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Why does "orange guy doing random thing" cause Bitcoin to go down in value? I mean, whatever the random thing was, it seems to have nothing whatever to do with

Why does "orange guy doing random thing" cause Bitcoin to go down in value? I mean, whatever the random thing was, it seems to have nothing whatever to do with Bitcoin.

stavros 1y ago
I guess because it's random things that cause anything to go up or down nowadays, so it fits.
candiddevmike 1y ago
Because Bitcoin is far, far more correlated with the stock market than the proponents want to admit. Notice that gold didn't budge, "digital gold" my ass. When folks get scared, pure speculation instruments like BTC will tank.
- liquidise 1y ago
  Gold fell on Friday and recovered over the weekend. BTC certainly remains a more speculative asset than physical gold, but the comparison is not as unhinged as you make it sound.
  - nutjob2 1y ago
    Gold is the, uh, gold standard of safety bets and has run up lately to due comprehensive craziness around the world and especially in the US. How is BTC not the exact opposite of gold? It has no fundamentals whatsoever, no uses outside its transactability, and is widely used to speculate.
    - liquidise 1y ago
      > How is BTC not the exact opposite of gold? If BTC is the exact opposite of gold, it follows that Eth, Ripple, USDC, etc are all more gold-like than BTC. I'd be interested to hear why you believe that to be true. BTC is a coin with longer investments and does not fluctuate as much as other cryptocoins (by %). It has a known supply (past, present and future) and predictable mining rate. It has a known finite future supply cap. To be clear i don't believe BTC is a perfect gold analog. But if you have to pick the "most gold-like" digital asset, it would make my short list.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Gold has intrinsic value. Bitcoin are just... bits.
  - rahen 1y ago
    Isn't money just bits too nowadays? As far as I understand, Bitcoin is backed by energy and scarcity, much like gold: it requires significant energy to "mine" a Bitcoin, and it can't be easily duplicated, if at all. That's its intrinsic value, unlike fiat currencies that can be printed easily (correct me if I'm wrong). I also believe that even gold has little intrinsic value, perhaps even less than steel. Ultimately, it's really a question of how valuable something is as a medium of exchange. Bitcoin is durable, portable, divisible, scarce, verifiable, and decentralized, which makes it a valuable form of currency. I suppose that's its exchange value.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      Money is bits, but the government (depending on where you live it is different governments) says you can use it, and so it is backed by the law. If that is good or bad is an open question.
      - rahen 1y ago
        Indeed, it must have legal value. Even so, some stores accept Bitcoin and Monero (thus making them money) but won’t accept USD in Europe or Euros in the US, so you can't use them despite those currencies having legal tender status. So yes, whether Bitcoin is money or a security remains an open question.
    - lawlessone 1y ago
      >Bitcoin is backed by energy Uh that energy is spent though, transformed into heat , you can't reverse all that hashing and have the computer emit electricity.
      - rahen 1y ago
        Isn't it the same for all mining activities, including gold? You typically spend a massive amount of energy digging and processing earth to recover a few grams of gold, and that energy isn't recoverable.
bdcravens 1y ago
The same psychological forces that drive the stock market drive crypto. It used to be fairly disconnected, but that ship sailed long ago.
chasebank 1y ago
From what I’ve read it’s because there is a massive amount of Chinese investment in US equities and crypto markets.
bluecalm 1y ago
As many assets are held by leveraged players their prices crash when it's difficult to secure future loans at the same price. This is why seemingly random things like central bank of Japan raising rates can cause double digit crash on Nasdaq. There is nothing to worry about if you are happy to hold the assets long term. It's an opportunity if you have spare cash. It's only a problem for those leveraged players and people who need to sell right now for whatever reason.
DesiLurker 1y ago
there were a couple of reasons 1) there is a lot of circumstantial evidence of insider trading before the timing of presidential tariff announcement. further the accounts that traded on hyperliquid DEX were funded 24hours before even the first tweet by the president indicating fore-knowledge. 2) crypto exchanges have a feature called auto-deleveraging which closes long and short positions to 'preserve the solvency & integrity of exchange'. apparently this got kicked in when some of the thinly traded coins just didnt have a market maker & basically floor fell out of price. 3) looks like some screwup happened (likely intentional unknown atm) with the price reporting oracle between decentrralized exchanges like hyperliquid and Centralized exchange used (binance). people are claiming intentional sabotage by binance because they have a competing dex called aster. who knows. 4) leverage play, everybody was levered up because of up-tober expectations. so even small movements wiped out peoples saving.
- nroets 1y ago
  Here's more speculation that the price manipulation was rife: https://x.com/ElonTrades/status/1977340254047649966 https://x.com/ElonTrades/status/1977340254047649966
jmyeet 1y ago
