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This is How Larry Elisson beat Musk for a short while although Oracle was struggling.' The deals among Oracle, Nvidia, and OpenAI have raised concerns about the

This is How Larry Elisson beat Musk for a short while although Oracle was struggling.' The deals among Oracle, Nvidia, and OpenAI have raised concerns about their circular and potentially risky nature. Oracle is reportedly spending tens of billions on Nvidia's advanced chips, Nvidia plans to invest up to $100 billion in OpenAI, and OpenAI uses Oracle's cloud infrastructure through Microsoft's Azure, creating a closed loop of financing and business. Some analysts warn this creates a reflexive loop or "dangerous bubble" where valuations may be inflated artificially by the circular flow of capital and resources, reminiscent of past booms that ended in sharp market corrections.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
heywoods 1y ago
Is it fair to say OpenAI is in a sense “washing” the money passing between Nvidia and Oracle? And instead of taking a cut in the traditional money laundering they are enjoying massive valuation gains? When the fed investigates this does it matter if one of the 3 companies is not a publicly traded company?
- scott_w 1y ago
  I guess you could see it like that but I don’t think it’s “wash trading” in the sense that they’re coordinating it. I don’t really know what the fed would investigate here.
- XorNot 1y ago
  What you're missing is that real value can be created in these exchanges - Nvidia really makes chips for example. The issue is that it's an industry of investment which exists solely to power more investment in AI - the entire chain is still assuming that someone will eventually pay for this. At the end of the day all that money leaks out to employees and suppliers...but no one those people transact with may have any interest in buying what was produced.
  - neuronic 1y ago
    That's only really value if the chips are useful and if there are people buying the chips for something they want to do with them. It's entirely based on the perception that LLM training & inference is here to stay at ever growing scales when the shortcomings of Artificial Dreaming are increasingly scrutinized. Not all businesses want to end up paying refunds to their clients like Deloitte [1] because the LLM hallucinated crap into their reports (and they failed to correct it). [1] https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/oct/06/deloitte-to-pay-money-back-to-albanese-government-after-using-ai-in-440000-report https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/oct/06/deloi...
    - re-thc 1y ago
      > It's entirely based on the perception that LLM training & inference is here to stay at ever growing scales when the shortcomings of Artificial Dreaming are increasingly scrutinized. Not all businesses want to end up paying refunds to their clients like Deloitte [1] because the LLM hallucinated crap into their reports (and they failed to correct it). This assumes Deloitte didn't make more $$$ from the deal by "outsourcing" it to AI than not. It was a partial refund.
      - rhetocj23 1y ago
        You haven’t brought in the side costs into your analysis
        re-thc 1y ago
        > You haven’t brought in the side costs into your analysis And you haven't considered that Deloitte might get this money some other way anyway. It's been budgeted and needs to be spent by the government department for this financial year. They'll find another project to hand out.
        rhetocj23 1y ago
        lol you and I are not talking about the same stuff mate
re-thc 1y ago
> while although Oracle was struggling In terms of actual earnings not sure Tesla is doing better.
nl 1y ago
Oracle most certainly is not struggling. Even putting aside the NVidia deal, their cloud business is thriving.
- Traubenfuchs 1y ago
  They give you 4 nodes with 1 vcpu and 6GB RAM each for free forever by the way. Most other stuff has a free tier too. I used it to learn terraform and have a kubernetes cluster running. I know it's always trendy to bash oracle and simp for AWS, but it is THE best option for learning and hobbyists.
  - NewJazz 1y ago
    Uh, you can get that level of compute locally easy peasy. Learning terraform isn't hard, it's what you stitch together with terraform that is hard.
    - bartekrutkowski 1y ago
      I think the point here is that free beats easy peasy, especially when learning a new skill, where your easy peasy isn't their easy peasy. And getting something up and running on Oracle Cloud with Terraform is nowhere near easy peasy for someone who never did anything with Terraform ;)
      - bravetraveler 1y ago
        'Back in my day' we learned with VMs for free! The computer you have works without internet, for instance
  - pta2002 1y ago
    You can also get all of that in a single node, which makes for a fairly beefy build server :)
  - jeswin 1y ago
    That's very cool. I was going to get a hetzner for some hobby projects. Can you get that without adding a payment mechanism? For some reason, I'd be more cautious about putting my card into Oracle's offering than anyone else.
athrowaway3z 1y ago
It's worth noting Elisson is 2 years older than Trump. What's he going to do with all that money, and what does he care for the risk it's bad or shady? Worst case, he got to be #1 for a bit for a few dozen billion, best case he's hoping AGI will extend his life before he croaks.
- pjc50 1y ago
  I miss the era when people like Dale Carnegie would sponsor some public buildings, instead of ruining the internet and the natural environment.
  - iamacyborg 1y ago
    The Sacklers donated a lot of money to cultural institutions while they poisoned society with opiates.
  - summa_tech 1y ago
    You may be thinking of Andrew Carnegie. Who was a steel industry tycoon, probably the #2 most polluting industry today. Back then - probably #1.
- neuronic 1y ago
  What does Ellisons personal wealth have to do with this? The concern is that the circular pattern of shifting money between these companies is artificially inflating the stock market to heights that will crash very very badly when this bubble finally pops.
  - rhetocj23 1y ago
    The market is due a correction irrespective of bubble mania. The implied equity risky premium is getting pretty low - a sign of greed.
- victorbjorklund 1y ago
  Doubt he believes that. Getting AGI (whatever that actually means) means we are still far away from reversing ageing.
HelloNurse 1y ago
If this means that the fall of OpenAI will cause Oracle and Nvidia to crash and downsize, bubbles aren't completely bad.
- re-thc 1y ago
  > If this means that the fall of OpenAI will cause Oracle and Nvidia to crash and downsize Only if those are the only actual real customers. It's not. The pie is a lot bigger. And with the current hype some other AI company will just take over and the bubble will continue.
- passwordoops 1y ago
  You can't discount the impact this will have on global stock markets and what that may do to both individuals and, more importantly, pension funds, as a large swath of people are retiring
  - HelloNurse 1y ago
    Damage is unavoidable, we can only hope that it happens to someone deserving. Innocent individuals and pension funds still have time to retreat; if they don't it will be their fault.
    - azan_ 1y ago
      We are moving towards gerontocracy - if pension funds will have large losses it’s very likely that young, working age people will be taxed extra heavily to keep the QOL of pensioners.
      - zmgsabst 1y ago
        That would likely lead to a revolution: Millennials are 30-45 and they’re not in a good place; neither is Gen Z. We’re already seeing revolutions elsewhere — and it’s likely that trying to loot them further by generations who sold out the nation will simply lead to social collapse.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

