8 ms·

It feels like Intel and AMD are asleep at the wheel with their mobile lineup. I've been looking at non-apple equivalents that have similar performance/power as

It feels like Intel and AMD are asleep at the wheel with their mobile lineup. I've been looking at non-apple equivalents that have similar performance/power as the M lineup and it seems they all lag about 20%+. For $800 the M4 Air just seems like one of the best tech deals around.

hu3 1y ago
> For $800 the M4 Air just seems like one of the best tech deals around. Only if you don't mind macOS.
- matdehaast 1y ago
  And therein lies the problem. Apple has managed to push a hardware advantage into something that makes a difference.
- apercu 1y ago
  I used to not, but it’s getting worse and worse. Still better than all the alternatives for someone like me that has to straddle clients expecting MS Office, gives me a *nix out of the box, and can run logic, reaper , MainStage.
  - jijijijij 1y ago
    > gives me a *nix out of the box, and can run logic, reaper , MainStage. Reaper has a native Linux client. Logic and MainStage... are you serious? :D
- CharlesW 1y ago
  I understand the point you're making, but FWIW I run Windows and Linux under Parallels and it works great. Colima/Lima is excellent, too: https://github.com/abiosoft/colima https://github.com/abiosoft/colima Windows on ARM performance is near native when run under macOS. `virtiofs` mounts aren't nearly as fast as native Linux filesystem access, but Colima/Lima can be very fast if you (for example) move build artifacts and dependency caches inside the VM.
  - traceroute66 1y ago
    There's also UTM, available free for download or you can make a donation to the devs by purchasing it from the App Store.
  - jijijijij 1y ago
    > I understand the point you're making, but FWIW I run Windows and Linux under Parallels and it works great. See, that's where the MacOS shitshow begins: Parallels costs €189.99 and it looks like they are pushing towards subscriptions. I am not in the ecosystem, but Parallels is the only hypervisor I've ever seen recommended. Another example is Little Snitch. Beloved and recommended Firewall. Just 59€! (IIRC, MacOS doesn't even respect user network configuration, when it comes to Apple services, e.g. bypassing VPN setups...) Now, don't get me wrong, I am certain there are ways around it, but Apple people really need to introspect what it commonly means to run a frictionless MacOS. It's pretty ridiculous, especially coming from Linux. I mean c'mon... paying for a firewall and hypervisor? Even running proprietary binaries for these kind of OS-level features seems moderately insane.
  - ruszki 1y ago
    > Colima/Lima is excellent Except when you need something like UDP ports, for example. I tried it for 2-3 weeks, but I always encountered similar issues. At the end I just started to use custom Alpine VMs with UTM, and run Docker inside them. All networking configured with pf.
kwanbix 1y ago
If you are OK with the closed apple ecosystem, sure, but I mean, 20% is not that much for 99% of the population. Don't get me wrong, I really admire what apple has done with the M CPUs, but I personally prefer the freedom of being able to install linux, bsd, windows, and even weirder OSes like Haiku.
- jamespo 1y ago
  I'd like to have haiku as a boot option, but how well does it work on modern laptop hardware?
- dijit 1y ago
  I keep hearing this, but I'd venture that a majority of those making it will most likely end up on Windows full time anyway. Which is not materially worse than MacOS, no matter how much MacOS is shooting themselves in the foot.
  - davrosthedalek 1y ago
    With WSL2, Windows is better, sad, but true.
    - dijit 1y ago
      Hahahahhahahahahhahahahahaha No. Even if it was better than lima (and the builtin posix/unix environment), which: it ain’t, it doesn’t nearly make a dent in the mandatory online account, copilot shit and all the rest.
    - illusive4080 1y ago
      This is a very subjective take. If you like Windows, you’ll find it better with WSL2. In fact, I see many developers at my org who claim they’ll switch to Windows (from Mac) when we make it available internally. However, if you love Mac, you'll never find Windows palpable no matter what. And then there’s all shades of gray.
    - planb 1y ago
      You may like Windows better, but WSL2 is just a virtual machine with all the downsides (slower, no docker) that brings . In fact, on my windows PC I still use WSL1 for that reason.
bhouston 1y ago
I use a MacBook Air 15" has my full stack main development machine. It is just light and portable on the go. At home I just plug it into a docking station with 10 GigE and output to a 48" OLED monitor - a beautiful setup.
- robbinb 1y ago
  just curious what brand etc monitor and docking station you're using here.
  - bhouston 1y ago
    I have had really good experience with OWC docking stations - rock solid compared to Dell ones I've had in the past: https://www.owc.com/solutions/connectivity https://www.owc.com/solutions/connectivity I won't recommend my monitor because it has auto-dimming you can not turn off. Good but not great.
  - littlecranky67 1y ago
    Not the OP, but I use my Macbook Pro M4 with a 5-year old Dell TB19 Thunderbolt dock (not the usb-c one!). I have 2x 1080p screens aged 10+years connected to the dock, and I use the Macbook as 3rd display and the keyboard of the laptop as my daily driver. I've used the very same setup with my 2019 MBP so I assume the M4 Air can handle it too.
