who needs to live with this as a primary power pack that they use. Obviously, someone could weigh the concerns that you mention higher than the functionality of the power pack. But reviewing it in the context of performance doesn't equate to a dismissal of those, IMO.