16 ms·

The iPhone 5

131 points by spearo77 14y ago

akavlie 14y ago
Gruber says that "none of the competing phones on the market are made of metal". So what about the Lumia 800 (1)? Or the One S (2)? 1) http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/3/2534861/nokia-lumia-800-review http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/3/2534861/nokia-lumia-800-re... 2) http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/2/2916098/htc-one-s-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/2/2916098/htc-one-s-review
- ghshephard 14y ago
  From theVerge review on the Lumia800: "What you see and feel in your hand is a seamless piece of soft-touch plastic" From the Wikipedia Article: "A trough-colored unibody shell is made from polycarbonate plastic." And, Gruber had a demo-unit of the Lumia 800: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/04/03/ http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/04/03/
  - akavlie 14y ago
    Sorry, misread the review for the Lumia 800. I'd always been under the impression that the Lumia phones were anodized aluminum; turns out they're polycarbonate. Still, there's the One S, for... one. And that was just a quick find among the current crop of recommended phones; I wouldn't be surprised if there are others.
    - manojlds 14y ago
      Nokia N8 and E7, last flagship Nokias before the lumias, were made of Anodized Aluminium. I own the N8 and the N800 and both feel great in the hand.
- cooldeal 14y ago
  Don't know about the One X, but the Lumia is made out of strong polycarbonate(not metal), and actually feels very good in the hand, unlike the iPhone 4/4S metal glass seam that felt somewhat sharp to my hand. Also, if the polycarbonate scratches, it's the same color inside, so scratches are not very visible.
  - zobzu 14y ago
    i'd note that most heavy duty military equipment, including rifle bodies and several other parts are generally made of quality polycarbonate nowadays, because its lighter and arguably stronger than various metals (it's as rigid but not as brittle, and does not rust in any way)
- technoslut 14y ago
  You're right but you gave the wrong example. A good example would be the Xperia P. There are other phones as well with a metal shell.
- adnrw 14y ago
  His piece definitely said "none" when first published, but it has since been corrected: There’s also a marketing advantage: few[1] of the competing phones on the market are made of metal. [1: http://www.htc.com/www/smartphones/htc-radar/ http://www.htc.com/www/smartphones/htc-radar/]
- barrkel 14y ago
  I have no idea why a phone made out of glass and metal would be desirable in the least. Window frames are made out of glass and metal; should I desire one of those too? It makes me feel uncomfortably odd, but the iPhone elicits zero desire from me. If someone gave one to me for free, it would gather dust on my shelf.
tarungangwani 14y ago
Interesting to see both Gruber and Dalrymple find the taller screen and letter boxing to be troublesome. Though it will take some getting used to, the main stream press will certainly clamor over this being a largely negative move by Apple. Gotta love Gruber's continued adherence to succinct style and message. Makes for a great, consumable read.
stevedc3 14y ago
Gruber is an amazing writer. Blows away the other reviews.
- cracell 14y ago
  Gruber is a great writer but a terrible reviewer. His recent writing completely lacks any balance. It's obvious that he loves Apple and doesn't give a fair review. I don't have any issue with people liking Apple products but I don't understand why Hacker News upvotes his one-sided blog posts so highly.
  - nizmow 14y ago
    He's biased, but he DOES cater to his audience (who are also potentially biased). I was really curious to hear what he thought about the enlarged screen, for example, because I suspect his views and opinions closely align with my own.
  - prophetjohn 14y ago
    Exactly. His writing is way too sweet on Apple. I ordered the new iPhone and when I got to the end at the part where I'm supposed to buy it just because it says "iPhone" on the back, I was nearing the point of gagging. The rationalizing of why they would switch from 3.5" to 4" when they always make the right choices was particularly a low point for me, also. I guess I knew what I was getting myself into when I clicked the link, though. And shockingly, downvotes for calling a spade a spade.
    - glhaynes 14y ago
      From the linked article: There’s a reason why, just as with all five of its predecessors, it just says “iPhone” on the back. An awfully awkward sentence in a muddled closing, but in context he's not saying it's worth buying just because it says "iPhone". He's saying that they all have just said "iPhone" rather than additionally having the model number.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  Well, to be fair, Gruber is writing a love story here, not really an unbiased review. So, no, he doesn't blow away the other reviews, (As an unbiased review, Mossberg's is pretty good) but, for us lovers of all things Apple, his is the review we look for to give us that dopamine rush of reinforced sense of self worth from using Apple products. I've been hitting refresh every five minutes on daringfireball since 7:00. Note - I think his is the most well written of all the writeups so far. He put a lot of effort into this essay. I wish he did more like these, though I realize it must take a lot out of him. He also demonstrates a bit of useful insight/balance here, that you wouldn't expect from what should be a purely apple-biased review, e.g. from the section on displays "Apple has a lead here, which is interesting, because they buy these displays from companies like LG."
erickhill 14y ago
As an aside, has anyone a clue how iTunes is going to represent the new Retina 4 capable apps in the App Store? They now require screenshots of apps for iPhone (4), iPad and Retina 4 displays. Where are those going to appear, and how will people access them?
- cma 14y ago
  The level of fragmentation of display targets is approaching Android levels. The whole point of retina being a straight linear doubling of pixels was that you only had two device form factors to worry about: iPhone and iPad. Now you have to worry about iPhone, tall iPhone, iPad and, soon, mini-iPad (same aspect, but different physical/touch target size).
  - cageface 14y ago
    Yes. And not only that but the tools for handling this are much less powerful than Android's. Add to this the fact that you have to duplicate the entire xib/storyboard for each internationalization and suddenly you've got a shitload of drudge work on your hands.
  - nizmow 14y ago
    It's not nearly as bad as Android, if only because new display profiles mostly obsolete the old ones -- there's a clear progression. The mini-iPad, however, may be the first device to break this rule.
  - wmf 14y ago
    In theory you're supposed to develop for the hypothetical iPad mini exactly as if it was an iPad 2.
  - taligent 14y ago
    The Mini-iPad is widely expected to be 1024x768. So really there are only three display targets. iPhone, iPad and Tall iPhone.
    - cma 14y ago
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nizmow 14y ago
Great review. I'm disappointed that the screen size change is noticably awkward -- I was hoping it would be something that you'd get used to in a matter of minutes. I currently have a Galaxy Nexus and hitting the top left is impossible without two hands or hand contortion that leaves the device in serious risk of being dropped. Also, why on earth would Apple choose to have apps letterboxed in portrait mode? Wouldn't it make WAY more sense to align them on the bottom of the display, so that the keyboard would at least be in the same place across all applications? Here's hoping developers don't lag on updating their apps.
- veidr 14y ago
  I'm surprised by the screen size change, too; it has the drawback of reduced thumbability, but without seriously increasing readability. Because my Japanese iPhone 4S can't do tethering, and iOS maps/navigation is horrible, I just deal with carrying a Galaxy Nexus as well. The tradeoff is really simple; the iPhone lets you access the whole screen with your thumb, while the Nexus lets you see more usable info with your eyes. I found that I tended to pull out the Galaxy to read things (articles, this website, etc), even though the screen isn't as high-quality. Just because it is bigger. With the iPhone 5, it seems Apple traded away the thumb-awesome but just adding 176 pixels to the top doesn't get you much more reading-awesome.
- wvenable 14y ago
  Even with the letterboxing centered, it would still make more sense to always have the keyboard on the bottom -- then even old apps would benefit from a little more space when the keyboard is up.
  - nizmow 14y ago
    You're right, but I suspect there are software limitations with iOS that prevent this from happening, unfortunately.
- bobbles 14y ago
  It's most likely for the consistency within apps that can rotate to landscape and still have a keyboard displayed. Would you expect the app to then slide to the middle? Or stay aligned-left and make it harder for the right hand?
darkpicnic 14y ago
