9 ms·
Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]
- themafia 1y agoNazi Germany built it's regime through direct control of the media and censorship of anyone or any idea that challenged their ideology. I'm not sure propaganda that ignores the power of propaganda is a great idea.
- Terr_ 1y agoAh, but how exactly did the Nazis reach that point when they didn't have that capability? Perhaps... the things in the video? Compare: "This video on pulling weeds is useless, because after the tree has grown it has a mighty root-system."
- themafia 1y ago> Ah, but how exactly did the Nazis reach that point when they didn't have that capability? The economic crises of the 20s and 30s. This is very well documented. > Perhaps... the things in the video? Speeches on street corners? I find that notion absurd. I find the presentation incredibly ignorant and manipulative.
- wredcoll 1y agoYou find the idea that nazis increased their effective political power by giving speeches... absurd? Really? Why?
- pyuser583 1y agoThere hasn't been great scholarship on the buildup of Fascism - or at least there are some big missing pieces. So many records were destroyed, and until very recently, propaganda was still sacrosanct. In Communist countries, Fascism had to be Capitalist reaction to working class solidarity. In Western Countries, there was more freedom, but there was a strong stigma against any analysis that violated Atlanticist principals. Hannah Arendt's "Eichmann in Jerusalem" raised too much controversy for claiming Eichmann was just a joiner, not hateful. Until recently it wasn't just propaganda, but a basic human decency not to ask certain questions too loudly while the survivors of the Holocaust were still alive, and their persecutors lived unpunished. For example, there's little willingness (in the West) to discuss the role Russian emigres played in supporting Fascism? They were obviously being opportunistic, as were Ukrainians and Finns. I learned very recently that in late November 1918, weeks after World War I ended, the British told the Germans they could expand Eastward, rearming if necessary, to prevent the Bolsheviks from advancing. The Germans had already disarmed, and no longer had functional militaries. But they were able to raise self-sustained militias that moved into parts of Poland and Lithuania. Later on, Nazi propaganda played up this fact, while Allied propgandists chose to ignore it. It likely had a role in convincing Germans they had a "natural" claim to East Europe. Looking at the news, the German army recently held marches in these places, as a sign of support for NATO against the Russians.
- chb 1y ago[flagged]
- DeepYogurt 1y agoMaking media != direct control of the media
- themafia 1y agoNazi Party == direct control of the media. Both our statements are true. What is the ultimate point of burning books? Does it represent the manufacture of media or the control of it?
- Tepix 1y agoThese days there is social media. Controlled by whom? A handful of billionaires.
- laidoffamazon 1y agoWe’ve gone from CCP control of the media spigot to pro-US regime billionaires controlling it. One step forward and another step back.
- christophilus 1y agoI mean, the previous administration famously pulled strings across Twitter and Facebook to demote right wing media outlets on those platforms. This kind of crap isn’t new, and needs to stop.
- laidoffamazon 1y agoNot what happened, not in the same universe
- wredcoll 1y agoI mean, no they didn't and these kind of lies need to stop.
- jibal 1y agoThat didn't happen. In fact Trump was President when Joe Biden was supposedly doing this according to Musk's Twittergate campaign, which was pure propaganda. (The right's explanation of this, when they even bother, was that the government was a bunch of deep state leftists.)
- christophilus 1y agohttps://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-admin-pressured-fb-to-suppress-daily-wire-content-push-users-to-legacy-outlets-newly-released-docs https://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-admin-pressured-fb-to-s... https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/google-admits-censorship-under-biden-promises-end-bans-youtube-accounts https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/google-admi... I don’t know if anyone will accept those sources. They’re the first two I found when looking for it. It could be misleading. The daily wire is obviously incentivized to report bad things about the Biden admin. But, I remember reading similar reports from a variety of sources a few years back, and could probably track those down if it’s helpful.
- zaik 1y agoWhat has this to do with one another? This video doesn't advocate for censorship of the media.
- themafia 1y agoThe public square is a recognized American institution for political change and messaging. The first amendment covers way more than freedom of the press. This video, to me, seems to deride it.
