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Just a couple of days ago in this HN thread [0] there were quite some users claiming Hetzner is not an options as their uptime isn't as good as AWS, hence the h
by littlecranky67 1y ago
Just a couple of days ago in this HN thread [0] there were quite some users claiming Hetzner is not an options as their uptime isn't as good as AWS, hence the higher AWS pricing is worth the investment. Oh, the irony.
[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45614922 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45614922
- bigblind 1y agoI don't have an opinion either way, but for now, this is just anecdotal evidence.
- brazukadev 1y agoLooks fine for pointing an irony
- bigblind 1y agoIn some ways yes. But in some ways this is like saying it's more likely to rain on your wedding day.
- DataDaemon 1y agoFinally IT managers will start understanding that cloud is no difference than Hetzner.
- aembleton 1y agoWhen things go wrong, you can point at a news article and say its not just us that have been affected.
- zimpenfish 1y agoI tried that but Slack is broken and the message hasn't got through yet...
- benterix 1y agoWell, we have a naming issue (Hetzner also has Hetzner Cloud, it looks people still equal cloud with the three biggest public cloud providers). In any case, in order for this to happen, someone would have to collect reliable data (not all big cloud providers like to publish precise data, usually they downlplay the outages and use weasel words like "some customers... in some regions... might have experienced" just not to admit they had an outage) and present stats comparing the availability of Heztner Cloud vs the big three.
- jpalomaki 1y agoWhen AWS is down, everybody knows it. People don’t really question your hosting choice. It’s the IBM of cloud era.
- antihero 1y agoAmazon is up, what are they doing?
- sisve 1y agoThat is 100% true. You cant be fired for picking AWS... But I doubt its the best choice for most people. Sad but true
- zejn 1y agoYou can't be fired, but you burn through your runway quicker. No matter which option you choose, there is some exothermic oxidative process involved.
- rafaelmn 1y agoAWS is smart enough to throw you a few mill credits to get you started.
- dijit 1y agoMILL?! I only got €100.000 bounded to a year, then a 20% discount for spend in the next year. (I say "only" because that certainly would be a sweeter pill, €100.000 in "free" credits is enough to make you get hooked, because you can really feel the free-ness in the moment).
- echoangle 1y agoMille is thousand in Latin so they might have meant a few thousand dollars.
- brazukadev 1y ago
- neverminder 1y agoYou can argue about Hetzner's uptime, but you can 't argue about Hetzner's pricing which is hands down the best there is. I'd rather go with Hetzner and cobble up together some failover than pay AWS extortion.
- Lio 1y agoFor the price of AWS you could run Hetzner, a second provider for resiliancy and still make a large saving. Your margin is my opportunity indeed.
- benterix 1y agoExactly. Hetzner is the equivalent of the original Raspberry Pi. It might not have all fancy features but it delivers and for the price that essentially unblocks you and allows you to do things you wouldn't be able to do otherwise.
- esskay 1y agoThey've been working pretty hard on those extra features. Their load balancing across locations is pretty decent for example.
- k4rli 1y agoI switched to netcup for even cheaper private vps for personal noncritical hosting. I'd heard of netcup being less reliable but so far 4 months+ uptime and no problems. Europe region. Hetzner has the better web interface and supposedly better uptime, but I've had no problems with either. Web interface not necessary at all either when using only ssh and paying directly.
- Aldipower 1y agoI am on Hetzner with a primary + backup server and on Netcup (Vienna) with a secondary. For DNS I am using ClouDNS. I think I am more distributed then most of the AWS folks and it still is way cheaper.
- grebc 1y agoI got a downvote already for pointing this out :’)
- brazukadev 1y agoUnfortunately, HN is full of company people, you can't talk anything against Google, Meta, Amazon, Microsoft without being downvoted to death.
- sph 1y agoAWS and Cloudflare are HN darlings. Go so far as to even suggest a random personal blog doesn't need Cloudflare and get downvoted with inane comments as "but what about DDOS protection?!" The truth is one under the age of 35 is able to configure a webserver any more, apparently. Especially now that static site generators are in vogue and you don't even need to worry about php-fpm.
- jijijijij 1y agoLol, realistically you only need to care about external DDoS protection, if you are at risk of AWS bankrupting your ass.
- gloosx 1y agoCan't fully agree. People genuinely detest Microsoft on HN and all over the globe. My Microsoft-related rants are always upvoted to the skies.
- netdevphoenix 1y ago> People genuinely detest Microsoft on HN and all over the globe I would say tech workers rather than "people" as they are the ones needing to interact with it the most
- ta1243 1y agoI'm a tech worker, and have been paid by a multi-billion dollar company to be a tech worker since 2003. Aside from Teams and Outlook Web, I really don't interact with Microsoft at all, haven't done since the days of XP. I'm sure there is integration on our corporate backends with things like active directory, but personally I don't have to deal with that. Teams is fine for person-person instant messaging and video calls. I find it terrible for most other functions, but fortunately I don't have to use it for anything other than instant messaging and video calls. The linux version of teams still works. I still hold out a healthy suspicion of them from their behaviour when I started in the industry. I find it amusing the Microsoft fanboys of the 2000s with their "only needs to work in IE6" and "Silverlight is the future" are still having to maintain obsolete machines to access their obsolete systems. Meanwhile the stuff I wrote to be platform-agnostic 20 years ago is still in daily use, still delivering business benefit, with the only update being a change from "<object" to "<video" on one internal system when flash retired.
