11 ms·

Rackspace accused of patent infringement for hosting Github

213 points by BummerCloud 14y ago

deelowe 14y ago
sigh...
mrcharles 14y ago
How many of these ridiculous lawsuits will it take before lawmakers realize how bad software patents are? This will waste a lot of time and money for something that shouldn't even exist.
- hfs 14y ago
  Why would lawmakers care about something that doesn't affect them at all? It's going to take a lawsuit against a company that actually affects them to have any action taken, and I can't think of anything off the top of my head that is actually in danger of that.
- genwin 14y ago
  The more lawsuits the better for the lawmakers, who get campaign cash from both sides of the issue. Frivolous patents is somewhat a campaign finance problem.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  The question you have asked is equivalent to another: "How many of these ridiculous wars will it take before arms manufacturers realize how bad violence is?"
- jcfrei 14y ago
  the more "ridiculous" lawsuits there are, the higher the incentive for lawmakers to keep those laws (since working in the state legislature is probably not their only source of income and law students probably compose by far the largest group in washington and in state parliaments)
gary4gar 14y ago
Access is denied. any mirrors?
iambot 14y ago
Could anyone translate the legalese into plain English for us lay-men.
- daenney 14y ago
  The gist (ha) is that Github and Rackspace themselves use some techniques that are described in those patents. Because of that they're now being sued for patent infringement. It's an 'obvious' patent troll, I doubt these patents would even hold up in court but 'till then...
  - blktiger 14y ago
    (Found this article online)[http://www.m-cam.com/patently-obvious/you-re-pirate-mr-grinch-intellectual-property-analysis-personalweb-technologies http://www.m-cam.com/patently-obvious/you-re-pirate-mr-grinc...] about PersonalWeb Technologies. I assume these suits are still going, anyone know anything about it?
  - jpkeisala 14y ago
    How is it really possible that there are companies that just holds patents and are allowed to sue others who does things. No shame. What a world we are living at... This seems to be company who is suing Github and Rackspace. http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=25360579 http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/sn...
    - andreasvc 14y ago
      Applying for a patent is a costly and tedious process, so it's not strange the there are companies ready to take the work from individual inventor's hands. If that weren't allowed, large companies would have an advantage since they have a legal department. In any case, making a law against patent trolls would be difficult because if you require a minimum amount of non-patent work from them, they would simply meet that amount and keep on trolling. I think the solution is not to make rules against them specifically, but to change the incentives. First make sure patent applications are non-trivial. Second place the initial burden of evidence on the plaintiff to prove that their patent is actually being infringed. But you're right, these people have no shame. But it's just not the patent troll, it's also a host of lawyers and judges who have interest in this stuff going on.
WestCoastJustin 14y ago
The patents were issued and the law must be enforced. You might not like it -- so change it! Reminds me of when Teddy Roosevelt vigorously enforced prohibition to the point that is really pissed people off. The point that I gleaned from this was that he wanted people to stand up and change the law. I hope that patent trolls raise a stink and enforce their rights because it will hopefully lead to change. UPDATE: see comments below.. I was incorrect in that he enforced prohibition. It was liquor sales on Sunday that he was enforcing as police commissioner in new york.
- USNetizen 14y ago
  Do you mean FRANKLIN Roosevelt? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_Uni... Prohibition took effect after Teddy Roosevelt died - during the Woodrow Wilson administration. It was repealed in the first few months of the Franklin D. Roosevelt administration in 1933.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- tzs 14y ago
  Wrong Roosevelt. Teddy was President from 1901 to 1909, and died in January 19. The Prohibition amendment was ratified 10 days after he died, and took effect one year later. The Presidents who were in office during Prohibition where Woodrow Wilson, Warren G. Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover, and Franklin D. Roosevelt. Franklin Roosevelt assumed office on March 4, 1933, when the effort to repeal it was already well under way. On March 22, weak bears and wines were legalized, and in December of that year Prohibition was repealed. I don't think there was ever any vigorous enforcement under Roosevelt. You must be thinking of someone else.
  - WestCoastJustin 14y ago
    My memory is a little hazy but after the comments I went and look it up. Teddy was the police commissioner for New York city and liquor sales were banned on Sunday (this is where my thought of prohibition came from). I guess the goal was to sober people up for Monday's workweek. Anyways, he vigorous enforced this law.. playing into my original observation that he wanted this law rolled back.
