5 ms·

I started having RSI issues 2 years ago, what a way to welcome me to my 30s. It was excruciatingly painful just getting through a workday even with plenty of br

I started having RSI issues 2 years ago, what a way to welcome me to my 30s. It was excruciatingly painful just getting through a workday even with plenty of breaks. I didn't care for building my own keyboard I literally just wanted something to help me not be in pain no matter how weird it looked. I've ended up on a Kinesis advantage 360 pro after spending thousands of dollars on keyboards because I needed something that allowed me to type for more than 5 minutes at a time without pain. The things I think are key for people with persistent issues: - programmable keys - tenting - concavity (rules out most keyboards) - thumb clusters - ortholinear I know some go without the concavity but I just cannot go back. Its so much more comfortable on my hands. Programmable keys are probably the most important though, primarily so you can pick which stretches and awkward movements to completely remove and no longer have to do. For example I've entirely removed the need to ever stretch my pinkies and ring fingers on both hands. It destroys my hands having to do so on a normal keyboard and so many normal shortcuts require excessive pinky finger movement. I honestly think anybody who plans on using a keyboard for the rest of their life should invest in a high quality keyboard even if it's expensive. I would not be able to continue working today without having done so. Runner up is the glove 80, but the only thing is I don't like how flimsy it feels in my hands compared to how solid the kinesis feels.

