8 ms·

EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

213 points by geox 1y ago

Cheer2171 1y ago
And Trump said this would be "the most transparent administration in history" [1]. What a disgrace. [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/videos/the-most-transparent-administration-in-history/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/videos/the-most-transparent-admin...
- shakna 1y ago
  The lies certainly tend to be transparent.
- nine_zeros 1y ago
  Of course they will say they are transparent while lying about everything. People have been falling for their lies since 2016. Why wouldn't they keep lying? The real question is why are so many people completely willing to sell their country, community, and future to these liars? Ask any trump voter and you'll find various racial nationalism answer to it.
  - lotsofpulp 1y ago
    They aren’t falling for the lies, the lies are a mechanism of signaling that candidate is willing to harm those outside of their tribe (they are willing to be corrupt), and sufficient people believe they are in the tribe.
    - nine_zeros 1y ago
      I don't know why this is being down voted. The white Christian nationalist movement absolutely is willing to burn America to get what they want - they are willing to be corrupt, elect corrupt, forget their religion, hurt the out-group, and lie to give plausible deniability while doing exactly that. Downvoters: Prove that this administration is not corrupt and not hurting people instead of downvoting - or just accept the truth.
      - theossuary 1y ago
        They've said it explicitly, this is a bloodless coup (so long as Democrats allow it). They see themselves as destroying America and creating their own country with completely different rights and laws, and they're well on their way.
- tempodox 1y ago
  It’s transparently corrupt, anti-science and totalitarian. They take every opportunity to make all of this abundantly clear.
firesteelrain 1y ago
Claims of an EPA “publication freeze” look overstated. Two staffers say they were told to pause, HQ flatly denies it, and no memo has surfaced. Most likely it is a clearance bottleneck tied to the reorg that killed ORD. To staff it feels like censorship, to leadership it is process. Until documents leak I treat this as local slowdown, not agency-wide gag. The bigger story is the reorg itself which centralizes control and raises interference risk.
- ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
  > Two staffers say they were told to pause, HQ flatly denies it Presenting these two pieces of evidence in juxtaposition, as if they are equally trustworthy, is a bit misleading: I think we're all well aware that pretty much any given career scientist, particularly one who has chosen to dedicate their lives to public service, is more trustworthy than the current administration, which is on record with tens of thousands of lies, most so lazily told as to convey contempt for the listener: They either think you're stupid enough to believe them, or don't care whether you do. To take just one characteristic example out of the tens of thousands: the person ruling over the administration infamously hand-edited a weather map with a marker, to lie to the public about the path of a hurricane, then lied to the public about the markup itself to conceal the previous lie. Notably, they never even acknowledged either lie, much less apologized, meaning they still think it was a good idea, and still think that sort of blatant, shameless lying is ok. That's to say nothing of the disdain the administration has for government and science in general: the long, strong track record there belies any claims of good faith, and indicates that actions they take which worsen one or both, do so with that as the primary motivation.
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    Probably less a grand gag order and more a clearance choke point from the reorg, but in a hostile political climate even routine slowdowns look like censorship.
    - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
      More likely, based on the evidence, is more lies by the administration on the pile of tens of thousands, and another example of actual censorship by the administration historically most famous for it. For an administration which claims that their primary goal is removing bureaucracy and making the government more efficient and effective, these whistleblower reports describing the exact opposite are pretty damning, and the objective is clear to all.
fabian2k 1y ago
I mean it's entirely obvious from everything that this administration does that it fundamentally opposes the entire purpose of the EPA. They want people to think climate change is a hoax, and environmental regulations are in the way of earning money. Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good.
- jordanb 1y ago
  It's not even that they think it's a hoax. They don't care what happens to our world because half of them are dispensationalsts and the rest just think: après moi, le déluge.
- goku12 1y ago
  > Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good. Can somebody explain the psychology behind these beliefs? I'm pretty sure they know how coal is mined. They must surely have heard about the black lung disease and COPD. Where does this 'clean coal' concept come from? And if that's about the products of coal burning, is it too hard to imagine breathing in hot air containing soot, fly ash, some obnoxious oxides, some unburnt VOCs and some extra CO2? Where have they seen perfect combustion of coal? Ultimately, what is their motivation to reject their own experiences and endorse such wishful thinking? Why do they choose ideas that harm them? I'm looking for an answer that doesn't assume that they're stupid or insane.
  - Herring 1y ago
    Study your history. Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America. Climate issues hit the marginalized much harder than whites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_swimming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_swimming
