6 ms·

The UK has been doing this sort of stuff for at least a decade. For example they have the PIPCU which under the guise of copyright threatens 10 years in prison

The UK has been doing this sort of stuff for at least a decade. For example they have the PIPCU which under the guise of copyright threatens 10 years in prison for sites not even in their jurisdiction. https://torrentfreak.com/uk-police-launch-campaign-to-shut-down-torrent-sites-130604/ https://torrentfreak.com/uk-police-launch-campaign-to-shut-d... And with that, they have at the least gotten registrars not located in their jurisdicrion to transfer domains https://easydns.com/blog/2013/10/08/whatever-happened-to-due-process/ https://easydns.com/blog/2013/10/08/whatever-happened-to-due...

matt-p 1y ago
So has alot of Europe to be fair, I think it's a cultural thing honestly.
- KaiserPro 1y ago
  Wait, so you can host a torrent site in the USA and not get your domain ceased by the FBI?
  - nadermx 1y ago
    If you follow the DMCA I don't see why not.
    - dragonwriter 1y ago
      The category of civil liability for which the compliance with the DMCA notice and takedown rules offers a safe harbor, first of all, doesn’t overlap with the conduct which constitutes criminal infringement but, more importantly, even if it did the DMCA safe harbor only applies to civil and not criminal liability in the first place. “Following the DMCA” is irrelevant to anything the FBI would be involved in.
      - nadermx 1y ago
        The DMCA absolutely applies. If you follow it, which includes no induction or willfull infrigment, you never rise out of civil liability to criminal. The FBI gets involved once you're past that.
        otterley 1y ago
        This is not true. The DMCA’s “safe harbor” provisions do not provide any sort of bulwark against criminal prosecution. Only against civil liability and injunctive relief.
        nadermx 1y ago
        If you follow the DMCA (e.g., honor takedown notices, register an agent if you’re a platform, and act quickly when notified), your exposure to criminal liability is essentially zero.
    - otterley 1y ago
      Because the DMCA’s safe-harbor provisions only apply to sites that adhere to its requirements. Sites whose primary purpose is to host torrent files or infohashes arguably don’t qualify. If the DMCA allowed US operators to host torrent catalogs openly, there’d be a plethora of them.
      - nadermx 1y ago
        The US does allow it. No one has tried it without trying to induce cipyright infrigment or following the DMCA properly. Also its hard and extremely expensive to defend yourself to prove it in a niche specifically where people are looking not to pay making it harder to montize to defend properly.
        otterley 1y ago
        > No one has tried it without trying to induce cipyright [sic] infrigment or following the DMCA properly. Why do you think that is?
        nadermx 1y ago
        Because this is the only relevant case I can find or remember. "The MPAA had presented evidence showing that the majority of content linked to on IsoHunt was infringing content, that the search engine was tuned to assist users in finding infringing works, and that Fung himself had made remarks suggesting the purpose of the site was to allow users to download infringing content." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IsoHunt https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IsoHunt
        otterley 1y ago
        My question was "why do you think torrent sites in the USA that adhere to safe-harbor requirements don't exist?"
        nadermx 1y ago
        Simple, because I haven't launched one yet, but may get there sooner or later; First had to deal with another novel issue of copyright first. https://torrentfreak.com/tag/yout/ https://torrentfreak.com/tag/yout/
  - matt-p 1y ago
    No because torrenting is anti-capitalism and that's not tolerated culturally (Communist behaviour). However I doubt they'll be blocking WhatsApp and iMessage any time soon, or making people upload their ID to watch "adult content".
    - potatototoo99 1y ago
      They just forced TikTok US to be sold to a US company with a US commissar as a board member.
      - account42 1y ago
        That's because TikTok facilitated criticism of their ((greatest ally)).
    - happymellon 1y ago
      > However I doubt they'll be [...] making people upload their ID to watch "adult content". https://www.google.com/search?q=texas%20porn%20law https://www.google.com/search?q=texas%20porn%20law
- tjpnz 1y ago
  Europe isn't a cultural monolith. This is an issue of MEP accountability and transparency. Look no further than Chat Control to see how far they're going to ensure that the people in favor of it remain nameless.
kimixa 1y ago
The US has always claimed jurisdiction on foreign-hosted but US-accessible content. Do people forget the owner of Megaupload being extradited? In many ways this is just catching up to the current US state. And there's a lot of confusion here between basic consumer data protection laws and (IMHO massively overreaching) "Online Safety" laws. This isn't Imgur making a stand for free speech, this is Imgur wanting to track and sell user data - to which minors cannot consent. Putting on my tinfoil hat you could argue that many of these companies are trying to encourage this misunderstanding intentionally.
- nadermx 1y ago
  Megaupload is a weird one. He hosted in it the USA, giving USA jurisidction. Also it's still going through the courts in New Zeland and USA and hasn't been proven hes guilty. And if I recall he did alledge he followed the DMCA, which if he ever is extradited might save him if it is in fact true.
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    > And if I recall he did alledge he followed the DMCA, which if he ever is extradited might save him if it is in fact true. It 100% won’t; there is no DMCA safe harbor for criminal conduct, only for a narrow category of civil liability.
    - nadermx 1y ago
      You are misapropriating. Copyright infrigment can become criminal if you willfully violate it. If you then take earnings from the willful infrigment and launder them, it becomes other crimes. But if you follow the DMCA and qualify for safe harbor, what copyright crime have you commited that would go to criminal? Or to give you another example in backpage the founders where aquitted since the judge could not trace that the money came from a "criminal source" https://www.courthousenews.com/backpage-executives-acquitted-of-previous-prostitution-money-laundering-convictions/ https://www.courthousenews.com/backpage-executives-acquitted...

matt-p 1y ago

So has alot of Europe to be fair, I think it's a cultural thing honestly.

