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What about PoE for 10G Ethernet? I see that there are some vendors (e.g. Ubiquity) that are offering devices with it, but I don't see it in the standards?

VanTheBrand 1y ago
As of 802.3bt (PoE++) the standard includes support for “all standardized copper link speeds of up to 10GBASE-T.” The previous standard 802.3at (PoE+) added gigabit support. So any 10GbE (and 2.5GbE) PoE/PoE+ devices out there are technically not to spec (lots of these on Ali Express) but I believe the the Ubiquiti 10GbE stuff is all at least PoE++. [1] (They do have their own non spec labeled PoE+++ products though, which are really just “802.3bt Type 4” but they added another plus because that probably sounded better.) [2] [1] https://store.ui.com/us/en/products/us-xg-6poe https://store.ui.com/us/en/products/us-xg-6poe, https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/accessories-poe-power/collections/pro-store-poe-and-power-adapters/products/uacc-poe-plus-plus-10g https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/accessories-poe-power/co... [2] https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/accessories-poe-power/collections/pro-store-poe-and-power-adapters/products/uacc-poe-10g?variant=uacc-poeplusplusplus-10g https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/accessories-poe-power/co... , https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000263008-PoE-Availability-and-Modes https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000263008-PoE-Avail...
zamadatix 1y ago
I think every major vendor has had 10G PoE switches: Arista, Aruba/HPE/Juniper, Cisco, Extreme, and Fortinet for sure. The problem is there is little use case for 10G + PoE in the enterprise and even less for consumers. Ubiquity likes to tout it for the 10G APs... but, realistically, most are worried about airtime with APs, not 10G wired throughput from a single one when they have a thousand. As a result, it tends to be relegated to the "high end switch which has every feature those one-off customers demand but costs an arm and a leg as a result" model/family. E.g. the only ones I ever sold were to a hospital that wanted to have select switches have 10G for radiology workstations but also wanted to still be able to plug 1G APs in without having to think about the port types. Radiology was covering the cost, so they didn't care it was a waste of money.
- VanTheBrand 1y ago
  I find it useful in Broadcast Video Production (that’s where I end up using it most) and yeah with Wifi7 supporting > gigabit speeds I’ve seen some Wireless Access Points supporting it (though 2.5GbE Poe++ is more common there and practically speaking enough)
zer00eyz 1y ago
My question is this: what would you plug into POE that would need 10gbe?
- wmf 1y ago
  A multi-radio WiFi 8 AP?
  - zer00eyz 1y ago
    You would likely need fiber to saturate it...
- mrheosuper 1y ago
  an all nand-flash NAS ?
- fc417fc802 1y ago
  What if you need a small switch somewhere due to the runs otherwise being too long?
- MBCook 1y ago
  I had no idea it could supply 90 watts or so. At that point you could power some pretty powerful terminals. The new 14” MacBook Pro comes with a 70 watt charger. An M4 Air only gets a 35 watt adapter. Basically seems like enough power is available to run something pretty powerful.
  - zamadatix 1y ago
    It's really ~71 watts on the device end (not counting any inefficiencies in the device itself). Still plenty powerful to do a lot with, but also more limiting. Especially if you don't already plan on having a built in battery to handle bursty workloads for whatever reason the device needed a 10G port for.
    - sodaclean 1y ago
      With most day to day things being some form of streaming it really hides how painfully slow gigabit is. Additionally, it's not difficult to fit 10gigabit worth of data munging in a 10-15watt envelope. Pulling data off of modern professional cameras is an easy example. Realtek's latest NIC is 10/100/1000/2.5/5/10, has a <2w envelope and has offloading that works (unlike intel).
toast0 1y ago
Should work just as well as PoE for 1G ethernet. All four pairs are active data, but you should be able to add a DC bias between pairs and tap it off the transformer on the other side, just like 1G

VanTheBrand 1y ago

As of 802.3bt (PoE++) the standard includes support for “all standardized copper link speeds of up to 10GBASE-T.” The previous standard 802.3at (PoE+) added gigabit support. So any 10GbE (and 2.5GbE) PoE/PoE+ devices out there are technically not to spec (lots of these on Ali Express) but I believe the the Ubiquiti 10GbE stuff is all at least PoE++. [1] (They do have their own non spec labeled PoE+++ products though, which are really just “802.3bt Type 4” but they added another plus because that probably sounded better.) [2] [1] https://store.ui.com/us/en/products/us-xg-6poe https://store.ui.com/us/en/products/us-xg-6poe, https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/accessories-poe-power/collections/pro-store-poe-and-power-adapters/products/uacc-poe-plus-plus-10g https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/accessories-poe-power/co... [2] https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/accessories-poe-power/collections/pro-store-poe-and-power-adapters/products/uacc-poe-10g?variant=uacc-poeplusplusplus-10g https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/accessories-poe-power/co... , https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000263008-PoE-Availability-and-Modes https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000263008-PoE-Avail...

zamadatix 1y ago

I think every major vendor has had 10G PoE switches: Arista, Aruba/HPE/Juniper, Cisco, Extreme, and Fortinet for sure. The problem is there is little use case for 10G + PoE in the enterprise and even less for consumers. Ubiquity likes to tout it for the 10G APs... but, realistically, most are worried about airtime with APs, not 10G wired throughput from a single one when they have a thousand. As a result, it tends to be relegated to the "high end switch which has every feature those one-off customers demand but costs an arm and a leg as a result" model/family. E.g. the only ones I ever sold were to a hospital that wanted to have select switches have 10G for radiology workstations but also wanted to still be able to plug 1G APs in without having to think about the port types. Radiology was covering the cost, so they didn't care it was a waste of money.

VanTheBrand 1y ago
I find it useful in Broadcast Video Production (that’s where I end up using it most) and yeah with Wifi7 supporting > gigabit speeds I’ve seen some Wireless Access Points supporting it (though 2.5GbE Poe++ is more common there and practically speaking enough)

zer00eyz 1y ago

My question is this: what would you plug into POE that would need 10gbe?

wmf 1y ago
A multi-radio WiFi 8 AP?
- zer00eyz 1y ago
  You would likely need fiber to saturate it...
mrheosuper 1y ago
an all nand-flash NAS ?
fc417fc802 1y ago
What if you need a small switch somewhere due to the runs otherwise being too long?
MBCook 1y ago
I had no idea it could supply 90 watts or so. At that point you could power some pretty powerful terminals. The new 14” MacBook Pro comes with a 70 watt charger. An M4 Air only gets a 35 watt adapter. Basically seems like enough power is available to run something pretty powerful.
- zamadatix 1y ago
  It's really ~71 watts on the device end (not counting any inefficiencies in the device itself). Still plenty powerful to do a lot with, but also more limiting. Especially if you don't already plan on having a built in battery to handle bursty workloads for whatever reason the device needed a 10G port for.
  - sodaclean 1y ago
    With most day to day things being some form of streaming it really hides how painfully slow gigabit is. Additionally, it's not difficult to fit 10gigabit worth of data munging in a 10-15watt envelope. Pulling data off of modern professional cameras is an easy example. Realtek's latest NIC is 10/100/1000/2.5/5/10, has a <2w envelope and has offloading that works (unlike intel).

toast0 1y ago

Should work just as well as PoE for 1G ethernet. All four pairs are active data, but you should be able to add a DC bias between pairs and tap it off the transformer on the other side, just like 1G