    - throw0101c 1y ago
      > Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America. Some folks would rather literally die than have the 'wrong people' have an improvement in their lives: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_of_Whiteness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_of_Whiteness Do not under-estimate the power of spite/hate.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
aswegs8 1y ago
https://archive.is/PFA7n https://archive.is/PFA7n
softwaredoug 1y ago
It feels like in the US we need collective, civic organizations independent of the Federal government. I would like to see the Democratic party and other left-leaning / governance institutions / activists on specific issues work to make priorities resilient of the government. Especially since working on many of these issues is popular and not particularly partisan. And many people in upper-middle class would rather donate/work on these causes rather than a private company squeezing 1% more profit.
- reval 1y ago
  Out of curiosity, why does this have to be a left-leaning initiative? I personally don’t use these political labels as I’m often confused by how they are used.
  - estebarb 1y ago
    Conservative people tend to protect their believes, no matter how wrong they are based on new evidence. Humanity has many examples of this happening through millennia, it is widely documented...
    - xkbarkar 1y ago
      right and so do libertans ,communists and socialists. Hanging on to false ideologies, no matter how disastrous, is not exclusive to right leaning its a human trait.
      - array_key_first 1y ago
        Conservatism as an ideology is intrisincally resistant to change. That's what makes it conservatism.
      - avmich 1y ago
        It surely seem like it's way more frequently the issue with right, rather than left. For example there are few if any examples of interfering with scientific work during the Baden administration, while there are many during the Trump one.
cramcgrab 1y ago
[flagged]
- cyanydeez 1y ago
  Interesting how little content you provides. Ironic.
- testdelacc1 1y ago
  I read the whole article. There isn’t much more context beyond the article headline apart from an unconvincing denial from the press secretary.
  - cogman10 1y ago
    Ditto. The sources appear to be a combination of anonymous and the EPA employee union leader. The administration is flatly denying that such a meeting happened. The only added context is that the studies being stopped are around water safety levels. PFAS are specifically called out as the Trump admin immediately pulled back PFAS regulations.
- ghusbands 1y ago
  You could post that comment on every article. (Please don't.)
mosst 1y ago
Although, considering that the EPA is and has always been something that I never really had a significant amount of contact with, I still end up with mixed thoughts about other topics unrelated to the EPA.
mahirsaid 1y ago
The whole idea of polarized opposite parties in the U.S. has gotten out of hand. like science is needed for humanity to further progress. To say the left needs to do this, and the right needs to do that is delusional in its own right. The joint effort comes first or should come first along with logical decisions not based on whether you like the opposite party or not. its about the nation as a whole.
- Sammi 1y ago
  It's because of the First Past The Post voting system that is used in the US, which means winner takes all. If you want to understand why the US seems so uniquely politically divided, then you will understand once you understand how FPTP voting works and how it inevitably leads to binary politics. Most countries have a voting system that leads to broader representation. US politics will always be black and white and divided so long as FPTP voting is used. There's a great video by cpg grey explaining FPTP: https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo
  - steve_adams_86 1y ago
    It's a problem in Canada as well. I believe FPTP's issues are exacerbated by modern developments like social media, but it's just a hunch
    - Sammi 1y ago
      In most Anglo-Saxon places that inherited FPTP. Some places like Australia have made changes that make it better. It is possible.
      - steve_adams_86 1y ago
        We've consistently voted against this kind of progress in Canada for some reason, but I agree, it is possible.
  - thisisit 1y ago
    FPTP is bad but other methods are similarly flawed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf7ws2DF-zk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf7ws2DF-zk Keeping a democracy requires people to understand it as well. At least in US it seems they'd rather elect a dictator wannabe who clearly said he wanted to be dictator for a day than elect a woman.
insane_dreamer 1y ago
Environmental Protection Agency --> Environmental Pollution Agency
thisisit 1y ago
The current admin tries to portray themselves as "strong man" but have the thinnest of skins. It is likely the EPA bosses don't want any studies which oppose their agenda. Be it renewables or coal mining. Don't follow the science, follow the agenda. Case in point - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBllzAb_vAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBllzAb_vAk Kevin Hall's study didn't find ultra processed foods being addictive like cocaine. It seemed to have rubbed the RFK MAHA agenda the wrong way.
- duxup 1y ago
  >but have the thinnest of skins Trump and co. are the biggest "snowflakes". Trump can't even take a question from a reporter he doesn't like without threatening them with prosecution... for asking a question. https://www.yahoo.com/news/videos/maybe-trump-threatens-abc-reporter-145516494.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/videos/maybe-trump-threatens-abc-...
tempodox 1y ago
There can be no doubt any more that Science (the kind that has an actual impact) in the U.S. is dead. If you want to stay a scientist, you have no choice but to emigrate.

