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Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- m00dy 1y agoI wouldn't pay to read this.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- newsclues 1y agoNo one listened, no one prepared. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Munich_speech_of_Vladimir_Putin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Munich_speech_of_Vladim... It’s not like there was any warning signs… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 Bullies exploit weaknesses. Time to grow a pair.
- tomrod 1y agoDon't forget the manifest: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
- derelicta 1y ago[flagged]
- bootsmann 1y ago> Regarding the Malaysian airline, Westerners do this all the time Western governments shoot down civilian airliners all the time? (Also funny how the propaganda has shifted from “Actually the Ukrainians shot it down” to “Actually others do this too”)
- NicuCalcea 1y ago"We didn't do it and if we did, they deserved it."
- derelicta 1y agoUkrainians have done it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/1359353/Ukraine-admits-it-shot-down-Russian-airliner.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/135... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 Just two examples Ofc when we do it it's alright. Only when others do it then it's bad.
- MildlySerious 1y agoI have always found the summary of Foundations of Geopolitics[1] to be an interesting re-read whenever some larger event involving Russia happened. It feels like the puzzle pieces have been coming together at least since Brexit, if not much longer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#Content https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#Con...
- AnimalMuppet 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#In_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#In_... is frighteningly accurate to current events. I wonder to what degree this is them succeeding?
- sph 1y agoHere's a link to the full book: https://www.maieutiek.nl/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Foundations-of-Geopolitics.pdf https://www.maieutiek.nl/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Foundati... Don't pay for it, unless you want to fund what Wikipedia describes as a "Russian far-right political philosopher [and] strong supporter of Russian president Vladimir Putin".
- scotty79 1y agoIn 2007 and later everybody in Europe understood that russia is basically in the toilet and they can't do anything offensive that won't make them hurt themselves terribly. The only thing is nobody, except Eastern European countries, imagined is that russia is stupid enough to do it anyways.
- burnt-resistor 1y agoWorth watching: You won't believe what Estonia just built to stop Russia https://youtu.be/DMRQW18COv4 https://youtu.be/DMRQW18COv4 The Baltics, Poland, and northern European countries don't have any illusions that NATO is already in a de facto state of asymmetric war with Russia already: hacking, sabotage, and election meddling of all sorts. The surface of concerns extend beyond that to Ukraine-like hot war scenarios especially for neighboring countries like Finland and the Baltics.
- cindyllm 1y ago[dead]
- 1718627440 1y agoPutin also was in prison in Germany in the 90ies for trying to overthrow the government and restore Soviet control.
- blargthorwars 1y agoEurope is buying billions of Russian gas and petrochemicals. https://energyandcleanair.org/financing-putins-war/ https://energyandcleanair.org/financing-putins-war/ The first step when finding yourself in a hole is to stop digging.
- lazide 1y agoThe beauty of having your opponent in hole when you own both the shovel and the ladder, is they can’t figure out how to stop digging.
- scotty79 1y agoWhat part of this is Hungary and such?
- slaw 1y agoThat is mostly Germany. Once Germany stops buying oil from Russia other countries will be forced to stop too.
- mafribe 1y agoCould you give some evidence for this claim? Here is some counterevidence: [1] says that the top buyers of Russian energy include: • Hungary: 416 million euros ($488m) • Slovakia: 275 million euros ($323m) • France: 157 million euros ($184m) • Netherlands: 65 million euros ($76m) • Belgium: 64 million euros ($75m) [2] suggests that China and India are the main buyers. I don't how reliable those sources are. There is also the problem of how to classify 'laundered' oil that was bought and resold by, e.g. India. [1] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/10/3/how-much-of-europes-oil-and-gas-still-comes-from-russia https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/10/3/how-much-of-europes... [2] https://energyandcleanair.org/june-2025-monthly-analysis-of-russian-fossil-fuel-exports-and-sanctions/ https://energyandcleanair.org/june-2025-monthly-analysis-of-...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dgan 1y agoMy armchair analysis: Putin provokes Europe so that he has an excuse to announce mobilization (otherwise very unpopular move)
- fraboniface 1y agoHow do you (especially Europeans) understand this move from Russia? Can it really sustain a war against us? Does it want to break NATO by proving the US won't move?
- mbfg 1y agoI think the idea from putin is, they are done in 20 years anyway from a population/financial position anyway. There only chance is to expand and take over populations to rebuild their ability to survive as a country.