criddell 1y ago
> it seems they all lag about 20% So they are about one generation behind? That's not bad really. What's the AMD or Intel chip equivalent to the M2 or M3? Is somebody making a fanless laptop with it?
- Rohansi 1y ago
  Apple is also always at least one generation ahead on the process/lithography too because they buy out all of the initial capacity. That alone accounts for a decent chunk of the difference. I don't think the market is there for fanless non-Mac laptops. Most people would rather have a budget system (no $ for proper passive cooling) or more powerful system.
  - criddell 1y ago
    > Most people would rather have a budget system The low end of the market is for sure bigger but I think Apple has shown that the higher end can be profitable too. Dell, HP, Lenovo, and the other big laptop makers aren't afraid of having a thousand different SKUs. They could add one more for a higher end machine that's fanless.
    - Rohansi 1y ago
      Most of those SKUs are component swaps. A proper passively cooled laptop would require a completely different chassis design to act as an extension of the heatsink. I bought a MacBook Air because it was cheaper and met my needs. Being passively cooled was just a nice bonus.
      - criddell 1y ago
        As someone who has been buying Think Pads for the past 20 years, Lenovo needs to spend more time working on thermals anyway. If I don't power my laptop down before stuffing it in my backpack, I'll have a hot, almost dead machine by the time I get to my destination.
        1y ago
cosmic_cheese 1y ago
The reduced horsepower relative to M-series isn't a problem for me as much as efficiency is. Both Intel and AMD seem to struggle with building a CPU that doesn't guzzle battery without also seriously restricting performance. This really sucks. The nice thing about high end (Mx Pro/Max) MBPs is that if you need desktop-like power, it's there, but they can also do a pretty good job pretending to be MacBook Airs and stretch that 100Wh battery far further than is possible with similarly powerful x86 laptops. This affects ultraportables too, though. A MacBook Air performs well in bursts and only becomes limited in sustained tasks, but competing laptops don't even do burst very well and still need active cooling to boot. On the desktop front I think AMD has been killing it but both companies need to start from scratch for laptops.
- rapind 1y ago
  > On the desktop front I think AMD has been killing it but both companies need to start from scratch for laptops. IMO Apple is killing it with the mac mini too. Obviously not if you're gaming (that has a lot to do with the OS though), but if you're OK with the OS, it's a powerhouse for the size, noise, and energy required.
  - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
    Yeah for most "normal" users the Mini is pretty ideal. It's got enough power that it's overkill for most folks while being the least intrusive a desktop could possibily be: it's tiny, it doesn't have a power brick, it doesn't make any noise, and it's not going to impact your power bill hardly at all.
    - whyoh 1y ago
      >it doesn't make any noise You can hear the fan at full load, especially on the M4 Pro. I really wish Apple went with a larger case and fan for that chip, which would allow quieter cooling. Also, many units are affected by idle (power supply) buzzing: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255853533?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255853533?sortBy=rank The Mac Mini is quieter than a typical PC, but it's not literally silent like, say, a smartphone.
remix2000 1y ago
Depends how you frame it; in my eyes, I'd be paying $1.4k USD after sales tax (at least here in the EU) for a laptop with measly 16 gigs of RAM… I could buy two normal laptops to outperform that for a price of one!
- bayindirh 1y ago
  Honestly asking, can you use either of them for a decade? From replacement parts and physical endurance perspective, I mean.
  - remix2000 1y ago
    I don't think it's realistic to expect any tech made in the twenties last a decade…
    - bayindirh 1y ago
      I still expect Mac and Thinkpad hardware to last a decade, sans their batteries. A good desktop PC made from better parts will also endure without much effort.
- criddell 1y ago
  If you use the $1.4k USD laptop for 2 years, that works out to around $2 / day. If it’s a Mac, it probably has some resale value at the end of the time bringing the cost down closer to $1 / day. For a work machine, that’s pretty easy to justify.
  - remix2000 1y ago
    I wouldn't expect an Apple product to last that long… This is from my personal experience and also family members who tried Apple, so your mileage may vary, I just wouldn't trust it. Ignoring that though, if work machine means an Excel machine, then it's probably overspending IMO. If work machine means workstation, then you'd probably rather want one of the >1.6k models with more working memory… or just don't go Apple.
franczesko 1y ago
AMD asleep? I didn't think this is accurate
- matdehaast 1y ago
  If you read the first half of the sentence then yeah.... The complete sentence clarifies "with their mobile lineup"
  - makeitdouble 1y ago