Funny, I've bought every iPhone to date except this one. In fact, I went out and bought a Galaxy Nexus instead. I did it because Apple's fascination with perfecting form and design has somehow morphed into this inability to innovate. The primary reason I switched was that one day, I opened up my home screen and realized it hasn't changed in 5 years. We still open apps one at a time, each app allotted a sort of pseudo background API that allows minimal functionality. And God those apps are pretty. And the FPS is amazing. And the fluidity of the experience is breathtaking... but at the end of the day, my device is about acquiring information. I want to know when my train is coming, I want to save map info when I don't have a connection, I want to know that when I leave for work and hit the subway, Pocket auto downloaded all those articles I saved for later. Apple still maintains the best hardware, hands down. It's not even comparable. But it's irrelevant if the apps that reside on that phone are completely crippled by a draconian sense of design and control. If the phone has a "workstation tower processor" inside it, why the hell can't they let up and let the thing actually PROCESS more information? I'll miss the beauty of it, that's for sure, but unless Apple gets its act together with background processing and figuring out how to actually do cloud anything right, I'm moving to Google.
- dmishe 14y ago
  >Pocket auto downloaded all those articles I saved for later. Good point, I have no idea why don't they just push to iOS devices on my account.
- eridius 14y ago
  > If the phone has a "workstation tower processor" inside it, why the hell can't they let up and let the thing actually PROCESS more information? Because of power. It may have "workstation tower processing" power, but it's not hooked up to a wall socket. Power consumption is the gigantic bugaboo that plagues mobile devices, and that (in my opinion) justifies Apple's policies about background processing on iOS.
  - majormajor 14y ago
    I wish they'd go further, though: how much battery life could Apple get out of an iPhone if they kept their great minimization and efficiency-maximization of the electronics going, but pulled back from the thinner-and-lighter-every-time mantra and devoted all the saved space to a bigger battery? An iPhone that's smaller than my still-pocketable non-Apple phone isn't that appealing to me (yay for having above-average-sized hands!). An iPhone that could go a week easily on a single charge would make me sit up and take notice, though.
d0m 14y ago
Personally, I'm disappointed. The thing is, I know I'm totally wrong because the iphone 5 is such a beautiful beast and probably the best smartphone out there. Still, what I liked the most about the iphone, and the ipad, and the macbook, was how innovative it was. Everything was new. New concepts, new icon, new look and feel.. a whole refreshing new feeling. I feel like the iphone5 is mostly a simple hardware update. I.e every now and then, I'll switch my old memory for a new one 2x faster. It's not innovative or original.. it's just faster memory. So, this is why I'm disappointed. Not because the iphone5 is not good (it's great!). It just didn't satisfied my WOW factor.
- ricardobeat 14y ago
  Good thing they are selling a phone, not entertainment. The mobile revolution has settled already. The next wave will be pervasive computing and/or AR in about 5 years.
- wvenable 14y ago
  > what I liked the most about the iphone, and the ipad, and the macbook, was how innovative it was. Everything was new. New concepts, new icon, new look and feel.. a whole refreshing new feeling. I can't help but feel that you're misrepresenting the past. The iPhone has had the same look and feel, icons, and basic design since the very first version released 5 years ago. The iPad UI is very much a scaled up version of that very same look and feel. It seems odd to stop and complain now that the phone is an incremental upgrade. The iPhone is always going to be a simple hardware upgrade; its entire design is based around making the software front and center.
greendestiny 14y ago
I think if you read in between the lines you can understand the generally underwhelmed reaction to the iPhone 5. There isn't anything on the iPhone 5 that feels like a step forward for mobile computing. The biggest change is the change in screen size, which is awkward and driven by keeping up with consumer expectation.
- seunghomattyang 14y ago
  What would constitute a "step forward for mobile computing"? For me, it'd be having the computing power of MacBook Pro on an iPhone. For example, I would hook up—or more likely, wirelessly connect—this hypothetical iPhone to a desktop monitor and run OS X. Arguably, this is 3-5 years down the line and only if Apple pursues this line of thinking.
  - joshschreuder 14y ago
    Indeed, imagine being able to develop in XCode for iPhone, on an iPhone.
    - damian2000 14y ago
      There's not much stopping Apple from enabling this right now but maybe they see the developer market as a way of generating more Mac sales? Look at the $35 Raspberry Pi - it has a HDMI port and runs Linux, with a fraction of the power of the iPhone 5.
    - cageface 14y ago
      Please god no. Xcode is miserably slow on a 2011 Macbook Air. I don't even want to think about running it on something with a small fraction of that horsepower.
      - joshschreuder 14y ago
        I was replying to the "having the computing power of MacBook Pro on an iPhone" comment.
rince 14y ago
For being a review of the iPhone 5, notice that it is only focused on the hardware. There is no talk of iOS 6 at all. And personally, I think that iOS 6 is a disappointment and no one wants to admit it. The hardware is eclipsing the software.
- micahgoulart 14y ago
  iOS 6 has been out in beta since June so no real need for Gruber to review it now.
- cageface 14y ago
  As an iOS developer I was really looking forward to iOS 6. Both iOS 4 & 5 seemed like house-cleaning updates that improved the plumbing and developer experience to set the stage for more daring and forward thinking changes in 6. It was actually when I first saw the new feature list for 6 that I began to worry that Apple had lost its momentum and the lackluster iPhone 5 only reinforces that feeling.
- connortomas 14y ago
  iOS 6 is not unique to the iPhone 5, so it wouldn't make sense for Gruber to review the latest version of the OS as a "feature" of the new phone. It makes sense to distinguish the hardware from the software.
- masklinn 14y ago
  > And personally, I think that iOS 6 is a disappointment and no one wants to admit it. The hardware is eclipsing the software. The actual explanation is that the iOS6 beta was made available in June, people have been talking about it for 3 months. It's old news (and felt enormously boring during the keynote as we'd already seen pretty much everything they demoed aside from — I believe — panorama). The hardware, on the other hand, is new.
joebadmo 14y ago
Disclaimer: Android user. Every time I'm up to get a new phone I come this close to switching to iPhone. My wife has one, and I've switched to Macs. But there are certain utilitarian functions that keep me on Android. As of the last two design revs, though, I also have an aesthetic aversion to the iPhone. Gruber describes the jewelry or fine watch-like quality very well. But I don't wear jewelry or fine watches. (Ok, I wear a wedding ring, but it's a plain band.) Maybe I'm just a philistine, but there's something about old original Motorola Droids that are at this point beaten up and worn that have a really nice aged, aesthetic weight to them. It's a sentiment similar to the one Khoi Vinh lays out here: http://www.subtraction.com/2007/07/16/designed-det http://www.subtraction.com/2007/07/16/designed-det but not quite, because I think smart phones become obsolete too quickly for 'designed deterioration' to be realistic. Maybe it's more that I don't want to feel that precious about these objects. I like to be able to not have to worry that much about taking care of my phone, to be able to toss it around without worrying about damage. Or maybe it's just an emotional, class-based aversion to luxury goods because I grew up in working class conditions.
- cageface 14y ago
  There is something a little crass about this angle of iPhone marketing. But marketing the iPhone as a luxury status symbol could be a little dangerous for them since they really only make one flagship phone. Even here in Vietnam I see iPhones all over the place and it just isn't a very effective signal of wealth anymore. But when I pull out my S3 people always want to look at it and play with it.
  - samstave 14y ago
    What do you do in vietnam?
    - cageface 14y ago
      Freelance mobile development. For the last 18 months iOS and now Android.
      - 14y ago
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- arn 14y ago
  "I just don't see Apple under Jobs compromising on screen size just because it'll make for a more popular phone, but perhaps I'm wrong." We're not quite in the post-Jobs Apple era yet. Jobs was certainly involved in the iPhone 5 design and direction. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/17/steve-jobs-worked-closely-on-design-of-next-generation-iphone-with-larger-display/ http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/17/steve-jobs-worked-closel...
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    - arn 14y ago
      Even if you don't believe the link. It's just common sense. Jobs died a year ago, and he basically worked right up until he died. This phone was certainly on the drawing board for more than one year.
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- ghshephard 14y ago
  "I was also a little taken aback by how anti-AT&T he went" Everybody I know felt that AT&T was being absolutely deceptive when they started marketing their (barely 3G in the bay area) data plan as "4G" one day on the iPhone. It was laughable - the iPhone _frequently_ came to a crawl, and now, all of a sudden, AT&T is claiming 4G. In comparison, Verizon LTE on my iPad screams from Redwood City through to Foster City, and I find a lot of places where it's superior to WiFi, so don't even bother switching over. Good for Gruber for calling AT&T on their crap.
  - wmf 14y ago