alimoeeny 14y ago
"Access denied", what is going on? S3 is messed up or they pulled the page?
- rrmm 14y ago
  http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Rackspace-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies...
  - Niten 14y ago
    Wait, Level3 is a patent troll now?
- gt384u 14y ago
  Neither. If you look at the S3 URL, they are URLs with expiry times after which they stop serving the content. The cryptographic signature makes it... let's call it "infeasible" to manipulate the URL to change the expiry time.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- freehunter 14y ago
  Apparently it's not a better link, since it just shows XML garbage. How about the press release: http://news.priorsmart.com/personalweb-technologies-v-rackspace-l6JD/ http://news.priorsmart.com/personalweb-technologies-v-racksp... Or a scribd document of the court filing: http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Rackspace-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies...
skymt 14y ago
The patents in question: http://www.google.com/patents/US5978791 http://www.google.com/patents/US5978791 http://www.google.com/patents/US6415280 http://www.google.com/patents/US6415280 http://www.google.com/patents/US6928442 http://www.google.com/patents/US6928442 http://www.google.com/patents/US7802310 http://www.google.com/patents/US7802310 http://www.google.com/patents/US7945539 http://www.google.com/patents/US7945539 http://www.google.com/patents/US7945544 http://www.google.com/patents/US7945544 http://www.google.com/patents/US7949662 http://www.google.com/patents/US7949662 http://www.google.com/patents/US8001096 http://www.google.com/patents/US8001096 http://www.google.com/patents/US8099420 http://www.google.com/patents/US8099420
- turshija 14y ago
  ... depend on all of the data in the data items and only on the data in the data item ... WUUUUT?
  - jc4p 14y ago
    An md5sum
    - VMG 14y ago
      git uses SHA1
      - apotheon 14y ago
        Well . . . use a salt and it seems this patent is trivially bypassed. Voila!
        jc4p 14y ago
        Or use the contents of the files AND Linus's email. Then it's not just the contents of the files!
- wbond 14y ago
  The titles of the patents: 5978791: Data Processing System Using Substantially Unique Identifiers to Identify Data Items, Whereby Data Items Have the Same Identifiers. 6415280: Identifying and Requesting Data in Network Using Identifiers Which Are Based On Contents of Data. 6928442: Enforcement and Policing of Licensed Content Using Content-based Identifiers. 7802310: Controlling Access to Data in a Data Processing System. 7945539: Distributing and Accessing Data in a Data Processing System. 7945544: Similarity-Based Access Control of Data in a Data Processing System. 7949662: De-duplication of Data in a Data Processing System. 8001096: Computer File System Using Content-Dependent File Identifiers. 8099420: Accessing Data in a Data Processing System.
campnic 14y ago
For a moment, based on the backtrack (amazonaws.com), I thought Amazon was suing Rackspace. It'd be nice to get that fixed.
mikey_p 14y ago
Some of these seem really questionable at first glance (note that I haven't read the entire patents yet) > United States Patent No. 6,415,280 "Identifying and Requesting Data in Network Using Identifiers Which Are Based On Contents of Data." This sounds alot like hashing the contents of a file to get and identifier for it. If anything it sounds like maybe Git itself violates this, but I thought that Git hashed the difference between all the changes of a commit to get the hash. Some of the others sounds equally obvious at first glance. I don't really understand why they are suing Rackspace for the Github service other than the fact that it is hosted by Rackspace and it seems they are an easy target since they are based in Texas along with the plantiff putting them in the same jurisdiction. It seems like some of the more generic patents related to "Controlling Access to Data in a Data Processing System," "Distributing and Accessing Data in a Data Processing System," and "Accessing Data in a Data Processing System" could apply to lots of other services and cloud providers anyway. Why not go after Amazon or someone else that does Git hosting?
- dfc 14y ago
  I doubt jurisdiction was a deciding factor in who to sue. But I hated Civil Procedure so I could be wrong...
  - icelancer 14y ago
    Jurisdiction is a huge factor when filing suits. IP lawyers do their best to move cases into Tyler, TX (or other backwoods cities) where the judges don't understand technology whatsoever. A popular tactic is to shake down porn companies for money using nuisance patent suits.
    - andreasvc 14y ago
      Do you really think it is because they supposedly don't understand technology? I've read that they are simply particularly "sympathetic" to patents over there, which is why there are a host of patent trolls / NPEs that have their mail address over there. This American Life had a good episode about it.
ceejayoz 14y ago
Interesting that Level3 - yes, that Level3 - is a 50% owner of the patents.