    The 395 max is in laptops and slots between the M3 and M4 on geekbench scores. That's not top of the line, but a decent result IMHO.
pizza234 1y ago
Each Ryzen generation increased performance significantly, so AMD is definitely not asleep at the wheel.
- matdehaast 1y ago
  I'm talking specifically about their mobile lineup, not desktop. And more specifically the performance to power efficiency the M series is getting. It is more than 2 generations behind.
  - pizza234 1y ago
    Each Ryzen mobile generation also improved efficiency, in particularly the last generation (AI PRO 300). Intel, on the other hand, started a few generation ago with an edge in terms of efficiency, and now they're behind; they are definitely the one that fell asleep. The fact that ARM may have unreachable efficiency doesn't mean that AMD, as x86 producer, is doing nothing.
satellite2 1y ago
For the same price you have an AMD Ryzen AI 9 365 which has 50% higher performance in cpubenchmark
- matdehaast 1y ago
  Think you are mistaken. The M4 beats the Ryzen AI 365 in both single and multicore benchmarks
  - satellite2 1y ago
    M4 23884 365 29861 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id... https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+AI+9+365&id=6180 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+AI+9+365&...
    - matdehaast 1y ago
      Interesting, on Geekbench they have very different scoring 365: 2515/12552 M4: 3763/14694 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/amd-ryzen-ai-9-365 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/amd-ryzen-ai-9-365 https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/11020192 https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/11020192
      - lostmsu 1y ago
        395 is still higher on Geekbench at 2781/17644
    - FootballMuse 1y ago
      Passmark is an outdated benchmark not well optimized for ARM. Even so the single thread marks are 3864 (AI365) vs 4550 (M4) OTOH, Geekbench correlates (0.99) with SPEC standards, the industry standard in CPU benchmark and what enterprise companies such as AWS use to judge a CPU performance. https://medium.com/silicon-reimagined/performance-delivered-a-new-way-part-2-geekbench-versus-spec-4ddac45dcf03 https://medium.com/silicon-reimagined/performance-delivered-...
mrheosuper 1y ago
>$800 the M4 Air just seems like one of the best tech deals Not at all, you are stuck with a machine that has only 256GB of ssd(and not upgradeable) and 60hz LCD screen, also only 2 IO ports. the M4 maybe the best mobile CPU, but that does not mean it will make every machine with it the best.
- littlecranky67 1y ago
  As an owner of an Macbook Pro M4 I am actually looking to sell and downgrade to the Air - because during my day-to-day developing I can't get close to utilizing the M4. Regarding the limitations: 256GB is enough for me, because 95% of the time I use my Macbook docked into my Thunderbolt dock, where I have an external drive (also for Timemachine backups) so plenty of space for big files that I rarely use of can do without on the go. That also solves the limitation of I/O ports, because the Dock brings plenty of USB ports (plus the ones from my screens which are connected to the Dock). Not sure why 60Hz is a limitation, I've been on 60Hz for 20 years+, outside of gaming I do not see any value in going higher.
  - sgarland 1y ago
    I went from a base M1 Air to a mid-spec’d M4 Pro. My main reasons were the 14” screen size, and the lack of a wedge shape for the new Airs (I loved the wedge). IMO, 14” is the perfect size for a laptop that actually sees time in your lap. My 13” Air was fine, but the extra inch is just enough to make a difference, while not feeling overly bulky. Re: refresh rate, it’s nice, but I wouldn’t miss it most of the time. I have my external monitor for my work M3 running at 120 Hz because I can, not because I need it.
  - mrheosuper 1y ago
    Not everyone has the luxury of having a rigid setup, that you can just plug in your dock and good to go. In fact, if that is your usecase, mac mini is a much better option.
    - littlecranky67 1y ago
foresterre 1y ago
I find this usually doesn't matter as much as you seem to suggest. I've been running linux laptops with AMD/intel for years, and while some focus on more battery life would be welcome, the cpu never bothered me. My primary limiation is available RAM (esp. when debugging react native against a complete local docker setup), which unfortunately on both AMD/Intel but far more so on Apple is usually limited to higher compute CPU's, which drives up cost of laptop (not even including the extra cost of RAM on Apple). The only really locally CPU intensive processes I run on a laptop are Rust builds, and then still I would prioritize RAM over CPU if that would be possible, because Rust builds are fast enough, especially when incrementally compiling (and I almost never do lto release-like builds locally unless doing benchmarking or profiling work)
- IshKebab 1y ago
  > Rust builds are fast enough I love Rust but I think you might be the first person to say that!
jeswin 1y ago
> I've been looking at non-apple equivalents that have similar performance/power as the M lineup and it seems they all lag about 20%+. Most of it can be explained away with TSMC. If you compared Apple's 5nm parts (M2), with AMD's 4nm parts, you'll see the performance swing in just about the same magnitude but in favor of AMD. M5 is 3rd gen 3nm.

