4 ms·

They're cheap, easy to find and easy to prepare. With grocery prices going up, what little progress has been made might get reversed, unfortunately. Making Ame

by dfxm12 1y ago

They're cheap, easy to find and easy to prepare. With grocery prices going up, what little progress has been made might get reversed, unfortunately. Making America healthy again means making non-ultraprocessed groceries available to everyone & cheaper, and ensuring that working families have time to cook. Pressuring Coke to create a new product with sugar is not going to move the needle.

pchristensen 1y ago
Don't forget non-perishable. If you're already having a hard time affording groceries, it really hurts to throw away wilted veggies or moldy fruit.
- nradov 1y ago
  Canned and frozen vegetables are also non-perishable. While some extremely poor people lack a working freezer or storage space, most consumers can easily use these options.
  - kulahan 1y ago
    Absolutely nothing I've seen anywhere justifies the idea that access to food is the problem. In most cultures, you don't need cooking classes because the food is ingrained into their culture, and recipes are passed down. Americans have a much weaker link to their heritage. You might know a few dishes, but in my experience, absolutely nobody knows how to cook. By cook, I don't mean "can add one box of prepared goods to another box of prepared goods with a can of prepared goods on the side", I mean buying meat, veggies, fruit, and grains and cooking a dish from home, mostly from scratch. edit: 13 million Americans are in food deserts. If the problem were that small, it'd be similar in size to people who are addicted to substances other than alcohol. This is affecting almost everyone. There MUST be another, bigger solution.
    - hvb2 1y ago
      As Gordon Ramsay put it: "Most people don't cook, they heat their food"
    - t-writescode 1y ago
      Look up food deserts. Access is absolutely a problem.
      - kulahan 1y ago
        I know - the extreme majority of them are in rural areas where you'd have to drive a couple hours to get to a grocery store. My MIL lives in one. Guess how they get most food? All that super-cheap rural land.
        t-writescode 1y ago
        Are you suggesting that impoverished people with low income jobs and extreme hours should spend some of their missing time … farming?
        nradov 1y ago
        It's an observation, not a suggestion. That's literally how many low-income (not impoverished) people live in rural areas. They grow (and hunt) some food at home but not enough to be self-sufficient, and also have a regular job. Sometimes those jobs involve working long hours at peak times. This is a pretty normal lifestyle.
        kulahan 1y ago
        Yes. A garden is a healthy and productive way to spend your free time. If you have land, EVERYONE should be growing some food. What are you suggesting they do instead? Scroll tiktok? >and extreme hours This is not the problem in rural communities.
        t-writescode 1y ago
        The most famously true thing about rural areas is that they’re all exactly the same and the people in them experience identical struggles.
        1y ago
  - scotty79 1y ago
    I think canned food can already be considered ultra-processed if it contains any preservatives.
    - bahama_mama 1y ago
      Canned food such as canned tomatoes or canned pickles (if pickled with vinegar/salt/spices) is not considered ultra-processed food. It's considered processed food and can be considered as part of a healthy diet. Well, same could be said about UPF -- your health is unlikely to detoriate long term if you have 1 frozen meal per week. It's just quantity that matters and lack of moderation.
- delichon 1y ago
  If you're having a hard time affording groceries, failing to plan ahead and instead throwing away food is a luxury you can't afford. (A blender and an affection for green smoothies is a good solution.) But that's still cheaper than paying for the health problems downstream of ultraprocessed food. Unfortunately my source for both claims is personal experience. I'd like to have an app that estimates the cost of groceries, including the long term health effects of regular consumption, and interpreting early death as a cost rather than savings. For me I think ribeye would end up being cheaper than Doritos.
  - gruez 1y ago