- rented_mule 1y ago> This video, to me, seems to deride it. I don't see any derision of the first amendment or of the public square (not sure which you were referring to as "it" in your last sentence). When we exercise our freedom of expression, we have zero guarantee that we will be listened to, believed, or respected. The derision I see in this video is directed at visceral belief in whoever is shouting in the public square, especially when their message is so clearly divisive. The discussion between the Freemason and the naturalized citizen is itself a fine example of free expression in the public square.
- QuadmasterXLII 1y agoI don’t quite follow- could you spell out your argument?
- themafia 1y agoThis film is an attempt to ignore the economic causes of the war and entirely pin them on the population of Germany. This film mostly seeks to reduce the power of American public participation and labor organization by inferring that anyone who engages in the necessary steps to achieve them must be a type of "proto Nazi" to be ignored or feared.
- christophilus 1y agoDunno. My takeaway was that race baiting and religious bigotry aren’t good for the country, no matter if the party of your choice is the one doing it.
- mempko 1y agoThis is important for everyone here to watch. A divided house does not stand, and if you haven't noticed, it's getting more divided every day. Don't be a sucker, don't let them divide us. For perspective, we now have masked agents roaming the streets kidnapping people in broad daylight. In the United States. Think about how fast this came. EDIT: Why not have a conversation instead of downvoting. What did I say is wrong?
- VoodooJuJu 1y ago[dead]
- jorblumesea 1y agothe people who need to watch this aren't likely on HN or critically thinking about any of this.
- mempko 1y agoThe people who need to watch this are precisely the ones on HN, because we have outsized money and power. Keep in mind it was the tech elite that helped elect Trump. Some of them are here and will see this. Lets see how long until this post is flagged...
- brokegrammer 1y agoThe guy speaking at 3:35 reminds me of a recent blog post by a certain tech celebrity, where he was recalling his recent visit to London and was unhappy to find less white people that he remembered from his previous visit. History repeats itself.
- mempko 1y agoMind providing a link to the blog post?
- pchristensen 1y agoI believe it's this one: https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- mlrtime 1y agoDidn't read the whole think but a search for "white" didn't find anything.
- mempko 1y agoI believe "native brit" is what you are looking for
- rootusrootus 1y agoA complaint from a foreigner who wanted to move to London, who lost interest because there are now too many foreigners. Alright then.
- 1y ago
- cadamsdotcom 1y agoAwesome video. So much great content is so easily accessible today. The challenge is discovery! Grateful HN is a quality “feed” - way better than all the algorithmic feeds.. If something as curated as HN existed & appealed to the masses - even if it was ad funded! - we could live in a different world.
- mempko 1y ago[flagged]
- cadamsdotcom 1y agoDid you lose faith in humanity gradually or all at once? :P
- Grosvenor 1y agoSame as divorce, or bankruptcy. Gradually, then all at once.
- jsheard 1y agoThe post did dive but it managed to cling to the frontpage. https://hnrankings.info/45573025/ https://hnrankings.info/45573025/ My condolences for your hat.
- tears-in-rain 1y agoso, we can agree that will be fedora?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- jibal 1y agoI've seen this video several times in the past, and it wasn't via HN.
- asveikau 1y agoI've been thinking about this video for a few months now. I've been telling people to "not be a sucker" referencing it. I haven't re-watched in a few years, though.
- neilv 1y agoI love that this was US propaganda at one point. The US always has failings, but this message is something we can be proud of.
- swed420 1y agoExcept for the endorsement of littering, which fit the time period. It would be decades before they wheeled out a crying native american on TV to make people feel guilty about the matter(s).
- kelseyfrog 1y agoItalian*
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- mulmen 1y agoLittering? Did I miss something?
- PeterisP 1y agoThe "Keep America Beautiful" ad campaign with a Native American character (played by an Italian actor?) who's sad about the polluted environment.
- 113 1y agoIs it still true that Americans find it hard to see how this is very clearly propaganda? Yes, it's anti-Nazi but it's still has very obvious problems.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y agoWhat problems?
- behnamoh 1y ago[flagged]
- bryan2 1y agoI think you’re conflating intuitional alarms Gavin de Becker style with treating people as individuals which is two very different things. Racism is about our society treating people of color fairly whereas the other is about maintaining healthy boundaries and respecting your intuition. I think this is a nuclear bad not only because I think it excuses bad behavior but also because I think it’s just intellectually lazy. If I’m misinterpreting you please let me know because I hope I’m mistaken.