hu3 1y ago

> For $800 the M4 Air just seems like one of the best tech deals around. Only if you don't mind macOS.

matdehaast 1y ago
And therein lies the problem. Apple has managed to push a hardware advantage into something that makes a difference.
apercu 1y ago
I used to not, but it’s getting worse and worse. Still better than all the alternatives for someone like me that has to straddle clients expecting MS Office, gives me a *nix out of the box, and can run logic, reaper , MainStage.
- jijijijij 1y ago
  > gives me a *nix out of the box, and can run logic, reaper , MainStage. Reaper has a native Linux client. Logic and MainStage... are you serious? :D
CharlesW 1y ago
I understand the point you're making, but FWIW I run Windows and Linux under Parallels and it works great. Colima/Lima is excellent, too: https://github.com/abiosoft/colima https://github.com/abiosoft/colima Windows on ARM performance is near native when run under macOS. `virtiofs` mounts aren't nearly as fast as native Linux filesystem access, but Colima/Lima can be very fast if you (for example) move build artifacts and dependency caches inside the VM.
- traceroute66 1y ago
  There's also UTM, available free for download or you can make a donation to the devs by purchasing it from the App Store.
- jijijijij 1y ago
  > I understand the point you're making, but FWIW I run Windows and Linux under Parallels and it works great. See, that's where the MacOS shitshow begins: Parallels costs €189.99 and it looks like they are pushing towards subscriptions. I am not in the ecosystem, but Parallels is the only hypervisor I've ever seen recommended. Another example is Little Snitch. Beloved and recommended Firewall. Just 59€! (IIRC, MacOS doesn't even respect user network configuration, when it comes to Apple services, e.g. bypassing VPN setups...) Now, don't get me wrong, I am certain there are ways around it, but Apple people really need to introspect what it commonly means to run a frictionless MacOS. It's pretty ridiculous, especially coming from Linux. I mean c'mon... paying for a firewall and hypervisor? Even running proprietary binaries for these kind of OS-level features seems moderately insane.
- ruszki 1y ago
  > Colima/Lima is excellent Except when you need something like UDP ports, for example. I tried it for 2-3 weeks, but I always encountered similar issues. At the end I just started to use custom Alpine VMs with UTM, and run Docker inside them. All networking configured with pf.