KaiserPro 1y ago
Wait, so you can host a torrent site in the USA and not get your domain ceased by the FBI?
- nadermx 1y ago
  If you follow the DMCA I don't see why not.
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    The category of civil liability for which the compliance with the DMCA notice and takedown rules offers a safe harbor, first of all, doesn’t overlap with the conduct which constitutes criminal infringement but, more importantly, even if it did the DMCA safe harbor only applies to civil and not criminal liability in the first place. “Following the DMCA” is irrelevant to anything the FBI would be involved in.
    - nadermx 1y ago
      The DMCA absolutely applies. If you follow it, which includes no induction or willfull infrigment, you never rise out of civil liability to criminal. The FBI gets involved once you're past that.
      - otterley 1y ago
        This is not true. The DMCA’s “safe harbor” provisions do not provide any sort of bulwark against criminal prosecution. Only against civil liability and injunctive relief.
        nadermx 1y ago
        If you follow the DMCA (e.g., honor takedown notices, register an agent if you’re a platform, and act quickly when notified), your exposure to criminal liability is essentially zero.
  - otterley 1y ago
    Because the DMCA’s safe-harbor provisions only apply to sites that adhere to its requirements. Sites whose primary purpose is to host torrent files or infohashes arguably don’t qualify. If the DMCA allowed US operators to host torrent catalogs openly, there’d be a plethora of them.
    - nadermx 1y ago
      The US does allow it. No one has tried it without trying to induce cipyright infrigment or following the DMCA properly. Also its hard and extremely expensive to defend yourself to prove it in a niche specifically where people are looking not to pay making it harder to montize to defend properly.
      - otterley 1y ago
        > No one has tried it without trying to induce cipyright [sic] infrigment or following the DMCA properly. Why do you think that is?
        nadermx 1y ago
        Because this is the only relevant case I can find or remember. "The MPAA had presented evidence showing that the majority of content linked to on IsoHunt was infringing content, that the search engine was tuned to assist users in finding infringing works, and that Fung himself had made remarks suggesting the purpose of the site was to allow users to download infringing content." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IsoHunt https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IsoHunt
        otterley 1y ago
        My question was "why do you think torrent sites in the USA that adhere to safe-harbor requirements don't exist?"
        nadermx 1y ago
        Simple, because I haven't launched one yet, but may get there sooner or later; First had to deal with another novel issue of copyright first. https://torrentfreak.com/tag/yout/ https://torrentfreak.com/tag/yout/
- matt-p 1y ago
  No because torrenting is anti-capitalism and that's not tolerated culturally (Communist behaviour). However I doubt they'll be blocking WhatsApp and iMessage any time soon, or making people upload their ID to watch "adult content".
  - potatototoo99 1y ago
    They just forced TikTok US to be sold to a US company with a US commissar as a board member.
    - account42 1y ago
      That's because TikTok facilitated criticism of their ((greatest ally)).
  - happymellon 1y ago
    > However I doubt they'll be [...] making people upload their ID to watch "adult content". https://www.google.com/search?q=texas%20porn%20law https://www.google.com/search?q=texas%20porn%20law
tjpnz 1y ago
Europe isn't a cultural monolith. This is an issue of MEP accountability and transparency. Look no further than Chat Control to see how far they're going to ensure that the people in favor of it remain nameless.

kimixa 1y ago

The US has always claimed jurisdiction on foreign-hosted but US-accessible content. Do people forget the owner of Megaupload being extradited? In many ways this is just catching up to the current US state. And there's a lot of confusion here between basic consumer data protection laws and (IMHO massively overreaching) "Online Safety" laws. This isn't Imgur making a stand for free speech, this is Imgur wanting to track and sell user data - to which minors cannot consent. Putting on my tinfoil hat you could argue that many of these companies are trying to encourage this misunderstanding intentionally.

nadermx 1y ago
Megaupload is a weird one. He hosted in it the USA, giving USA jurisidction. Also it's still going through the courts in New Zeland and USA and hasn't been proven hes guilty. And if I recall he did alledge he followed the DMCA, which if he ever is extradited might save him if it is in fact true.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  > And if I recall he did alledge he followed the DMCA, which if he ever is extradited might save him if it is in fact true. It 100% won’t; there is no DMCA safe harbor for criminal conduct, only for a narrow category of civil liability.
  - nadermx 1y ago
    You are misapropriating. Copyright infrigment can become criminal if you willfully violate it. If you then take earnings from the willful infrigment and launder them, it becomes other crimes. But if you follow the DMCA and qualify for safe harbor, what copyright crime have you commited that would go to criminal? Or to give you another example in backpage the founders where aquitted since the judge could not trace that the money came from a "criminal source" https://www.courthousenews.com/backpage-executives-acquitted-of-previous-prostitution-money-laundering-convictions/ https://www.courthousenews.com/backpage-executives-acquitted...