213 points by geox 1y ago

And Trump said this would be "the most transparent administration in history" [1]. What a disgrace. [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/videos/the-most-transparent-administration-in-history/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/videos/the-most-transparent-admin...

shakna 1y ago
The lies certainly tend to be transparent.
nine_zeros 1y ago
Of course they will say they are transparent while lying about everything. People have been falling for their lies since 2016. Why wouldn't they keep lying? The real question is why are so many people completely willing to sell their country, community, and future to these liars? Ask any trump voter and you'll find various racial nationalism answer to it.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  They aren’t falling for the lies, the lies are a mechanism of signaling that candidate is willing to harm those outside of their tribe (they are willing to be corrupt), and sufficient people believe they are in the tribe.
  - nine_zeros 1y ago
    I don't know why this is being down voted. The white Christian nationalist movement absolutely is willing to burn America to get what they want - they are willing to be corrupt, elect corrupt, forget their religion, hurt the out-group, and lie to give plausible deniability while doing exactly that. Downvoters: Prove that this administration is not corrupt and not hurting people instead of downvoting - or just accept the truth.
    - theossuary 1y ago
      They've said it explicitly, this is a bloodless coup (so long as Democrats allow it). They see themselves as destroying America and creating their own country with completely different rights and laws, and they're well on their way.
tempodox 1y ago
It’s transparently corrupt, anti-science and totalitarian. They take every opportunity to make all of this abundantly clear.

firesteelrain 1y ago

Claims of an EPA “publication freeze” look overstated. Two staffers say they were told to pause, HQ flatly denies it, and no memo has surfaced. Most likely it is a clearance bottleneck tied to the reorg that killed ORD. To staff it feels like censorship, to leadership it is process. Until documents leak I treat this as local slowdown, not agency-wide gag. The bigger story is the reorg itself which centralizes control and raises interference risk.

ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
> Two staffers say they were told to pause, HQ flatly denies it Presenting these two pieces of evidence in juxtaposition, as if they are equally trustworthy, is a bit misleading: I think we're all well aware that pretty much any given career scientist, particularly one who has chosen to dedicate their lives to public service, is more trustworthy than the current administration, which is on record with tens of thousands of lies, most so lazily told as to convey contempt for the listener: They either think you're stupid enough to believe them, or don't care whether you do. To take just one characteristic example out of the tens of thousands: the person ruling over the administration infamously hand-edited a weather map with a marker, to lie to the public about the path of a hurricane, then lied to the public about the markup itself to conceal the previous lie. Notably, they never even acknowledged either lie, much less apologized, meaning they still think it was a good idea, and still think that sort of blatant, shameless lying is ok. That's to say nothing of the disdain the administration has for government and science in general: the long, strong track record there belies any claims of good faith, and indicates that actions they take which worsen one or both, do so with that as the primary motivation.
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  Probably less a grand gag order and more a clearance choke point from the reorg, but in a hostile political climate even routine slowdowns look like censorship.
  - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
    More likely, based on the evidence, is more lies by the administration on the pile of tens of thousands, and another example of actual censorship by the administration historically most famous for it. For an administration which claims that their primary goal is removing bureaucracy and making the government more efficient and effective, these whistleblower reports describing the exact opposite are pretty damning, and the objective is clear to all.

fabian2k 1y ago

I mean it's entirely obvious from everything that this administration does that it fundamentally opposes the entire purpose of the EPA. They want people to think climate change is a hoax, and environmental regulations are in the way of earning money. Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good.

jordanb 1y ago
It's not even that they think it's a hoax. They don't care what happens to our world because half of them are dispensationalsts and the rest just think: après moi, le déluge.
goku12 1y ago
> Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good. Can somebody explain the psychology behind these beliefs? I'm pretty sure they know how coal is mined. They must surely have heard about the black lung disease and COPD. Where does this 'clean coal' concept come from? And if that's about the products of coal burning, is it too hard to imagine breathing in hot air containing soot, fly ash, some obnoxious oxides, some unburnt VOCs and some extra CO2? Where have they seen perfect combustion of coal? Ultimately, what is their motivation to reject their own experiences and endorse such wishful thinking? Why do they choose ideas that harm them? I'm looking for an answer that doesn't assume that they're stupid or insane.
- Herring 1y ago
  Study your history. Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America. Climate issues hit the marginalized much harder than whites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_swimming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_swimming
  - throw0101c 1y ago
    > Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America. Some folks would rather literally die than have the 'wrong people' have an improvement in their lives: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_of_Whiteness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_of_Whiteness Do not under-estimate the power of spite/hate.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

aswegs8 1y ago

https://archive.is/PFA7n https://archive.is/PFA7n

softwaredoug 1y ago

It feels like in the US we need collective, civic organizations independent of the Federal government. I would like to see the Democratic party and other left-leaning / governance institutions / activists on specific issues work to make priorities resilient of the government. Especially since working on many of these issues is popular and not particularly partisan. And many people in upper-middle class would rather donate/work on these causes rather than a private company squeezing 1% more profit.