heywoods 1y ago

Is it fair to say OpenAI is in a sense “washing” the money passing between Nvidia and Oracle? And instead of taking a cut in the traditional money laundering they are enjoying massive valuation gains? When the fed investigates this does it matter if one of the 3 companies is not a publicly traded company?

scott_w 1y ago
I guess you could see it like that but I don’t think it’s “wash trading” in the sense that they’re coordinating it. I don’t really know what the fed would investigate here.
XorNot 1y ago
What you're missing is that real value can be created in these exchanges - Nvidia really makes chips for example. The issue is that it's an industry of investment which exists solely to power more investment in AI - the entire chain is still assuming that someone will eventually pay for this. At the end of the day all that money leaks out to employees and suppliers...but no one those people transact with may have any interest in buying what was produced.
- neuronic 1y ago
  That's only really value if the chips are useful and if there are people buying the chips for something they want to do with them. It's entirely based on the perception that LLM training & inference is here to stay at ever growing scales when the shortcomings of Artificial Dreaming are increasingly scrutinized. Not all businesses want to end up paying refunds to their clients like Deloitte [1] because the LLM hallucinated crap into their reports (and they failed to correct it). [1] https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/oct/06/deloitte-to-pay-money-back-to-albanese-government-after-using-ai-in-440000-report https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/oct/06/deloi...
  - re-thc 1y ago
    > It's entirely based on the perception that LLM training & inference is here to stay at ever growing scales when the shortcomings of Artificial Dreaming are increasingly scrutinized. Not all businesses want to end up paying refunds to their clients like Deloitte [1] because the LLM hallucinated crap into their reports (and they failed to correct it). This assumes Deloitte didn't make more $$$ from the deal by "outsourcing" it to AI than not. It was a partial refund.
    - rhetocj23 1y ago
      You haven’t brought in the side costs into your analysis
      - re-thc 1y ago
        > You haven’t brought in the side costs into your analysis And you haven't considered that Deloitte might get this money some other way anyway. It's been budgeted and needs to be spent by the government department for this financial year. They'll find another project to hand out.
        rhetocj23 1y ago
        lol you and I are not talking about the same stuff mate

re-thc 1y ago

> while although Oracle was struggling In terms of actual earnings not sure Tesla is doing better.