    >I'd like to have an app that estimates the cost of groceries, including the long term health effects of regular consumption, and interpreting early death as a cost rather than savings. For me I think ribeye would end up being cheaper than Doritos. Someone who bothers to input everything they eat into an app (basically calorie counting) probably already has enough intuitive sense of what's "healthy" that they don't need an app that they should eat beef rather than doritos.
  - lotsofpulp 1y ago
    >But that's still cheaper than paying for the health problems downstream of ultraprocessed food. It is unrealistic to expect the vast majority of humans to prioritize the long term in every single decision they make, especially if they have a dim view of the long term. It is logical to want to enjoy life in the present, even if it will hurt in the long term, if you are being brought down by other aspects, such as stress about income volatility and belief in low probabilities of upward movement, etc.
  - t-writescode 1y ago
    Being poor is expensive. Just like $50 shoes that last 6 months and $200 shoes that last 10 years, when you’re poor, you often have to chose the less expensive, short-term option because the more expensive, far far better option is literally out of reach.
    - nradov 1y ago
- dfxm12 1y ago
  Perhaps this is a function of "easy to find". Food deserts are a problem with regards to a lot of families only having little access to fresh foods. When you have to drive 30 min to the IGA, maybe you overbuy compared driving the 5 min to shop at the dollar general. The consolidation of big supermarket chains contributes to the creation of food deserts.
smileysteve 1y ago
Now if Coke was pressured to add 1g of fiber to products, we could be talking.
Der_Einzige 1y ago
You can make America far more healthy by doing the following: 1. Mandating lower amounts of sugar, and significantly switching to zero calorie non glycemic sweeteners. 2. Removing plastic packaging and eliminating sources of microplastics and other endocrine disruption contamination of our food supply/ 3. Banning most of the stuff that the European food agencies ban 4. Getting GLP-1's in the hands of every overweight person in America. It's that easy, but "Make America Healthy Again" was made by a guy who had a worm eat his brain.
- kulahan 1y ago
  I couldn't possibly disagree with your last point harder. What's with people and blindly trusting that the pharma companies found a holy grail medicine and didn't rush it to market well before the necessary research is in? Even more than that, dosing hundreds of millions of Americans for life is one insanely expensive and ridiculous solution. Side note, is there good research on the effects of microplastics on the body? I'm holding out adding that to my plate of concerns until this is the case, and last I heard we were pretty in-the-dark on the topic.
  - colingauvin 1y ago
    If you're worried about the possible, unknown side effects of GLP1s, check out the inevitable, well-known side effects of being morbidly overweight.
    - jay_kyburz 1y ago
      You don't need to start with GLP1s. You can start with smaller portions. Folks need to learn how to eat, not another drug.
      - colingauvin 1y ago
        All available evidence suggests this does not work at population scale.
    - 1y ago
arrozconcosas 1y ago
Many times the ultra processed crap is more expensive. Don't forget "convenient to buy" in addition to "convenient to cook". For example, a cliff bar bought from a corner store could be $3, and is basically a candy bar. A company I like is called Farmer's Fridge, and they basically have vending machines in convenient places with fresh made healthy foods like salads.
- nebula8804 1y ago
  I love what Farmers Fridge is doing, I wish their prices were cheaper but Im glad that they exist and I hope they continue to grow.
asdff 1y ago
Imo it isn't an availability issue. Polling my friends who are not poor of course but very few of them actually cook. They have the means to, the time to, and they still don't because they don't know how to cook. Greatest generation was still cooking at home and they were far from wealthy especially at the end of their lives living on fixed income and still making meals for all the relatives. It is just like we have collectively forgotten how to cook. Not just cook but to make the sort of intermediary ingredients you use to make many other meals too.