- ahsillyme 1y agoIs this something that you would have done? I don't see how russia's survivability would be improved by expanding it's sphere of control, but, on the contrary it would stretch resources thin.
- severino 1y agoWhat move, you mean about the drones? I first want to be sure about what happened. Remember that few years ago you were still being labeled as "Russian propaganda" if you had doubts about the NS incident.
- amelius 1y ago(NS = nord stream gas pipes)
- jacknews 1y agoNow we're expected to believe a rag-tag crew of Ukrainians used a leaky sailboat to simultaneously detonate deep water pipelines, lol. Denmark and Sweden gave up thier investigations quite quickly, probably they arrived at the truth but couldn't say it, only Germany was strong-armed into keeping the charade going.
- scoofy 1y agoThings are still being label "Russian propaganda" because Russia no longer has a free press.
- NicoJuicy 1y agoArmchair analysis: Germany is preparing for war and all of Europe is asking them. Well, this won't end well for Russia. Germany is one of the biggest industrial producers in the world.
- throwaway_dang 1y ago[flagged]
- piva00 1y agoGermany still has a very large industrial base, things don't just disappear into the ether because they aren't profitable. Factories are still there, they can be retooled in case of need such as in a war. Perhaps you should be a bit more humble when spewing bullshit, it might even make it more believable instead of this word vomit.
- throwaway_dang 1y agoRussia has about twice the steel output that Germany does, comparable to the United States (which has twice the population of Russia). Russia uses about twice the electricity that Germany does too. Here's Germany doing its NATO exercises with broomsticks due to shortages https://www.newsweek.com/germany-cant-explain-use-broomstick-instead-guns-nato-exercise-307902 https://www.newsweek.com/germany-cant-explain-use-broomstick... https://carnegieendowment.org/europe/strategic-europe/2018/02/germany-from-machine-guns-to-broomsticks?lang=en https://carnegieendowment.org/europe/strategic-europe/2018/0... What was that you were saying about spewing bullshit?
- NicoJuicy 1y agoRussia can't even make Lada's without Europe ( see : Renault ) no matter the output of steel. Germany actually builds tanks that work. I'd compare GDP if you want a measurement. Oh yeah, use EU's GDP of course. Germany alone is 2 x Russia. Russia is basically a little brother of Italy. Trying to matter on the world stage. With the border Russia has with the EU, they don't have enough resources to defend it. And I'm not even talking about Finland's military who joined NATO... Ps. About Germany: https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/media/stories/2023/rheinmetall-a-powerful-partner-at-ukraine-side https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/media/stories/2023/rheinmetal... https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/products/tactical-wheeled-vehicles/wheeled-armoured-vehicles/gmars https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/products/tactical-wheeled-veh... And then Russia: https://united24media.com/latest-news/russias-tank-reserves-are-rapidly-depleting-new-osint-analysis-shows-10163 https://united24media.com/latest-news/russias-tank-reserves-...
- js8 1y agoI am not sure what European "leaders" expected. Many of them support Ukraine militarily in the war, so yes, EU is in fact in war with Russia, through Ukraine as a proxy. I oppose the military support to Ukraine. I think it's responsibility of the stronger party, here NATO, to seek deescalation. I also disapprove that the military support for Ukraine was decided undemocratically, without any consideration whether this might escalate into a war. And here we are...
- RandomLensman 1y agoWhat was undemocratic about the decisions to support Ukraine?
- js8 1y agoTo my knowledge, these things are never put forward as an election topic or referendum. There is no discussion with citizens, it's always a fait accompli, we have to do it for national security sort of thing. The blowback is not discussed. I am from Czechia, and Russians attacked Vrbětice munition factory, because it supplied Ukraine. That's the reason. But in media it's always portrayed without this context. FWIW, I am not opposed to humanitarian and economic help to Ukraine. But I don't believe military support will end the war in a good way, whatever it means.
- RandomLensman 1y agoParties in elections certainly have positions on it and representative democracies tend to work that way. Btw., there is quite a bit on the 2014 attack in various places.
- piva00 1y agoIt shouldn't be a referendum. Representative democracies are supposed to work this way, a government is elected, and they represent their electorate. If the electorate disagrees with the actions the government took they will be voted out the next election cycle, in between it's in the hands of the elected government to make decisions in these matters. > FWIW, I am not opposed to humanitarian and economic help to Ukraine. But I don't believe military support will end the war in a good way, whatever it means. It means Ukraine falling in the hands of Russia, is that a better alternative for the rest of us? Have you considered the Pandora Box this opens up to? Without supporting Ukraine militarily they will be defeated, Russia will get a large border with Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, Romania, and Moldova.