- vacuity 1y agoI agree with your general premise, in that there are bad actors, and appearance is a powerful classifier, so identifying potential bad actors by appearance is genuinely useful. I think there are many caveats in practice, such as: How do I demonstrate that I arrived at a conclusion reasonably, with data? How do I calibrate my probabilities, instead of a binary "safe or unsafe"? How do I keep from overanalyzing appearance and making incorrect perceptions? I think the primary sign of danger in your example is being in a dark alley. Moreover, learning danger where there is danger is valuable, but so is unlearning danger where there isn't danger. And then there are the errors of learning danger where there isn't danger, and unlearning danger where there is danger. So, I take your point broadly, but there are many demons this way.
- submerge 1y agoTo turn it around, you should assume anyone in the dark alley is potentially dangerous, and not allow biases or racism to cause you to lower your guard to someone who may end up stabbing you.
- solarmist 1y agoI get it and it does make sense. Humans always consider the unfamiliar dangerous by default, but I believe it's deeper and simpler than the arguments you present. This is not a strictly human trait. Anthropologists are pretty sure we received this trait from our primate ancestors. It evolved out of family groups/tribalism. Also, a large part of our brains are safety mechanisms. Many features are directed at keeping us alive which is why so many of our what if scenarios are about the worst happening. In very tribal environments anyone not in your in-group is considered unsafe even if they look exactly like you (i.e. a tribe from 10 km away). But the thing that has made humans the most successful species on Earth is our ability to override this behavior to cooperate at larger and larger scales.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y agoI love this one. Relevant today. Divisive nonsense belongs in the garbage.
- Urthesucker 1y ago[flagged]
- doitLP 1y agoDate must be wrong, because it mentions the end of the war and D-Day. Per this date was 1947: https://archive.org/details/DontBeaS1947 https://archive.org/details/DontBeaS1947
- zaik 1y agoIt could refer to the production date: > It was said to have been produced in 1945, and Paramount Pictures allowed showings for the public "without profit" in 1946. 21st century sources describe a 1943 production and 1947 release instead of 1945 and 1946. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Be_a_Sucker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Be_a_Sucker
- mogoh 1y agoYouTube description says: > This item was produced or created: 1945
- evanjrowley 1y agoShould be required watching in public school history classes.
- Urthesucker 1y ago[flagged]
- jrowen 1y agoI was watching a clip from the The Lost World (1925) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chwzrwHnCtk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chwzrwHnCtk] the other day. I was struck by the silly (to my ears) orchestral fanfare scoring such a dramatic scene, and the fact that almost all of the men are wearing nearly identical outfits. It's still pretty much the same 20 years later in this video. The timbre of the voice of the narrator is another thing, so universal in media from that time and comically foreign today.
- potato3732842 1y agoTheir outfits aren't nearly identical, they only look that way to us because we weren't there and don't know the details. It's no different than how classic cars all look close to the same but someone who was there can just tell you at first glance "that one's a <brand>, that one's the top trim, and so on".
- jrowen 1y agoDefinitely but would you disagree that there is homogeneity to it that would be out of place in say a NYC street scene today? Look up pictures of Straw Hat Day. Just interesting to me given the wide world of fashion choices and styles that developed soon after.
- quuxplusone 1y agoNote that the orchestral score on that YouTube video was composed in 2016 by Robert Israel. The original film had no recorded sound; it would have been accompanied on the piano (or, if lucky, pipe organ). If you get a chance to see a silent film in the theater with live music, don't pass up that chance! I recently went to see "The General" (1926) with semi-improvised music by pianist Ben Model,[1] and (obviously) recommend the experience. [1] - https://www.moma.org/magazine/articles/23 https://www.moma.org/magazine/articles/23
- jrowen 1y agoThat is interesting that it was actually composed recently, of course he was going for period-accurate and that seems to be his thing. But it's just fascinating to me, the sort of social norms around, and the mood or feelings that are evoked by, that kind of music, compared to a modern "serious" monster movie like Cloverfield or something (of course silent vs. talkie is a bit apples-to-oranges but it just feels culturally worlds apart even though they're kind of going for the same thing).
- twothreeone 1y agoOne very interesting aspect is how the Churches are portrayed as "seeking truth" and speaking out in this piece. In the US today it is reversed - in large part due to Baptists. But even in Nazi Germany the relationship between the Church and Hitler was much more complicated than portrayed. For instance, many Catholics supported the NSDAP.