    WiMax was 4G and HSPA is faster than WiMax, so it had to be marketed as 4G. Whether network load can cancel out a G is an interesting issue.
DigitalSea 14y ago
If the only nice thing you can say about a phone is the camera and how it feels, not to mention devote at least 2 paragraphs to how pedantic Apple is about design and it paints a familiar picture. Apple are losing at their own game, the game they started and now a game that others are finishing for them. The only great thing about the new iPhone is the fact that the iOS 6 operating system is comes with has an awesome vector maps feature that blows Google Maps out of the water. I'm not prepared to spend $1000 AUD on buying an iPhone 5 when it doesn't offer anything significantly new, where's the NFC chip?
- sciwiz 14y ago
  Google maps on Android have been vector maps for more than a year.
- headShrinker 14y ago
  NFC is nearly useless at this point and there is a possibility it will never become ubiquitous. I don't see NFC being a huge selling point outside of the techies fpr quite some time.
  - cooldeal 14y ago
    Well, if only NFC had a big backer and became much more popular.. then maybe merchants would use it. A backer like, you know Apple?
    - wmf 14y ago
      Using that same argument, maybe Apple will create some sort of Bluetooth-based payment system.
    - dtorres 14y ago
      So, you are saying that Samsung and Nokia aren't popular enough? Samsung and Nokia are popular enough and have the resources to back NFC but as of now they haven't done anything besides launching phones with the technology. NFC today is just a dummy selling point and they know it, because they haven't done anything to make it popular.
maskedinvader 14y ago
The iphone 5 will sell like crazy given the large number of people approaching their contract expiration with an earlier version of the device. It only makes sense for most to continue to invest in the ecosystem they have already invested. The average joe is not going to take the jump,in my opinion that is.Ideally the phone I really want to upgrade to should have the Android Jelly Bean's UI with iOS' ecosystem (read apps) combined in a Nokia Lumia phone. I would pay a LOT of money for that !!!
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dr_ 14y ago
It's interesting to note how, unless I've missed it, the verge has been left out of the party. I enjoy reading Joshua's reviews, which are critical when appropriate, although somewhat verbose. I'm sure the iPhone 5 is solid, I'll probably be ordering it, but it seems like the product is intentionally kept away from more critical reviewers.
- technoslut 14y ago
  In all honesty, I have no idea for what reason Apple hands out their phones for reviews but the most intriguing reviews of Apple devices are from Mossberg, Gruber and Anand in no particular order. I do give credit to The Verge in having the best video reviews on any given topic. I find that The Verge can get too verbose in reviews. I don't mean that it contains too many words but much are used in waste.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  Good Point - TheVerge is getting a reputation for rock solid technology reporting. I don't see anything here on the iPhone yet - http://www.theverge.com/reviews/categories/cellphones/3 http://www.theverge.com/reviews/categories/cellphones/3
- jad 14y ago
  > it seems like the product is intentionally kept away from more critical reviewers. Macworld didn't get one either, and they're not exactly known for their critical reviews of Apple products: https://twitter.com/jsnell/status/248233492650020864 https://twitter.com/jsnell/status/248233492650020864
- nizmow 14y ago
  Waiting for Anand to be honest. Though with the technical depth of his reviews, I can understand why it might take a wee bit longer.
- arn 14y ago
  seems like the product is intentionally kept away from more critical reviewers. As another data point, Macworld.com didn't get one either (they have in the past).
kylec 14y ago
In an ideal world, perhaps Apple would offer two iPhone sizes — like they do with products such as MacBook Pros, MacBook Airs, and iMacs. A smaller one with the classic 3.5-inch display, and a larger (say, 4.5-inch?) one for people who want that. Isn't this exactly what Apple's doing? The iPhone 4 and 4S aren't going away, people now have a choice which size they want.
- joering2 14y ago
  No it isnt. Apple will not produce more 4's. The ones on sell now are production lot's remainings. The only reason "apple can offer them" is because it wiser to sell them than to throw away. And people don't have a choice in size. They have a choice in sie that goes MANDATORY with other specs, such as slower CPU, less advanced OS, less functionality, heavier/thicker device, have they decide to go with smaller screen.
  - xuki 14y ago
    Apple do produce more 4 and 4s.
  - Bud 14y ago
    You clearly have no understanding of Apple's obsessive degree of supply-chain control. The 4S is likely to be still for sale for two more YEARS. You think Apple just accidentally made a two-year surplus of the 4S, and now they are stuck with them, so they have to keep selling them? The actual figure is probably more like two days than two years.
- joesb 14y ago
  They only has choice for the 3.5" if they are willing to accept old version of the product. Apple did not update the spec for 4 & 4S. And when iPhone 5S and 6 comes out, I don't think Apple is still going to sell any 3.5" iPhone any more.
- bobbles 14y ago
  I'm looking forward to the slightly taller screen. It's always kind of bugged me how you couldnt see full album art + controls, and always felt a bit squished with the keyboard on-screen. Not sure how it will feel in regards to the back buttons though that are used pretty extensively with something like the facebook app, that i use quite a lot.
rcraft 14y ago
"And compared to the 4/4S’s glass back, it should prove far more durable...this is a phone that was meant to be used without a case." I won't be holding my breath on that one. iPhones have always been more fragile than most comparable high end phones. Anecdotally, I rarely see uncased iPhones in the wild - and I don't expect this to change anytime soon.
- panacea 14y ago
  Anecdotally, I had the first iPhone from day 1, inherited a 3GS and been sporting the 4 since it came out. I've never used a case and the worst damage that's happened was a stuck lock-screen button on the 3GS after years of use. I do see lots of people with cases, though I suspect they're for bling and to for the sense of peace-of-mind that they're protecting their shiny object.
- rimantas 14y ago
  My first iPhone 3G, I used it without a case. When I got 4/4S I got a case for them, for the reason that can be amusing: those models got a pretty decent camera so the case was meant to prevent scratching the glass covering it. iPhone 5 got sapphire cover on the lens, so I intend to go case-less again.
stiff 14y ago
This review could be the poster boy for the more and more idiotic consumerism that is the plague of our age.
buf 14y ago
More features != better: http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2010/02/if-your-product-is-great-it-doesnt-need.html http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2010/02/if-your-product-is-... That being said, I'm content with my 4s, although I will probably buy my wife a Nokia 920 so I can get a taste of the other side.
Steko 14y ago
I'm glad he spent a long time on the feel. My primary criticism of my 4S echoed Edward Tufte's words here: Last year in Cupertino, I yelled at some people about touchscreens that paid precise attention to finger touches from the user but not to how the device in turn touches the hands of the user (and produces divot edge-lines in the flesh). Those creases between the antenna bands and the glass back combined with the 4S's weight were very noticeable the first time I held the 4S for more than 5 minutes and through the first week I had it. It faded completely fairly quickly and I laugh about it now but I have to think one of their major goals with this iteration was to erase that defect. People seem disappointed every time Apple doesn't come out with a total redesign but total redesigns are basically admissions that what you were shipping last week was totally wrong. I have to think that a unibody metal frame is what they've been shooting for all along. They couldn't work the antennae properly so they settled on a lot of plastic and then glass and finally they got their unibody aluminum chassis. I wouldn't be surprised if by next year they completely remove the glass inlays on the back and move to liquidmetal alloys.
davidjohnstone 14y ago
> So the question is, if a 4-inch 16:9 display is better than a 3.5-inch 3:2 display, why hasn’t the iPhone been using 4-inch 16:9 displays from the start? How about: Apple got this wrong? To be fair to Apple, if they came out with a 4" or 4.5" back in 2007 it would have strangely large compared to everything else on the market (not to mention having the properties Gruber also mentions). The 3.5" screen made perfect sense then. However, what Apple didn't do was foresee that most consumers would prefer larger screens, and this doesn't fit with the Apple ideal of One True Resolution. (Yes, now there are two resolutions for iPhones, but only the vertical resolution has changed.)
redthrowaway 14y ago
Can we stop pretending that Bruner has anything interesting to say about Apple products? You know what he's going to say before you click the link. It's just self-congratulation for apple fans. Now, I don't hate Apple, behaviour aside. They make great products. But Gruber has nothing new or interesting to say about them. It's just the same old, and is uninteresting. Anyone who feels the need to read what he thinks about Apple can just go to daringfireball; nobody's discovering any great insights here.
