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Apparently, in Europe, the box will not contain a charger [1]. This is absolutely mind-blowing to me. edit: suggested retail price also dropped with EUR 100. M

Apparently, in Europe, the box will not contain a charger [1]. This is absolutely mind-blowing to me. edit: suggested retail price also dropped with EUR 100. Mind is less blown now. It seems like a good thing in fact. edit2: in Belgium, the combined price of the 70W adapter and 2m USB-C to MagSafe is EUR 120. [1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-macbook-pro-does-not-include-a-charger-in-the-box-in-europe.2469168/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-macbook-pro-does-no...

yohannparis 1y ago
I think it's awesome. I have way to many chargers, specially USB-C, 5, 10, 20, 35, 70, and 95W all over the house and office. If you need one, just shell the extra $100 that corresponds to your needs.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
chvid 1y ago
My mbp came with a 140w charger - which I never use.
bombcar 1y ago
Dropping the price was nice. They could have gotten away with a slight reduction in price, and a coupon inside to send away for a "free" charger, and then bask in the millions who couldn't be bothered to do it.
deleted 1y ago
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scosman 1y ago
Don't forget the environmental impact of a smaller box. The box will probably be less than half as thick, doubling shipping efficiency. These are air freight, so the CO2 impact is not negligible. I'll take the discount and use one of my 12 existing USB-C chargers.
- leshenka 1y ago
  There are more 90W-capable USB-C chargers in my home than there are laptops. I certainly don't need another one. Honestly I'd be fine for them to just remove the box altogether and use paper envelope like Steve Jobs did once.
- coldtea 1y ago
  >Don't forget the environmental impact of a smaller box Compared to the marginal environmental impact to source materials, build hardware and parts, assemble, ship, stock, and transport to customer each unit, the box could be 10x larger and it wouldn't make a dent.
  - leakycap 1y ago
    > ship ... the box could be 10x larger and it wouldn't make a dent This is not how shipping works. A larger box, even by 1 inch on any direction, absolutely makes a huge difference when shipping in manufacturing quantities. Let's not pretend physical volume doesn't exist just to make an argument. 10 planes flying with MacBooks == much different than 1 plane (in other words, when you 10x the size of something, as you suggest, it does actually have a huge impact)
    - coldtea 1y ago
      The point being made is "it's not the paper fr the box that's the issue". A smaller box allows more to be carried. But if we go that route, it's trivial to ship them without any box and box them domestically - and that's a 2-3x volume reduction right there.
      - leakycap 1y ago
        > it's trivial to ship them without any box and box them domestically Ah yeah I can't imagine any scenario where this could go wrong Like man in the middle attacks Replacement/fake products ... or you know, damage? Boxes provide... protection. > it's trivial Anytime you catch yourself thinking something is trivial, you're probably trivializing it (aka think about it more and you'll probably be able to think of a dozen more reasons packaging products is the norm)
Aurornis 1y ago
Removing the charger is a good move, in my opinion. USB-C chargers are everywhere now. Monitors with USB-C or Thunderbolt inputs will charge your laptop, too. I bought a monitor that charges over the USB-C cable and I haven’t use the charger that came with the laptop in years because I have a smaller travel charger that I prefer for trips anyway. You don’t have to buy the premium Apple charger and cable. There are many cheap options. I already have a box of powerful USB-C chargers I don’t use. I don’t need yet another one to add to the pile.
- SkyPuncher 1y ago
  I agree. I currently have 2 or 3 brand spanking new chargers sitting in the orginal Mac box. On the go, I've bought a small GaN with multiple ports. At home, I already have all of my desks wired up with a Usb-c charger.
  - semi-extrinsic 1y ago
    Adding to the anecdata, the magsafe charger for my M1 MBP has been used a grand total of two times in five years.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  The battery is good enough that I often travel with just my phone charger. I can plug the laptop in at night when the slow charge rate isn't a hindrance and be fine with the all day battery life
  - jazzyjackson 1y ago
    I was really surprised to find that the MacBook didn't mind charging from the 20W phone brick
    - dijit 1y ago
      it will even charge with the old USB-A brick. Takes like 10 hours and isn't officially supported I think, but it does work.
lysace 1y ago
Base 14" MBP M5 prices without VAT or sales taxes: Germany: 1758 USD (1512 EUR) without charger. US: 1599 USD with 70W charger. This feels like is an insult.