nl 1y ago

Oracle most certainly is not struggling. Even putting aside the NVidia deal, their cloud business is thriving.

Traubenfuchs 1y ago
They give you 4 nodes with 1 vcpu and 6GB RAM each for free forever by the way. Most other stuff has a free tier too. I used it to learn terraform and have a kubernetes cluster running. I know it's always trendy to bash oracle and simp for AWS, but it is THE best option for learning and hobbyists.
- NewJazz 1y ago
  Uh, you can get that level of compute locally easy peasy. Learning terraform isn't hard, it's what you stitch together with terraform that is hard.
  - bartekrutkowski 1y ago
    I think the point here is that free beats easy peasy, especially when learning a new skill, where your easy peasy isn't their easy peasy. And getting something up and running on Oracle Cloud with Terraform is nowhere near easy peasy for someone who never did anything with Terraform ;)
    - bravetraveler 1y ago
      'Back in my day' we learned with VMs for free! The computer you have works without internet, for instance
- pta2002 1y ago
  You can also get all of that in a single node, which makes for a fairly beefy build server :)
- jeswin 1y ago
  That's very cool. I was going to get a hetzner for some hobby projects. Can you get that without adding a payment mechanism? For some reason, I'd be more cautious about putting my card into Oracle's offering than anyone else.

athrowaway3z 1y ago

It's worth noting Elisson is 2 years older than Trump. What's he going to do with all that money, and what does he care for the risk it's bad or shady? Worst case, he got to be #1 for a bit for a few dozen billion, best case he's hoping AGI will extend his life before he croaks.

pjc50 1y ago
I miss the era when people like Dale Carnegie would sponsor some public buildings, instead of ruining the internet and the natural environment.
- iamacyborg 1y ago
  The Sacklers donated a lot of money to cultural institutions while they poisoned society with opiates.
- summa_tech 1y ago
  You may be thinking of Andrew Carnegie. Who was a steel industry tycoon, probably the #2 most polluting industry today. Back then - probably #1.
neuronic 1y ago
What does Ellisons personal wealth have to do with this? The concern is that the circular pattern of shifting money between these companies is artificially inflating the stock market to heights that will crash very very badly when this bubble finally pops.
- rhetocj23 1y ago
  The market is due a correction irrespective of bubble mania. The implied equity risky premium is getting pretty low - a sign of greed.
victorbjorklund 1y ago
Doubt he believes that. Getting AGI (whatever that actually means) means we are still far away from reversing ageing.

HelloNurse 1y ago

If this means that the fall of OpenAI will cause Oracle and Nvidia to crash and downsize, bubbles aren't completely bad.

re-thc 1y ago
> If this means that the fall of OpenAI will cause Oracle and Nvidia to crash and downsize Only if those are the only actual real customers. It's not. The pie is a lot bigger. And with the current hype some other AI company will just take over and the bubble will continue.
passwordoops 1y ago
You can't discount the impact this will have on global stock markets and what that may do to both individuals and, more importantly, pension funds, as a large swath of people are retiring
- HelloNurse 1y ago
  Damage is unavoidable, we can only hope that it happens to someone deserving. Innocent individuals and pension funds still have time to retreat; if they don't it will be their fault.
  - azan_ 1y ago
    We are moving towards gerontocracy - if pension funds will have large losses it’s very likely that young, working age people will be taxed extra heavily to keep the QOL of pensioners.
    - zmgsabst 1y ago
      That would likely lead to a revolution: Millennials are 30-45 and they’re not in a good place; neither is Gen Z. We’re already seeing revolutions elsewhere — and it’s likely that trying to loot them further by generations who sold out the nation will simply lead to social collapse.