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blrgeek 14y ago
This is not really a review - reads more like a lover on his last moments of love, desperately rationalizing things. Personally I think smartphones have almost commoditized. Apple has added ZERO product innovation this time in software or hardware. No - making a thinner, taller phone is not innovation. To summarize the 'review' 0. Glass was the best material for the phone till last week. Now it's aluminium. Plastic sucks because it scuffs instead of breaking but feels cheap so I hate it. Why doesn't everyone else use an inferior material that Apple just stopped using? 1. The bigger screen sucks. But after using it for a week, the old screen is too small. 3.5" was perfect till now. 4" is perfect hereon. Anything bigger is only for stupid people who have and use two hands. And if they have two sizes, stupid people will always choose the bigger one - it's better that apple decides the right size for me. 2. The display is brighter and more saturated than the 4S. But not AS bright or saturated as the S3. It's just perfect, because its from Apple. Oh wait - the display is from LG. It's got a lower resolution than the S3? Crispness is what matters. 3. The Camera is good. 4. AT&T sucks. Verizon rocks. Oh you can't do data+voice simultaneously on Verizon. But who needs that? 5. Battery life is same as on 4S. Who needs more than that? 6. The benchmark score of the processor is the highest Apple has so far. The S3 beats the pants off the iPhone 5? That's not a phone is it? 7. iOS6? There's nothing to talk about. I mean they screwed up the Maps. They copied notifications last time so there's nothing left to copy.
- pinaceae 14y ago
  don't you get tired of this blah? HN is about founders and the IT industry. mobile technology is the biggest growth area right now. Apple and Google are dominating, with different concepts software and hardware wise. Samsung is in there as a hybrid with many different approaches, incl. WP8 which is Nokia's and Microsoft's stake. RIM is practically dead in the water. Instead of going full nerd retard, shouldn't you be keen on understanding what is going on? Why Apple is breaking records? Why, as Gruber notes in his review, there is a target group very attracted to Samsung (or just bigger form factors)? Imagine you're in the automotive industry, producing accessories for various brands. wouldn't you approach customers driving a BMW differently than the ones driving a Lexus? There might be hostility and sneering between those groups, but what does it matter to you? It feels like the horrible mindset of sports fans, just within nerd circles. My team is better than yours, even though I just sit on the sidelines and have no impact on the actual play. Cause there is nothing else in my life to get excited about.
mmobile 14y ago
> But navigating the full screen while holding the iPhone [5] in one hand is worse ... Consider the windshield wipers on a car, and how, because they swing in a radial arc, they can’t reach the passenger-side top corner. Gruber brought up a very good point about the somewhat less than perfect screen size which shows a UI weakness of iOS: the back button—one of the most used UI elements—is always at the top left. Try it yourself, go to versus io to see the iPhone 5 in its orignal size, calibrate your screen (click at the top-right corner on versus io) and place your hand next to the iPhone and see if your thumb would be able to reach the top-left corner: http://versusio.com/en/apple-iphone-5-64gb-vs-samsung-galaxy-s3 http://versusio.com/en/apple-iphone-5-64gb-vs-samsung-galaxy... In contrast, Android has hardware back keys always at the bottom, so even 4,8" phones could be used for a short while with one hand (just try the same experiment with the S3). Moreover, there's a huge target not bothering about bigger phones because they have space in their bag and don't put them into their pockets (women). So, I agree with Gruber to start offering two size: 3.5 and something about 4.5 or even larger (and changing the back button UI in the long run).
- solarmist 14y ago
  iOS 6 has the back button on the bottom.
css771 14y ago
What's this. Gruber complaining that he can't reach the edges of an iPhone display? I never thought I'd see the day. He even admits there were some people who couldn't even use 3.5" displays one handed. Is the Apple kool-aid wearing off?
- alphang 14y ago
  kool-aid? I find Daring Fireball to be at its best when Gruber pushes back on Apple's design decisions with thoughtful critique: skeuomorphism, Safari tabs experiments, this screen thing.
pbreit 14y ago
Why are HNers totally incapable of evaluating high quality products? This situation is even more egregious since the high quality product costs the same as the low quality product.
arthurrr 14y ago
I think the new screen resolution is a terrible terrible decision, I like a phone/tablet that has about the same aspect ratio as a piece of paper. For me, 4:3 and 3:2 are ideal. I have no use for widescreen, especially when I am normally viewing the screen in portrait. I won't be installing iOS 6, I don't think it's finished and shouldn't be released in its current state. Too much functionality is lost with new maps. I get the feeling that it's all downhill from here...
- bluthru 14y ago
  >I like a phone/tablet that has about the same aspect ratio as a piece of paper. Once you throw some control bars at the top and the bottom of the content, you're pretty much there. They keyboard definitely needed more screen space above it as well.
josteink 14y ago
Gruber really doesn't write reviews. He writes Fifty shades of grey for Apple fanboys. His writing serves little purpose sans as a base for analysis of how the Apple RDF affects basic reasoning.
alexbell 14y ago
Gee, I wonder why he didn't mention the maps? Apple's devices are still more compelling for me personally, but less so than they used to me. Hopefully Google builds and maintains its own iOS maps application.
eloisant 14y ago
tl;dr "hi, I'm Gruber and I love everything Apple does. Well, surprise: I love the iPhone 5 too!"
Osiris 14y ago
I kept reading waiting to find the section on what he DIDN'T like about the phone. I prefer reviews that address both the good and the bad about a product. For example, the article about the inconsistencies in Android 4.x was pretty well done and definitely points out issues I've had with Android. I've never owned an iOS device so I want to hear all the pros and cons. Raving reviews like this one do nothing to persuade me to buy it.
alphang 14y ago
The part that I like about this review is the refrain — "It's nice". It's both a positive comment about the phone and also a deliberately non-quantitative, colloquial statement, recognizing it's only an incremental improvement. It's joining the chorus but also dismissing it. The argument being that yeah it's just nice, but that's the point. Stylistically, that's a neat little sentence.
Tichy 14y ago
About the just right screensize bullshit: it may be just right - for exactly one use case, which is typing with your thumb. There are dozens of other use cases for a mobile internet client. I like to surf and read, in both cases I cherish the big display of my Galaxy Nexus (which still fits nicely into my trouser pockets, thank you very much). Personally I have never typed with a thumb, and I was surprised to discover that some people actually do that. Even if you are convinced typing with your thumb is your main desire in life, there are people with thumbs of different sizes. What if my thumb is 3.7 inches, not 3.5 inches. Apple would be stealing 0.2 inches from my optimal screen estate then, just to please the masses. Or what if my thumb is only 3.0 inches? No thumb typing for me :-( What I am saying: yes, the 3.5 iPhone screen size may by just right - for a selected group of users with specific use cases and specific thumb sizes. Thank god there is Android with a little variation in devices.
nicholassmith 14y ago
Gruber is right to spend the first 750 words talking about something that most people won't care about, the fit and finish. Smartphones are pretty much all the same, despite parties from both camps rearing up and claiming their phone of choice is The One True Phone, so companies need to find ways to set them apart. Apple's devotion to realising their designs is what sets them apart. Whilst Joe Public won't care about precision manufacture and such he will notice how good the phone feels. There's a reason Rolex, Omega and so on still make very expensive, high quality watches, and a reason why people still buy them. Unfortunately there's a vocal group on here who are willing to just sit and go "Gruber is an Apple shill, there's nothing in here, he makes weird justifications", and he does in places, but he's also given Apple a hard time over changing display size so it's slightly hard to cover the screen but he knows they've had to do that in response to the market. There's plenty to like in the iPhone 5, and I'll be upgrading my 4 to one when I can because for me Apple is still producing the nicest hardware for a smartphone and that trumps anything else for me. Stop assuming your personal feelings about it are real world facts, because you love the iPhone doesn't make it the best, and because you love the Galaxy doesn't make it the best.
Tichy 14y ago
In Germany there is a saying that "nice is the little sister of crap". Just saying that the review felt lukewarm to me, even by Apple's greatest fan. But maybe it was just that the first line ("it is nice") set the tone for me.
6ren 14y ago
If it's precision-milled to the micron, why do they need "725 unique inlays"? Serious question - I think there's something I don't understand here.

