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How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

129 points by mykowebhn 1y ago

Insanity 1y ago
As a European who moved to Canada and spends a fair amount of time in the States, one thing that really surprised me is how hard it is to find healthy food options compared to the unhealthy ones. Food was a bit of a concern before moving, but I didn't know just how frustrating it would be. Even something as simple as Yogurt is usually insanely sweet / sugary compared to European variants. Ingredients that are banned in Europe are regularly found in products, and something as simple as bread has a ton of preservatives (as the article shows). And I'm vegetarian, I assume for people who eat meat there's the additional concern of antibiotics resistance due to the antibiotics given to livestock.
- dkga 1y ago
  Exactly my impression. And on top of things I need to keep a strict gluten-free diet. It’s a horrible experience.
- colechristensen 1y ago
  >I assume for people who eat meat there's the additional concern of antibiotics resistance due to the antibiotics given to livestock. The concern isn't eating meat from an animal treated with antibiotics infecting you with resistant bacteria. The concern is treating animals with antibiotics puts evolutionary pressure towards breeding resistant bacteria that spill into the ecosystem and eventually get back to us. But not through meat consumption, it effects everyone regardless of diet.
  - 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
    Specifically: animal waste is sometimes used as fertilizer, and sometimes that waste isn't treated properly to eliminate pathogens. Sometimes you're eating antibiotic-resistant-waste-laden plants, and sometimes those plants are fed to animals that humans then eat. Same for aquatic plants/animals downstream of animal waste. Even drinking water can be contaminated. Antibiotic resistant bacteria isn't the only harmful downstream effect of factory farms of course. Regular-old harmful bacteria are in the runoff, as well as super-high levels of nutrients that harm waterways, plants and animals. Algal blooms, oxygen dead zones, contaminated water table, etc. All because we really like cheap pork, beef and chicken.
    - colechristensen 1y ago
      Not really no. I'm not saying eating a bit of cow poop on your lettuce never gets anyone sick, but that's not the mechanism of concern. One: poop is mostly bacteria, by mass. It isn't infected with ... it is. Some can be "pathogens" but that's what the last stage of digestion is, fermentation with mostly a wide array of bacteria. The concern is these gut bacteria developing antibiotic resistance and bacterial infections in the animal developing resistance. Then infections are spread between animals and across species and the waste is reintroduced into the environment. Resistant bacteria in the environment share. Horizontal gene transfer between species of bacteria can lead to these resistance genes being popular and everywhere. It's not cow poop infecting you, its the genetics getting spread into the environment and eventually ending up in a human pathogen. >animal waste is sometimes used as fertilizer More or less all industrial farmed animal waste ends up as fertilizer. Also a major component of the kinds of soil we grow crops in is bacteria, much of which has been through the digestive system of an animal. Again I don't know what people think soil is. If you want "clean"(?) never been poop growth medium for your plants you have to go completely artificial. And manure isn't sterilized before it goes into fields, it's alive.
- nradov 1y ago
  Every grocery store where I've shopped has yogurt with no added sugar. It's right there on the shelf, just look at the label. Antibiotic resistance is a concern but the FDA has made progress in that area. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicrobial-resistance https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicr... The EU bans routine antibiotic use for promoting animal growth but antibiotics are still widely used for other purposes. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/first-report-eu-wide-sales-use-antimicrobials-animals https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/first-report-eu-wide-sales...
  - 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
    The US still used 6.1 million kilograms of medically important antibiotics for animal farming in 2023. It was only down 2% from the year before. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/antimicrobial-stewardship/fda-report-shows-small-decline-sales-antibiotics-food-producing-animals https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/antimicrobial-stewardship/fda-rep...
    - parineum 1y ago
      That sounds like a lot but what's the comparison to another country adjusted per animal (or weight of meat produced?)?
      - benrutter 1y ago
        This paper[0] (from a UK activist group but well referenced) says: > US farm antibiotic use is 2.6 times higher than the median use in European countries and 60% higher than the average use throughout Europe. [0] https://www.saveourantibiotics.org/media/1830/farm-antibiotic-use-in-the-united-states-2020-a-threat-to-uk-standards.pdf https://www.saveourantibiotics.org/media/1830/farm-antibioti...
  - throwway120385 1y ago
    It's marked as "plain" yogurt. You can still find adulterants in it, just not added sugars. For example Trader Joe's "plain yogurt" is a mixture of yogurt and buttermilk.
- SirFatty 1y ago
  "...how hard it is to find healthy food options compared to the unhealthy ones." Sure, if you limit your purchases to Dollar General and Casey's. If you spent time in an actual grocery store, you'd find that your comment isn't true.
  - garciasn 1y ago
    Depends on the grocery store. If you shop exclusively at Target, a company that caters primarily to those who ‘prepare’ as opposed to those who ‘cook’ you’ll find less healthy options than actual grocery stores.
    - vel0city 1y ago
      That depends a lot on the Target. One location around me only has a very small produce section for their groceries with everything else pretty much being prepackaged products. Another location has quite a large produce section along with a deli, a butcher counter, and a bakery.
      - garciasn 1y ago
        I was speaking about SuperTargets, not standard Targets. And I’m not sure why folks are downvoting this; objectively, Target has limited and terrible selection compared to standalone grocers.
        vel0city 1y ago
        In my travels I've found even the size and quality of the produce sections of SuperTargets can be quite variable. But yes, I do agree their range of choices for fresh food products is usually more limited compared to good, actual grocers. But that applies to their packaged goods as well, they often don't have as many choices of lots of things. I might find almost a dozen brands of pasta at an actual grocer but only have three or four brands at Target. To me it seems the ratio is about the same, its just the scale is different. And to be honest, its the same story for practically all the stuff at Target. They don't have the widest supply of craft supplies compared to craft stores like Michael's and Hobby Lobby. They don't have the widest selection of bicycles compared to the bike store. They don't have nearly as many toys as what Toys R Us did. The book section is smaller than a Barnes & Noble. What else is new.
- jeffbee 1y ago
  I've lived in various American cities and in all of them there is some place that sells real food, but often it's not the obvious one with the bright sign and the galaxy-scale parking lot.
  - asdff 1y ago
    You don't think a place like Kroger sells real food? Come on. Enough with the tired hyperbole.
- at-fates-hands 1y ago
  My weekly routine now consists of going to local farmer's market and buying stuff from farms I trust. Going to local butchers to get grass fed, naturally raised meats. Then off to the local grocery store to get whatever else I need that week for the stuff I prepare at home. If you want to eat healthy, you certainly can, but takes quite a bit of effort and some additional cost. Processed and ultraprocessed food has just made us lazy - like eating at fast food restaurants became easier than going home and preparing something from scratch. COVID and the huge surge in prices that have yet to come down essentially forced my hand to find a better, healthier way to eat. It sucks, but at the end of the day, I know myself and my family are eating healthier regardless of the effort it takes.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    I don't know why farmers markets are given such a benefit of trust. They are largely unregulated and uninspected. And you'll pay $8 for a head of lettuce.
    - at-fates-hands 1y ago
      This is why I only buy from the farms I know and trust. There's two families I know who sell at smaller markets in the city and one farm that is close enough to my house I go directly to their farm where they have a small setup where a lot of other locals go. You're right though there are a lot of unsavory people who claim to be from local farms but very clearly are not. People who are selling sweet corn in May/June claiming their local. Sweet corn isn't normally harvested until late Summer, early Fall.
  - gruez 1y ago