kwanbix 1y ago

If you are OK with the closed apple ecosystem, sure, but I mean, 20% is not that much for 99% of the population. Don't get me wrong, I really admire what apple has done with the M CPUs, but I personally prefer the freedom of being able to install linux, bsd, windows, and even weirder OSes like Haiku.

jamespo 1y ago
I'd like to have haiku as a boot option, but how well does it work on modern laptop hardware?
dijit 1y ago
I keep hearing this, but I'd venture that a majority of those making it will most likely end up on Windows full time anyway. Which is not materially worse than MacOS, no matter how much MacOS is shooting themselves in the foot.
- davrosthedalek 1y ago
  With WSL2, Windows is better, sad, but true.
  - dijit 1y ago
    Hahahahhahahahahhahahahahaha No. Even if it was better than lima (and the builtin posix/unix environment), which: it ain’t, it doesn’t nearly make a dent in the mandatory online account, copilot shit and all the rest.
  - illusive4080 1y ago
    This is a very subjective take. If you like Windows, you’ll find it better with WSL2. In fact, I see many developers at my org who claim they’ll switch to Windows (from Mac) when we make it available internally. However, if you love Mac, you'll never find Windows palpable no matter what. And then there’s all shades of gray.
  - planb 1y ago
    You may like Windows better, but WSL2 is just a virtual machine with all the downsides (slower, no docker) that brings . In fact, on my windows PC I still use WSL1 for that reason.

bhouston 1y ago

I use a MacBook Air 15" has my full stack main development machine. It is just light and portable on the go. At home I just plug it into a docking station with 10 GigE and output to a 48" OLED monitor - a beautiful setup.

robbinb 1y ago
just curious what brand etc monitor and docking station you're using here.
- bhouston 1y ago
  I have had really good experience with OWC docking stations - rock solid compared to Dell ones I've had in the past: https://www.owc.com/solutions/connectivity https://www.owc.com/solutions/connectivity I won't recommend my monitor because it has auto-dimming you can not turn off. Good but not great.
- littlecranky67 1y ago
  Not the OP, but I use my Macbook Pro M4 with a 5-year old Dell TB19 Thunderbolt dock (not the usb-c one!). I have 2x 1080p screens aged 10+years connected to the dock, and I use the Macbook as 3rd display and the keyboard of the laptop as my daily driver. I've used the very same setup with my 2019 MBP so I assume the M4 Air can handle it too.

criddell 1y ago

> it seems they all lag about 20% So they are about one generation behind? That's not bad really. What's the AMD or Intel chip equivalent to the M2 or M3? Is somebody making a fanless laptop with it?

Rohansi 1y ago
Apple is also always at least one generation ahead on the process/lithography too because they buy out all of the initial capacity. That alone accounts for a decent chunk of the difference. I don't think the market is there for fanless non-Mac laptops. Most people would rather have a budget system (no $ for proper passive cooling) or more powerful system.
- criddell 1y ago
  > Most people would rather have a budget system The low end of the market is for sure bigger but I think Apple has shown that the higher end can be profitable too. Dell, HP, Lenovo, and the other big laptop makers aren't afraid of having a thousand different SKUs. They could add one more for a higher end machine that's fanless.
  - Rohansi 1y ago
    Most of those SKUs are component swaps. A proper passively cooled laptop would require a completely different chassis design to act as an extension of the heatsink. I bought a MacBook Air because it was cheaper and met my needs. Being passively cooled was just a nice bonus.
    - criddell 1y ago
      As someone who has been buying Think Pads for the past 20 years, Lenovo needs to spend more time working on thermals anyway. If I don't power my laptop down before stuffing it in my backpack, I'll have a hot, almost dead machine by the time I get to my destination.
      - 1y ago