dbalatero 1y ago
You nailed it, I have the same criteria. I ended up with a Cyboard Imprint but the Advantage 360 seems excellent as well.
arcanemachiner 1y ago
For those with more time than money, you can build an open-source Advantage 360 clone for around $100 USD: - https://github.com/wizarddata/Ergo-S-1 https://github.com/wizarddata/Ergo-S-1 I'm not the creator, but I do have a repo with a purchase list that shows what stuff to buy from AliExpress: - https://github.com/arcanemachine/Ergo-S-1-Extras https://github.com/arcanemachine/Ergo-S-1-Extras It takes about 10 hours to put together. You'll also need some nerd tools: access to a 3D printer, soldering iron, etc.
- patrickk 1y ago
  There are some great 3D printing services out there for those who don’t have access to a 3D printer locally. You can upload the CAD file and get an instant quote.
Forgeties79 1y ago
These look great and I don’t doubt it’s worth the investment, but holy hell $500 is a tough price tag to accept.
- Lunamare 1y ago
  The way I thought about it was that I would gladly pay $500 to have a reduction in RSI symptoms, let alone prevent them beforehand. Not to mention the potential loss of enjoyment & employment from pain during computer use. And as such, I'm an extremely satisfied Advantage 360 Pro user. The Adv 360 + a mouse side-grade massively reduced pains in my hands/wrists to the point where I don't notice any issues 99% of the time, even with heavy (7+ hour) computer use and quite a lot of FPS gaming. Though note that there are several keyboards with split layouts + tenting (the two most important aspects for relief) that cost a fraction of the Adv 360; $200-300 of the price tag is for features, build quality, it being pre-built, and ease of programmability.
  - woleium 1y ago
    Yeah, as a medical expense it’s quite the bargain
  - Forgeties79 1y ago
    Totally agree that it is worth the investment and who knows, maybe I will even get one one day. But I’m definitely getting some sticker shock regardless haha
    - Symbiote 1y ago
      I got sticker shock when I first bought an Apple Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad. It is, even in the USA, $129, compared to the $20 or so I'd otherwise expect to pay when buying a computer for a new employee. Here in Denmark the RRP is 1699DKK = $267 = €227. (Still $215 without the VAT.)
- rovr138 1y ago
  I have a Kinesis advantage pro. I bought it 11 years ago (in 2 months). When you look at it over the time it’ll last.. it gets easier to swallow. It also solved a lot of issues for me. In that time, I’ve had 3 desks, 5 computer chairs, and 7 computers.
userbinator 1y ago
I am curious how/if you were formally taught how to type, and whether you hit the keys with sharp and abrupt movements. Of those whom I've seen develop RSI, a common trend I've noticed is they type very "discretely", with a very noticeable pause between each keypress, and use a lot more force than necessary. They were also taught that that was the "correct" way to type, adhere strictly to a sub-optimal fingering pattern, and type relatively slowly too. RSI seems to be caused by the sort of excessively rigid and intense finger movements that I've seen from these formally-taught typists.
- barrell 1y ago
  Not op, but had a very similar story. Got crippling RSI to welcome me into my 30s. Couldn’t work for several months and ended up getting a Glove80 because I needed to make a living. This definitely does not describe me. I typed around 100wpm, sometimes quite loud, often times quite a button mash, and frequently not lifting my fingers quickly after each press. Didn’t have any notion of “correct” typing
- makeitdouble 1y ago
  The more generic trend could be people who perfectly hit the same keys the same way again and again. I've seen it with people religiously sticking to an optimal typing method which limits their hand movement to an extreme. They were crazy fast but RSI was a common subject of discussion, regardless of posture or hardware quality. We had the same issue with gaming controllers, some with guitar learning etc. There's a limit on how much we're able to repeat the same movement again and again, it depended on what movement and who did it, but the only ones who didn't get any RSI simply avoided extreme repetitions. And buffs. Sometimes building more and more muscles solve the issues entirely, if that's what you're into.
  - fireflash38 1y ago
    Agreed. I had wrist pain when I played a lot of WoW - rogue, especially outlaw, is not kind to the hands. I solved it in a couple of ways: 1. Quit wow 2. Rock climbing. Get stronger, especially forearm and finger strength. I can't emphasize enough how much this helps over even carpal tunnel braces or whatever. The biggest single thing that stopped wrist pain.
DanHulton 1y ago
As an FYI, I had a similar issue and tried a whole lot of things, including different mechanical keyboards, with which I had a variety of successes and failures. But ultimately what REALLY helped was going to physiotherapy and identifying muscle groups in my back that were weak, causing me to sit weird and support my arms with muscles in my shoulders that weren't designed for that. And because all of this is connected in weird ways, the pain I was feeling in my wrists originated way back in over-stressing those shoulder muscles. After a few weeks of an exercise program designed to target those muscles, all my RSI pains aren't just reduced, which was the sum total of the results I got from different mechanical keyboards, they were GONE. Plus, I had the added benefit of naturally sitting and walking "better" and feeling better about it. So if you've tried different mechanical keyboards with only limited degrees of success (or have a fave keyboard you don't want to have to switch from), consider an exercise program designed to improve your posture! It is literally the single biggest thing I've done in the past year to make me feel significantly better, and not just in the case of the RSI!