    >My weekly routine now consists of going to local farmer's market and buying stuff from farms I trust. Going to local butchers to get grass fed, naturally raised meats. Then off to the local grocery store to get whatever else I need that week for the stuff I prepare at home. >If you want to eat healthy, you certainly can, but takes quite a bit of effort and some additional cost. It does, but you really don't need to go to farmers markets and buy grass fed beef from a dedicated butcher to "eat healthy". You can get 95-100% of the benefits of your routine by going to a regular supermarket and buying non-ultraprocessed foods.
- jjtheblunt 1y ago
  just as a datapoint: we learn to carefully (compulsively perhaps) read labels stateside, for all the reasons you mention. i.e., these same revelations and frustrations are shared by a huge swath of people born in the States (probably Canada too), and it is indeed a pain in the neck being continually paranoid about what nutritional rubbish is included in ingredient lists.
  - jay_kyburz 1y ago
    Food labels in the US and Canada suck as well compared to the UK and Australia. How big is a serve, who's percent daily value? Those numbers just aren't useful. Here in Australia we have a column for grams per 100g by weight. It makes it much easier to compare foods.
    - hvb2 1y ago
      Units in the US make comparisons hard... Same problem in recipes...
      - jay_kyburz 1y ago
        You could just have percentage per weight. ie. This product is 30% sugar. Instead you have than x% of your recommended daily amount, if you are an average size American, eating an average size serving according to the FDA. How are you supposed to do anything with that.
    - jjtheblunt 1y ago
      that sounds actually useful!
    - tpmoney 1y ago
      The RDV is based on a 2000 Calorie / day diet as noted on the same labels.
- Simulacra 1y ago
  My conspiracy theory is at healthier foods are deliberately made more expensive, to push people into the cheaper ultra processed foods. It's kind of like cigarettes, push them into the more addictive, cheaper products to hook them.
  - gruez 1y ago
    No need to invoke conspiracies here when the ultraprocessing makes food last longer, more delicious, and allows manufacturers to skimp on more expensive ingredients (eg. "ice cream" that use thickeners rather than actual cream).
  - Guid_NewGuid 1y ago
    It's exactly like cigarettes because it is the same companies. https://lsa.umich.edu/psych/news-events/all-news/faculty-news/many-of-today-s-unhealthy-foods-were-brought-to-you-by-big-tobac.html https://lsa.umich.edu/psych/news-events/all-news/faculty-new...
  - nebula8804 1y ago
    Its more a matter of whats subsidized. All that corn grown thanks to the corn and soy bills passed to support midwestern farmers are used for things such as plumping up cows/pigs/etc, used for a inefficient form of fuel (biodiesel, E85), and finally pumped into all the foods as HFCS among other things. The farmers can keep growing unproductive crops and stay in business (so politicians won't be hearing from them), the government can ensure the farmland processes will be available during wartime and they can check off their requirements of ensuring all citizens have a minimal required number of "calories". Its a symptom of same thing that is messing up the US in all other areas. Poor governance caused by layers of people all along the stack taking their cut and not caring about the overall picture.
- wenc 1y ago
  As a Canadian living in the US, I’d say your sentiment depends on where you live and what you’re willing to pay. In the Seattle area there are overpriced grocery stores like PCC and Met Market that sell healthy food at a premium. There is also Whole Foods. Even normal grocery stores like Safeway and Kroger have a ton of healthy foods — you just have to read the label. The one thing you have to know if that American grocery stores are giant — they carry way more SKUs than the average European grocery store. It’s on the shopper to find what they want. It’s usually there.
  - hvb2 1y ago
    > they carry way more SKUs Not compared to France :) you can buy a dishwasher a tv and stuff for your car all in the same supermarket... Don't ask me why, just stating a fact
    - spogbiper 1y ago
      this sounds like a "super" walmart or target in the US. everything from garden furniture to broccoli to laptops
    - wenc 1y ago
      Those are the larger format stores in France. In the US they are called Fred Meyer, Meijer, etc.
    - Atomic_Torrfisk 1y ago
      The quality of food (and price) of grocery stores in France make grocery stores in Norway feel like a cruel joke. I visited a carrefour(?) in France and I swear the fruit and vegetables were so fresh they looked like wax stage food... honestly it was a highlight of my trip and selection of cheese made me feel a little unkultured.
- thinkingtoilet 1y ago
  I buy unsweetened yogurt then sweeten it myself with a very small amount of actual syrup from a tree (yes, there is fake syrup).
- orochimaaru 1y ago
  Just get plain unsweetened full fat yogurt. Every store has that. Yeah - the sweetened/flavored variety are more but the basic unsweetened is also easily available. Bread is a bit of a shit show. Stick to something like sourdough for 0 adde sugars. Hormones are banned for meat and poultry. I’m not sure how antibiotics are treated. Fwiw - with vegetarian food you also run the risk of pesticide contamination. Either way, my point is that there’s a lot of options but do your research before you hit the store and in general try to limit highly processed food
  - portaouflop 1y ago
    In my experience the store has 10000 different kinds of sweetened yoghurt and exactly one that is “real” yogurt - often doesn’t have full fat yogurt at all. Completely impossible to get normal bread unless you go to some hipster store that charges an insane amount for it. It’s just really really hard to get decent food in America, which is crazy because the land is so rich in resources and nature.
    - orochimaaru 1y ago
      Depends on where you shop. But I think even Walmart has organic options these days.
    - volkl48 1y ago
      Loaves of fresh bread are generally in the bakery section of the grocery store. If you're looking for a loaf of bread (often unsliced) that was baked that morning, has a much shorter ingredients list that's often solely the basic traditional ones, doesn't necessarily have any sugar added, and will not keep for anywhere near as long, that's where it is. I'm not promising it'll live up to your standards, of course. The bread aisle is pretty much for sliced sandwich bread (+ buns + similar things) that has preservatives to last for at least a week, and was usually not baked on site. ------ I think the secondary point to note is that you're also just running into cultural differences: Americans don't really eat that much bread. And it's not a staple of meals besides 2 slices if you want a sandwich for lunch. Hard data is shaky but most sources I can find put American per-capita bread consumption at a small fraction of the consumption of somewhere like France. Having far fewer standalone bakeries and far less "good bread" is not so much that people are eating a bunch of worse bread instead - no one's serving sandwich bread with dinner, they're often just not eating that much bread at all.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- asdff 1y ago
  It isn't hard if you buy the actual raw ingredients and cook for yourself. Produce is fine. Cuts of meat are fine. You can get plain old beans just fine for your vegetarian needs. It is just people in this country have forgotten how to cook. Grandmother made her own mayonnaise. Mom bought kraft. To you making mayonnaise is a black art since mom never did it, so you also buy kraft. Extend that to most other food products.
- ksec 1y ago
  I am starting to think if there are any business opportunities to brand "European Standard" Food as Healthy Options in the US.
- robocat 1y ago
  All the milk I've seen in New Orleans is ultra-pasteurised) to increase its shelflife (in fridge), even expensive organic stuff. I haven't yet looked in speciality groceries. I've just given up on milk while I'm here, because it tastes disgusting (reminds me of " UHT long-life milk sold uncooled in tetrabrick within New Zealand). Apparently normal pasteurised is available from local dairy brands, but I haven't seen any yet. Quality foods in general seem hard to find here - although some of that is because of unfamiliarity - and it isn't cheaper either. I'm looking forward to getting home to better food.
dfxm12 1y ago
They're cheap, easy to find and easy to prepare. With grocery prices going up, what little progress has been made might get reversed, unfortunately. Making America healthy again means making non-ultraprocessed groceries available to everyone & cheaper, and ensuring that working families have time to cook. Pressuring Coke to create a new product with sugar is not going to move the needle.
- pchristensen 1y ago
  Don't forget non-perishable. If you're already having a hard time affording groceries, it really hurts to throw away wilted veggies or moldy fruit.
  - nradov 1y ago
    Canned and frozen vegetables are also non-perishable. While some extremely poor people lack a working freezer or storage space, most consumers can easily use these options.
    - kulahan 1y ago
      Absolutely nothing I've seen anywhere justifies the idea that access to food is the problem. In most cultures, you don't need cooking classes because the food is ingrained into their culture, and recipes are passed down. Americans have a much weaker link to their heritage. You might know a few dishes, but in my experience, absolutely nobody knows how to cook. By cook, I don't mean "can add one box of prepared goods to another box of prepared goods with a can of prepared goods on the side", I mean buying meat, veggies, fruit, and grains and cooking a dish from home, mostly from scratch. edit: 13 million Americans are in food deserts. If the problem were that small, it'd be similar in size to people who are addicted to substances other than alcohol. This is affecting almost everyone. There MUST be another, bigger solution.