cosmic_cheese 1y ago

The reduced horsepower relative to M-series isn't a problem for me as much as efficiency is. Both Intel and AMD seem to struggle with building a CPU that doesn't guzzle battery without also seriously restricting performance. This really sucks. The nice thing about high end (Mx Pro/Max) MBPs is that if you need desktop-like power, it's there, but they can also do a pretty good job pretending to be MacBook Airs and stretch that 100Wh battery far further than is possible with similarly powerful x86 laptops. This affects ultraportables too, though. A MacBook Air performs well in bursts and only becomes limited in sustained tasks, but competing laptops don't even do burst very well and still need active cooling to boot. On the desktop front I think AMD has been killing it but both companies need to start from scratch for laptops.

rapind 1y ago
> On the desktop front I think AMD has been killing it but both companies need to start from scratch for laptops. IMO Apple is killing it with the mac mini too. Obviously not if you're gaming (that has a lot to do with the OS though), but if you're OK with the OS, it's a powerhouse for the size, noise, and energy required.
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  Yeah for most "normal" users the Mini is pretty ideal. It's got enough power that it's overkill for most folks while being the least intrusive a desktop could possibily be: it's tiny, it doesn't have a power brick, it doesn't make any noise, and it's not going to impact your power bill hardly at all.
  - whyoh 1y ago
    >it doesn't make any noise You can hear the fan at full load, especially on the M4 Pro. I really wish Apple went with a larger case and fan for that chip, which would allow quieter cooling. Also, many units are affected by idle (power supply) buzzing: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255853533?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255853533?sortBy=rank The Mac Mini is quieter than a typical PC, but it's not literally silent like, say, a smartphone.

remix2000 1y ago

Depends how you frame it; in my eyes, I'd be paying $1.4k USD after sales tax (at least here in the EU) for a laptop with measly 16 gigs of RAM… I could buy two normal laptops to outperform that for a price of one!

bayindirh 1y ago
Honestly asking, can you use either of them for a decade? From replacement parts and physical endurance perspective, I mean.
- remix2000 1y ago
  I don't think it's realistic to expect any tech made in the twenties last a decade…
  - bayindirh 1y ago
    I still expect Mac and Thinkpad hardware to last a decade, sans their batteries. A good desktop PC made from better parts will also endure without much effort.
criddell 1y ago
If you use the $1.4k USD laptop for 2 years, that works out to around $2 / day. If it’s a Mac, it probably has some resale value at the end of the time bringing the cost down closer to $1 / day. For a work machine, that’s pretty easy to justify.
- remix2000 1y ago
  I wouldn't expect an Apple product to last that long… This is from my personal experience and also family members who tried Apple, so your mileage may vary, I just wouldn't trust it. Ignoring that though, if work machine means an Excel machine, then it's probably overspending IMO. If work machine means workstation, then you'd probably rather want one of the >1.6k models with more working memory… or just don't go Apple.

franczesko 1y ago

AMD asleep? I didn't think this is accurate

matdehaast 1y ago
If you read the first half of the sentence then yeah.... The complete sentence clarifies "with their mobile lineup"
- makeitdouble 1y ago
  The 395 max is in laptops and slots between the M3 and M4 on geekbench scores. That's not top of the line, but a decent result IMHO.

pizza234 1y ago

Each Ryzen generation increased performance significantly, so AMD is definitely not asleep at the wheel.

matdehaast 1y ago
I'm talking specifically about their mobile lineup, not desktop. And more specifically the performance to power efficiency the M series is getting. It is more than 2 generations behind.
- pizza234 1y ago
  Each Ryzen mobile generation also improved efficiency, in particularly the last generation (AI PRO 300). Intel, on the other hand, started a few generation ago with an edge in terms of efficiency, and now they're behind; they are definitely the one that fell asleep. The fact that ARM may have unreachable efficiency doesn't mean that AMD, as x86 producer, is doing nothing.