131 points by spearo77 14y ago

Gruber says that "none of the competing phones on the market are made of metal". So what about the Lumia 800 (1)? Or the One S (2)? 1) http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/3/2534861/nokia-lumia-800-review http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/3/2534861/nokia-lumia-800-re... 2) http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/2/2916098/htc-one-s-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/2/2916098/htc-one-s-review

ghshephard 14y ago
From theVerge review on the Lumia800: "What you see and feel in your hand is a seamless piece of soft-touch plastic" From the Wikipedia Article: "A trough-colored unibody shell is made from polycarbonate plastic." And, Gruber had a demo-unit of the Lumia 800: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/04/03/ http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/04/03/
- akavlie 14y ago
  Sorry, misread the review for the Lumia 800. I'd always been under the impression that the Lumia phones were anodized aluminum; turns out they're polycarbonate. Still, there's the One S, for... one. And that was just a quick find among the current crop of recommended phones; I wouldn't be surprised if there are others.
  - manojlds 14y ago
    Nokia N8 and E7, last flagship Nokias before the lumias, were made of Anodized Aluminium. I own the N8 and the N800 and both feel great in the hand.
cooldeal 14y ago
Don't know about the One X, but the Lumia is made out of strong polycarbonate(not metal), and actually feels very good in the hand, unlike the iPhone 4/4S metal glass seam that felt somewhat sharp to my hand. Also, if the polycarbonate scratches, it's the same color inside, so scratches are not very visible.
- zobzu 14y ago
  i'd note that most heavy duty military equipment, including rifle bodies and several other parts are generally made of quality polycarbonate nowadays, because its lighter and arguably stronger than various metals (it's as rigid but not as brittle, and does not rust in any way)
technoslut 14y ago
You're right but you gave the wrong example. A good example would be the Xperia P. There are other phones as well with a metal shell.
adnrw 14y ago
His piece definitely said "none" when first published, but it has since been corrected: There’s also a marketing advantage: few[1] of the competing phones on the market are made of metal. [1: http://www.htc.com/www/smartphones/htc-radar/ http://www.htc.com/www/smartphones/htc-radar/]
barrkel 14y ago
I have no idea why a phone made out of glass and metal would be desirable in the least. Window frames are made out of glass and metal; should I desire one of those too? It makes me feel uncomfortably odd, but the iPhone elicits zero desire from me. If someone gave one to me for free, it would gather dust on my shelf.

tarungangwani 14y ago

Interesting to see both Gruber and Dalrymple find the taller screen and letter boxing to be troublesome. Though it will take some getting used to, the main stream press will certainly clamor over this being a largely negative move by Apple. Gotta love Gruber's continued adherence to succinct style and message. Makes for a great, consumable read.

stevedc3 14y ago

Gruber is an amazing writer. Blows away the other reviews.

cracell 14y ago
Gruber is a great writer but a terrible reviewer. His recent writing completely lacks any balance. It's obvious that he loves Apple and doesn't give a fair review. I don't have any issue with people liking Apple products but I don't understand why Hacker News upvotes his one-sided blog posts so highly.
- nizmow 14y ago
  He's biased, but he DOES cater to his audience (who are also potentially biased). I was really curious to hear what he thought about the enlarged screen, for example, because I suspect his views and opinions closely align with my own.
- prophetjohn 14y ago
  Exactly. His writing is way too sweet on Apple. I ordered the new iPhone and when I got to the end at the part where I'm supposed to buy it just because it says "iPhone" on the back, I was nearing the point of gagging. The rationalizing of why they would switch from 3.5" to 4" when they always make the right choices was particularly a low point for me, also. I guess I knew what I was getting myself into when I clicked the link, though. And shockingly, downvotes for calling a spade a spade.
  - glhaynes 14y ago
    From the linked article: There’s a reason why, just as with all five of its predecessors, it just says “iPhone” on the back. An awfully awkward sentence in a muddled closing, but in context he's not saying it's worth buying just because it says "iPhone". He's saying that they all have just said "iPhone" rather than additionally having the model number.
ghshephard 14y ago
Well, to be fair, Gruber is writing a love story here, not really an unbiased review. So, no, he doesn't blow away the other reviews, (As an unbiased review, Mossberg's is pretty good) but, for us lovers of all things Apple, his is the review we look for to give us that dopamine rush of reinforced sense of self worth from using Apple products. I've been hitting refresh every five minutes on daringfireball since 7:00. Note - I think his is the most well written of all the writeups so far. He put a lot of effort into this essay. I wish he did more like these, though I realize it must take a lot out of him. He also demonstrates a bit of useful insight/balance here, that you wouldn't expect from what should be a purely apple-biased review, e.g. from the section on displays "Apple has a lead here, which is interesting, because they buy these displays from companies like LG."

erickhill 14y ago

As an aside, has anyone a clue how iTunes is going to represent the new Retina 4 capable apps in the App Store? They now require screenshots of apps for iPhone (4), iPad and Retina 4 displays. Where are those going to appear, and how will people access them?

cma 14y ago
The level of fragmentation of display targets is approaching Android levels. The whole point of retina being a straight linear doubling of pixels was that you only had two device form factors to worry about: iPhone and iPad. Now you have to worry about iPhone, tall iPhone, iPad and, soon, mini-iPad (same aspect, but different physical/touch target size).
- cageface 14y ago
  Yes. And not only that but the tools for handling this are much less powerful than Android's. Add to this the fact that you have to duplicate the entire xib/storyboard for each internationalization and suddenly you've got a shitload of drudge work on your hands.
- nizmow 14y ago
  It's not nearly as bad as Android, if only because new display profiles mostly obsolete the old ones -- there's a clear progression. The mini-iPad, however, may be the first device to break this rule.
- wmf 14y ago
  In theory you're supposed to develop for the hypothetical iPad mini exactly as if it was an iPad 2.
- taligent 14y ago
  The Mini-iPad is widely expected to be 1024x768. So really there are only three display targets. iPhone, iPad and Tall iPhone.
  - cma 14y ago

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nizmow 14y ago

Great review. I'm disappointed that the screen size change is noticably awkward -- I was hoping it would be something that you'd get used to in a matter of minutes. I currently have a Galaxy Nexus and hitting the top left is impossible without two hands or hand contortion that leaves the device in serious risk of being dropped. Also, why on earth would Apple choose to have apps letterboxed in portrait mode? Wouldn't it make WAY more sense to align them on the bottom of the display, so that the keyboard would at least be in the same place across all applications? Here's hoping developers don't lag on updating their apps.

veidr 14y ago
I'm surprised by the screen size change, too; it has the drawback of reduced thumbability, but without seriously increasing readability. Because my Japanese iPhone 4S can't do tethering, and iOS maps/navigation is horrible, I just deal with carrying a Galaxy Nexus as well. The tradeoff is really simple; the iPhone lets you access the whole screen with your thumb, while the Nexus lets you see more usable info with your eyes. I found that I tended to pull out the Galaxy to read things (articles, this website, etc), even though the screen isn't as high-quality. Just because it is bigger. With the iPhone 5, it seems Apple traded away the thumb-awesome but just adding 176 pixels to the top doesn't get you much more reading-awesome.
wvenable 14y ago
Even with the letterboxing centered, it would still make more sense to always have the keyboard on the bottom -- then even old apps would benefit from a little more space when the keyboard is up.
- nizmow 14y ago
  You're right, but I suspect there are software limitations with iOS that prevent this from happening, unfortunately.
bobbles 14y ago
It's most likely for the consistency within apps that can rotate to landscape and still have a keyboard displayed. Would you expect the app to then slide to the middle? Or stay aligned-left and make it harder for the right hand?