      - hvb2 1y ago
        As Gordon Ramsay put it: "Most people don't cook, they heat their food"
Herring 1y ago
For convenience, my rice cooker has been a godsend. I'm basically making homemade chipotle bowls every day.
- enraged_camel 1y ago
  Rice cooker is great. I also use my Instant Pot a ton. Incredibly convenient and an invaluable time saver.
  - apparent 1y ago
    We use our IP to make yogurt (discussed in depth above). Easy to make and when strained, better than any store bought Greek yogurt. Also decent for sous vide. I use a big glass jar instead of plastic bags, which are a health concern.
    - Herring 1y ago
      Have you tried making kefir? It’s much easier and likely better if you’re going for probiotics.
- johnrob 1y ago
  If you don’t have one, try an Instant Pot which can pressure cook (in addition to rice cooker features). Dry beans can be ready to eat in an hour.
  - dswalter 1y ago
    Instant Pot Garbanzo beans/chickpeas with a tiny bit of salt are a favorite in my home. Creamy, savory, and delicious! Cannellini beans are also lovely.
  - lokar 1y ago
    Fancy (Asian) rice cookers use pressure
  - lapetitejort 1y ago
ArchOversight 1y ago
https://archive.is/eWcpP https://archive.is/eWcpP
- benjaminclauss 1y ago
  Is it just me or is this super unreadable?
  - fusslo 1y ago
    yeah, I think it's one of those annoyingly over stylized articles that animates/loads as you scroll and Archive doesn't preserve the javascript (or whatever) to make it look & work right
fnordpiglet 1y ago
Due to the paywall I couldn’t get beyond the first image claiming convenience. I’ve no idea what the rest says so I’ll speak disconnected from the content and just to the concept. People assume ultra processed came about due to demand side factors but it’s actually more about supply side supply chain management and the scale in size of the US. By processing the food into more constructed ingredients they always enter a state where they’re easy to package and distribute across vast distances in that state. They can then be combined into food that is palatable through additives. Indeed the process disrupts the natural structure and content of the food - but that was necessary to feed everyone at a reasonable price a variety of foods grown across a vast distance at a reasonable price. Obviously this led to demand because the food was more complete and varied than was generally available at the fresh grocer. Convenience was a side effect as well that was well capitalized. These arguments actually hold until pretty recently. Even in my lifetime grocery stores growing up were pretty stark affairs with a few expensive fresh products that you splurged on for a special dinner like thanksgiving. Daily food was basically processed rations with a fancy box. It’s only in my adulthood, and the lifetime of the millennials, that there was really much optionality as supply chains globally and fresh food distribution with widely available refrigerated trucking with ethylene gas storage proliferated, free trade opened, etc. Before all this, in my parents generation, the other option for ultra processed foods was malnutrition and wide spread rickets. It was when we tried to draft for WWII and the majority of rural young men were so malnourished as to be unfit for war that things really changed. To sit today and compare the options of fresh food available and wonder how we got here ignores the reality of how we got here. But we are here so indeed, eat fresh and be happy we have free trade!
- Milpotel 1y ago
  That's a bit too naive considering how bad food became during the last decade. Formerly perfectly fine products now have artificial ingredients to increase profits.
  - fnordpiglet 1y ago
    How is it naive? You were literally unable to eat the foods because they rotted in delivery and refrigeration was so expensive it made fresh foods unaffordable to the consumer. Even then they were not edible because they were not ripened due to the lack of ethylene. I’m not discussing the last decade, in fact in the last decade the availability of fresh food is absurdly better vs say 1930-1995 or so. The article also starts in 1950. We are at a point where we can turn the tide, but the prevalence of fresh food in the store is counter balanced by the fact affordability is decreasing as inflation, restrictions on free trade, and stagnation of lower income takes the fresh foods away as an option. Add into it cultural inertia of 70 years of processed food prevalence as a staple food, you end up in this situation.
ChrisArchitect 1y ago
Gift link: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/10/16/well/eat/ultraprocessed-food-junk-history.html?unlocked_article_code=1.t08.rIoJ.-Yl-sKmq8FEG&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/10/16/well/eat/ultr...
stuffn 1y ago
I grew up with a lot of ultra-processed foods and these days have found several places where I can get good quality food. I am fortunate to live in an area with a decent farmer's market "community" and some bespoke shops. Generally, I've found that mixing farmers market with ethnic markets (for meat) seems to provide significantly better quality than your average chain. I suppose that the article hits on it a bit but a lot of the popular brands were great depression era hits. Most of us grew up on various forms of slop: hamburger helper, velveeta mac n cheese, spam, etc. The common link between everything I ate was it was easy, and allowed you to significantly stretch the meat in a dish. These days, now that we can afford more, it's most likely a matter of simplicity and brand affiliation. When you have 2/3 of an average store stuffed with ultraprocessed crap and even in the remaining 1/3 you have to be careful it's pretty easy to eat poorly. A perfect example would be "wheat" or "rye" bread which is basically the same as white bread with a little extra added. Though, these days, many even major supermarket chains offer reasonably high quality bread.
jeffbee 1y ago
I just opened up www dot amazon dot com and filled my cart with $50 worth of food that will be delivered to my door in a few hours: rice, potatoes, farro, beans, peppers, ginger, onions, garlic frozen peas, frozen carrots, plain low-fat yogurt, chicken thighs, and good bread. I don't want to hear anyone telling me that American capitalism has robbed us of real food. If anything, American capitalism has heaped upon us the cheapest and most convenient selection of food imaginable, but some people just can't stop shoveling down Flamin' Hot Froot Loops.
- brazukadev 1y ago
  > I don't want to hear anyone telling me that American capitalism has robbed us of real food they didn't rob it, they hid it and put zillions of billboards selling their ultra-proccessed ultra-palatable anything with a huge profit margin.
  - vel0city 1y ago
    Almost every grocery store I've been to in the US has either the produce or bakery section right at the front door.
- arrozconcosas 1y ago
  If you make a system that has 1,000 nudges towards Fruit Loops and hides the healthy thing, then it isn't just an individual choice. Nudges include advertising, availability, addictive ingredients, misleading marketing claims, food engineering, etc. I recommend reading this to get an understanding of how much effort goes into making people make the wrong choices: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinar...
- humptybumpty 1y ago
  Maybe pricing has something to do with it? Total 27,00€ ($31.57) 1kg potatos, 0,99€ 3pcs bell peppers, 1,03€ (x) 1pcs ginger, 0,90€ (x) 1kg onions, 1,59€ 100g garlic, 1,45€ (x) 500g carrots, 0,89€ 500g frozen peas, 1,09€ 1 can white beans, 1,09€ (x) fresh fancy bread, 3,69€ 400g chicken thighs, 4,99€ 1l plain low-fat yogurt, 2,55€ 1kg rice, 3,79€ (x) 650g ”farro”, 2,95€ (x) imported, not local Typical prices in Finland, which is considered to be expensive European country. Could maybe go down to 20+€ with cheapest options.
Simulacra 1y ago
Relevant "The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food" https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinar...
tptacek 1y ago
This all has very big "uncured bacon" energy to me (if you didn't already know: there's no such thing; vendors of uncured bacon performatively drive the same chemical nitrite reaction using vegetable extracts). For example: yogurt becomes a UPF simply by dint of adding carrageenan, which is on the order of calling dashi a UPF because of the kombu. It's not that there isn't a very legitimate issue underneath all this: packaged, hyperpalatable, low-nutritional-density low-satiety foods are probably a major driver of health problems. It's just that "UPF" isn't the right metric for isolating those foods, and with the wrong metrics you end up in a similar place as California does with the Prop 65 warnings. We went through a similar thing with "pink slime" (transglutaminase preservation techniques). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-a9VDIbZCU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-a9VDIbZCU
- supportengineer 1y ago
  I only get the bacon that says "No nitrates, no nitrites"
  - tptacek 1y ago
    If you're talking about American-style bacon, and it tastes like bacon, there's no such thing. They're just exploiting labeling rules by selecting very specific nitrite sources. Nitrites are what give bacon (and ham) its flavor. <strike>This is before we get to the whole premise of avoiding nitrates. Would you eat a beet? That's a serving of industrial bacon's worth of nitrates right there.</strike> Later (Actually, super bad example, since the concern is nitrosamines which are formed in the presence of proteins. The point about the illegitimacy of nitrite-free bacon stands!)