lm28469 1y ago
The real crime is that it starts at 1799 euros, which is $2100, vs $1599 in the US, I know US prices are before tax but even with 20% VAT you're far off...
- reactordev 1y ago
  Tariffs... Someone has to pay them and it sure isn't Apple.
  - Moto7451 1y ago
    I think you read him backwards. It’s still cheaper in the US. Tariffs certainly exist in Europe but I’m unaware of any on these laptops and US Tariffs on goods from China don’t apply to goods from China to anywhere else that isn’t the US.
    - theodric 1y ago
      It should rather be "public option healthcare, social safety nets, and a robust surveillance state aren't going to pay for themselves"
  - pigeonhole123 1y ago
    It's much cheaper in the US
    - forgotoldacc 1y ago
      I have a strong feeling Apple is raising prices elsewhere in order to avoid pissing off the notoriously sensitive consumers in America. Sony is doing similar things with making the PlayStation expensive everywhere to make it affordable for Americans. The world is essentially subsidizing the tariffs for Americans. People in other countries will get pissed but ultimately suck it up and buy a product. People in America will take it as a personal offense due to the current Maoist-style cult of personality, and you'll get death threats and videos of them shooting your products posted onto social media. Just look at what happened to that beer company. No such thing would happen in Germany.
deleted 1y ago
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hexbin010 1y ago
Bizarrely you can only select a new adapter during the configuration if you select 24GB RAM or higher Prices are about 65 EUR for a 70W (tested DE + CH) The EU law states they must provide an SKU without an adapter - i.e. they're still allowed to offer one with a power adapter.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
tobi_bsf 1y ago
Not sure about that. I never use my official charger and the magsafe cable but man, how did we arrive here. Some things just belong to a laptop.
giancarlostoro 1y ago
> Apparently, in Europe, the box will not contain a charger [1]. This is absolutely mind-blowing to me. Same, for a laptop??? Really? Wild. You can charge these with USB-C chargers too.
handsclean 1y ago
Many people got played on the charger thing. It’s never free, it’s a mandatory bundle. But companies only put one line item on the receipt, never refer to the primary component separately but instead conflate its name and idea with the bundle, and when forced to de-bundle (usually) bump the primary component’s price to compensate, and people buy it: “the EU took away my charger!” Chargers don’t change quickly. If I lost my charger from 2019, the ideal replacement in 2025 would be literally exactly the same model—and mine still works like new and looks good. I have nothing to gain from buying a new charger. We should be cheering the EU for ending an abuse that the US has long failed to. Also, it still bundles a USB-C to MagSafe 3 cable.
- crazygringo 1y ago
  I mean, every laptop needs a charger. If you sell your old laptop when you buy a new one, you generally sell it with old charger. And different Apple laptops take chargers of different maximum watts (they're compatible but not optimal), so they're not all the same anyways. There's a reason they generally make sense to bundle. Especially with laptop chargers, which provide a whole lot more power than some random little USB-C charger you might have. Sometimes letting the free market decide actually gives customers what they want and find most useful.
  - handsclean 1y ago
    > If you sell your old laptop when you buy a new one, you generally sell it with old charger. Sounds like a symptom of incompatibility. I’ve only ever included the charger when it was specific to the laptop. > And different Apple laptops take chargers of different maximum watts (they're compatible but not optimal), so they're not all the same anyways. Chargers automatically provide whatever power level is needed, up to their max, and charging power isn’t the steady tick upward we’re used to elsewhere. The MacBook Pro did get a faster charger a few years ago, relegating old ones to that “compatible but not optimal” state, but meanwhile MacBook Air chargers got slower, and most releases didn’t change the charger. Certainly there are sometimes benefits to buying a new charger, but it happens much less often than new device purchases, and even when there are benefits purchases should still be the customer’s choice. > Sometimes letting the free market decide actually gives customers what they want and find most useful. I agree, but “free market” doesn’t mean lawlessness, it means an actual market that’s actually free. Actual market: companies compete on economics, not e.g. violence or leverage over consumers. Actually free: consumers freely choose between available options. Bundling is a very classic example of an attempt to circumvent free market economics, using the greater importance of one choice to dictate a second choice.