reval 1y ago
Out of curiosity, why does this have to be a left-leaning initiative? I personally don’t use these political labels as I’m often confused by how they are used.
- estebarb 1y ago
  Conservative people tend to protect their believes, no matter how wrong they are based on new evidence. Humanity has many examples of this happening through millennia, it is widely documented...
  - xkbarkar 1y ago
    right and so do libertans ,communists and socialists. Hanging on to false ideologies, no matter how disastrous, is not exclusive to right leaning its a human trait.
    - array_key_first 1y ago
      Conservatism as an ideology is intrisincally resistant to change. That's what makes it conservatism.
    - avmich 1y ago
      It surely seem like it's way more frequently the issue with right, rather than left. For example there are few if any examples of interfering with scientific work during the Baden administration, while there are many during the Trump one.

cramcgrab 1y ago

[flagged]

cyanydeez 1y ago
Interesting how little content you provides. Ironic.
testdelacc1 1y ago
I read the whole article. There isn’t much more context beyond the article headline apart from an unconvincing denial from the press secretary.
- cogman10 1y ago
  Ditto. The sources appear to be a combination of anonymous and the EPA employee union leader. The administration is flatly denying that such a meeting happened. The only added context is that the studies being stopped are around water safety levels. PFAS are specifically called out as the Trump admin immediately pulled back PFAS regulations.
ghusbands 1y ago
You could post that comment on every article. (Please don't.)

mosst 1y ago

Although, considering that the EPA is and has always been something that I never really had a significant amount of contact with, I still end up with mixed thoughts about other topics unrelated to the EPA.

mahirsaid 1y ago

The whole idea of polarized opposite parties in the U.S. has gotten out of hand. like science is needed for humanity to further progress. To say the left needs to do this, and the right needs to do that is delusional in its own right. The joint effort comes first or should come first along with logical decisions not based on whether you like the opposite party or not. its about the nation as a whole.

Sammi 1y ago
It's because of the First Past The Post voting system that is used in the US, which means winner takes all. If you want to understand why the US seems so uniquely politically divided, then you will understand once you understand how FPTP voting works and how it inevitably leads to binary politics. Most countries have a voting system that leads to broader representation. US politics will always be black and white and divided so long as FPTP voting is used. There's a great video by cpg grey explaining FPTP: https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo
- steve_adams_86 1y ago
  It's a problem in Canada as well. I believe FPTP's issues are exacerbated by modern developments like social media, but it's just a hunch
  - Sammi 1y ago
    In most Anglo-Saxon places that inherited FPTP. Some places like Australia have made changes that make it better. It is possible.
    - steve_adams_86 1y ago
      We've consistently voted against this kind of progress in Canada for some reason, but I agree, it is possible.
- thisisit 1y ago
  FPTP is bad but other methods are similarly flawed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf7ws2DF-zk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf7ws2DF-zk Keeping a democracy requires people to understand it as well. At least in US it seems they'd rather elect a dictator wannabe who clearly said he wanted to be dictator for a day than elect a woman.

insane_dreamer 1y ago

Environmental Protection Agency --> Environmental Pollution Agency

thisisit 1y ago

The current admin tries to portray themselves as "strong man" but have the thinnest of skins. It is likely the EPA bosses don't want any studies which oppose their agenda. Be it renewables or coal mining. Don't follow the science, follow the agenda. Case in point - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBllzAb_vAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBllzAb_vAk Kevin Hall's study didn't find ultra processed foods being addictive like cocaine. It seemed to have rubbed the RFK MAHA agenda the wrong way.

duxup 1y ago
>but have the thinnest of skins Trump and co. are the biggest "snowflakes". Trump can't even take a question from a reporter he doesn't like without threatening them with prosecution... for asking a question. https://www.yahoo.com/news/videos/maybe-trump-threatens-abc-reporter-145516494.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/videos/maybe-trump-threatens-abc-...

tempodox 1y ago

There can be no doubt any more that Science (the kind that has an actual impact) in the U.S. is dead. If you want to stay a scientist, you have no choice but to emigrate.