    - supportengineer 1y ago
      I fucking hate beets. For bacon, what do you think of these? Applegate: https://www.raleys.com/product/10400628/applegate-naturals-hickory-smoked-uncured-sunday-bacon https://www.raleys.com/product/10400628/applegate-naturals-h... Coleman: https://www.raleys.com/product/103101180/coleman-natural-bacon-uncured-smoked-applewood https://www.raleys.com/product/103101180/coleman-natural-bac...
arrozconcosas 1y ago
A really nice brand of healthy foods that are trustworthy and less processed is Primal Kitchen. I have zero affiliation with them, just is a brand I trust. Its so hard to shop for things that are healthy. For example, their Ketchup is just Tomato, Vinegar, Salt, Garlic Powder, Onion Powder, and Spices. No sweetener substitutes needed. https://www.primalkitchen.com/products/organic-unsweetened-ketchup https://www.primalkitchen.com/products/organic-unsweetened-k...
hypertexthero 1y ago
In case it’s useful, some healthy recipes by two people who’ve traveled around the world in a small boat: https://grimgrains.com/site/home.html https://grimgrains.com/site/home.html
talkingtab 1y ago
People in the US are so trained by the food industry, that they do not know what good food is. Yogurt for example. Here is an experiment you can do at home if you want to disbelieve my statement. Step #1 Make good yogurt and eat it. 1. Go buy a quart of milk, full fat. 2. Buy some yogurt culture. Bulgarian preferred. 3. Follow the directions. You need to keep the temp at around 110F, warm water bath, heating pad, hot water bottles, put it in a cooler, whatever. This is one of the best foods there is. Step 2. Go to your grocery store or stores and try to find some yogurt that is as good. You can repeat these steps for other foods. Coffee - roast your own. Cheese. Just go to a gourmet cheese store. Get something that does not come in a plastic bag. Or go to Europe and try real croissants. Everyone in Paris can get real croissants almost anywhere every day. And not to mention real bread - again the plastic bag. We are so used to what is available here that we have come believe it is "food" when really it is just adulterated to have a long shelf life. Sorry, but really just try it.
- duped 1y ago
  I mean there are things you can reasonably do better than the grocery store but something things are unrealistic. Like "just go to a gourmet cheese store" is not something you can do in most of the country. I live in one of the largest metro areas with quite a few Michelin star and recommended eateries, lovely food culture, and we love our dairy. I think there are two dedicated cheese mongers you can walk into in the entire area, neither are particularly accessible.
  - bigstrat2003 1y ago
    I think dedicated cheese mongers are a lot more accessible than you are envisioning based on your experience. I live in Denver, which is a large city but by no means one of the largest in the country. We have no Michelin star restaurants that I know of, we don't have a dairy industry or anything like that. We still have multiple dedicated cheese stores in the area that one can get to. It's not that niche to enjoy good cheese.
    - duped 1y ago
ruralfam 1y ago
Not sure this is a good post, but might be so taking the risk. I am snacking right now on some UPF - my 10% vice. However, my 90% is pretty good. One NOT-UPF staple is steel cut oats that are slow cooked. Very easy, healthy and likely as NOT-UPF as you can get. Recipie: 3 cups steel cut oats (I use Bob's Red Mill Organic), 1+ Qt water, 1 Qt Skim Milk, 1+ Teaspon salt. Combine everything into a suitable pot. Slow cook at 150F for six hours. Stir occasionally. Explore ways to eat. E.g. warm in microwave with some blueberries, and a bit of brown sugar. Stores in the Fridge for a long time. HTH, NSC (+ means "a bit more than")
- hexbin010 1y ago
  [dead]
- grvdrm 1y ago
  Right there with you but in way less time w pressure cooker.
Havoc 1y ago
Currently trying to track down a something I'm sensitive/allergic to and this is where I started - a wide but pretty bland whole foods diet. Theory being that the issue is one of the billion colourants/flavourants/preservatives & cooking from scratch cuts most of them. Too early to confidently tell (4 days in)...but the vibes sure feel promising
morgango 1y ago
That was incredibly difficult to read. Text would be nice.
robinsoncrusue 1y ago
My ancestors are from Asia. Over there, a saying goes something like this if I can translate it without the color of the language: "Give a man a solid breakfast and he will not make noise around the kitchen rest of the day". Even less colorful way to say it is if you want to be healthy, start with a healthy breakfast. As much as there are all the science around low carb diet and optimizing calories, macros and what not, I think there are some wisdom to it in the long game view. Someone that had a good nutritious breakfast (you will notice every major culture has its variant of breakfast akin to "English breakfast"), would have less difficulty resisting food with empty calories and doing frequent snacking. Contrary, if you had packaged "cereal" with questionable ingredients and nutrition density, no wonder by 11 you will feel the need to snack. And then if you happen to have a lunch in one of the typical take out restaurants optimized for cost at the expense of quality, a 3pm snacking is more likely than not. By the end of the day, you had racked up calories intake with bunch of empty calories from those snacking episodes that could be entirely prevented with a solid dense breakfast.
- stonemetal12 1y ago
  The American version "Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" started as a breakfast cereal marketing line, not an endorsement for eating an "English breakfast". I will take the science over old wives tales and marketing bs any day. Even if the science is as poorly done as most nutrition science is.
  - jerlam 1y ago
    I always thought the emphasis on breakfast originated in cultures or times where it would be followed by a long day of manual labor. This also ignores that most European countries emphasize breakfast even less than Americans, and that the British (home of the English breakfast) have a lower life expectancy than most of their western European peers (but not as low as Americans).
    - IAmBroom 1y ago
      Both might be true, but the saying about "most important meal of the day" was genuinely marketing lies.
pessimizer 1y ago
Why is someone so determined to force this "ultraprocessed foods" meme? Is it just so they can get a government definition of "ultraprocessed foods" that somehow doesn't include foods that are 1/3 teflon by weight? There are plenty of specific processes that are extremely questionable and probably dangerous. Europe bans a lot of them, or to be fair almost everybody bans them but the US. But somehow, when the references to food additives and processes get specific, outlets like the NYT start using phrases that include "right-wing," "corners of the internet," "rant," "outburst," "conspiracy theories," "...but the science actually says...," "the consensus," "...that the vast majority of scientists agree to be safe..." etc... Also, dangerous additives and processes are an entirely different question than talking about people eating fatty, sugary, salty foods because they like them. They're on the verge of turning "ultraprocessed foods" into a moral crusade against the tastes of the lumpen, which their upper-middle class audience loves because it allows them to feel superior (and deserving.) Also, preservatives are good. They make food cheaper and make it last longer. I want dangerous preservatives banned.
- NicuCalcea 1y ago
  I didn't read any of the points you're arguing against in the article.
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  This "meme" has been scientifically studied. Carefully defining a term so that the industry can't simply sidestep it ("no added sugar! - if you don't count apple juice) is difficult.
deleted 1y ago
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sizzle 1y ago
For anyone having gastrointestinal issues from processed foods in America, I implore you to take a trip to the EU and experience the lack of digestive issues their foods have on your gut. It really changed my relationship with food knowing that it’s not my gut malfunctioning but stems from what I’m putting in me.
scotty79 1y ago
Do you know of any research showing that ultra-processed food in general is bad? The only thing I found was comparing ultra-processed food with other food with the same nutritional value that concluded that people get fatter on UPF because they eat more of it. The only conclusion I could draw from it is that UPF is just tastier. (or hyper palatable if you want to make it sound more sinister)
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  Not to be glib, but the answer to your question is as simple as https://www.google.com/search?q=research+showing+that+ultra-processed+food+in+general+is+bad https://www.google.com/search?q=research+showing+that+ultra-... Spoiler: it increases your chance of cancer and other mortality issues. And makes you fat.
  - scotty79 1y ago
    Being fat is a known cancer risk and risk for other issues. Does UPF add anything to that? Or is the only charge against it that it's easy to eat more of it? If so basically if you can keep your weight in check you can eat any amount of UPF without any adverse effects, right?

