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It is the legally accurate description of the AfD [1]. Just like it is legally correct to call Björn Höcke a fascist. [1] https://medienservice.sachsen.de/medi

It is the legally accurate description of the AfD [1]. Just like it is legally correct to call Björn Höcke a fascist. [1] https://medienservice.sachsen.de/medien/news/1071656 https://medienservice.sachsen.de/medien/news/1071656

pembrook 1y ago
Yes, now show me the legally accurate description of leftist parties with the opposite political craziness within it. The greens are filled with communists for example. Or the literal communist party, Die Linke. Why are they never referred to as the extreme left.
- jdiez17 1y ago
  Here you go: https://www.bmi.bund.de/DE/themen/sicherheit/extremismus/linksextremismus/linksextremismus-node.html https://www.bmi.bund.de/DE/themen/sicherheit/extremismus/lin... Feel free to read the chapter „Linksextremismus“. It talks about various violent Antifa groups and other cases. Keep in mind that the definition of „extreme left“ refers to organizations that want to replace the basic democratic system with communism or anarchy (according to the German constitutional court). It does not necessarily include „political craziness“ that we may disagree with. The point of these legal descriptions of organizations is not to be used as a political weapon for parties you don’t like. You have to do some significantly malicious stuff to be considered as such.
  - pembrook 1y ago
    But doesn’t this prove my point. The AfD, like all political parties, is simply a coalition of various smaller subgroups. It’s by no means “extreme” right in entirety. Yet, leftist parties harboring actual communists are not labeled “extreme.”
    - onli 1y ago
      The AFD is extreme right in its entirely. It's a political party that wants to deport foreigners, remove the german citizenship from people with a migrational background, and it plans to destroy the democratic political parties - which means toppling democracy. They say so clearly and openly, also calling the other parties "Altparteien". While the party started with a different background, by now voters and members do know about these majority positions and thus support them.
  - selfmodruntime 1y ago
    > It talks about various violent Antifa groups and other cases. As the time of writing, six different extreme left groups are tolerated within Die Linke and are also financed by their members. All of these groups are currently being watched by the government secret service.
- indigo945 1y ago
  > Or the literal communist party, Die Linke. Why are they never referred to as the extreme left. It's definitely not true that people never refer to Die Linke as extreme left. In fact, all kinds of people - including prominent politicians from e.g. the CDU - refer to Die Linke as extreme left. This is not commenting on whether that is a correct moniker or not, I'm just pointing out that your dichotomy is nonsensical because the thing that you suggest to not be happening absolutely is happening.
- onli 1y ago
  That's incorrect on every level. The greens are not filled with communists. They would feel very unwelcome there, given the capitalist move the party did in the 90s. Die Linke is also not a communist party. It supports capitalism, but targets a social capitalism, like the CDU did in the 50s and the SPD did until the 80s. There are communist parties in Germany, like the MLPD, but they do not get many votes. Background here is that in a divided Germany the communists were not popular in West germany, also most of them got killed by the Nazis before, and on top of that West Germany banned the main communist party already 1956. Also, rightwing politicians do call "Die Linke" (incorrectly) extreme left, and accordingly the CDU/CSU has a mandate to never cooperate with them.
  - selfmodruntime 1y ago
    > Die Linke is also not a communist party. It supports capitalism, but targets a social capitalism, like the CDU did in the 50s and the SPD did until the 80s. This is untrue and you will only have to go so far to read their party program to find out it isn't.
    - notTooFarGone 1y ago
      Be our guest and enlighten us with citations!
      - selfmodruntime 1y ago
        1 second google search -> https://www.die-linke.de/partei/programm/ https://www.die-linke.de/partei/programm/ -> Marx's manifesto is cited among the first paragraphs -> the literal first sentence in point 3's second paragraph -> "Our goal of democratic socialism in the 21st century is a society free of domination in which all people can live in dignity." They mention the process of transforming capitalism to state mandated socialism and control of all companies by a democratic process. A democratic socialism is not a social capitalism, they don't support capitalism in any way or form, and they want to actively move away from it, which they also say among the first sentences on this very page. It took me all of 5 seconds to achieve this enlightenment. You should try it sometimes.
jebronie 1y ago
Du bist ein Ausländer.
Xelbair 1y ago
There's distinction between legality, reality and morality. Most of the time no one uses full formal legal terms in normal conversation. I don't support AfD, I'm not German either - i just agree with parent poster's observation that for some reason left extremism(and I'm talking actual eco-terrorism for example) is more widely 'accepted' in public space when talking to Germans. Meanwhile mentioning even slightly Right ideas gets you lynched, and any form of discussions stops. And from small sample size of Germans i know, this is the reason that did push quite few of those people towards AfD. Frankly AfD is a perfect marker of your own policy making - are more people pushed towards it? you probably are doing something severely wrong as a policymaker.
- the_gipsy 1y ago
  People that vote and support the far right do it as reaction, that is likely. But not to "extreme left nonsene" appearing. That's just a pretext. The real reason, to which they react, is that they can no longer covertly express and exercise their ideas. In other words, it's a reaction to getting publicly called out about being racist, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic etc.
  - Xelbair 1y ago
    You've made a lot of assumptions about people i know and talk with - without knowing them, exactly showcasing the problem that I've mentioned. As soon as the topic is mentioned it becomes a discussion stopper. Thank you for your contribution into proving my point.
    - the_gipsy 1y ago
      If we were to categorize AfD voters and supporters into two groups: 1. people that support some of: racism, xenophobia, homophobia, misogyny, anti-environmentalism, etc., i.e. authoritarianism for their group 2. people that have been pushed by extreme leftism because they can no longer discuss alternative points of view (but do not strictly belong to group 1) What share would you assign to each?
selfmodruntime 1y ago
While I agree with this decision, it was not made by an independent court. Courts are often stacked with politicians in Germany.
- computerthings 1y ago
  [dead]
- jacomoRodriguez 1y ago
  Quote please

pembrook 1y ago

Yes, now show me the legally accurate description of leftist parties with the opposite political craziness within it. The greens are filled with communists for example. Or the literal communist party, Die Linke. Why are they never referred to as the extreme left.