- nothrabannosir 1y ago
  I have a similar story. Bought a Kinesis advantage II at the time and it provided at best some solace. Started lifting weights and all pain was completely gone within two weeks. Not saying it will work for others but it’s at least worth trying. PS I ended up sticking with the kinesis, now on a 360 pro. Hands down the best keyboard I’ve ever seen or used. I recommend both deadlifts and kinesis :)
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- jacobolus 1y ago
  A person in good health with good form can type with reasonable (not ideal) comfort on a standard keyboard on any height table (within reason), but: (0) Try to feel in your body what kind of static load is on your muscles and joints. Ideally you want your body parts to be in neutral relaxed positions. It's not always possible to completely avoid static load, so try to take routine breaks, change positions, etc. (1) At all costs avoid having nontrivial wrist extension or flexion (wrists bent upward or downward) while doing repetitive finger motions. Your hands need to be coming straight out of your forearms. The tendons that flex and extend the fingers need to pass through the wrists, and a bent wrist leaves them moving in a weak and uncomfortable part of their range of motion. My understanding is that most keyboard-related RSI comes from wrist extension or flexion. (2) You should try to get your arms to be supported as much as possible passively from the shoulders. When sitting or standing, the upper arms should be hanging loosely at your sides with back reasonably straight and head up. The keyboard needs to be close enough to the torso for this to be possible. If your elbows are not close to your body, but are forward or out to the side, try to change your position. Being in a position where the weight of the arms is supported by the arm muscles causes fatigue and encourages compromising other joint positions in uncomfortable or damaging ways to relieve the strain. While actively typing the hands do not need to be supported by any kind of surface: let the palms "float" above the keyboard. Use the palm rest for resting, not typing. (3) For a single-piece flat keyboard, I find it is most comfortable for the plane of the keyboard to be parallel to the forearms. The appropriate front/back tilt of the keyboard is therefore dependent on the relative height of the keyboard and the torso: if the table is high relative to the chair, the keyboard needs to be tilted up at the far side; if the keyboard is on your lap, on a low under-desk keyboard tray, or on a belly-height standing desk, then the keyboard needs to be flat or even tilted down at the far side. The major reason that old typewriters had an aggressive tilt to them was because desks are historically the right height for handwriting (i.e. tall). (4) I find it helps a lot on a one-piece keyboard to keep the wrists with little to no ulnar deviation (turn toward the outside). It also helps to try to pronate them less (i.e. leave them turned so that the pinkies are a bit below the pointer fingers, instead of rotating them all the way flat). Split ergonomic keyboards eliminate the need to make some of these compromises by allowing the hands to be separated and allowing the sides to be "tented" (so the wrists can be less pronated) and positioned/oriented to eliminate ulnar deviation. (5) Try not to have too sharp an impact on each keystroke. Ideally use only the necessary force for each key press to register, and try to avoid slamming your fingers down hard through the bottom of the keystroke. A keyboard with better switches can help a lot here, with reliable actuation halfway through the keystroke and tactile/auditory feedback at the actuation point. Key switches that don't reliably actuate unless smashed are the worst.
petesergeant 1y ago
Anyone else suffering with this, I would highly recommend an app that forces you to stop typing for a few seconds every other couple of minutes, like AntiRSI. Hugely annoying but helped me where many keyboards did not
microtonal 1y ago
Runner up is the glove 80, but the only thing is I don't like how flimsy it feels in my hands compared to how solid the kinesis feels. Glove80 has a better key well and thumb cluster for most people though. I have made a detailed comparison here: https://danieldk.eu/MoErgo-Glove80-Review https://danieldk.eu/MoErgo-Glove80-Review Also agree with the sibling commenters. In order, get: - Help from an expert/exercise/do very regular breaks. - A properly adjustable chair. - A height-adjustable desk (get an electronic one, it's the only one you will ever tune properly, other desks are too much effort). - Only then an ergo keyboard. An ergo keyboard is worthless if you do not get the basics right (diagnose the issues, letting the blood flow, having a good posture). I am in some ergo keyboard Discords and it happens far too often that people by an ergo keyboard, but do not even have a setup where they can have a good posture.
- psoundy 1y ago
  I used kinesis advantage for 15 years, switched to a glove80 for the past 2, but recently went back to kinesis with an advantage2. The glove80 is very nice, but my hands are big enough that the kinesis thumb cluster works better for me and the cherry mx brown switches are much more satisfying than the low profile chocs. So ymmv, but for those with larger hands, it may make sense to try a kinesis.