There is a prevailing myth that crypto is somehow above or immune to governmental actions. Nothing could be further from the truth. The US government could mostly destroy the crypto market tomorrow with a policy change. That's all it would take. If the US government came out and said to access SWIFT and the US financial system, any financial institution is not allowed to trade fiat currencies to or from crypto currencies then that's it, it's over. The real problem with crypto is the biggest proponents of it simply do not understand the financial system. In fact they're almost the opposite: they're proud of their ignorance. They wear it like a badge of honor, like it lets them be a better disruptor. Sometimes, that's true. But for those of us with some understanding of the financial system, we just shake our head as the crypto market relearns the lessons already baked into the financial system. Here's another myth: currencies were never backed by gold (or silver). The US Dollar has never been 100% backed by any metal. What really backs the US dollar is the US military. Yes, we previously had a soverign promise to exchange dollars for gold but that's just a promise. We saw under FDR how that promise can simply be changed when there was a sovereign currency devaluation.
- kapone 1y ago
  While I mostly agree with you... >The US Dollar has never been 100% backed by any metal. This is not accurate but the devil is always in the details. What exactly does "backed by" mean? If we mean pre Bretton Woods (1971), then, for all intents and purposes it WAS backed by Gold, not just a promise. The federal reserve could not conjure up fiat dollars on theirs (or anybody else's) whims and fancies. Pre-1971 US dollars could be freely traded/swapped for gold at any bank at the then rate of 1oz of Gold = $35. This was written in stone. Of course, then Nixon did what he did in 1971, and as they say the rest is history. p.s. The Bretton Woods Agreement/system/whatever you wanna call it, came into being in the aftermath of WWII, in 1944. This was [1] essentially an agreement that those 44 countries will use the US dollar (and by correlation, the USD<->gold peg) as long as the (US) powers that be didn't fuck it up. p.s.2 - A lot of people don't realize that these accords were what established the IMF, and the beginning the World Bank, BIS etc. So, what happened in 1971 and what did Nixon do? "On August 15, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon announced his New Economic Policy, a program “to create a new prosperity without war.” Known colloquially as the “Nixon shock,” the initiative marked the beginning of the end for the Bretton Woods system of fixed exchange rates established at the end of World War II." - per US Office of the Historian. So, yes, things can change due to government actions, and yes Bitcoin and its peers could be rendered worthless in a heartbeat, if the power that be want it. >What really backs the US dollar is the US military Agreed. But as always there's a time factor. This was true around that time, but not so much today in 2025. While the European military assets are not worth talking about, China and Russia both have continued developing those assets and do present an equalizer today. Are they equal to/better/worse than the US military is somewhat of a moot point. They exist. That in itself is the point. [1] - The Bretton Woods system of monetary management established the rules for commercial relations among 44 countries, including the United States, Canada, Western European countries, and Australia,[1] after the 1944 Bretton Woods Agreement until the Jamaica Accords in 1976. - As per Wikipedia.
mindcandy 1y ago
At a logical level, Bitcoin should be decorrelated from stocks. The fundamentals of Bitcoin network adoption and utilization are largely separate and independent. But, at an emotional level, Bitcoin is considered a high-risk asset. So, whenever fear gets heavy in the fear/greed equation, Bitcoin is one of the first places people pull money out of as they flee to safety. It's also the "High Risk-High Return" spot for folks to plunk their "spare change" when they are feeling safe. So, in practice short term moves in Bitcoin are highly correlated to short term moves in equities. Meanwhile, if you actually run the numbers, Bitcoin has out performed the SP500 (or even the SP10) by a large multiple over the past decade while having a volatility usually around the median of the SP500-top-10 that everyone is currently betting heavily into. People just have a hard time getting out of linear thinking and so they look at the big dips as short-term linear disasters while on a long-term, logarithmic view they have been rather boring. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fdxax1kfufr2e1.png https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fd...
- ajross 1y ago
  > At a logical level, Bitcoin should be decorrelated from stocks I don't see how you get to that logic. BTC is a speculative growth asset held by the same people who speculate on securities, and for the same reason. In fact by virtue of being "pure" speculation, it should be expected to be even "stockier" than stocks! You don't buy bitcoin to influence corporate governance or derive dividend income. The only reason anyone purchases crypto is to sell it later at a higher price. So if you need to dump an asset to backstop other debts, it's going to be your crypto wallet you reach for first. It'll crash harder, almost by definition.
  - mindcandy 1y ago
    There are at least two reasons to buy Bitcoin: 1. You need it for use as a collateral asset for smart contracts. There are no crypto cops or crypto courts. Only collateral gives contracts teeth. There are many options here. Just like there are many options for collateral assets in traditional finance. But, BTC is the top dog for the role and the first choice of individuals and institutions trying to lay down the foundations of decentralized finance. 2. You are speculating that the growth of BTC's growth in value as a collateral asset will outpace the growth of other assets. This as played out well over the past decade.
KronisLV 1y ago
> I mean, whatever the random thing was, it seems to have nothing whatever to do with Bitcoin. I recently reviewed my investments and wrote about it on my blog, curiously around the time when US announced its tariffs around April, pretty much everything dropped, including crypto like BTC and ETH.
dboreham 1y ago
And today we find the real reason for the crypto crash: DOJ seizes $15 billion in bitcoin from 'pig butchering' scam based in Cambodia https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/14/bitcoin-doj-chen-zhi-pig-butchering-scam.html https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/14/bitcoin-doj-chen-zhi-pig-but...