- bert-ye 1y agoI work at a small / medium company with about ~20 dedicated servers and ~30 cloud servers at Hetzner. Outages have happened, but we were lucky that the few times it did happen, it was never a problem / actual downtime. One thing to note is that there are some scheduled maintenances were we needed to react.
- yard2010 1y agoI'm not affiliated and won't be compensated in any way for saying this: Hetzner are the best business partners ever. Their service is rock solid, their pricing is fair, their support is kind and helpful. Going forward I expect American companies to follow this European vibe, it's like the opposite of enshitification.
- otikik 1y ago> the opposite of enshitification. Why do you expect American companies to follow it then? >:)
- Ylpertnodi 1y agoHow do you expect American....
- krsdcbl 1y agoWe've been running our services on Hetzner for 10 years, never experienced any significant outages. That might be datacenter dependant of course, since our root servers and cloud services are all hosted in Europe, but I really never understood why Hetzner is said to be less reliable
- koliber 1y agoMy recommendation is to use AWS, but not the US-EAST-1 region. That way you get benefits of AWS without the instability.
- dijit 1y agoAWS has internal dependencies on US-EAST-1. Admittedly they're getting fewer and fewer, but they exist. The same is also true in GCP, so as much as I prefer GCP from a technical standpoint: the truth is, if you can't see it, it doesn't mean it goes away.
- master_crab 1y agoThe only hard dependency I am still aware of is write operations to the R53 control plane. Failover records and DNS queries would not be impacted. So business workflows would run as if nothing happened. (There may still be some core IAM dependencies in USE1, but I haven’t heard of any.)
- dijit 1y agoWe're currently witnessing the fact that what you're claiming is not as true as you imply.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- jamesbelchamber 1y agoWe don't know that (yet) - it's possible that this is simply a demonstration of how many companies have a hard dependency on us-east-1 for whatever reason (which I can certainly believe). We'll know when (if) some honest RCAs come out that pinpoint the issue.
- ta1243 1y agoI created a DNS record in route53 this morning with no issues the Billing part of the console in eu-west-2 was down though, presumably because that uses us-east-1 dynamodb, but route53 doesn't.
- YetAnotherNick 1y agoStop making things up. As someone who commented on the thread in favour of AWS, there is almost no mention of better uptime in any comment I could find. I could find one or two downvoted or heavily critisized comments, but I can find more people mentioning the opposite.
- jwr 1y agoAs a data point, I've been running stuff at Hetzner for 10 years now, in two datacenters (physical servers). There were brief network outages when they replaced networking equipment, and exactly ONE outage for hardware replacement, scheduled weeks in advance, with a 4-hour window and around 1-2h duration. It's just a single data point, but for me that's a pretty good record. It's not because Hetzner is miraculously better at infrastructure, it's because physical servers are way simpler than the extremely complex software and networking systems that AWS provides.
- jamesbelchamber 1y ago> physical servers are way simpler than the extremely complex software and networking systems that AWS provides. Or, rather, it's your fault when the complex software and networking systems you deployed on top of those physical servers go wrong (:
- jwr 1y agoYes. Which is why I try to keep my software from being overly complex, for example by not succumbing to the Kubernetes craze.
- brianwawok 1y agoI love my k8s. Spend 5 minutes per month over the past 8 years and get a very reliable infra
- cj 1y agoDo you work on k8s professionally outside of the project you’re talking about? 5 mins seems unrealistic unless you’re spending time somewhere else to keep up to speed with version releases, upgrades, etc.
- dangus 1y agoI think it sounds quite realistic especially if you’re using something like Talos Linux. I’m not using k8s personally but the moment I moved from traditional infrastructure (chef server + VMs) to containers (Portainer) my level of effort went down by like 10x.
- bradhe 1y agoHetzner users are like the Linux users for cloud.
- me551ah 1y agoI’m more curious to understand how we ended up creating a single point of failure across the whole internet.
- draw_down 1y ago[dead]
- ffsm8 1y agoHaha, yeah that's a nugget > 99.99% uptime infra significantly cheaper than the cloud. I guess that's another person that has never actually worked in the domain (SRE/admin) but still wants to talk with confidence on the topic. Why do I say that? Because 99.99% is frickin easy That's almost one full hour of complete downtime per year. It only gets hard in the 99.9999+ range ... And you rarely meet that range with cloud providers either as requests still fail for some reason, like random 503 when a container is decommissioned or similar
- kbrkbr 1y agoIt still can be true that the uptime is better, or am I overlooking something?
- aiiizzz 1y agoNah you're definitely correct.
- notepad0x90 1y agoI don't know how often Hetzner has similar outages, but outages at the rack and server level, including network outages and device failure happen for individual customers. If you've never experienced this, it is probably just survivor's bias. Aws/cloud has similar outages too, but more redundancy and automatic failover/migrations that are transparent to customers happen. You don't have to worry about DDOS and many other admin burdens either. YMMV, I'm just saying sometimes Aws makes sense, other times Hetzner does.
- lleu 1y agoBeen using OVH here with no complaints.
- nonethewiser 1y ago>Just a couple of days ago in this HN thread [0] there were quite some users claiming Hetzner is not an options as their uptime isn't as good as AWS, hence the higher AWS pricing is worth the investment. Oh, the irony. That's not necessarily ironic. Seems like you are suffering from recency bias.