- russell 14y ago
  It would seem that Level3 has a chance to be a hero by licensing these patents to whomever for a nominal fee. Edit: replying to the comments. Licensing for a nominal fee isnt pure, but it is practical. It would certainly discourage the trolls. I dont think you can put something in the public domain if you are only a partial owner.
  - tisme 14y ago
    They could be a hero by placing them in the public domain. Licensing them for even a nominal fee would be extortion. $1 for something that should be $0 is an infinity too large, besides it would still require you to get that license. If someone were to charge me 'right of way' tomorrow to leave my house and the cost would only be $1 I wouldn't pay up, I'd shove them out of the way. There is not 'right' price for extortion.
  - ktizo 14y ago
    That wouldn't be being a hero. Being a hero in this instance would be dropping the whole thing and asking the patent office to kindly revoke the patents as you have just realised that they are rubbish and that you are destroying your own industry for short term gain. Licencing them for a nominal fee is still reserving the right to change your mind. Is a bit like saying that you aren't going to use the nukes, but you want to keep them around just in case you feel like obliterating anyone in the future.
krrose27 14y ago
Rackspace isn't the only one being sued by the troll today. Rackspace[1] Nexsan[2] Yahoo[3] It also appears that this is the second round. (From 2011) Caringo[4] NEC Corportation[5] Google[6] EMC/Vmware[7] [1]http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Rackspace-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies... [2]http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190872/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Nexsan-Technologies http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190872/PersonalWeb-Technologies... [3]http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190829/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Yahoo http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190829/PersonalWeb-Technologies... [4]http://www.scribd.com/doc/75152879/PersonalWeb-Technologies-v-Caringo http://www.scribd.com/doc/75152879/PersonalWeb-Technologies-... [5]http://www.scribd.com/doc/75137853/PersonalWeb-Technologies-v-NEC-Corporation-of-America http://www.scribd.com/doc/75137853/PersonalWeb-Technologies-... [6]http://www.scribd.com/doc/75142772/PersonalWeb-Technologies-v-Google-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/75142772/PersonalWeb-Technologies-... [7]http://www.scribd.com/doc/75152912/PersonalWeb-Technologies-v-EMC-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/75152912/PersonalWeb-Technologies-...
- Tuna-Fish 14y ago
  My google-fu is failing me, how did the round 1 end?
  - krrose27 14y ago
    Using PACER it appears all of the 2011 cases are still active and are in discovery. They are all set for trial in November of 2014.
- eckyptang 14y ago
  Basically anyone likely to be able to afford to pay up.
AmazingBytecode 14y ago
I'm pretty fed up with this kind of stuff so I decided to join the EFF today.
defen 14y ago
I can't view the link because it's expired, so I'll just post my rant here. The entire point of patents, as delineated in the U.S. Constitution, is "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." So patents are a means, of securing an end, which is "the progress of science and useful arts". Is anyone actually arguing at this point that our current patent regime is accomplishing this end? Would the world be a better place if git and github did not exist, and the only entity that could use the technologies in these patents were the patent holders?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- jabiko 14y ago
  Press release: http://news.priorsmart.com/personalweb-technologies-v-rackspace-l6JD/ http://news.priorsmart.com/personalweb-technologies-v-racksp... Complaint: http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Rackspace-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies...
- luriel 14y ago
  > Is anyone actually arguing at this point that our current patent regime is accomplishing this end? All through history patents have always hindered innovation and progress, and there is plenty of research to back this up: http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/against.htm http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/against.h... I think it should be obvious by now for anyone that we are well past the point where the system is fixable, the only solution is to abolish it or it will again become captured by trolls, oligopolies and lawyers and used to crush anyone doing anything innovative and useful.
  - kiba 14y ago
    I read Tim Wu's The Master Switch, and even there patents are often used as a weapon to monopolize or terrorize competitors.
  - 14y ago
davewicket 14y ago
Not a link.
hk_kh 14y ago
From their site[1]: About PersonalWeb owns 15 fundamental pending and issued patents and a sophisticated Natural Language Processing Engine used in developing its products and services[2]. All of it is full of similar gems. [1]: http://www.personalweb.com/About.html http://www.personalweb.com/About.html [2]: Products as: https://www.studypods.com/ https://www.studypods.com/ ...