129 points by mykowebhn 1y ago

As a European who moved to Canada and spends a fair amount of time in the States, one thing that really surprised me is how hard it is to find healthy food options compared to the unhealthy ones. Food was a bit of a concern before moving, but I didn't know just how frustrating it would be. Even something as simple as Yogurt is usually insanely sweet / sugary compared to European variants. Ingredients that are banned in Europe are regularly found in products, and something as simple as bread has a ton of preservatives (as the article shows). And I'm vegetarian, I assume for people who eat meat there's the additional concern of antibiotics resistance due to the antibiotics given to livestock.

dkga 1y ago
Exactly my impression. And on top of things I need to keep a strict gluten-free diet. It’s a horrible experience.
colechristensen 1y ago
>I assume for people who eat meat there's the additional concern of antibiotics resistance due to the antibiotics given to livestock. The concern isn't eating meat from an animal treated with antibiotics infecting you with resistant bacteria. The concern is treating animals with antibiotics puts evolutionary pressure towards breeding resistant bacteria that spill into the ecosystem and eventually get back to us. But not through meat consumption, it effects everyone regardless of diet.
- 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
  Specifically: animal waste is sometimes used as fertilizer, and sometimes that waste isn't treated properly to eliminate pathogens. Sometimes you're eating antibiotic-resistant-waste-laden plants, and sometimes those plants are fed to animals that humans then eat. Same for aquatic plants/animals downstream of animal waste. Even drinking water can be contaminated. Antibiotic resistant bacteria isn't the only harmful downstream effect of factory farms of course. Regular-old harmful bacteria are in the runoff, as well as super-high levels of nutrients that harm waterways, plants and animals. Algal blooms, oxygen dead zones, contaminated water table, etc. All because we really like cheap pork, beef and chicken.
  - colechristensen 1y ago
    Not really no. I'm not saying eating a bit of cow poop on your lettuce never gets anyone sick, but that's not the mechanism of concern. One: poop is mostly bacteria, by mass. It isn't infected with ... it is. Some can be "pathogens" but that's what the last stage of digestion is, fermentation with mostly a wide array of bacteria. The concern is these gut bacteria developing antibiotic resistance and bacterial infections in the animal developing resistance. Then infections are spread between animals and across species and the waste is reintroduced into the environment. Resistant bacteria in the environment share. Horizontal gene transfer between species of bacteria can lead to these resistance genes being popular and everywhere. It's not cow poop infecting you, its the genetics getting spread into the environment and eventually ending up in a human pathogen. >animal waste is sometimes used as fertilizer More or less all industrial farmed animal waste ends up as fertilizer. Also a major component of the kinds of soil we grow crops in is bacteria, much of which has been through the digestive system of an animal. Again I don't know what people think soil is. If you want "clean"(?) never been poop growth medium for your plants you have to go completely artificial. And manure isn't sterilized before it goes into fields, it's alive.
nradov 1y ago
Every grocery store where I've shopped has yogurt with no added sugar. It's right there on the shelf, just look at the label. Antibiotic resistance is a concern but the FDA has made progress in that area. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicrobial-resistance https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicr... The EU bans routine antibiotic use for promoting animal growth but antibiotics are still widely used for other purposes. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/first-report-eu-wide-sales-use-antimicrobials-animals https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/first-report-eu-wide-sales...
- 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
  The US still used 6.1 million kilograms of medically important antibiotics for animal farming in 2023. It was only down 2% from the year before. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/antimicrobial-stewardship/fda-report-shows-small-decline-sales-antibiotics-food-producing-animals https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/antimicrobial-stewardship/fda-rep...
  - parineum 1y ago
    That sounds like a lot but what's the comparison to another country adjusted per animal (or weight of meat produced?)?
    - benrutter 1y ago
      This paper[0] (from a UK activist group but well referenced) says: > US farm antibiotic use is 2.6 times higher than the median use in European countries and 60% higher than the average use throughout Europe. [0] https://www.saveourantibiotics.org/media/1830/farm-antibiotic-use-in-the-united-states-2020-a-threat-to-uk-standards.pdf https://www.saveourantibiotics.org/media/1830/farm-antibioti...
- throwway120385 1y ago
  It's marked as "plain" yogurt. You can still find adulterants in it, just not added sugars. For example Trader Joe's "plain yogurt" is a mixture of yogurt and buttermilk.
SirFatty 1y ago
"...how hard it is to find healthy food options compared to the unhealthy ones." Sure, if you limit your purchases to Dollar General and Casey's. If you spent time in an actual grocery store, you'd find that your comment isn't true.
- garciasn 1y ago
  Depends on the grocery store. If you shop exclusively at Target, a company that caters primarily to those who ‘prepare’ as opposed to those who ‘cook’ you’ll find less healthy options than actual grocery stores.
  - vel0city 1y ago
    That depends a lot on the Target. One location around me only has a very small produce section for their groceries with everything else pretty much being prepackaged products. Another location has quite a large produce section along with a deli, a butcher counter, and a bakery.
    - garciasn 1y ago
      I was speaking about SuperTargets, not standard Targets. And I’m not sure why folks are downvoting this; objectively, Target has limited and terrible selection compared to standalone grocers.
      - vel0city 1y ago
        In my travels I've found even the size and quality of the produce sections of SuperTargets can be quite variable. But yes, I do agree their range of choices for fresh food products is usually more limited compared to good, actual grocers. But that applies to their packaged goods as well, they often don't have as many choices of lots of things. I might find almost a dozen brands of pasta at an actual grocer but only have three or four brands at Target. To me it seems the ratio is about the same, its just the scale is different. And to be honest, its the same story for practically all the stuff at Target. They don't have the widest supply of craft supplies compared to craft stores like Michael's and Hobby Lobby. They don't have the widest selection of bicycles compared to the bike store. They don't have nearly as many toys as what Toys R Us did. The book section is smaller than a Barnes & Noble. What else is new.
jeffbee 1y ago
I've lived in various American cities and in all of them there is some place that sells real food, but often it's not the obvious one with the bright sign and the galaxy-scale parking lot.
- asdff 1y ago
  You don't think a place like Kroger sells real food? Come on. Enough with the tired hyperbole.
at-fates-hands 1y ago
My weekly routine now consists of going to local farmer's market and buying stuff from farms I trust. Going to local butchers to get grass fed, naturally raised meats. Then off to the local grocery store to get whatever else I need that week for the stuff I prepare at home. If you want to eat healthy, you certainly can, but takes quite a bit of effort and some additional cost. Processed and ultraprocessed food has just made us lazy - like eating at fast food restaurants became easier than going home and preparing something from scratch. COVID and the huge surge in prices that have yet to come down essentially forced my hand to find a better, healthier way to eat. It sucks, but at the end of the day, I know myself and my family are eating healthier regardless of the effort it takes.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  I don't know why farmers markets are given such a benefit of trust. They are largely unregulated and uninspected. And you'll pay $8 for a head of lettuce.
  - at-fates-hands 1y ago
    This is why I only buy from the farms I know and trust. There's two families I know who sell at smaller markets in the city and one farm that is close enough to my house I go directly to their farm where they have a small setup where a lot of other locals go. You're right though there are a lot of unsavory people who claim to be from local farms but very clearly are not. People who are selling sweet corn in May/June claiming their local. Sweet corn isn't normally harvested until late Summer, early Fall.
- gruez 1y ago
  >My weekly routine now consists of going to local farmer's market and buying stuff from farms I trust. Going to local butchers to get grass fed, naturally raised meats. Then off to the local grocery store to get whatever else I need that week for the stuff I prepare at home. >If you want to eat healthy, you certainly can, but takes quite a bit of effort and some additional cost. It does, but you really don't need to go to farmers markets and buy grass fed beef from a dedicated butcher to "eat healthy". You can get 95-100% of the benefits of your routine by going to a regular supermarket and buying non-ultraprocessed foods.
jjtheblunt 1y ago
just as a datapoint: we learn to carefully (compulsively perhaps) read labels stateside, for all the reasons you mention. i.e., these same revelations and frustrations are shared by a huge swath of people born in the States (probably Canada too), and it is indeed a pain in the neck being continually paranoid about what nutritional rubbish is included in ingredient lists.
- jay_kyburz 1y ago
  Food labels in the US and Canada suck as well compared to the UK and Australia. How big is a serve, who's percent daily value? Those numbers just aren't useful. Here in Australia we have a column for grams per 100g by weight. It makes it much easier to compare foods.
  - hvb2 1y ago
    Units in the US make comparisons hard... Same problem in recipes...
    - jay_kyburz 1y ago
      You could just have percentage per weight. ie. This product is 30% sugar. Instead you have than x% of your recommended daily amount, if you are an average size American, eating an average size serving according to the FDA. How are you supposed to do anything with that.
  - jjtheblunt 1y ago
    that sounds actually useful!
  - tpmoney 1y ago
    The RDV is based on a 2000 Calorie / day diet as noted on the same labels.
Simulacra 1y ago
My conspiracy theory is at healthier foods are deliberately made more expensive, to push people into the cheaper ultra processed foods. It's kind of like cigarettes, push them into the more addictive, cheaper products to hook them.
- gruez 1y ago
  No need to invoke conspiracies here when the ultraprocessing makes food last longer, more delicious, and allows manufacturers to skimp on more expensive ingredients (eg. "ice cream" that use thickeners rather than actual cream).
- Guid_NewGuid 1y ago
  It's exactly like cigarettes because it is the same companies. https://lsa.umich.edu/psych/news-events/all-news/faculty-news/many-of-today-s-unhealthy-foods-were-brought-to-you-by-big-tobac.html https://lsa.umich.edu/psych/news-events/all-news/faculty-new...
- nebula8804 1y ago
  Its more a matter of whats subsidized. All that corn grown thanks to the corn and soy bills passed to support midwestern farmers are used for things such as plumping up cows/pigs/etc, used for a inefficient form of fuel (biodiesel, E85), and finally pumped into all the foods as HFCS among other things. The farmers can keep growing unproductive crops and stay in business (so politicians won't be hearing from them), the government can ensure the farmland processes will be available during wartime and they can check off their requirements of ensuring all citizens have a minimal required number of "calories". Its a symptom of same thing that is messing up the US in all other areas. Poor governance caused by layers of people all along the stack taking their cut and not caring about the overall picture.
wenc 1y ago
As a Canadian living in the US, I’d say your sentiment depends on where you live and what you’re willing to pay. In the Seattle area there are overpriced grocery stores like PCC and Met Market that sell healthy food at a premium. There is also Whole Foods. Even normal grocery stores like Safeway and Kroger have a ton of healthy foods — you just have to read the label. The one thing you have to know if that American grocery stores are giant — they carry way more SKUs than the average European grocery store. It’s on the shopper to find what they want. It’s usually there.
- hvb2 1y ago
  > they carry way more SKUs Not compared to France :) you can buy a dishwasher a tv and stuff for your car all in the same supermarket... Don't ask me why, just stating a fact
  - spogbiper 1y ago
    this sounds like a "super" walmart or target in the US. everything from garden furniture to broccoli to laptops
  - wenc 1y ago
    Those are the larger format stores in France. In the US they are called Fred Meyer, Meijer, etc.
  - Atomic_Torrfisk 1y ago
    The quality of food (and price) of grocery stores in France make grocery stores in Norway feel like a cruel joke. I visited a carrefour(?) in France and I swear the fruit and vegetables were so fresh they looked like wax stage food... honestly it was a highlight of my trip and selection of cheese made me feel a little unkultured.
thinkingtoilet 1y ago
I buy unsweetened yogurt then sweeten it myself with a very small amount of actual syrup from a tree (yes, there is fake syrup).
orochimaaru 1y ago
Just get plain unsweetened full fat yogurt. Every store has that. Yeah - the sweetened/flavored variety are more but the basic unsweetened is also easily available. Bread is a bit of a shit show. Stick to something like sourdough for 0 adde sugars. Hormones are banned for meat and poultry. I’m not sure how antibiotics are treated. Fwiw - with vegetarian food you also run the risk of pesticide contamination. Either way, my point is that there’s a lot of options but do your research before you hit the store and in general try to limit highly processed food
- portaouflop 1y ago
  In my experience the store has 10000 different kinds of sweetened yoghurt and exactly one that is “real” yogurt - often doesn’t have full fat yogurt at all. Completely impossible to get normal bread unless you go to some hipster store that charges an insane amount for it. It’s just really really hard to get decent food in America, which is crazy because the land is so rich in resources and nature.
  - orochimaaru 1y ago
    Depends on where you shop. But I think even Walmart has organic options these days.
  - volkl48 1y ago
    Loaves of fresh bread are generally in the bakery section of the grocery store. If you're looking for a loaf of bread (often unsliced) that was baked that morning, has a much shorter ingredients list that's often solely the basic traditional ones, doesn't necessarily have any sugar added, and will not keep for anywhere near as long, that's where it is. I'm not promising it'll live up to your standards, of course. The bread aisle is pretty much for sliced sandwich bread (+ buns + similar things) that has preservatives to last for at least a week, and was usually not baked on site. ------ I think the secondary point to note is that you're also just running into cultural differences: Americans don't really eat that much bread. And it's not a staple of meals besides 2 slices if you want a sandwich for lunch. Hard data is shaky but most sources I can find put American per-capita bread consumption at a small fraction of the consumption of somewhere like France. Having far fewer standalone bakeries and far less "good bread" is not so much that people are eating a bunch of worse bread instead - no one's serving sandwich bread with dinner, they're often just not eating that much bread at all.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
asdff 1y ago
It isn't hard if you buy the actual raw ingredients and cook for yourself. Produce is fine. Cuts of meat are fine. You can get plain old beans just fine for your vegetarian needs. It is just people in this country have forgotten how to cook. Grandmother made her own mayonnaise. Mom bought kraft. To you making mayonnaise is a black art since mom never did it, so you also buy kraft. Extend that to most other food products.
ksec 1y ago
I am starting to think if there are any business opportunities to brand "European Standard" Food as Healthy Options in the US.
robocat 1y ago
All the milk I've seen in New Orleans is ultra-pasteurised) to increase its shelflife (in fridge), even expensive organic stuff. I haven't yet looked in speciality groceries. I've just given up on milk while I'm here, because it tastes disgusting (reminds me of " UHT long-life milk sold uncooled in tetrabrick within New Zealand). Apparently normal pasteurised is available from local dairy brands, but I haven't seen any yet. Quality foods in general seem hard to find here - although some of that is because of unfamiliarity - and it isn't cheaper either. I'm looking forward to getting home to better food.