Why does "orange guy doing random thing" cause Bitcoin to go down in value? I mean, whatever the random thing was, it seems to have nothing whatever to do with Bitcoin.

stavros 1y ago

I guess because it's random things that cause anything to go up or down nowadays, so it fits.

candiddevmike 1y ago

Because Bitcoin is far, far more correlated with the stock market than the proponents want to admit. Notice that gold didn't budge, "digital gold" my ass. When folks get scared, pure speculation instruments like BTC will tank.

liquidise 1y ago
Gold fell on Friday and recovered over the weekend. BTC certainly remains a more speculative asset than physical gold, but the comparison is not as unhinged as you make it sound.
- nutjob2 1y ago
  Gold is the, uh, gold standard of safety bets and has run up lately to due comprehensive craziness around the world and especially in the US. How is BTC not the exact opposite of gold? It has no fundamentals whatsoever, no uses outside its transactability, and is widely used to speculate.
  - liquidise 1y ago
    > How is BTC not the exact opposite of gold? If BTC is the exact opposite of gold, it follows that Eth, Ripple, USDC, etc are all more gold-like than BTC. I'd be interested to hear why you believe that to be true. BTC is a coin with longer investments and does not fluctuate as much as other cryptocoins (by %). It has a known supply (past, present and future) and predictable mining rate. It has a known finite future supply cap. To be clear i don't believe BTC is a perfect gold analog. But if you have to pick the "most gold-like" digital asset, it would make my short list.
SoftTalker 1y ago
Gold has intrinsic value. Bitcoin are just... bits.
- rahen 1y ago
  Isn't money just bits too nowadays? As far as I understand, Bitcoin is backed by energy and scarcity, much like gold: it requires significant energy to "mine" a Bitcoin, and it can't be easily duplicated, if at all. That's its intrinsic value, unlike fiat currencies that can be printed easily (correct me if I'm wrong). I also believe that even gold has little intrinsic value, perhaps even less than steel. Ultimately, it's really a question of how valuable something is as a medium of exchange. Bitcoin is durable, portable, divisible, scarce, verifiable, and decentralized, which makes it a valuable form of currency. I suppose that's its exchange value.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Money is bits, but the government (depending on where you live it is different governments) says you can use it, and so it is backed by the law. If that is good or bad is an open question.
    - rahen 1y ago
      Indeed, it must have legal value. Even so, some stores accept Bitcoin and Monero (thus making them money) but won’t accept USD in Europe or Euros in the US, so you can't use them despite those currencies having legal tender status. So yes, whether Bitcoin is money or a security remains an open question.
  - lawlessone 1y ago
    >Bitcoin is backed by energy Uh that energy is spent though, transformed into heat , you can't reverse all that hashing and have the computer emit electricity.
    - rahen 1y ago
      Isn't it the same for all mining activities, including gold? You typically spend a massive amount of energy digging and processing earth to recover a few grams of gold, and that energy isn't recoverable.