satellite2 1y ago

For the same price you have an AMD Ryzen AI 9 365 which has 50% higher performance in cpubenchmark

matdehaast 1y ago
Think you are mistaken. The M4 beats the Ryzen AI 365 in both single and multicore benchmarks
- satellite2 1y ago
  M4 23884 365 29861 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id=6040 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M4+10+Core&id... https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+AI+9+365&id=6180 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+AI+9+365&...
  - matdehaast 1y ago
    Interesting, on Geekbench they have very different scoring 365: 2515/12552 M4: 3763/14694 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/amd-ryzen-ai-9-365 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/amd-ryzen-ai-9-365 https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/11020192 https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/11020192
    - lostmsu 1y ago
      395 is still higher on Geekbench at 2781/17644
  - FootballMuse 1y ago
    Passmark is an outdated benchmark not well optimized for ARM. Even so the single thread marks are 3864 (AI365) vs 4550 (M4) OTOH, Geekbench correlates (0.99) with SPEC standards, the industry standard in CPU benchmark and what enterprise companies such as AWS use to judge a CPU performance. https://medium.com/silicon-reimagined/performance-delivered-a-new-way-part-2-geekbench-versus-spec-4ddac45dcf03 https://medium.com/silicon-reimagined/performance-delivered-...

mrheosuper 1y ago

>$800 the M4 Air just seems like one of the best tech deals Not at all, you are stuck with a machine that has only 256GB of ssd(and not upgradeable) and 60hz LCD screen, also only 2 IO ports. the M4 maybe the best mobile CPU, but that does not mean it will make every machine with it the best.

littlecranky67 1y ago
As an owner of an Macbook Pro M4 I am actually looking to sell and downgrade to the Air - because during my day-to-day developing I can't get close to utilizing the M4. Regarding the limitations: 256GB is enough for me, because 95% of the time I use my Macbook docked into my Thunderbolt dock, where I have an external drive (also for Timemachine backups) so plenty of space for big files that I rarely use of can do without on the go. That also solves the limitation of I/O ports, because the Dock brings plenty of USB ports (plus the ones from my screens which are connected to the Dock). Not sure why 60Hz is a limitation, I've been on 60Hz for 20 years+, outside of gaming I do not see any value in going higher.
- sgarland 1y ago
  I went from a base M1 Air to a mid-spec’d M4 Pro. My main reasons were the 14” screen size, and the lack of a wedge shape for the new Airs (I loved the wedge). IMO, 14” is the perfect size for a laptop that actually sees time in your lap. My 13” Air was fine, but the extra inch is just enough to make a difference, while not feeling overly bulky. Re: refresh rate, it’s nice, but I wouldn’t miss it most of the time. I have my external monitor for my work M3 running at 120 Hz because I can, not because I need it.
- mrheosuper 1y ago
  Not everyone has the luxury of having a rigid setup, that you can just plug in your dock and good to go. In fact, if that is your usecase, mac mini is a much better option.
  - littlecranky67 1y ago

foresterre 1y ago

I find this usually doesn't matter as much as you seem to suggest. I've been running linux laptops with AMD/intel for years, and while some focus on more battery life would be welcome, the cpu never bothered me. My primary limiation is available RAM (esp. when debugging react native against a complete local docker setup), which unfortunately on both AMD/Intel but far more so on Apple is usually limited to higher compute CPU's, which drives up cost of laptop (not even including the extra cost of RAM on Apple). The only really locally CPU intensive processes I run on a laptop are Rust builds, and then still I would prioritize RAM over CPU if that would be possible, because Rust builds are fast enough, especially when incrementally compiling (and I almost never do lto release-like builds locally unless doing benchmarking or profiling work)

IshKebab 1y ago
> Rust builds are fast enough I love Rust but I think you might be the first person to say that!

jeswin 1y ago

> I've been looking at non-apple equivalents that have similar performance/power as the M lineup and it seems they all lag about 20%+. Most of it can be explained away with TSMC. If you compared Apple's 5nm parts (M2), with AMD's 4nm parts, you'll see the performance swing in just about the same magnitude but in favor of AMD. M5 is 3rd gen 3nm.