darkpicnic 14y ago

Funny, I've bought every iPhone to date except this one. In fact, I went out and bought a Galaxy Nexus instead. I did it because Apple's fascination with perfecting form and design has somehow morphed into this inability to innovate. The primary reason I switched was that one day, I opened up my home screen and realized it hasn't changed in 5 years. We still open apps one at a time, each app allotted a sort of pseudo background API that allows minimal functionality. And God those apps are pretty. And the FPS is amazing. And the fluidity of the experience is breathtaking... but at the end of the day, my device is about acquiring information. I want to know when my train is coming, I want to save map info when I don't have a connection, I want to know that when I leave for work and hit the subway, Pocket auto downloaded all those articles I saved for later. Apple still maintains the best hardware, hands down. It's not even comparable. But it's irrelevant if the apps that reside on that phone are completely crippled by a draconian sense of design and control. If the phone has a "workstation tower processor" inside it, why the hell can't they let up and let the thing actually PROCESS more information? I'll miss the beauty of it, that's for sure, but unless Apple gets its act together with background processing and figuring out how to actually do cloud anything right, I'm moving to Google.

dmishe 14y ago
>Pocket auto downloaded all those articles I saved for later. Good point, I have no idea why don't they just push to iOS devices on my account.
eridius 14y ago
> If the phone has a "workstation tower processor" inside it, why the hell can't they let up and let the thing actually PROCESS more information? Because of power. It may have "workstation tower processing" power, but it's not hooked up to a wall socket. Power consumption is the gigantic bugaboo that plagues mobile devices, and that (in my opinion) justifies Apple's policies about background processing on iOS.
- majormajor 14y ago
  I wish they'd go further, though: how much battery life could Apple get out of an iPhone if they kept their great minimization and efficiency-maximization of the electronics going, but pulled back from the thinner-and-lighter-every-time mantra and devoted all the saved space to a bigger battery? An iPhone that's smaller than my still-pocketable non-Apple phone isn't that appealing to me (yay for having above-average-sized hands!). An iPhone that could go a week easily on a single charge would make me sit up and take notice, though.

d0m 14y ago

Personally, I'm disappointed. The thing is, I know I'm totally wrong because the iphone 5 is such a beautiful beast and probably the best smartphone out there. Still, what I liked the most about the iphone, and the ipad, and the macbook, was how innovative it was. Everything was new. New concepts, new icon, new look and feel.. a whole refreshing new feeling. I feel like the iphone5 is mostly a simple hardware update. I.e every now and then, I'll switch my old memory for a new one 2x faster. It's not innovative or original.. it's just faster memory. So, this is why I'm disappointed. Not because the iphone5 is not good (it's great!). It just didn't satisfied my WOW factor.

ricardobeat 14y ago
Good thing they are selling a phone, not entertainment. The mobile revolution has settled already. The next wave will be pervasive computing and/or AR in about 5 years.
wvenable 14y ago
> what I liked the most about the iphone, and the ipad, and the macbook, was how innovative it was. Everything was new. New concepts, new icon, new look and feel.. a whole refreshing new feeling. I can't help but feel that you're misrepresenting the past. The iPhone has had the same look and feel, icons, and basic design since the very first version released 5 years ago. The iPad UI is very much a scaled up version of that very same look and feel. It seems odd to stop and complain now that the phone is an incremental upgrade. The iPhone is always going to be a simple hardware upgrade; its entire design is based around making the software front and center.

greendestiny 14y ago

I think if you read in between the lines you can understand the generally underwhelmed reaction to the iPhone 5. There isn't anything on the iPhone 5 that feels like a step forward for mobile computing. The biggest change is the change in screen size, which is awkward and driven by keeping up with consumer expectation.

seunghomattyang 14y ago
What would constitute a "step forward for mobile computing"? For me, it'd be having the computing power of MacBook Pro on an iPhone. For example, I would hook up—or more likely, wirelessly connect—this hypothetical iPhone to a desktop monitor and run OS X. Arguably, this is 3-5 years down the line and only if Apple pursues this line of thinking.
- joshschreuder 14y ago
  Indeed, imagine being able to develop in XCode for iPhone, on an iPhone.
  - damian2000 14y ago
    There's not much stopping Apple from enabling this right now but maybe they see the developer market as a way of generating more Mac sales? Look at the $35 Raspberry Pi - it has a HDMI port and runs Linux, with a fraction of the power of the iPhone 5.
  - cageface 14y ago
    Please god no. Xcode is miserably slow on a 2011 Macbook Air. I don't even want to think about running it on something with a small fraction of that horsepower.
    - joshschreuder 14y ago
      I was replying to the "having the computing power of MacBook Pro on an iPhone" comment.

rince 14y ago

For being a review of the iPhone 5, notice that it is only focused on the hardware. There is no talk of iOS 6 at all. And personally, I think that iOS 6 is a disappointment and no one wants to admit it. The hardware is eclipsing the software.

micahgoulart 14y ago
iOS 6 has been out in beta since June so no real need for Gruber to review it now.
cageface 14y ago
As an iOS developer I was really looking forward to iOS 6. Both iOS 4 & 5 seemed like house-cleaning updates that improved the plumbing and developer experience to set the stage for more daring and forward thinking changes in 6. It was actually when I first saw the new feature list for 6 that I began to worry that Apple had lost its momentum and the lackluster iPhone 5 only reinforces that feeling.
connortomas 14y ago
iOS 6 is not unique to the iPhone 5, so it wouldn't make sense for Gruber to review the latest version of the OS as a "feature" of the new phone. It makes sense to distinguish the hardware from the software.
masklinn 14y ago
> And personally, I think that iOS 6 is a disappointment and no one wants to admit it. The hardware is eclipsing the software. The actual explanation is that the iOS6 beta was made available in June, people have been talking about it for 3 months. It's old news (and felt enormously boring during the keynote as we'd already seen pretty much everything they demoed aside from — I believe — panorama). The hardware, on the other hand, is new.

joebadmo 14y ago

Disclaimer: Android user. Every time I'm up to get a new phone I come this close to switching to iPhone. My wife has one, and I've switched to Macs. But there are certain utilitarian functions that keep me on Android. As of the last two design revs, though, I also have an aesthetic aversion to the iPhone. Gruber describes the jewelry or fine watch-like quality very well. But I don't wear jewelry or fine watches. (Ok, I wear a wedding ring, but it's a plain band.) Maybe I'm just a philistine, but there's something about old original Motorola Droids that are at this point beaten up and worn that have a really nice aged, aesthetic weight to them. It's a sentiment similar to the one Khoi Vinh lays out here: http://www.subtraction.com/2007/07/16/designed-det http://www.subtraction.com/2007/07/16/designed-det but not quite, because I think smart phones become obsolete too quickly for 'designed deterioration' to be realistic. Maybe it's more that I don't want to feel that precious about these objects. I like to be able to not have to worry that much about taking care of my phone, to be able to toss it around without worrying about damage. Or maybe it's just an emotional, class-based aversion to luxury goods because I grew up in working class conditions.

cageface 14y ago
There is something a little crass about this angle of iPhone marketing. But marketing the iPhone as a luxury status symbol could be a little dangerous for them since they really only make one flagship phone. Even here in Vietnam I see iPhones all over the place and it just isn't a very effective signal of wealth anymore. But when I pull out my S3 people always want to look at it and play with it.
- samstave 14y ago
  What do you do in vietnam?
  - cageface 14y ago
    Freelance mobile development. For the last 18 months iOS and now Android.
    - 14y ago

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arn 14y ago
"I just don't see Apple under Jobs compromising on screen size just because it'll make for a more popular phone, but perhaps I'm wrong." We're not quite in the post-Jobs Apple era yet. Jobs was certainly involved in the iPhone 5 design and direction. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/17/steve-jobs-worked-closely-on-design-of-next-generation-iphone-with-larger-display/ http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/17/steve-jobs-worked-closel...
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - arn 14y ago
    Even if you don't believe the link. It's just common sense. Jobs died a year ago, and he basically worked right up until he died. This phone was certainly on the drawing board for more than one year.
deleted 14y ago
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ghshephard 14y ago
"I was also a little taken aback by how anti-AT&T he went" Everybody I know felt that AT&T was being absolutely deceptive when they started marketing their (barely 3G in the bay area) data plan as "4G" one day on the iPhone. It was laughable - the iPhone _frequently_ came to a crawl, and now, all of a sudden, AT&T is claiming 4G. In comparison, Verizon LTE on my iPad screams from Redwood City through to Foster City, and I find a lot of places where it's superior to WiFi, so don't even bother switching over. Good for Gruber for calling AT&T on their crap.
- wmf 14y ago
  WiMax was 4G and HSPA is faster than WiMax, so it had to be marketed as 4G. Whether network load can cancel out a G is an interesting issue.