- gtirloni 1y agoIt's the same with Trump. He doesn't care about religion but he'll say and behave in certain ones sometimes to appease the religious base (only until they fall for his scam).
- Aeroi 1y agolove this
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- _ink_ 1y agoUnfortunately we are more divided then ever. The algorithms place each of use in its own little echo chamber. And micro targeting makes it easy for people with money to control what each of us is fed in their bubble. Stay united. Don't give up over their perceived power. Don't be a sucker. Easier said, then done.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoAlgorithms don’t cause people to be racist and sexist. Their own insecurities cause them to be resort to tribalism.
- mlrtime 1y agoIs that all you think this is about, being racist and sexist? I agree with OP, this video shows how easy it can be a sucker. There are two parts to it, one is being the sucker, the other is the specific content and time. OP is pointing out that the sucker is in every echo chamber because these chambers get filtered to only allow extreme viewpoints thrive.
- rootusrootus 1y agoIt would be easier to accept a both-sides argument if there were good examples and counter-examples for what opposing viewpoints are equally reprehensible.
- 1y ago
- potato3732842 1y agoThe real disservice of this sort of this sort of stuff is how flagrantly obvious they make the bad guy. Yeah, everyone can identify the idiot spouting off about skin color and engaging in an un-obfuscated textbook exercise in divide and conquer as probably not worth listening to. Patting yourself on the back becase you can identify it when it's flagrantly obvious is counterproductive. The guy in the internet comment section or the Youtube talking head, subtly peddling inequality under the law under the guise of carrot and stick government policy games, he's the real evil. Because letting him guide you at every turn is what incrementally builds the cultural, ideological, political and procedural situation in which it's possible for the "comic book evil" type things to be possible.
- 30minAdayHN 1y agoI completely agree with you. Though slightly tangential, what you called out also happens in startups and is a big learning for me. I wanted to fail fast. I thought I got it when read in a blog or a book. Similarly, building an MVP - feels amazing and I thought I understood it. Like you called out, many of the books, blogs or podcasts will present them in a flagrantly obvious way. As a reader, we often think that we understood it. But in reality, these are very subtle. Understanding that what you are experiencing is a failure or what you are building is feature bloat is extremely hard. These aren't obvious moments. I call these micro signals. The skill is in fact developing the thinking muscle to pick on these micro signals and act on them. Probably most of the "self help" fall in this category - very obvious when reading, but will fail to identify in reality. Internalizing is about understanding how these would manifest in reality (and be aware that these will be very very tiny signals)
- beloch 1y agoThe problem is that people are still falling for exactly the same sort of comic-book evil even though it's every bit as obvious. e.g. Haitian's eating dogs, illegal immigrants scamming medical services, stealing high-paying jobs, etc.. A high percentage of people completely lack what Carl Sagan would call a "Baloney detection kit", and the current purveyors of baloney like it that way. That's why they're anti-science and anti-education. I suspect we're seeing WWII anti-Nazi propaganda being promoted all over social media in an attempt to shock people into a moment of introspection. Someone watching this propaganda piece today doesn't even have to make substitutions. The man on a street-corner ranting about immigrants could be a talking head on certain current "news" programs. However, the shock relies on the viewer's perception of Nazi's as irredeemably evil. Humans forget, and that happens pretty reliably when something passes out of living memory. There are precious few people left with first-hand memories of Nazi evil or who can remember fighting Hitler. For most living people, Nazi's are just comic-book and Hollywood villains. Comparing oneself to the people in this propaganda reel today undoubtedly has less impact than it did fifty years ago, and that impact will continue to fade. Society in certain countries is now clearly at the stage where painful lessons need to be relearned.
- like_any_other 1y ago[flagged]
- mindslight 1y agoFound the sucker. What seems to have escaped you is that most people have more to their identity than simply their race.
- haritha-j 1y agoGee it couldn't possibly be because us minorities are made to feel aware of our skin colour everytime we go out in the streets and see someone putting up an English flag, or preach about how their city has too many people that look like us, which means we're hyper aware of our race and it defines our perspective of ourselves. If racism didn't exist, then being asian wouldn't really form an important part of how i think about myself.