by dfxm12 1y ago

pchristensen 1y ago

Don't forget non-perishable. If you're already having a hard time affording groceries, it really hurts to throw away wilted veggies or moldy fruit.

nradov 1y ago
Canned and frozen vegetables are also non-perishable. While some extremely poor people lack a working freezer or storage space, most consumers can easily use these options.
- kulahan 1y ago
  Absolutely nothing I've seen anywhere justifies the idea that access to food is the problem. In most cultures, you don't need cooking classes because the food is ingrained into their culture, and recipes are passed down. Americans have a much weaker link to their heritage. You might know a few dishes, but in my experience, absolutely nobody knows how to cook. By cook, I don't mean "can add one box of prepared goods to another box of prepared goods with a can of prepared goods on the side", I mean buying meat, veggies, fruit, and grains and cooking a dish from home, mostly from scratch. edit: 13 million Americans are in food deserts. If the problem were that small, it'd be similar in size to people who are addicted to substances other than alcohol. This is affecting almost everyone. There MUST be another, bigger solution.
  - hvb2 1y ago
    As Gordon Ramsay put it: "Most people don't cook, they heat their food"
  - t-writescode 1y ago
    Look up food deserts. Access is absolutely a problem.
    - kulahan 1y ago
      I know - the extreme majority of them are in rural areas where you'd have to drive a couple hours to get to a grocery store. My MIL lives in one. Guess how they get most food? All that super-cheap rural land.
      - t-writescode 1y ago
        Are you suggesting that impoverished people with low income jobs and extreme hours should spend some of their missing time … farming?
        nradov 1y ago
        It's an observation, not a suggestion. That's literally how many low-income (not impoverished) people live in rural areas. They grow (and hunt) some food at home but not enough to be self-sufficient, and also have a regular job. Sometimes those jobs involve working long hours at peak times. This is a pretty normal lifestyle.
        kulahan 1y ago
        Yes. A garden is a healthy and productive way to spend your free time. If you have land, EVERYONE should be growing some food. What are you suggesting they do instead? Scroll tiktok? >and extreme hours This is not the problem in rural communities.
        t-writescode 1y ago
        The most famously true thing about rural areas is that they’re all exactly the same and the people in them experience identical struggles.
        1y ago
- scotty79 1y ago
  I think canned food can already be considered ultra-processed if it contains any preservatives.
  - bahama_mama 1y ago
    Canned food such as canned tomatoes or canned pickles (if pickled with vinegar/salt/spices) is not considered ultra-processed food. It's considered processed food and can be considered as part of a healthy diet. Well, same could be said about UPF -- your health is unlikely to detoriate long term if you have 1 frozen meal per week. It's just quantity that matters and lack of moderation.
delichon 1y ago
If you're having a hard time affording groceries, failing to plan ahead and instead throwing away food is a luxury you can't afford. (A blender and an affection for green smoothies is a good solution.) But that's still cheaper than paying for the health problems downstream of ultraprocessed food. Unfortunately my source for both claims is personal experience. I'd like to have an app that estimates the cost of groceries, including the long term health effects of regular consumption, and interpreting early death as a cost rather than savings. For me I think ribeye would end up being cheaper than Doritos.
- gruez 1y ago
  >I'd like to have an app that estimates the cost of groceries, including the long term health effects of regular consumption, and interpreting early death as a cost rather than savings. For me I think ribeye would end up being cheaper than Doritos. Someone who bothers to input everything they eat into an app (basically calorie counting) probably already has enough intuitive sense of what's "healthy" that they don't need an app that they should eat beef rather than doritos.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  >But that's still cheaper than paying for the health problems downstream of ultraprocessed food. It is unrealistic to expect the vast majority of humans to prioritize the long term in every single decision they make, especially if they have a dim view of the long term. It is logical to want to enjoy life in the present, even if it will hurt in the long term, if you are being brought down by other aspects, such as stress about income volatility and belief in low probabilities of upward movement, etc.
- t-writescode 1y ago
  Being poor is expensive. Just like $50 shoes that last 6 months and $200 shoes that last 10 years, when you’re poor, you often have to chose the less expensive, short-term option because the more expensive, far far better option is literally out of reach.
  - nradov 1y ago
dfxm12 1y ago
Perhaps this is a function of "easy to find". Food deserts are a problem with regards to a lot of families only having little access to fresh foods. When you have to drive 30 min to the IGA, maybe you overbuy compared driving the 5 min to shop at the dollar general. The consolidation of big supermarket chains contributes to the creation of food deserts.

smileysteve 1y ago

Now if Coke was pressured to add 1g of fiber to products, we could be talking.

Der_Einzige 1y ago

You can make America far more healthy by doing the following: 1. Mandating lower amounts of sugar, and significantly switching to zero calorie non glycemic sweeteners. 2. Removing plastic packaging and eliminating sources of microplastics and other endocrine disruption contamination of our food supply/ 3. Banning most of the stuff that the European food agencies ban 4. Getting GLP-1's in the hands of every overweight person in America. It's that easy, but "Make America Healthy Again" was made by a guy who had a worm eat his brain.

kulahan 1y ago
I couldn't possibly disagree with your last point harder. What's with people and blindly trusting that the pharma companies found a holy grail medicine and didn't rush it to market well before the necessary research is in? Even more than that, dosing hundreds of millions of Americans for life is one insanely expensive and ridiculous solution. Side note, is there good research on the effects of microplastics on the body? I'm holding out adding that to my plate of concerns until this is the case, and last I heard we were pretty in-the-dark on the topic.
- colingauvin 1y ago
  If you're worried about the possible, unknown side effects of GLP1s, check out the inevitable, well-known side effects of being morbidly overweight.
  - jay_kyburz 1y ago
    You don't need to start with GLP1s. You can start with smaller portions. Folks need to learn how to eat, not another drug.
    - colingauvin 1y ago
      All available evidence suggests this does not work at population scale.
  - 1y ago

arrozconcosas 1y ago

Many times the ultra processed crap is more expensive. Don't forget "convenient to buy" in addition to "convenient to cook". For example, a cliff bar bought from a corner store could be $3, and is basically a candy bar. A company I like is called Farmer's Fridge, and they basically have vending machines in convenient places with fresh made healthy foods like salads.

nebula8804 1y ago
I love what Farmers Fridge is doing, I wish their prices were cheaper but Im glad that they exist and I hope they continue to grow.

asdff 1y ago

Imo it isn't an availability issue. Polling my friends who are not poor of course but very few of them actually cook. They have the means to, the time to, and they still don't because they don't know how to cook. Greatest generation was still cooking at home and they were far from wealthy especially at the end of their lives living on fixed income and still making meals for all the relatives. It is just like we have collectively forgotten how to cook. Not just cook but to make the sort of intermediary ingredients you use to make many other meals too.