- theothertimcook 1y agoCan and will, Ukraine shoulda never gave up those nukes.
- gspetr 1y agoThis Slate article debunked it with declassified documents: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/01/ukraine-nuclear-weapons-newly-declassified-documents-russia-putin-war.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/01/ukraine-nuclear-...
- theothertimcook 1y agoThat makes sense, but still, the assurances of protection, nothing flash there.
- tamimio 1y agoBesides the fact this fear mongering is very useful in this timeline to pass laws violating people's privacy and strengthening state surveillance, the only one winning is whoever is selling the weapons, hmmm who could it be?!
- notmyjob 1y agoIf only they started spending more on defense 10 years ago when they were being called on to do so instead of pretending Brexit and anti-immigrant sentiments were their biggest enemy rather than Russian energy dependence.
- askonomm 1y agoIf only we didn't have a metric boatload of Russian interference and sabotage in our countries that constantly blocks any efforts to get free from their dependence.
- notmyjob 1y agoWhile there is no consensus on whether Angela Merkel was "too friendly" to Russia— critics argue that her policies left Germany and Europe too dependent on Russian energy and that she failed to take a sufficiently tough stance against Vladimir Putin. Supporters, including Merkel herself, have defended her diplomatic approach as a pragmatic and necessary strategy given Russia's place in Europe. Even today money flows from US allies including NATO member states into Russia to buy gas rather than into the military and defense systems that might have prevented the bloodbath in Ukraine. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/merkels-lack-of-regrets-illustrates-the-fallacies-of-germanys-russia-policy https://www.brookings.edu/articles/merkels-lack-of-regrets-i... https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/11/trump-germany-russia-merkel-714066 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/11/trump-germany-russ... https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-trump-merkel-showdown/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-tr...
- chvid 1y agoEurope should be leading the diplomatic efforts towards Russia, not the US. This sort of rhetorics leads nowhere useful.
- askonomm 1y agoThis is a joke, right? Diplomacy is something Russians completely disregard, lie about, and only agree to do when they are the only one benefiting, and even then only until they decide to break whatever agreements were made, because they've done so every single time so far. How do you have any diplomacy with someone like that? You can't.
- chvid 1y agoRight now the US under Trump is leading the diplomatic efforts toward Russia. I think Europe and the Ukraine would have been better served with European leaders doing this.
- oezi 1y agoTrump is just rambling. His 24 hours to end the war was an election slogan. Putin only understands the language of power. European countries don't want Ukraine to lose but can't commit themselves to the billions it would cost to win.
- rich_sasha 1y agoRussia has reaffirmed Ukrainian territorial sovereignty in 1990s, after splitting along said boundaries, in return for concessions partly in their favour (Ukrainian nuclear disarmament), then invaded Ukraine. Twice. And that's ignoring tons of smaller violations - some of which are still pretty big. What deal can you make with someone who just doesn't stick to the deals they agree to?
- TiredOfLife 1y agoThen again in 2003. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Russian%E2%80%93Ukrainian_border https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Russian%E2%80%93...
- cpach 1y agoAlternative link, without paywall: https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/europe-no-longer-ignore-under-140513122.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/europe-no-longer-ignore-...
- throwaway_dang 1y agoIs there some reason Europeans should go to war to satisfy the desires of American organizations? Is there some reason European citizens should go to war to satisfy the desires of _political_ scientists - a dubious category at best? Or to put it another way - why don't the political scientists at these American organizations put on their fighting gear and go fight in Ukraine?
- cladopa 1y ago>Is there some reason Europeans should go to war to satisfy the desires of American organizations? That is the wrong question. The question is: Is there some reason Europeans should go to war when Russia invades a European country in order to annex it by force? The answer is yes. The reason is not letting force impose over things like democracy or rights. If Europeans do we(I am European) will become slaves. It happened multiple times: The Ottoman Empire, Napoleon or Hitler and Stalin. You don't have to explain that to a Polish person: They lived the occupation of Russia and Germany and all of them have family members that were exterminated by the germans first and then by the communists. Let alone they were subjugated over decades making then a puppet state of Russia making Russia richer and Poland poorer. If Europeans do not oppose the dictator Putin controlling Russia, next time we will have to fight against Russia, Ukraine(occupied by Russia) and Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan and all the new conquests(of the new Russian Empire) in the same way if you do not oppose the ottomans taking Constantinople, you will have to oppose them in Vienna, when they have become much stronger.