dfxm12 1y ago

They're cheap, easy to find and easy to prepare. With grocery prices going up, what little progress has been made might get reversed, unfortunately. Making America healthy again means making non-ultraprocessed groceries available to everyone & cheaper, and ensuring that working families have time to cook. Pressuring Coke to create a new product with sugar is not going to move the needle.

pchristensen 1y ago
Don't forget non-perishable. If you're already having a hard time affording groceries, it really hurts to throw away wilted veggies or moldy fruit.
- nradov 1y ago
  Canned and frozen vegetables are also non-perishable. While some extremely poor people lack a working freezer or storage space, most consumers can easily use these options.
  - kulahan 1y ago
    Absolutely nothing I've seen anywhere justifies the idea that access to food is the problem. In most cultures, you don't need cooking classes because the food is ingrained into their culture, and recipes are passed down. Americans have a much weaker link to their heritage. You might know a few dishes, but in my experience, absolutely nobody knows how to cook. By cook, I don't mean "can add one box of prepared goods to another box of prepared goods with a can of prepared goods on the side", I mean buying meat, veggies, fruit, and grains and cooking a dish from home, mostly from scratch. edit: 13 million Americans are in food deserts. If the problem were that small, it'd be similar in size to people who are addicted to substances other than alcohol. This is affecting almost everyone. There MUST be another, bigger solution.
    - hvb2 1y ago
      As Gordon Ramsay put it: "Most people don't cook, they heat their food"