bdcravens 1y ago

The same psychological forces that drive the stock market drive crypto. It used to be fairly disconnected, but that ship sailed long ago.

chasebank 1y ago

From what I’ve read it’s because there is a massive amount of Chinese investment in US equities and crypto markets.

bluecalm 1y ago

As many assets are held by leveraged players their prices crash when it's difficult to secure future loans at the same price. This is why seemingly random things like central bank of Japan raising rates can cause double digit crash on Nasdaq. There is nothing to worry about if you are happy to hold the assets long term. It's an opportunity if you have spare cash. It's only a problem for those leveraged players and people who need to sell right now for whatever reason.

DesiLurker 1y ago

there were a couple of reasons 1) there is a lot of circumstantial evidence of insider trading before the timing of presidential tariff announcement. further the accounts that traded on hyperliquid DEX were funded 24hours before even the first tweet by the president indicating fore-knowledge. 2) crypto exchanges have a feature called auto-deleveraging which closes long and short positions to 'preserve the solvency & integrity of exchange'. apparently this got kicked in when some of the thinly traded coins just didnt have a market maker & basically floor fell out of price. 3) looks like some screwup happened (likely intentional unknown atm) with the price reporting oracle between decentrralized exchanges like hyperliquid and Centralized exchange used (binance). people are claiming intentional sabotage by binance because they have a competing dex called aster. who knows. 4) leverage play, everybody was levered up because of up-tober expectations. so even small movements wiped out peoples saving.

nroets 1y ago
Here's more speculation that the price manipulation was rife: https://x.com/ElonTrades/status/1977340254047649966 https://x.com/ElonTrades/status/1977340254047649966

jmyeet 1y ago

There is a prevailing myth that crypto is somehow above or immune to governmental actions. Nothing could be further from the truth. The US government could mostly destroy the crypto market tomorrow with a policy change. That's all it would take. If the US government came out and said to access SWIFT and the US financial system, any financial institution is not allowed to trade fiat currencies to or from crypto currencies then that's it, it's over. The real problem with crypto is the biggest proponents of it simply do not understand the financial system. In fact they're almost the opposite: they're proud of their ignorance. They wear it like a badge of honor, like it lets them be a better disruptor. Sometimes, that's true. But for those of us with some understanding of the financial system, we just shake our head as the crypto market relearns the lessons already baked into the financial system. Here's another myth: currencies were never backed by gold (or silver). The US Dollar has never been 100% backed by any metal. What really backs the US dollar is the US military. Yes, we previously had a soverign promise to exchange dollars for gold but that's just a promise. We saw under FDR how that promise can simply be changed when there was a sovereign currency devaluation.