- qyckudnefDi5 1y ago
  Have you tried any of the splitkb keyboards? If so, how do they compare to the kinesis adv 2?
harvey9 1y ago
Glove80 might not survive a drop on the floor but I've used mine full time for over a year and it still feels like new.
jval43 1y ago
That is exactly my experience, although a bit earlier. I landed on a Kinesis Advantage 2, at the time as the 360 wasn't even announced yet. Spent entirely too much money on other ones. There's a reason the Kinesis Advantage line has been around for decades. It really is a just a great ergonomic shape without many compromises. And mine has held up 7 years now with no issues. Anyone looking for pain relief should really try the Advantage 2 or 360. If the 360 Pro is too expensive don't shy away from considering a used Kinesis Advantage 2. Don't get an Advantage 1 as they have compatibility issues with newer machines.
- Symbiote 1y ago
  If cost is a concern, and you are an employee, please ask if work will pay. Also ask if they have a similar keyboard lying unused in a cupboard. I'll buy a €450 keyboard for any employee that asks for one. It's easily justified compared to the loss of productivity from RSI or similar.
lawn 1y ago
I agree with your list except for ortholinear. I firmly believe that row stagger (that you find on regular keyboards) are bad but you should have column stagger (to match the different lengths of your fingers).
atoav 1y ago
Having been extensively on computers for the past 25 years and I have never experienced the whole keyboard-/mouse-pain thing even in the slightest on myself. I know many collegues who did tho. I wonder whether this has to do with me being a bass and guitar player. Playing an instrument where you essentially press down thick steel wires with your finger tips with full force, while your fingers are in odd angled ("unhealthy") positions for hours certainly does something to your motoric system. I know anecdotal evidence with n=1 is useless, but the idea that motion is important to reduce body pains isn't exactly new or unresearched. A whole family of ergonomic chairs have evolved about that very idea. I know multiple people whose only solution to excruciating back pain was simply to exercise and build muscles in the back, and they tried every ergonomic chair in the book. The only thing that really helped was excercise. Since I don't have RSI take all that with a grain of salt, but maybe trying with those guitar-finger-strength-trainers for a month isn't that big of an investment?
- akdor1154 1y ago
  Similar experience (no rsi, 35, shit tier typing technique, bassist + pianist), same theory. Go get them fingers jacked!
- Jcampuzano2 1y ago
  Sadly I actually stopped playing guitar because of my issues after having played for almost 20 years. I'd played guitar since I was 12 years old and probably averaged at least an hour a day basically the entire time even into adulthood. Played obviously a hell of a lot more when I was a teenager though.i also was competing in powerlifting and used my grip and fingers for all sorts of stuff. I had surgery on both elbows and am told I may need to on my hands/wrists since the issue is a combination of nerve issues and wrist issues.
marginalia_nu 1y ago
I fairly recently got a Glove 80, still not entirely used to the thing but I can certainly tell my wrists are a lot happier. Was also looking at the Advantage 360, but with shipping it's nearly twice as expensive where I live so it was hard to motivate. Before that I was using a Keychron Q11, which is a split keyboard with a regular staggered layout. That helped my shoulders feel better, I have a pretty broad frame and regular keyboards put me in a kinda t-rex position, but my left wrist in particular was killing me since I couldn't type a fair few keys on the left side, c, x, z, and q, without constantly adjusting my hand position. Must say that the Glove 80 is growing on me as one heck of a comfortable experience. No idea how durable it is, it's certainly a light keyboard, though at the same time I'm not sure how well that actually conveys build quality. Like would the solder joints really have been more resistant to drops and impacts if it had a steel plate in the bottom like the Kinesis does?
kalaksi 1y ago
I have had ctrl and caps lock swapped for a long time. The default layout sucks for today's needs.
oktoberpaard 1y ago
I got RSI using a touchpad, which then transferred to using a normal mouse. I couldn’t do anything with a mouse for longer than a few minutes. I completely fixed it with a DXT Mouse 2 (and later 3). My normal (mechanical) keyboard doesn’t give me any issues, as long as it’s narrow enough (75% layout or less) that I can keep my mouse close enough to the center of my body that I don’t have to rotate my shoulder outwards too much. My natural resting position on my keyboard is with both arms coming in diagonally without bending at the wrists. I do a lot of work on the terminal, including programming, so I’m using it quite intensively and I never feel any strain. I tried to get used to a split orthogonal keyboard, but I couldn’t use it for extended periods without getting RSI like symptoms. Would I have persisted, I might have gotten used to it. Or maybe it just wasn’t the right one for me. Anyway, this is not to counter any of the things you said, because I basically followed the same path with my mouse, but it shows how different postures and usage patterns can lead to different outcomes. I’m still interested in ergonomic keyboards, though, and I might try one again in the future.