yohannparis 1y ago

I think it's awesome. I have way to many chargers, specially USB-C, 5, 10, 20, 35, 70, and 95W all over the house and office. If you need one, just shell the extra $100 that corresponds to your needs.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

chvid 1y ago

My mbp came with a 140w charger - which I never use.

bombcar 1y ago

Dropping the price was nice. They could have gotten away with a slight reduction in price, and a coupon inside to send away for a "free" charger, and then bask in the millions who couldn't be bothered to do it.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

scosman 1y ago

Don't forget the environmental impact of a smaller box. The box will probably be less than half as thick, doubling shipping efficiency. These are air freight, so the CO2 impact is not negligible. I'll take the discount and use one of my 12 existing USB-C chargers.

leshenka 1y ago
There are more 90W-capable USB-C chargers in my home than there are laptops. I certainly don't need another one. Honestly I'd be fine for them to just remove the box altogether and use paper envelope like Steve Jobs did once.
coldtea 1y ago
>Don't forget the environmental impact of a smaller box Compared to the marginal environmental impact to source materials, build hardware and parts, assemble, ship, stock, and transport to customer each unit, the box could be 10x larger and it wouldn't make a dent.
- leakycap 1y ago
  > ship ... the box could be 10x larger and it wouldn't make a dent This is not how shipping works. A larger box, even by 1 inch on any direction, absolutely makes a huge difference when shipping in manufacturing quantities. Let's not pretend physical volume doesn't exist just to make an argument. 10 planes flying with MacBooks == much different than 1 plane (in other words, when you 10x the size of something, as you suggest, it does actually have a huge impact)
  - coldtea 1y ago
    The point being made is "it's not the paper fr the box that's the issue". A smaller box allows more to be carried. But if we go that route, it's trivial to ship them without any box and box them domestically - and that's a 2-3x volume reduction right there.
    - leakycap 1y ago
      > it's trivial to ship them without any box and box them domestically Ah yeah I can't imagine any scenario where this could go wrong Like man in the middle attacks Replacement/fake products ... or you know, damage? Boxes provide... protection. > it's trivial Anytime you catch yourself thinking something is trivial, you're probably trivializing it (aka think about it more and you'll probably be able to think of a dozen more reasons packaging products is the norm)

Aurornis 1y ago

Removing the charger is a good move, in my opinion. USB-C chargers are everywhere now. Monitors with USB-C or Thunderbolt inputs will charge your laptop, too. I bought a monitor that charges over the USB-C cable and I haven’t use the charger that came with the laptop in years because I have a smaller travel charger that I prefer for trips anyway. You don’t have to buy the premium Apple charger and cable. There are many cheap options. I already have a box of powerful USB-C chargers I don’t use. I don’t need yet another one to add to the pile.

SkyPuncher 1y ago
I agree. I currently have 2 or 3 brand spanking new chargers sitting in the orginal Mac box. On the go, I've bought a small GaN with multiple ports. At home, I already have all of my desks wired up with a Usb-c charger.
- semi-extrinsic 1y ago
  Adding to the anecdata, the magsafe charger for my M1 MBP has been used a grand total of two times in five years.
ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
The battery is good enough that I often travel with just my phone charger. I can plug the laptop in at night when the slow charge rate isn't a hindrance and be fine with the all day battery life
- jazzyjackson 1y ago
  I was really surprised to find that the MacBook didn't mind charging from the 20W phone brick
  - dijit 1y ago
    it will even charge with the old USB-A brick. Takes like 10 hours and isn't officially supported I think, but it does work.

lysace 1y ago

Base 14" MBP M5 prices without VAT or sales taxes: Germany: 1758 USD (1512 EUR) without charger. US: 1599 USD with 70W charger. This feels like is an insult.