Herring 1y ago

For convenience, my rice cooker has been a godsend. I'm basically making homemade chipotle bowls every day.

enraged_camel 1y ago
Rice cooker is great. I also use my Instant Pot a ton. Incredibly convenient and an invaluable time saver.
- apparent 1y ago
  We use our IP to make yogurt (discussed in depth above). Easy to make and when strained, better than any store bought Greek yogurt. Also decent for sous vide. I use a big glass jar instead of plastic bags, which are a health concern.
  - Herring 1y ago
    Have you tried making kefir? It’s much easier and likely better if you’re going for probiotics.
johnrob 1y ago
If you don’t have one, try an Instant Pot which can pressure cook (in addition to rice cooker features). Dry beans can be ready to eat in an hour.
- dswalter 1y ago
  Instant Pot Garbanzo beans/chickpeas with a tiny bit of salt are a favorite in my home. Creamy, savory, and delicious! Cannellini beans are also lovely.
- lokar 1y ago
  Fancy (Asian) rice cookers use pressure
- lapetitejort 1y ago

ArchOversight 1y ago

https://archive.is/eWcpP https://archive.is/eWcpP

benjaminclauss 1y ago
Is it just me or is this super unreadable?
- fusslo 1y ago
  yeah, I think it's one of those annoyingly over stylized articles that animates/loads as you scroll and Archive doesn't preserve the javascript (or whatever) to make it look & work right

fnordpiglet 1y ago

Due to the paywall I couldn’t get beyond the first image claiming convenience. I’ve no idea what the rest says so I’ll speak disconnected from the content and just to the concept. People assume ultra processed came about due to demand side factors but it’s actually more about supply side supply chain management and the scale in size of the US. By processing the food into more constructed ingredients they always enter a state where they’re easy to package and distribute across vast distances in that state. They can then be combined into food that is palatable through additives. Indeed the process disrupts the natural structure and content of the food - but that was necessary to feed everyone at a reasonable price a variety of foods grown across a vast distance at a reasonable price. Obviously this led to demand because the food was more complete and varied than was generally available at the fresh grocer. Convenience was a side effect as well that was well capitalized. These arguments actually hold until pretty recently. Even in my lifetime grocery stores growing up were pretty stark affairs with a few expensive fresh products that you splurged on for a special dinner like thanksgiving. Daily food was basically processed rations with a fancy box. It’s only in my adulthood, and the lifetime of the millennials, that there was really much optionality as supply chains globally and fresh food distribution with widely available refrigerated trucking with ethylene gas storage proliferated, free trade opened, etc. Before all this, in my parents generation, the other option for ultra processed foods was malnutrition and wide spread rickets. It was when we tried to draft for WWII and the majority of rural young men were so malnourished as to be unfit for war that things really changed. To sit today and compare the options of fresh food available and wonder how we got here ignores the reality of how we got here. But we are here so indeed, eat fresh and be happy we have free trade!

Milpotel 1y ago
That's a bit too naive considering how bad food became during the last decade. Formerly perfectly fine products now have artificial ingredients to increase profits.
- fnordpiglet 1y ago
  How is it naive? You were literally unable to eat the foods because they rotted in delivery and refrigeration was so expensive it made fresh foods unaffordable to the consumer. Even then they were not edible because they were not ripened due to the lack of ethylene. I’m not discussing the last decade, in fact in the last decade the availability of fresh food is absurdly better vs say 1930-1995 or so. The article also starts in 1950. We are at a point where we can turn the tide, but the prevalence of fresh food in the store is counter balanced by the fact affordability is decreasing as inflation, restrictions on free trade, and stagnation of lower income takes the fresh foods away as an option. Add into it cultural inertia of 70 years of processed food prevalence as a staple food, you end up in this situation.

ChrisArchitect 1y ago

Gift link: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/10/16/well/eat/ultraprocessed-food-junk-history.html?unlocked_article_code=1.t08.rIoJ.-Yl-sKmq8FEG&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/10/16/well/eat/ultr...

stuffn 1y ago

I grew up with a lot of ultra-processed foods and these days have found several places where I can get good quality food. I am fortunate to live in an area with a decent farmer's market "community" and some bespoke shops. Generally, I've found that mixing farmers market with ethnic markets (for meat) seems to provide significantly better quality than your average chain. I suppose that the article hits on it a bit but a lot of the popular brands were great depression era hits. Most of us grew up on various forms of slop: hamburger helper, velveeta mac n cheese, spam, etc. The common link between everything I ate was it was easy, and allowed you to significantly stretch the meat in a dish. These days, now that we can afford more, it's most likely a matter of simplicity and brand affiliation. When you have 2/3 of an average store stuffed with ultraprocessed crap and even in the remaining 1/3 you have to be careful it's pretty easy to eat poorly. A perfect example would be "wheat" or "rye" bread which is basically the same as white bread with a little extra added. Though, these days, many even major supermarket chains offer reasonably high quality bread.

jeffbee 1y ago

I just opened up www dot amazon dot com and filled my cart with $50 worth of food that will be delivered to my door in a few hours: rice, potatoes, farro, beans, peppers, ginger, onions, garlic frozen peas, frozen carrots, plain low-fat yogurt, chicken thighs, and good bread. I don't want to hear anyone telling me that American capitalism has robbed us of real food. If anything, American capitalism has heaped upon us the cheapest and most convenient selection of food imaginable, but some people just can't stop shoveling down Flamin' Hot Froot Loops.

brazukadev 1y ago
> I don't want to hear anyone telling me that American capitalism has robbed us of real food they didn't rob it, they hid it and put zillions of billboards selling their ultra-proccessed ultra-palatable anything with a huge profit margin.
- vel0city 1y ago
  Almost every grocery store I've been to in the US has either the produce or bakery section right at the front door.
arrozconcosas 1y ago
If you make a system that has 1,000 nudges towards Fruit Loops and hides the healthy thing, then it isn't just an individual choice. Nudges include advertising, availability, addictive ingredients, misleading marketing claims, food engineering, etc. I recommend reading this to get an understanding of how much effort goes into making people make the wrong choices: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinar...
humptybumpty 1y ago
Maybe pricing has something to do with it? Total 27,00€ ($31.57) 1kg potatos, 0,99€ 3pcs bell peppers, 1,03€ (x) 1pcs ginger, 0,90€ (x) 1kg onions, 1,59€ 100g garlic, 1,45€ (x) 500g carrots, 0,89€ 500g frozen peas, 1,09€ 1 can white beans, 1,09€ (x) fresh fancy bread, 3,69€ 400g chicken thighs, 4,99€ 1l plain low-fat yogurt, 2,55€ 1kg rice, 3,79€ (x) 650g ”farro”, 2,95€ (x) imported, not local Typical prices in Finland, which is considered to be expensive European country. Could maybe go down to 20+€ with cheapest options.

Simulacra 1y ago

Relevant "The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food" https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinar...

tptacek 1y ago

This all has very big "uncured bacon" energy to me (if you didn't already know: there's no such thing; vendors of uncured bacon performatively drive the same chemical nitrite reaction using vegetable extracts). For example: yogurt becomes a UPF simply by dint of adding carrageenan, which is on the order of calling dashi a UPF because of the kombu. It's not that there isn't a very legitimate issue underneath all this: packaged, hyperpalatable, low-nutritional-density low-satiety foods are probably a major driver of health problems. It's just that "UPF" isn't the right metric for isolating those foods, and with the wrong metrics you end up in a similar place as California does with the Prop 65 warnings. We went through a similar thing with "pink slime" (transglutaminase preservation techniques). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-a9VDIbZCU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-a9VDIbZCU

supportengineer 1y ago
I only get the bacon that says "No nitrates, no nitrites"
- tptacek 1y ago
  If you're talking about American-style bacon, and it tastes like bacon, there's no such thing. They're just exploiting labeling rules by selecting very specific nitrite sources. Nitrites are what give bacon (and ham) its flavor. <strike>This is before we get to the whole premise of avoiding nitrates. Would you eat a beet? That's a serving of industrial bacon's worth of nitrates right there.</strike> Later (Actually, super bad example, since the concern is nitrosamines which are formed in the presence of proteins. The point about the illegitimacy of nitrite-free bacon stands!)
  - supportengineer 1y ago
    I fucking hate beets. For bacon, what do you think of these? Applegate: https://www.raleys.com/product/10400628/applegate-naturals-hickory-smoked-uncured-sunday-bacon https://www.raleys.com/product/10400628/applegate-naturals-h... Coleman: https://www.raleys.com/product/103101180/coleman-natural-bacon-uncured-smoked-applewood https://www.raleys.com/product/103101180/coleman-natural-bac...