dbalatero 1y ago

You nailed it, I have the same criteria. I ended up with a Cyboard Imprint but the Advantage 360 seems excellent as well.

arcanemachiner 1y ago

For those with more time than money, you can build an open-source Advantage 360 clone for around $100 USD: - https://github.com/wizarddata/Ergo-S-1 https://github.com/wizarddata/Ergo-S-1 I'm not the creator, but I do have a repo with a purchase list that shows what stuff to buy from AliExpress: - https://github.com/arcanemachine/Ergo-S-1-Extras https://github.com/arcanemachine/Ergo-S-1-Extras It takes about 10 hours to put together. You'll also need some nerd tools: access to a 3D printer, soldering iron, etc.

patrickk 1y ago
There are some great 3D printing services out there for those who don’t have access to a 3D printer locally. You can upload the CAD file and get an instant quote.

Forgeties79 1y ago

These look great and I don’t doubt it’s worth the investment, but holy hell $500 is a tough price tag to accept.

Lunamare 1y ago
The way I thought about it was that I would gladly pay $500 to have a reduction in RSI symptoms, let alone prevent them beforehand. Not to mention the potential loss of enjoyment & employment from pain during computer use. And as such, I'm an extremely satisfied Advantage 360 Pro user. The Adv 360 + a mouse side-grade massively reduced pains in my hands/wrists to the point where I don't notice any issues 99% of the time, even with heavy (7+ hour) computer use and quite a lot of FPS gaming. Though note that there are several keyboards with split layouts + tenting (the two most important aspects for relief) that cost a fraction of the Adv 360; $200-300 of the price tag is for features, build quality, it being pre-built, and ease of programmability.
- woleium 1y ago
  Yeah, as a medical expense it’s quite the bargain
- Forgeties79 1y ago
  Totally agree that it is worth the investment and who knows, maybe I will even get one one day. But I’m definitely getting some sticker shock regardless haha
  - Symbiote 1y ago
    I got sticker shock when I first bought an Apple Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad. It is, even in the USA, $129, compared to the $20 or so I'd otherwise expect to pay when buying a computer for a new employee. Here in Denmark the RRP is 1699DKK = $267 = €227. (Still $215 without the VAT.)
rovr138 1y ago
I have a Kinesis advantage pro. I bought it 11 years ago (in 2 months). When you look at it over the time it’ll last.. it gets easier to swallow. It also solved a lot of issues for me. In that time, I’ve had 3 desks, 5 computer chairs, and 7 computers.

userbinator 1y ago

I am curious how/if you were formally taught how to type, and whether you hit the keys with sharp and abrupt movements. Of those whom I've seen develop RSI, a common trend I've noticed is they type very "discretely", with a very noticeable pause between each keypress, and use a lot more force than necessary. They were also taught that that was the "correct" way to type, adhere strictly to a sub-optimal fingering pattern, and type relatively slowly too. RSI seems to be caused by the sort of excessively rigid and intense finger movements that I've seen from these formally-taught typists.

barrell 1y ago
Not op, but had a very similar story. Got crippling RSI to welcome me into my 30s. Couldn’t work for several months and ended up getting a Glove80 because I needed to make a living. This definitely does not describe me. I typed around 100wpm, sometimes quite loud, often times quite a button mash, and frequently not lifting my fingers quickly after each press. Didn’t have any notion of “correct” typing
makeitdouble 1y ago
The more generic trend could be people who perfectly hit the same keys the same way again and again. I've seen it with people religiously sticking to an optimal typing method which limits their hand movement to an extreme. They were crazy fast but RSI was a common subject of discussion, regardless of posture or hardware quality. We had the same issue with gaming controllers, some with guitar learning etc. There's a limit on how much we're able to repeat the same movement again and again, it depended on what movement and who did it, but the only ones who didn't get any RSI simply avoided extreme repetitions. And buffs. Sometimes building more and more muscles solve the issues entirely, if that's what you're into.
- fireflash38 1y ago
  Agreed. I had wrist pain when I played a lot of WoW - rogue, especially outlaw, is not kind to the hands. I solved it in a couple of ways: 1. Quit wow 2. Rock climbing. Get stronger, especially forearm and finger strength. I can't emphasize enough how much this helps over even carpal tunnel braces or whatever. The biggest single thing that stopped wrist pain.

DanHulton 1y ago

As an FYI, I had a similar issue and tried a whole lot of things, including different mechanical keyboards, with which I had a variety of successes and failures. But ultimately what REALLY helped was going to physiotherapy and identifying muscle groups in my back that were weak, causing me to sit weird and support my arms with muscles in my shoulders that weren't designed for that. And because all of this is connected in weird ways, the pain I was feeling in my wrists originated way back in over-stressing those shoulder muscles. After a few weeks of an exercise program designed to target those muscles, all my RSI pains aren't just reduced, which was the sum total of the results I got from different mechanical keyboards, they were GONE. Plus, I had the added benefit of naturally sitting and walking "better" and feeling better about it. So if you've tried different mechanical keyboards with only limited degrees of success (or have a fave keyboard you don't want to have to switch from), consider an exercise program designed to improve your posture! It is literally the single biggest thing I've done in the past year to make me feel significantly better, and not just in the case of the RSI!