lifeisstillgood 14y ago
Luckily I own the patent on the business model of suing for infringing overly broad software patents. I want 10 billion from the folks suing Rackspace for patent infringement, for infringing my patent, of suing for patent infringement.
- andybak 14y ago
  Old Slashdot joke. Sorry.
  - lifeisstillgood 14y ago
    Damn. Prior art.
kenster07 14y ago
If only it didn't cost 10's of thousands to have patents re-examined by the Patent Office -- we could put a lot of trolls out of business and destroy a lot of nonsense patents.
noonespecial 14y ago
11. Venue is proper in the Eastern District of Texas under 28 U.S.C. §§ 1391 and1400(b). PersonalWeb is a limited liability company incorporated in Smith County, Texaswith its principal place of business in Tyler, Texas. A substantial part of the events giving riseto the asserted claims occurred in this judicial district, Defendant transact business in this judicial district, and the patents were infringed in this judicial district I think maybe its time for all technology companies everywhere to boycott a certain district in East Texas. Don't ship there. Geolock all services so they aren't useable there. Hell, if Hulu can keep the Canadians out, this should be easy. If nothing else, it would send a message to the people living in that area that their local courts have been hijacked to do some very unfortunate things. It would send a pretty good message to other jurisdictions as well : "make a national nuisance of yourself, lose your interwebs." Want to stay out of patent court? Don't mess with Texas.
- jamesaguilar 14y ago
  Apparently the win rates in EDT aren't that great any more. Someone posted a link to this effect a few lawsuits ago. The reason why people still file there is because the judges all now have good working knowledge of patent law and that makes trials fairly efficient. Dunno if this is actually true, but.
  - noonespecial 14y ago
    It really doesn't matter what the "win rate" is when it costs 1.5 Million and takes 3 years to win. The trolls have their offices there and they appear before the same judges every day. I have no doubt this makes trials fairly efficient for them. A little fear in a court that if they start hearing a bunch of bogus patent cases and generally being troll friendly might make half the internet become inaccessible from their jurisdiction might not be a bad thing. Yes, that's pretty unfair to a lot of people, but unfair seems to be the currency of trade these days.
  - Natsu 14y ago
    That ignores the selection effects. Once word of their reputation got out, people started settling the weaker cases rather than litigating in East Texas. They also have helpful local rules, like the one that lets people file a cover sheet with the clerk a day early, getting a case number and priority. So even if you anticipate the lawsuit, you can't get out of EDT, as Cisco found out once upon a time.
udpheaders 14y ago
Patent Office says: Keep those software patent applications coming... We are running a special next week, especially for our patent troll customers: All software patents come with one free lawsuit in E.D. Texas. (Legal fees not included.)
Monotoko 14y ago
One question, how much would it cost to buy EVERY software patent? Millions, billions?
shock3naw 14y ago
They're not even trying to hide the fact that they're patent trolls: "We are located in East Texas, and we are developing innovative technologies and products. We have a team who is responsible for some of the web’s most popular software and applications, and we own some really amazing patents."
jeffreybaird 14y ago
In an interesting addition it looks like Personal Web Technologies was recently involved in an acquisition that resulted in these patents changing hands. http://www.personalweb.com/media/20110928_PressRelease_PersonalWeb.pdf http://www.personalweb.com/media/20110928_PressRelease_Perso...
- jeffreybaird 14y ago
  Part I found most interesting: "PersonalWeb has been working closely with the University of Texas at Tyler and other community participants to develop products in the search, social network and content filtering technologies. BDE CEO Kevin Bermeister said, “We are excited by this next phase in the business and are looking forward to working with PersonalWeb to pursue development, licensing and participation in businesses that use our patents for content addressable storage, cloud computing, search, social networking and other important developing technologies in the rapidly growing distributed computing category.”
grimey27 14y ago
Rackspace just issued a response: http://www.rackspace.com/blog/patent-trolls-make-them-pay/ http://www.rackspace.com/blog/patent-trolls-make-them-pay/
lordastral 14y ago
So one of the patents in question is about: "Data Processing System Using Substantially Unique Identifiers to Identify Data Items, Whereby Data Items Have the Same Identifiers" So they have a patent on a primary key?
lordastral 14y ago
So one of the patents in question is about: "Data Processing System Using Substantially Unique Identifiers to Identify Data Items, Whereby Data Items Have the Same Identifiers" So they have a patent on a primary key?