lm28469 1y ago

The real crime is that it starts at 1799 euros, which is $2100, vs $1599 in the US, I know US prices are before tax but even with 20% VAT you're far off...

reactordev 1y ago
Tariffs... Someone has to pay them and it sure isn't Apple.
- Moto7451 1y ago
  I think you read him backwards. It’s still cheaper in the US. Tariffs certainly exist in Europe but I’m unaware of any on these laptops and US Tariffs on goods from China don’t apply to goods from China to anywhere else that isn’t the US.
  - theodric 1y ago
    It should rather be "public option healthcare, social safety nets, and a robust surveillance state aren't going to pay for themselves"
- pigeonhole123 1y ago
  It's much cheaper in the US
  - forgotoldacc 1y ago
    I have a strong feeling Apple is raising prices elsewhere in order to avoid pissing off the notoriously sensitive consumers in America. Sony is doing similar things with making the PlayStation expensive everywhere to make it affordable for Americans. The world is essentially subsidizing the tariffs for Americans. People in other countries will get pissed but ultimately suck it up and buy a product. People in America will take it as a personal offense due to the current Maoist-style cult of personality, and you'll get death threats and videos of them shooting your products posted onto social media. Just look at what happened to that beer company. No such thing would happen in Germany.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

hexbin010 1y ago

Bizarrely you can only select a new adapter during the configuration if you select 24GB RAM or higher Prices are about 65 EUR for a 70W (tested DE + CH) The EU law states they must provide an SKU without an adapter - i.e. they're still allowed to offer one with a power adapter.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

tobi_bsf 1y ago

Not sure about that. I never use my official charger and the magsafe cable but man, how did we arrive here. Some things just belong to a laptop.

giancarlostoro 1y ago

> Apparently, in Europe, the box will not contain a charger [1]. This is absolutely mind-blowing to me. Same, for a laptop??? Really? Wild. You can charge these with USB-C chargers too.

handsclean 1y ago

Many people got played on the charger thing. It’s never free, it’s a mandatory bundle. But companies only put one line item on the receipt, never refer to the primary component separately but instead conflate its name and idea with the bundle, and when forced to de-bundle (usually) bump the primary component’s price to compensate, and people buy it: “the EU took away my charger!” Chargers don’t change quickly. If I lost my charger from 2019, the ideal replacement in 2025 would be literally exactly the same model—and mine still works like new and looks good. I have nothing to gain from buying a new charger. We should be cheering the EU for ending an abuse that the US has long failed to. Also, it still bundles a USB-C to MagSafe 3 cable.

crazygringo 1y ago
I mean, every laptop needs a charger. If you sell your old laptop when you buy a new one, you generally sell it with old charger. And different Apple laptops take chargers of different maximum watts (they're compatible but not optimal), so they're not all the same anyways. There's a reason they generally make sense to bundle. Especially with laptop chargers, which provide a whole lot more power than some random little USB-C charger you might have. Sometimes letting the free market decide actually gives customers what they want and find most useful.
- handsclean 1y ago
  > If you sell your old laptop when you buy a new one, you generally sell it with old charger. Sounds like a symptom of incompatibility. I’ve only ever included the charger when it was specific to the laptop. > And different Apple laptops take chargers of different maximum watts (they're compatible but not optimal), so they're not all the same anyways. Chargers automatically provide whatever power level is needed, up to their max, and charging power isn’t the steady tick upward we’re used to elsewhere. The MacBook Pro did get a faster charger a few years ago, relegating old ones to that “compatible but not optimal” state, but meanwhile MacBook Air chargers got slower, and most releases didn’t change the charger. Certainly there are sometimes benefits to buying a new charger, but it happens much less often than new device purchases, and even when there are benefits purchases should still be the customer’s choice. > Sometimes letting the free market decide actually gives customers what they want and find most useful. I agree, but “free market” doesn’t mean lawlessness, it means an actual market that’s actually free. Actual market: companies compete on economics, not e.g. violence or leverage over consumers. Actually free: consumers freely choose between available options. Bundling is a very classic example of an attempt to circumvent free market economics, using the greater importance of one choice to dictate a second choice.