arrozconcosas 1y ago

A really nice brand of healthy foods that are trustworthy and less processed is Primal Kitchen. I have zero affiliation with them, just is a brand I trust. Its so hard to shop for things that are healthy. For example, their Ketchup is just Tomato, Vinegar, Salt, Garlic Powder, Onion Powder, and Spices. No sweetener substitutes needed. https://www.primalkitchen.com/products/organic-unsweetened-ketchup https://www.primalkitchen.com/products/organic-unsweetened-k...

hypertexthero 1y ago

In case it’s useful, some healthy recipes by two people who’ve traveled around the world in a small boat: https://grimgrains.com/site/home.html https://grimgrains.com/site/home.html

talkingtab 1y ago

People in the US are so trained by the food industry, that they do not know what good food is. Yogurt for example. Here is an experiment you can do at home if you want to disbelieve my statement. Step #1 Make good yogurt and eat it. 1. Go buy a quart of milk, full fat. 2. Buy some yogurt culture. Bulgarian preferred. 3. Follow the directions. You need to keep the temp at around 110F, warm water bath, heating pad, hot water bottles, put it in a cooler, whatever. This is one of the best foods there is. Step 2. Go to your grocery store or stores and try to find some yogurt that is as good. You can repeat these steps for other foods. Coffee - roast your own. Cheese. Just go to a gourmet cheese store. Get something that does not come in a plastic bag. Or go to Europe and try real croissants. Everyone in Paris can get real croissants almost anywhere every day. And not to mention real bread - again the plastic bag. We are so used to what is available here that we have come believe it is "food" when really it is just adulterated to have a long shelf life. Sorry, but really just try it.

duped 1y ago
I mean there are things you can reasonably do better than the grocery store but something things are unrealistic. Like "just go to a gourmet cheese store" is not something you can do in most of the country. I live in one of the largest metro areas with quite a few Michelin star and recommended eateries, lovely food culture, and we love our dairy. I think there are two dedicated cheese mongers you can walk into in the entire area, neither are particularly accessible.
- bigstrat2003 1y ago
  I think dedicated cheese mongers are a lot more accessible than you are envisioning based on your experience. I live in Denver, which is a large city but by no means one of the largest in the country. We have no Michelin star restaurants that I know of, we don't have a dairy industry or anything like that. We still have multiple dedicated cheese stores in the area that one can get to. It's not that niche to enjoy good cheese.
  - duped 1y ago

ruralfam 1y ago

Not sure this is a good post, but might be so taking the risk. I am snacking right now on some UPF - my 10% vice. However, my 90% is pretty good. One NOT-UPF staple is steel cut oats that are slow cooked. Very easy, healthy and likely as NOT-UPF as you can get. Recipie: 3 cups steel cut oats (I use Bob's Red Mill Organic), 1+ Qt water, 1 Qt Skim Milk, 1+ Teaspon salt. Combine everything into a suitable pot. Slow cook at 150F for six hours. Stir occasionally. Explore ways to eat. E.g. warm in microwave with some blueberries, and a bit of brown sugar. Stores in the Fridge for a long time. HTH, NSC (+ means "a bit more than")

hexbin010 1y ago
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grvdrm 1y ago
Right there with you but in way less time w pressure cooker.

Havoc 1y ago

Currently trying to track down a something I'm sensitive/allergic to and this is where I started - a wide but pretty bland whole foods diet. Theory being that the issue is one of the billion colourants/flavourants/preservatives & cooking from scratch cuts most of them. Too early to confidently tell (4 days in)...but the vibes sure feel promising

morgango 1y ago

That was incredibly difficult to read. Text would be nice.

robinsoncrusue 1y ago

My ancestors are from Asia. Over there, a saying goes something like this if I can translate it without the color of the language: "Give a man a solid breakfast and he will not make noise around the kitchen rest of the day". Even less colorful way to say it is if you want to be healthy, start with a healthy breakfast. As much as there are all the science around low carb diet and optimizing calories, macros and what not, I think there are some wisdom to it in the long game view. Someone that had a good nutritious breakfast (you will notice every major culture has its variant of breakfast akin to "English breakfast"), would have less difficulty resisting food with empty calories and doing frequent snacking. Contrary, if you had packaged "cereal" with questionable ingredients and nutrition density, no wonder by 11 you will feel the need to snack. And then if you happen to have a lunch in one of the typical take out restaurants optimized for cost at the expense of quality, a 3pm snacking is more likely than not. By the end of the day, you had racked up calories intake with bunch of empty calories from those snacking episodes that could be entirely prevented with a solid dense breakfast.

stonemetal12 1y ago
The American version "Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" started as a breakfast cereal marketing line, not an endorsement for eating an "English breakfast". I will take the science over old wives tales and marketing bs any day. Even if the science is as poorly done as most nutrition science is.
- jerlam 1y ago
  I always thought the emphasis on breakfast originated in cultures or times where it would be followed by a long day of manual labor. This also ignores that most European countries emphasize breakfast even less than Americans, and that the British (home of the English breakfast) have a lower life expectancy than most of their western European peers (but not as low as Americans).
  - IAmBroom 1y ago
    Both might be true, but the saying about "most important meal of the day" was genuinely marketing lies.

pessimizer 1y ago

Why is someone so determined to force this "ultraprocessed foods" meme? Is it just so they can get a government definition of "ultraprocessed foods" that somehow doesn't include foods that are 1/3 teflon by weight? There are plenty of specific processes that are extremely questionable and probably dangerous. Europe bans a lot of them, or to be fair almost everybody bans them but the US. But somehow, when the references to food additives and processes get specific, outlets like the NYT start using phrases that include "right-wing," "corners of the internet," "rant," "outburst," "conspiracy theories," "...but the science actually says...," "the consensus," "...that the vast majority of scientists agree to be safe..." etc... Also, dangerous additives and processes are an entirely different question than talking about people eating fatty, sugary, salty foods because they like them. They're on the verge of turning "ultraprocessed foods" into a moral crusade against the tastes of the lumpen, which their upper-middle class audience loves because it allows them to feel superior (and deserving.) Also, preservatives are good. They make food cheaper and make it last longer. I want dangerous preservatives banned.

NicuCalcea 1y ago
I didn't read any of the points you're arguing against in the article.
IAmBroom 1y ago
This "meme" has been scientifically studied. Carefully defining a term so that the industry can't simply sidestep it ("no added sugar! - if you don't count apple juice) is difficult.

deleted 1y ago

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sizzle 1y ago

For anyone having gastrointestinal issues from processed foods in America, I implore you to take a trip to the EU and experience the lack of digestive issues their foods have on your gut. It really changed my relationship with food knowing that it’s not my gut malfunctioning but stems from what I’m putting in me.

scotty79 1y ago

Do you know of any research showing that ultra-processed food in general is bad? The only thing I found was comparing ultra-processed food with other food with the same nutritional value that concluded that people get fatter on UPF because they eat more of it. The only conclusion I could draw from it is that UPF is just tastier. (or hyper palatable if you want to make it sound more sinister)

IAmBroom 1y ago
Not to be glib, but the answer to your question is as simple as https://www.google.com/search?q=research+showing+that+ultra-processed+food+in+general+is+bad https://www.google.com/search?q=research+showing+that+ultra-... Spoiler: it increases your chance of cancer and other mortality issues. And makes you fat.
- scotty79 1y ago
  Being fat is a known cancer risk and risk for other issues. Does UPF add anything to that? Or is the only charge against it that it's easy to eat more of it? If so basically if you can keep your weight in check you can eat any amount of UPF without any adverse effects, right?