DigitalSea 14y ago

If the only nice thing you can say about a phone is the camera and how it feels, not to mention devote at least 2 paragraphs to how pedantic Apple is about design and it paints a familiar picture. Apple are losing at their own game, the game they started and now a game that others are finishing for them. The only great thing about the new iPhone is the fact that the iOS 6 operating system is comes with has an awesome vector maps feature that blows Google Maps out of the water. I'm not prepared to spend $1000 AUD on buying an iPhone 5 when it doesn't offer anything significantly new, where's the NFC chip?

sciwiz 14y ago
Google maps on Android have been vector maps for more than a year.
headShrinker 14y ago
NFC is nearly useless at this point and there is a possibility it will never become ubiquitous. I don't see NFC being a huge selling point outside of the techies fpr quite some time.
- cooldeal 14y ago
  Well, if only NFC had a big backer and became much more popular.. then maybe merchants would use it. A backer like, you know Apple?
  - wmf 14y ago
    Using that same argument, maybe Apple will create some sort of Bluetooth-based payment system.
  - dtorres 14y ago
    So, you are saying that Samsung and Nokia aren't popular enough? Samsung and Nokia are popular enough and have the resources to back NFC but as of now they haven't done anything besides launching phones with the technology. NFC today is just a dummy selling point and they know it, because they haven't done anything to make it popular.

maskedinvader 14y ago

The iphone 5 will sell like crazy given the large number of people approaching their contract expiration with an earlier version of the device. It only makes sense for most to continue to invest in the ecosystem they have already invested. The average joe is not going to take the jump,in my opinion that is.Ideally the phone I really want to upgrade to should have the Android Jelly Bean's UI with iOS' ecosystem (read apps) combined in a Nokia Lumia phone. I would pay a LOT of money for that !!!

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dr_ 14y ago

It's interesting to note how, unless I've missed it, the verge has been left out of the party. I enjoy reading Joshua's reviews, which are critical when appropriate, although somewhat verbose. I'm sure the iPhone 5 is solid, I'll probably be ordering it, but it seems like the product is intentionally kept away from more critical reviewers.

technoslut 14y ago
In all honesty, I have no idea for what reason Apple hands out their phones for reviews but the most intriguing reviews of Apple devices are from Mossberg, Gruber and Anand in no particular order. I do give credit to The Verge in having the best video reviews on any given topic. I find that The Verge can get too verbose in reviews. I don't mean that it contains too many words but much are used in waste.
ghshephard 14y ago
Good Point - TheVerge is getting a reputation for rock solid technology reporting. I don't see anything here on the iPhone yet - http://www.theverge.com/reviews/categories/cellphones/3 http://www.theverge.com/reviews/categories/cellphones/3
jad 14y ago
> it seems like the product is intentionally kept away from more critical reviewers. Macworld didn't get one either, and they're not exactly known for their critical reviews of Apple products: https://twitter.com/jsnell/status/248233492650020864 https://twitter.com/jsnell/status/248233492650020864
nizmow 14y ago
Waiting for Anand to be honest. Though with the technical depth of his reviews, I can understand why it might take a wee bit longer.
arn 14y ago
seems like the product is intentionally kept away from more critical reviewers. As another data point, Macworld.com didn't get one either (they have in the past).

kylec 14y ago

In an ideal world, perhaps Apple would offer two iPhone sizes — like they do with products such as MacBook Pros, MacBook Airs, and iMacs. A smaller one with the classic 3.5-inch display, and a larger (say, 4.5-inch?) one for people who want that. Isn't this exactly what Apple's doing? The iPhone 4 and 4S aren't going away, people now have a choice which size they want.

joering2 14y ago
No it isnt. Apple will not produce more 4's. The ones on sell now are production lot's remainings. The only reason "apple can offer them" is because it wiser to sell them than to throw away. And people don't have a choice in size. They have a choice in sie that goes MANDATORY with other specs, such as slower CPU, less advanced OS, less functionality, heavier/thicker device, have they decide to go with smaller screen.
- xuki 14y ago
  Apple do produce more 4 and 4s.
- Bud 14y ago
  You clearly have no understanding of Apple's obsessive degree of supply-chain control. The 4S is likely to be still for sale for two more YEARS. You think Apple just accidentally made a two-year surplus of the 4S, and now they are stuck with them, so they have to keep selling them? The actual figure is probably more like two days than two years.
joesb 14y ago
They only has choice for the 3.5" if they are willing to accept old version of the product. Apple did not update the spec for 4 & 4S. And when iPhone 5S and 6 comes out, I don't think Apple is still going to sell any 3.5" iPhone any more.
bobbles 14y ago
I'm looking forward to the slightly taller screen. It's always kind of bugged me how you couldnt see full album art + controls, and always felt a bit squished with the keyboard on-screen. Not sure how it will feel in regards to the back buttons though that are used pretty extensively with something like the facebook app, that i use quite a lot.

rcraft 14y ago

"And compared to the 4/4S’s glass back, it should prove far more durable...this is a phone that was meant to be used without a case." I won't be holding my breath on that one. iPhones have always been more fragile than most comparable high end phones. Anecdotally, I rarely see uncased iPhones in the wild - and I don't expect this to change anytime soon.

panacea 14y ago
Anecdotally, I had the first iPhone from day 1, inherited a 3GS and been sporting the 4 since it came out. I've never used a case and the worst damage that's happened was a stuck lock-screen button on the 3GS after years of use. I do see lots of people with cases, though I suspect they're for bling and to for the sense of peace-of-mind that they're protecting their shiny object.
rimantas 14y ago
My first iPhone 3G, I used it without a case. When I got 4/4S I got a case for them, for the reason that can be amusing: those models got a pretty decent camera so the case was meant to prevent scratching the glass covering it. iPhone 5 got sapphire cover on the lens, so I intend to go case-less again.

stiff 14y ago

This review could be the poster boy for the more and more idiotic consumerism that is the plague of our age.

buf 14y ago

More features != better: http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2010/02/if-your-product-is-great-it-doesnt-need.html http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2010/02/if-your-product-is-... That being said, I'm content with my 4s, although I will probably buy my wife a Nokia 920 so I can get a taste of the other side.

Steko 14y ago

I'm glad he spent a long time on the feel. My primary criticism of my 4S echoed Edward Tufte's words here: Last year in Cupertino, I yelled at some people about touchscreens that paid precise attention to finger touches from the user but not to how the device in turn touches the hands of the user (and produces divot edge-lines in the flesh). Those creases between the antenna bands and the glass back combined with the 4S's weight were very noticeable the first time I held the 4S for more than 5 minutes and through the first week I had it. It faded completely fairly quickly and I laugh about it now but I have to think one of their major goals with this iteration was to erase that defect. People seem disappointed every time Apple doesn't come out with a total redesign but total redesigns are basically admissions that what you were shipping last week was totally wrong. I have to think that a unibody metal frame is what they've been shooting for all along. They couldn't work the antennae properly so they settled on a lot of plastic and then glass and finally they got their unibody aluminum chassis. I wouldn't be surprised if by next year they completely remove the glass inlays on the back and move to liquidmetal alloys.

davidjohnstone 14y ago

> So the question is, if a 4-inch 16:9 display is better than a 3.5-inch 3:2 display, why hasn’t the iPhone been using 4-inch 16:9 displays from the start? How about: Apple got this wrong? To be fair to Apple, if they came out with a 4" or 4.5" back in 2007 it would have strangely large compared to everything else on the market (not to mention having the properties Gruber also mentions). The 3.5" screen made perfect sense then. However, what Apple didn't do was foresee that most consumers would prefer larger screens, and this doesn't fit with the Apple ideal of One True Resolution. (Yes, now there are two resolutions for iPhones, but only the vertical resolution has changed.)

redthrowaway 14y ago

Can we stop pretending that Bruner has anything interesting to say about Apple products? You know what he's going to say before you click the link. It's just self-congratulation for apple fans. Now, I don't hate Apple, behaviour aside. They make great products. But Gruber has nothing new or interesting to say about them. It's just the same old, and is uninteresting. Anyone who feels the need to read what he thinks about Apple can just go to daringfireball; nobody's discovering any great insights here.