213 points by BummerCloud 14y ago

sigh...

How many of these ridiculous lawsuits will it take before lawmakers realize how bad software patents are? This will waste a lot of time and money for something that shouldn't even exist.

hfs 14y ago
Why would lawmakers care about something that doesn't affect them at all? It's going to take a lawsuit against a company that actually affects them to have any action taken, and I can't think of anything off the top of my head that is actually in danger of that.
genwin 14y ago
The more lawsuits the better for the lawmakers, who get campaign cash from both sides of the issue. Frivolous patents is somewhat a campaign finance problem.
CamperBob2 14y ago
The question you have asked is equivalent to another: "How many of these ridiculous wars will it take before arms manufacturers realize how bad violence is?"
jcfrei 14y ago
the more "ridiculous" lawsuits there are, the higher the incentive for lawmakers to keep those laws (since working in the state legislature is probably not their only source of income and law students probably compose by far the largest group in washington and in state parliaments)

gary4gar 14y ago

Access is denied. any mirrors?

iambot 14y ago

Could anyone translate the legalese into plain English for us lay-men.

daenney 14y ago
The gist (ha) is that Github and Rackspace themselves use some techniques that are described in those patents. Because of that they're now being sued for patent infringement. It's an 'obvious' patent troll, I doubt these patents would even hold up in court but 'till then...
- blktiger 14y ago
  (Found this article online)[http://www.m-cam.com/patently-obvious/you-re-pirate-mr-grinch-intellectual-property-analysis-personalweb-technologies http://www.m-cam.com/patently-obvious/you-re-pirate-mr-grinc...] about PersonalWeb Technologies. I assume these suits are still going, anyone know anything about it?
- jpkeisala 14y ago
  How is it really possible that there are companies that just holds patents and are allowed to sue others who does things. No shame. What a world we are living at... This seems to be company who is suing Github and Rackspace. http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=25360579 http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/sn...
  - andreasvc 14y ago
    Applying for a patent is a costly and tedious process, so it's not strange the there are companies ready to take the work from individual inventor's hands. If that weren't allowed, large companies would have an advantage since they have a legal department. In any case, making a law against patent trolls would be difficult because if you require a minimum amount of non-patent work from them, they would simply meet that amount and keep on trolling. I think the solution is not to make rules against them specifically, but to change the incentives. First make sure patent applications are non-trivial. Second place the initial burden of evidence on the plaintiff to prove that their patent is actually being infringed. But you're right, these people have no shame. But it's just not the patent troll, it's also a host of lawyers and judges who have interest in this stuff going on.

WestCoastJustin 14y ago

The patents were issued and the law must be enforced. You might not like it -- so change it! Reminds me of when Teddy Roosevelt vigorously enforced prohibition to the point that is really pissed people off. The point that I gleaned from this was that he wanted people to stand up and change the law. I hope that patent trolls raise a stink and enforce their rights because it will hopefully lead to change. UPDATE: see comments below.. I was incorrect in that he enforced prohibition. It was liquor sales on Sunday that he was enforcing as police commissioner in new york.