nothrabannosir 1y ago
I have a similar story. Bought a Kinesis advantage II at the time and it provided at best some solace. Started lifting weights and all pain was completely gone within two weeks. Not saying it will work for others but it’s at least worth trying. PS I ended up sticking with the kinesis, now on a 360 pro. Hands down the best keyboard I’ve ever seen or used. I recommend both deadlifts and kinesis :)
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jacobolus 1y ago
A person in good health with good form can type with reasonable (not ideal) comfort on a standard keyboard on any height table (within reason), but: (0) Try to feel in your body what kind of static load is on your muscles and joints. Ideally you want your body parts to be in neutral relaxed positions. It's not always possible to completely avoid static load, so try to take routine breaks, change positions, etc. (1) At all costs avoid having nontrivial wrist extension or flexion (wrists bent upward or downward) while doing repetitive finger motions. Your hands need to be coming straight out of your forearms. The tendons that flex and extend the fingers need to pass through the wrists, and a bent wrist leaves them moving in a weak and uncomfortable part of their range of motion. My understanding is that most keyboard-related RSI comes from wrist extension or flexion. (2) You should try to get your arms to be supported as much as possible passively from the shoulders. When sitting or standing, the upper arms should be hanging loosely at your sides with back reasonably straight and head up. The keyboard needs to be close enough to the torso for this to be possible. If your elbows are not close to your body, but are forward or out to the side, try to change your position. Being in a position where the weight of the arms is supported by the arm muscles causes fatigue and encourages compromising other joint positions in uncomfortable or damaging ways to relieve the strain. While actively typing the hands do not need to be supported by any kind of surface: let the palms "float" above the keyboard. Use the palm rest for resting, not typing. (3) For a single-piece flat keyboard, I find it is most comfortable for the plane of the keyboard to be parallel to the forearms. The appropriate front/back tilt of the keyboard is therefore dependent on the relative height of the keyboard and the torso: if the table is high relative to the chair, the keyboard needs to be tilted up at the far side; if the keyboard is on your lap, on a low under-desk keyboard tray, or on a belly-height standing desk, then the keyboard needs to be flat or even tilted down at the far side. The major reason that old typewriters had an aggressive tilt to them was because desks are historically the right height for handwriting (i.e. tall). (4) I find it helps a lot on a one-piece keyboard to keep the wrists with little to no ulnar deviation (turn toward the outside). It also helps to try to pronate them less (i.e. leave them turned so that the pinkies are a bit below the pointer fingers, instead of rotating them all the way flat). Split ergonomic keyboards eliminate the need to make some of these compromises by allowing the hands to be separated and allowing the sides to be "tented" (so the wrists can be less pronated) and positioned/oriented to eliminate ulnar deviation. (5) Try not to have too sharp an impact on each keystroke. Ideally use only the necessary force for each key press to register, and try to avoid slamming your fingers down hard through the bottom of the keystroke. A keyboard with better switches can help a lot here, with reliable actuation halfway through the keystroke and tactile/auditory feedback at the actuation point. Key switches that don't reliably actuate unless smashed are the worst.

petesergeant 1y ago

Anyone else suffering with this, I would highly recommend an app that forces you to stop typing for a few seconds every other couple of minutes, like AntiRSI. Hugely annoying but helped me where many keyboards did not

microtonal 1y ago

Runner up is the glove 80, but the only thing is I don't like how flimsy it feels in my hands compared to how solid the kinesis feels. Glove80 has a better key well and thumb cluster for most people though. I have made a detailed comparison here: https://danieldk.eu/MoErgo-Glove80-Review https://danieldk.eu/MoErgo-Glove80-Review Also agree with the sibling commenters. In order, get: - Help from an expert/exercise/do very regular breaks. - A properly adjustable chair. - A height-adjustable desk (get an electronic one, it's the only one you will ever tune properly, other desks are too much effort). - Only then an ergo keyboard. An ergo keyboard is worthless if you do not get the basics right (diagnose the issues, letting the blood flow, having a good posture). I am in some ergo keyboard Discords and it happens far too often that people by an ergo keyboard, but do not even have a setup where they can have a good posture.

psoundy 1y ago
I used kinesis advantage for 15 years, switched to a glove80 for the past 2, but recently went back to kinesis with an advantage2. The glove80 is very nice, but my hands are big enough that the kinesis thumb cluster works better for me and the cherry mx brown switches are much more satisfying than the low profile chocs. So ymmv, but for those with larger hands, it may make sense to try a kinesis.
qyckudnefDi5 1y ago
Have you tried any of the splitkb keyboards? If so, how do they compare to the kinesis adv 2?

harvey9 1y ago

Glove80 might not survive a drop on the floor but I've used mine full time for over a year and it still feels like new.

jval43 1y ago

That is exactly my experience, although a bit earlier. I landed on a Kinesis Advantage 2, at the time as the 360 wasn't even announced yet. Spent entirely too much money on other ones. There's a reason the Kinesis Advantage line has been around for decades. It really is a just a great ergonomic shape without many compromises. And mine has held up 7 years now with no issues. Anyone looking for pain relief should really try the Advantage 2 or 360. If the 360 Pro is too expensive don't shy away from considering a used Kinesis Advantage 2. Don't get an Advantage 1 as they have compatibility issues with newer machines.