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blrgeek 14y ago

This is not really a review - reads more like a lover on his last moments of love, desperately rationalizing things. Personally I think smartphones have almost commoditized. Apple has added ZERO product innovation this time in software or hardware. No - making a thinner, taller phone is not innovation. To summarize the 'review' 0. Glass was the best material for the phone till last week. Now it's aluminium. Plastic sucks because it scuffs instead of breaking but feels cheap so I hate it. Why doesn't everyone else use an inferior material that Apple just stopped using? 1. The bigger screen sucks. But after using it for a week, the old screen is too small. 3.5" was perfect till now. 4" is perfect hereon. Anything bigger is only for stupid people who have and use two hands. And if they have two sizes, stupid people will always choose the bigger one - it's better that apple decides the right size for me. 2. The display is brighter and more saturated than the 4S. But not AS bright or saturated as the S3. It's just perfect, because its from Apple. Oh wait - the display is from LG. It's got a lower resolution than the S3? Crispness is what matters. 3. The Camera is good. 4. AT&T sucks. Verizon rocks. Oh you can't do data+voice simultaneously on Verizon. But who needs that? 5. Battery life is same as on 4S. Who needs more than that? 6. The benchmark score of the processor is the highest Apple has so far. The S3 beats the pants off the iPhone 5? That's not a phone is it? 7. iOS6? There's nothing to talk about. I mean they screwed up the Maps. They copied notifications last time so there's nothing left to copy.

pinaceae 14y ago
don't you get tired of this blah? HN is about founders and the IT industry. mobile technology is the biggest growth area right now. Apple and Google are dominating, with different concepts software and hardware wise. Samsung is in there as a hybrid with many different approaches, incl. WP8 which is Nokia's and Microsoft's stake. RIM is practically dead in the water. Instead of going full nerd retard, shouldn't you be keen on understanding what is going on? Why Apple is breaking records? Why, as Gruber notes in his review, there is a target group very attracted to Samsung (or just bigger form factors)? Imagine you're in the automotive industry, producing accessories for various brands. wouldn't you approach customers driving a BMW differently than the ones driving a Lexus? There might be hostility and sneering between those groups, but what does it matter to you? It feels like the horrible mindset of sports fans, just within nerd circles. My team is better than yours, even though I just sit on the sidelines and have no impact on the actual play. Cause there is nothing else in my life to get excited about.

mmobile 14y ago

> But navigating the full screen while holding the iPhone [5] in one hand is worse ... Consider the windshield wipers on a car, and how, because they swing in a radial arc, they can’t reach the passenger-side top corner. Gruber brought up a very good point about the somewhat less than perfect screen size which shows a UI weakness of iOS: the back button—one of the most used UI elements—is always at the top left. Try it yourself, go to versus io to see the iPhone 5 in its orignal size, calibrate your screen (click at the top-right corner on versus io) and place your hand next to the iPhone and see if your thumb would be able to reach the top-left corner: http://versusio.com/en/apple-iphone-5-64gb-vs-samsung-galaxy-s3 http://versusio.com/en/apple-iphone-5-64gb-vs-samsung-galaxy... In contrast, Android has hardware back keys always at the bottom, so even 4,8" phones could be used for a short while with one hand (just try the same experiment with the S3). Moreover, there's a huge target not bothering about bigger phones because they have space in their bag and don't put them into their pockets (women). So, I agree with Gruber to start offering two size: 3.5 and something about 4.5 or even larger (and changing the back button UI in the long run).

solarmist 14y ago
iOS 6 has the back button on the bottom.

css771 14y ago

What's this. Gruber complaining that he can't reach the edges of an iPhone display? I never thought I'd see the day. He even admits there were some people who couldn't even use 3.5" displays one handed. Is the Apple kool-aid wearing off?

alphang 14y ago
kool-aid? I find Daring Fireball to be at its best when Gruber pushes back on Apple's design decisions with thoughtful critique: skeuomorphism, Safari tabs experiments, this screen thing.

pbreit 14y ago

Why are HNers totally incapable of evaluating high quality products? This situation is even more egregious since the high quality product costs the same as the low quality product.

arthurrr 14y ago

I think the new screen resolution is a terrible terrible decision, I like a phone/tablet that has about the same aspect ratio as a piece of paper. For me, 4:3 and 3:2 are ideal. I have no use for widescreen, especially when I am normally viewing the screen in portrait. I won't be installing iOS 6, I don't think it's finished and shouldn't be released in its current state. Too much functionality is lost with new maps. I get the feeling that it's all downhill from here...

bluthru 14y ago
>I like a phone/tablet that has about the same aspect ratio as a piece of paper. Once you throw some control bars at the top and the bottom of the content, you're pretty much there. They keyboard definitely needed more screen space above it as well.

josteink 14y ago

Gruber really doesn't write reviews. He writes Fifty shades of grey for Apple fanboys. His writing serves little purpose sans as a base for analysis of how the Apple RDF affects basic reasoning.

alexbell 14y ago

Gee, I wonder why he didn't mention the maps? Apple's devices are still more compelling for me personally, but less so than they used to me. Hopefully Google builds and maintains its own iOS maps application.

eloisant 14y ago

tl;dr "hi, I'm Gruber and I love everything Apple does. Well, surprise: I love the iPhone 5 too!"

Osiris 14y ago

I kept reading waiting to find the section on what he DIDN'T like about the phone. I prefer reviews that address both the good and the bad about a product. For example, the article about the inconsistencies in Android 4.x was pretty well done and definitely points out issues I've had with Android. I've never owned an iOS device so I want to hear all the pros and cons. Raving reviews like this one do nothing to persuade me to buy it.

alphang 14y ago

The part that I like about this review is the refrain — "It's nice". It's both a positive comment about the phone and also a deliberately non-quantitative, colloquial statement, recognizing it's only an incremental improvement. It's joining the chorus but also dismissing it. The argument being that yeah it's just nice, but that's the point. Stylistically, that's a neat little sentence.

Tichy 14y ago

About the just right screensize bullshit: it may be just right - for exactly one use case, which is typing with your thumb. There are dozens of other use cases for a mobile internet client. I like to surf and read, in both cases I cherish the big display of my Galaxy Nexus (which still fits nicely into my trouser pockets, thank you very much). Personally I have never typed with a thumb, and I was surprised to discover that some people actually do that. Even if you are convinced typing with your thumb is your main desire in life, there are people with thumbs of different sizes. What if my thumb is 3.7 inches, not 3.5 inches. Apple would be stealing 0.2 inches from my optimal screen estate then, just to please the masses. Or what if my thumb is only 3.0 inches? No thumb typing for me :-( What I am saying: yes, the 3.5 iPhone screen size may by just right - for a selected group of users with specific use cases and specific thumb sizes. Thank god there is Android with a little variation in devices.

nicholassmith 14y ago

Gruber is right to spend the first 750 words talking about something that most people won't care about, the fit and finish. Smartphones are pretty much all the same, despite parties from both camps rearing up and claiming their phone of choice is The One True Phone, so companies need to find ways to set them apart. Apple's devotion to realising their designs is what sets them apart. Whilst Joe Public won't care about precision manufacture and such he will notice how good the phone feels. There's a reason Rolex, Omega and so on still make very expensive, high quality watches, and a reason why people still buy them. Unfortunately there's a vocal group on here who are willing to just sit and go "Gruber is an Apple shill, there's nothing in here, he makes weird justifications", and he does in places, but he's also given Apple a hard time over changing display size so it's slightly hard to cover the screen but he knows they've had to do that in response to the market. There's plenty to like in the iPhone 5, and I'll be upgrading my 4 to one when I can because for me Apple is still producing the nicest hardware for a smartphone and that trumps anything else for me. Stop assuming your personal feelings about it are real world facts, because you love the iPhone doesn't make it the best, and because you love the Galaxy doesn't make it the best.

Tichy 14y ago

In Germany there is a saying that "nice is the little sister of crap". Just saying that the review felt lukewarm to me, even by Apple's greatest fan. But maybe it was just that the first line ("it is nice") set the tone for me.

6ren 14y ago

If it's precision-milled to the micron, why do they need "725 unique inlays"? Serious question - I think there's something I don't understand here.