kapone 1y ago
While I mostly agree with you... >The US Dollar has never been 100% backed by any metal. This is not accurate but the devil is always in the details. What exactly does "backed by" mean? If we mean pre Bretton Woods (1971), then, for all intents and purposes it WAS backed by Gold, not just a promise. The federal reserve could not conjure up fiat dollars on theirs (or anybody else's) whims and fancies. Pre-1971 US dollars could be freely traded/swapped for gold at any bank at the then rate of 1oz of Gold = $35. This was written in stone. Of course, then Nixon did what he did in 1971, and as they say the rest is history. p.s. The Bretton Woods Agreement/system/whatever you wanna call it, came into being in the aftermath of WWII, in 1944. This was [1] essentially an agreement that those 44 countries will use the US dollar (and by correlation, the USD<->gold peg) as long as the (US) powers that be didn't fuck it up. p.s.2 - A lot of people don't realize that these accords were what established the IMF, and the beginning the World Bank, BIS etc. So, what happened in 1971 and what did Nixon do? "On August 15, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon announced his New Economic Policy, a program “to create a new prosperity without war.” Known colloquially as the “Nixon shock,” the initiative marked the beginning of the end for the Bretton Woods system of fixed exchange rates established at the end of World War II." - per US Office of the Historian. So, yes, things can change due to government actions, and yes Bitcoin and its peers could be rendered worthless in a heartbeat, if the power that be want it. >What really backs the US dollar is the US military Agreed. But as always there's a time factor. This was true around that time, but not so much today in 2025. While the European military assets are not worth talking about, China and Russia both have continued developing those assets and do present an equalizer today. Are they equal to/better/worse than the US military is somewhat of a moot point. They exist. That in itself is the point. [1] - The Bretton Woods system of monetary management established the rules for commercial relations among 44 countries, including the United States, Canada, Western European countries, and Australia,[1] after the 1944 Bretton Woods Agreement until the Jamaica Accords in 1976. - As per Wikipedia.

mindcandy 1y ago

At a logical level, Bitcoin should be decorrelated from stocks. The fundamentals of Bitcoin network adoption and utilization are largely separate and independent. But, at an emotional level, Bitcoin is considered a high-risk asset. So, whenever fear gets heavy in the fear/greed equation, Bitcoin is one of the first places people pull money out of as they flee to safety. It's also the "High Risk-High Return" spot for folks to plunk their "spare change" when they are feeling safe. So, in practice short term moves in Bitcoin are highly correlated to short term moves in equities. Meanwhile, if you actually run the numbers, Bitcoin has out performed the SP500 (or even the SP10) by a large multiple over the past decade while having a volatility usually around the median of the SP500-top-10 that everyone is currently betting heavily into. People just have a hard time getting out of linear thinking and so they look at the big dips as short-term linear disasters while on a long-term, logarithmic view they have been rather boring. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fdxax1kfufr2e1.png https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fd...

ajross 1y ago
> At a logical level, Bitcoin should be decorrelated from stocks I don't see how you get to that logic. BTC is a speculative growth asset held by the same people who speculate on securities, and for the same reason. In fact by virtue of being "pure" speculation, it should be expected to be even "stockier" than stocks! You don't buy bitcoin to influence corporate governance or derive dividend income. The only reason anyone purchases crypto is to sell it later at a higher price. So if you need to dump an asset to backstop other debts, it's going to be your crypto wallet you reach for first. It'll crash harder, almost by definition.
- mindcandy 1y ago
  There are at least two reasons to buy Bitcoin: 1. You need it for use as a collateral asset for smart contracts. There are no crypto cops or crypto courts. Only collateral gives contracts teeth. There are many options here. Just like there are many options for collateral assets in traditional finance. But, BTC is the top dog for the role and the first choice of individuals and institutions trying to lay down the foundations of decentralized finance. 2. You are speculating that the growth of BTC's growth in value as a collateral asset will outpace the growth of other assets. This as played out well over the past decade.

KronisLV 1y ago

> I mean, whatever the random thing was, it seems to have nothing whatever to do with Bitcoin. I recently reviewed my investments and wrote about it on my blog, curiously around the time when US announced its tariffs around April, pretty much everything dropped, including crypto like BTC and ETH.

dboreham 1y ago

And today we find the real reason for the crypto crash: DOJ seizes $15 billion in bitcoin from 'pig butchering' scam based in Cambodia https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/14/bitcoin-doj-chen-zhi-pig-butchering-scam.html https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/14/bitcoin-doj-chen-zhi-pig-but...