- throwaway_dang 1y agoWell I am Polish, and no, you don't have to explain it. But both America and Europe are very inconsistent on the matter; for example, the EU has placed something like 19 sanction packages on Russia. But it has placed none on Israel, despite the fact that Israel, since even just 2023, has bombed the Yemen president, invaded Lebanon, Syria and well, and killed large numbers of Palestinian people; I will let the lawyers discuss what variation of war crime that counts as. Furthermore, when Poland helped the US, the UK and Australia invade Afghanistan and Iraq there was apparently no concern about about turning people into slaves, occupation, making Afghanistan/Iraq poorer. Allow me to quote: An estimated over 940,000 people were killed by direct post-9/11 war violence in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, and Pakistan between 2001-2023. Of these, more than 432,000 were civilians. The number of people wounded or ill as a result of the conflicts is far higher, as is the number of civilians who died “indirectly,” as a result of wars’ destruction of economies, healthcare systems, infrastructure and the environment. An estimated 3.6-3.8 million people died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones, bringing the total death toll to at least 4.5-4.7 million and counting. https://costsofwar.watson.brown.edu/costs/human https://costsofwar.watson.brown.edu/costs/human Are you concerned about Western imperialism, and if not, why not? As a historical note, the equivocation between Soviet/Stalin and Hitler is at best inaccurate. If you're Polish, presumably you know about "General Plan Ost" that aimed to eradicate 85% of the Polish population and similar numbers of other Slavic nations; while Stalin was a terrible dictator (which even Putin has mentioned in interviews), the crimes of the Soviets against Poland pale in comparison. You can oppose Putin if you wish; but you will only destroy Europe's future, which the Americans will smile at as they buy up your industry and prosperity. Unfortunately, the hatred of Russians outweighs the Europe's comprehension of its own self interest.
- piskov 1y agoThat’s some far fetched piece (based on what is above the paywall). For jets argument you must first understand where Kaliningrad is: something akin to Alaska for US — open the map to see what European countries are invariably in between. Even if they crossed momentarily the air border (though there was no objective visual proof from either side, which is why the story died), supersonic jet is not like crusing at 20 mph: if you sway for several seconds you can easily graze some border. It is unprofessional but not impossible. As for a few drones: the key word is undentified. Yet the piece is titled: Europe is under Russian Attack. Meh
- scotty79 1y agoDon't you believe those were russian drones intentionally sent?
- piskov 1y agoIt’s in the realm of probability but very thin for me. As always: the means, the benefits. How would Russia benefit? > EU leaders meeting in Copenhagen backed plans to strengthen European defenses, including a proposed "drone wall," after recent drone incursions over Denmark raised fears of Russian hybrid attacks. Officials said the initiative would focus on eastern airspace protection and sit alongside projects for eastern flank security, missile defense, and a space-based shield . Leaders also began a first formal debate on using frozen Russian assets in Europe to fund aid for Ukraine. Ah, those sweet-sweet frozen assets. Also see how this piece implies Russian without any proof. Also the more you fear monger the EU population, the more you can continue the war: which is money for some elites; redeemeer of economic recession for others, etc.: war is universal resetter for social/economic issues.
- scotty79 1y ago> As always: the means, the benefits. How would Russia benefit? Ah, they can't be behind it because they never, ever make mistakes and everything they ever do serves them somehow. In the meantime, in real world russia hasn't made a single good decision in almost 4 years. > Ah, those sweet-sweet frozen assets. Also see how this piece implies Russian without any proof. When you talk about mountain climbing you also silently imply that gravity exists. What's the alternative? > Also the more you fear monger the EU population, the more you can continue the war: It's not exactly fear mongering. Europe is gearing for war and I don't think even immediate russian surrender could stop it at this point. Europe will steamroll russia in the following decade or two. There are no decisions to be made anymore. Now the stage is fully set and history just plays out. The idea you can lay down arms up to the last moment before conflict is a pipe dream. It pretty much never happens.