Symbiote 1y ago
If cost is a concern, and you are an employee, please ask if work will pay. Also ask if they have a similar keyboard lying unused in a cupboard. I'll buy a €450 keyboard for any employee that asks for one. It's easily justified compared to the loss of productivity from RSI or similar.

lawn 1y ago

I agree with your list except for ortholinear. I firmly believe that row stagger (that you find on regular keyboards) are bad but you should have column stagger (to match the different lengths of your fingers).

atoav 1y ago

Having been extensively on computers for the past 25 years and I have never experienced the whole keyboard-/mouse-pain thing even in the slightest on myself. I know many collegues who did tho. I wonder whether this has to do with me being a bass and guitar player. Playing an instrument where you essentially press down thick steel wires with your finger tips with full force, while your fingers are in odd angled ("unhealthy") positions for hours certainly does something to your motoric system. I know anecdotal evidence with n=1 is useless, but the idea that motion is important to reduce body pains isn't exactly new or unresearched. A whole family of ergonomic chairs have evolved about that very idea. I know multiple people whose only solution to excruciating back pain was simply to exercise and build muscles in the back, and they tried every ergonomic chair in the book. The only thing that really helped was excercise. Since I don't have RSI take all that with a grain of salt, but maybe trying with those guitar-finger-strength-trainers for a month isn't that big of an investment?

akdor1154 1y ago
Similar experience (no rsi, 35, shit tier typing technique, bassist + pianist), same theory. Go get them fingers jacked!
Jcampuzano2 1y ago
Sadly I actually stopped playing guitar because of my issues after having played for almost 20 years. I'd played guitar since I was 12 years old and probably averaged at least an hour a day basically the entire time even into adulthood. Played obviously a hell of a lot more when I was a teenager though.i also was competing in powerlifting and used my grip and fingers for all sorts of stuff. I had surgery on both elbows and am told I may need to on my hands/wrists since the issue is a combination of nerve issues and wrist issues.

marginalia_nu 1y ago

I fairly recently got a Glove 80, still not entirely used to the thing but I can certainly tell my wrists are a lot happier. Was also looking at the Advantage 360, but with shipping it's nearly twice as expensive where I live so it was hard to motivate. Before that I was using a Keychron Q11, which is a split keyboard with a regular staggered layout. That helped my shoulders feel better, I have a pretty broad frame and regular keyboards put me in a kinda t-rex position, but my left wrist in particular was killing me since I couldn't type a fair few keys on the left side, c, x, z, and q, without constantly adjusting my hand position. Must say that the Glove 80 is growing on me as one heck of a comfortable experience. No idea how durable it is, it's certainly a light keyboard, though at the same time I'm not sure how well that actually conveys build quality. Like would the solder joints really have been more resistant to drops and impacts if it had a steel plate in the bottom like the Kinesis does?

kalaksi 1y ago

I have had ctrl and caps lock swapped for a long time. The default layout sucks for today's needs.

oktoberpaard 1y ago

I got RSI using a touchpad, which then transferred to using a normal mouse. I couldn’t do anything with a mouse for longer than a few minutes. I completely fixed it with a DXT Mouse 2 (and later 3). My normal (mechanical) keyboard doesn’t give me any issues, as long as it’s narrow enough (75% layout or less) that I can keep my mouse close enough to the center of my body that I don’t have to rotate my shoulder outwards too much. My natural resting position on my keyboard is with both arms coming in diagonally without bending at the wrists. I do a lot of work on the terminal, including programming, so I’m using it quite intensively and I never feel any strain. I tried to get used to a split orthogonal keyboard, but I couldn’t use it for extended periods without getting RSI like symptoms. Would I have persisted, I might have gotten used to it. Or maybe it just wasn’t the right one for me. Anyway, this is not to counter any of the things you said, because I basically followed the same path with my mouse, but it shows how different postures and usage patterns can lead to different outcomes. I’m still interested in ergonomic keyboards, though, and I might try one again in the future.