jdiez17 1y ago
Here you go: https://www.bmi.bund.de/DE/themen/sicherheit/extremismus/linksextremismus/linksextremismus-node.html https://www.bmi.bund.de/DE/themen/sicherheit/extremismus/lin... Feel free to read the chapter „Linksextremismus“. It talks about various violent Antifa groups and other cases. Keep in mind that the definition of „extreme left“ refers to organizations that want to replace the basic democratic system with communism or anarchy (according to the German constitutional court). It does not necessarily include „political craziness“ that we may disagree with. The point of these legal descriptions of organizations is not to be used as a political weapon for parties you don’t like. You have to do some significantly malicious stuff to be considered as such.
- pembrook 1y ago
  But doesn’t this prove my point. The AfD, like all political parties, is simply a coalition of various smaller subgroups. It’s by no means “extreme” right in entirety. Yet, leftist parties harboring actual communists are not labeled “extreme.”
  - onli 1y ago
    The AFD is extreme right in its entirely. It's a political party that wants to deport foreigners, remove the german citizenship from people with a migrational background, and it plans to destroy the democratic political parties - which means toppling democracy. They say so clearly and openly, also calling the other parties "Altparteien". While the party started with a different background, by now voters and members do know about these majority positions and thus support them.
- selfmodruntime 1y ago
  > It talks about various violent Antifa groups and other cases. As the time of writing, six different extreme left groups are tolerated within Die Linke and are also financed by their members. All of these groups are currently being watched by the government secret service.
indigo945 1y ago
> Or the literal communist party, Die Linke. Why are they never referred to as the extreme left. It's definitely not true that people never refer to Die Linke as extreme left. In fact, all kinds of people - including prominent politicians from e.g. the CDU - refer to Die Linke as extreme left. This is not commenting on whether that is a correct moniker or not, I'm just pointing out that your dichotomy is nonsensical because the thing that you suggest to not be happening absolutely is happening.
onli 1y ago
That's incorrect on every level. The greens are not filled with communists. They would feel very unwelcome there, given the capitalist move the party did in the 90s. Die Linke is also not a communist party. It supports capitalism, but targets a social capitalism, like the CDU did in the 50s and the SPD did until the 80s. There are communist parties in Germany, like the MLPD, but they do not get many votes. Background here is that in a divided Germany the communists were not popular in West germany, also most of them got killed by the Nazis before, and on top of that West Germany banned the main communist party already 1956. Also, rightwing politicians do call "Die Linke" (incorrectly) extreme left, and accordingly the CDU/CSU has a mandate to never cooperate with them.
- selfmodruntime 1y ago
  > Die Linke is also not a communist party. It supports capitalism, but targets a social capitalism, like the CDU did in the 50s and the SPD did until the 80s. This is untrue and you will only have to go so far to read their party program to find out it isn't.
  - notTooFarGone 1y ago
    Be our guest and enlighten us with citations!
    - selfmodruntime 1y ago
      1 second google search -> https://www.die-linke.de/partei/programm/ https://www.die-linke.de/partei/programm/ -> Marx's manifesto is cited among the first paragraphs -> the literal first sentence in point 3's second paragraph -> "Our goal of democratic socialism in the 21st century is a society free of domination in which all people can live in dignity." They mention the process of transforming capitalism to state mandated socialism and control of all companies by a democratic process. A democratic socialism is not a social capitalism, they don't support capitalism in any way or form, and they want to actively move away from it, which they also say among the first sentences on this very page. It took me all of 5 seconds to achieve this enlightenment. You should try it sometimes.

jebronie 1y ago

Du bist ein Ausländer.

Xelbair 1y ago

There's distinction between legality, reality and morality. Most of the time no one uses full formal legal terms in normal conversation. I don't support AfD, I'm not German either - i just agree with parent poster's observation that for some reason left extremism(and I'm talking actual eco-terrorism for example) is more widely 'accepted' in public space when talking to Germans. Meanwhile mentioning even slightly Right ideas gets you lynched, and any form of discussions stops. And from small sample size of Germans i know, this is the reason that did push quite few of those people towards AfD. Frankly AfD is a perfect marker of your own policy making - are more people pushed towards it? you probably are doing something severely wrong as a policymaker.

the_gipsy 1y ago
People that vote and support the far right do it as reaction, that is likely. But not to "extreme left nonsene" appearing. That's just a pretext. The real reason, to which they react, is that they can no longer covertly express and exercise their ideas. In other words, it's a reaction to getting publicly called out about being racist, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic etc.
- Xelbair 1y ago
  You've made a lot of assumptions about people i know and talk with - without knowing them, exactly showcasing the problem that I've mentioned. As soon as the topic is mentioned it becomes a discussion stopper. Thank you for your contribution into proving my point.
  - the_gipsy 1y ago
    If we were to categorize AfD voters and supporters into two groups: 1. people that support some of: racism, xenophobia, homophobia, misogyny, anti-environmentalism, etc., i.e. authoritarianism for their group 2. people that have been pushed by extreme leftism because they can no longer discuss alternative points of view (but do not strictly belong to group 1) What share would you assign to each?

selfmodruntime 1y ago

While I agree with this decision, it was not made by an independent court. Courts are often stacked with politicians in Germany.

computerthings 1y ago
[dead]
jacomoRodriguez 1y ago
Quote please