- like_any_other 1y ago> minorities The UK has a population of 55 million whites. Bangladesh has a population of 171 million, Pakistan has 241 million, India has 1.4 billion, and China also has 1.4 billion. In the UK, there are more Bangladeshi alone than there are whites (all whites, not just British) in Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, and China, combined. Yet they are "minorities", while the people that will soon become outnumbered by foreigners in their own country [1] are the "majority". The reason whites are unaware is because they are propagandized 24/7 to be unaware (including by their own state [2]), while you are encouraged. [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/03/white-british-minority-in-40-years-report-claims/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/03/white-british-mi... [2] Moffat even talks about the idea he mentions above — the excuse of “historical accuracy” that some people often give to justify an all-white cast — “[W]e’ve kind of got to tell a lie: we’ll go back into history and there will be black people where, historically, there wouldn’t have been, and we won’t dwell on that. We’ll say, ‘To hell with it, this is the imaginary, better version of the world. By believing in it, we’ll summon it forth.’” - https://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffat-on-diversity-in-doctor-who-we-must-do-better-80637.htm https://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffat-on-diversity-in-doctor-...
- pyuser583 1y ago"We must never let ourselves be divided by race or by color or religion. Because, in this country we all belong to minority groups. I was born in Hungary, you are <unclear>. These are minorities. And then you belong to other minority groups too. You are a farmer, you have blue eyes, you go to the Methodist church, your right to belong to these minorities is a precious thing. You have a right to be what you are and to say what you think. Because here we have personal freedom. We have liberty. And these are not just fancy words. This is a practical and priceless way of living. But we must work at it. We must guard everyone's liberties. Or we can lose our own. If we allow any minority to lose it's freedom by persecution or by prejudice, we are threatening our own freedom." I don't think anyone sees it this way anymore. We are much more "zero-sum," both right and left.
- thomassmith65 1y agoWe are much more "zero-sum," both right and left. The mistake with ending on that note is that, while 'both right and left' are more zero-sum, only the left gives a shit about the ideals in the actual quote. To drive the point home, the current crop of Republicans wouldn't take kindly to an immigrant SJW college professor like the character in the film preaching to them about liberal values. Then again, he is Hungarian like Viktor Orbán, so maybe that would get him in the door. https://npr.org/2025/05/29/nx-s1-5399682/hungary-trump-viktor-orban-cpac https://npr.org/2025/05/29/nx-s1-5399682/hungary-trump-vikto...
- pyuser583 1y agoThe quote is a call for unity, so I felt it inappropriate to end by attacking my fellow citizens.
- thomassmith65 1y agoIf my fellow citizens are tired of liberal democracy, and subjecting the rest of us to something worse, it warrants criticism. Whether criticism will improve anything, or just annoy people, is another story. There's not likely to be any 'Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?' moment in the current environment, so God help us all.
- nirui 1y agoThe firm got some good in it, sure. But as I see it, today people could be motivated by a firm of good meanings, then tomorrow a post with bad intentions could swing people the other way just as far. The firm was produced back in 1945, but we still hearing similar if not exact same racist and xenophobic talk points today across many countries of different backgrounds. This alone is telling. People don't really care about good or evil, truth or lies, but the message, the story telling, whether someone can make it flip the switches inside their heads, make them subscribe. If you can flip their switches in the exact right way, they'll be your utility. It turns out, we are, unmistakably, suckers. Just with different arrangement of switches. I stopped believing good intentions long ago.
- worldsayshi 1y agoPeople will be more likely to have good intentions if they expect others to have good intentions. If there's a lot of distrust in society good intentioned narratives will lose their power.
- nirui 1y agoPeople are more likely to have good intentions when they expect a good payback (including non-monetary as well as monetary ones) from the good intentions they gave out. It's more of a trade than care. Organisms on this planet require resource to survive, but resource is limited. The nature is fundamentally a zero-sum game so that's what everything tends to fall back to when hard time comes. This is so predictable, played again and again, like we're cogs in a machine. Well, maybe we really are.
- beej71 1y agoA related good read is Army Talk Orientation Fact Sheet #64--Fascism! https://archive.org/details/ArmyTalkOrientationFactSheet64-Fascism https://archive.org/details/ArmyTalkOrientationFactSheet64-F...
- Antifa4HN 1y ago[dead]