- TrackerFF 1y agoMy take: The drone sightings is a mix of Russian ops, and copycat actors. The jets that violate airspace, are probably a mix of intentional close flying, under the plausible deniability that navigation jamming in the area causes them to cross into neighboring airspace. In the case of Russian aggression, it is to create more tension. Why on earth would Russia want to escalate this, you might ask? Well, now that pretty much every country west of their border is a NATO member, a Russian attack on NATO would likely trigger article 5. If Russia can provoke any NATO countries to attack first by, say, downing some airplane of theirs (fighter jets, recon, strategic bombers, etc.), they can use this as casus belli, and use it as propaganda. One thing Russia learned after 2022 was that any larger scale mobilization is incredibly unpopular. They can't mobilize millions of soldiers without any real cause, and march into the west. If they can sell the idea (with "proof") that NATO is actively attacking Russia, that's another thing. They're probably also banking on the fact that the heightened situation will scare people in the west, which in turn will make them vote for isolationist parties that don't want to commit. One thing is to talk about war, another thing is to actually see the writings on the wall. I don't think European NATO members can do much other than to just keep reinforcing and fortifying their borders, build up their armed forces as if Russia will invade tomorrow, and dig in. And keep hammering Russia with sanctions. The imperialist dreams of Russia is the expand into the ex-Soviet countries. They've tried election meddling, which worked to some degree, but I think they know that to achieve their goals, they need some larger conflict to happen - so that they can annex the desired areas when peace talks come up.
- bootsmann 1y ago> If Russia can provoke any NATO countries to attack first by, say, downing some airplane of theirs (fighter jets, recon, strategic bombers, etc.), they can use this as casus belli, and use it as propaganda. This has already happened, Turkey shot down a Russian jet in 2015, the Russian state very quickly tucked its tail in after that. The VKS can't afford to lose these planes willy-nilly.
- piva00 1y agoThe Turkish pilot who shot down was persecuted by Erdogan: > Erdoğan announced in an interview that the two Turkish pilots who downed Russian aircraft were arrested on suspicion that they have links to the Gülen movement, and that a court should find out "the truth". Russia didn't tuck its tail, they deployed SAMs to their Syrian base, they deployed the late Moskva in the region, and they pressured Erdogan to punish the pilot.
- akagusu 1y agoWhy was this flagged?
- _DeadFred_ 1y agoThe question is why does this remain flagged? We have daily Gaza threads, but war in Europe doesn't even rate a monthly one.
- GeoAtreides 1y agoHN flagging system is failing more and more, it needs to be revised
- thrance 1y agoBecause it angers the fascist right-wingers brigading any topic they dislike, among them support for Ukraine. Also the moderation is completely fine with this and hides between "remaining apolitical", or "avoiding divisive topics".
- simonsarris 1y agoRegarding the "why" of Russian drone/air shenanigans: I don't think Russia wants to get their expensive assets shot down or provoke a NATO-wide war. Many people seem to believe this but it presumes far too much. They don't gain from more fronts. They cannot realistically march into the west, they can't even march into west Ukraine. Realistically, Russia is doing these antics to force as many European countries as possible to feel that they need their air defense inventory (eg MIM-104 Patriot interceptor stock) for themselves, rather than giving or selling that inventory to Ukraine. That has immediate material benefit for the current Russian war effort with almost zero cost (assuming EU countries don't shoot down anything important).
- dvfjsdhgfv 1y agoMay be. During the meeting with EU diplomats in Moscow they were allegedly told the recent incidents are a payback for Ukraine's attack on Crimea. The diplomats didn't comment on that, though.
- tim333 1y agoThere's been fighting over Crimea for years. It doesn't ring true as a cause of new behavior. One thing that is new though is Russians waiting in mile long lines for petrol while they watch their refineries explode. Moscow may be trying to widen the war as a domestic distraction from that not looking good. At least if they mix it up with NATO they can say sorry we're in a war with NATO rather than the embarrassment of we picked on a country 1/4 our size and now they are beating us.
- dvfjsdhgfv 1y ago> we picked on a country 1/4 our size 1/28th rather.
- tim333 1y agoI'm not sure Europe is ignoring it. In a recent WSJ headline: >Europe’s Emerging Plan: Give Ukraine $200 Billion in Russian Money https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/europes-emerging-plan-give-ukraine-200-billion-in-russian-money-afea865f?st=wmztK4&reflink=article_email_share https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/europes-emerging-plan-give-...