USNetizen 14y ago
Do you mean FRANKLIN Roosevelt? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_Uni... Prohibition took effect after Teddy Roosevelt died - during the Woodrow Wilson administration. It was repealed in the first few months of the Franklin D. Roosevelt administration in 1933.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
tzs 14y ago
Wrong Roosevelt. Teddy was President from 1901 to 1909, and died in January 19. The Prohibition amendment was ratified 10 days after he died, and took effect one year later. The Presidents who were in office during Prohibition where Woodrow Wilson, Warren G. Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover, and Franklin D. Roosevelt. Franklin Roosevelt assumed office on March 4, 1933, when the effort to repeal it was already well under way. On March 22, weak bears and wines were legalized, and in December of that year Prohibition was repealed. I don't think there was ever any vigorous enforcement under Roosevelt. You must be thinking of someone else.
- WestCoastJustin 14y ago
  My memory is a little hazy but after the comments I went and look it up. Teddy was the police commissioner for New York city and liquor sales were banned on Sunday (this is where my thought of prohibition came from). I guess the goal was to sober people up for Monday's workweek. Anyways, he vigorous enforced this law.. playing into my original observation that he wanted this law rolled back.

alimoeeny 14y ago

"Access denied", what is going on? S3 is messed up or they pulled the page?

rrmm 14y ago
http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Rackspace-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies...
- Niten 14y ago
  Wait, Level3 is a patent troll now?
gt384u 14y ago
Neither. If you look at the S3 URL, they are URLs with expiry times after which they stop serving the content. The cryptographic signature makes it... let's call it "infeasible" to manipulate the URL to change the expiry time.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

freehunter 14y ago
Apparently it's not a better link, since it just shows XML garbage. How about the press release: http://news.priorsmart.com/personalweb-technologies-v-rackspace-l6JD/ http://news.priorsmart.com/personalweb-technologies-v-racksp... Or a scribd document of the court filing: http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Rackspace-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies...

skymt 14y ago

The patents in question: http://www.google.com/patents/US5978791 http://www.google.com/patents/US5978791 http://www.google.com/patents/US6415280 http://www.google.com/patents/US6415280 http://www.google.com/patents/US6928442 http://www.google.com/patents/US6928442 http://www.google.com/patents/US7802310 http://www.google.com/patents/US7802310 http://www.google.com/patents/US7945539 http://www.google.com/patents/US7945539 http://www.google.com/patents/US7945544 http://www.google.com/patents/US7945544 http://www.google.com/patents/US7949662 http://www.google.com/patents/US7949662 http://www.google.com/patents/US8001096 http://www.google.com/patents/US8001096 http://www.google.com/patents/US8099420 http://www.google.com/patents/US8099420

turshija 14y ago
... depend on all of the data in the data items and only on the data in the data item ... WUUUUT?
- jc4p 14y ago
  An md5sum
  - VMG 14y ago
    git uses SHA1
    - apotheon 14y ago
      Well . . . use a salt and it seems this patent is trivially bypassed. Voila!
      - jc4p 14y ago
        Or use the contents of the files AND Linus's email. Then it's not just the contents of the files!
wbond 14y ago
The titles of the patents: 5978791: Data Processing System Using Substantially Unique Identifiers to Identify Data Items, Whereby Data Items Have the Same Identifiers. 6415280: Identifying and Requesting Data in Network Using Identifiers Which Are Based On Contents of Data. 6928442: Enforcement and Policing of Licensed Content Using Content-based Identifiers. 7802310: Controlling Access to Data in a Data Processing System. 7945539: Distributing and Accessing Data in a Data Processing System. 7945544: Similarity-Based Access Control of Data in a Data Processing System. 7949662: De-duplication of Data in a Data Processing System. 8001096: Computer File System Using Content-Dependent File Identifiers. 8099420: Accessing Data in a Data Processing System.

campnic 14y ago

For a moment, based on the backtrack (amazonaws.com), I thought Amazon was suing Rackspace. It'd be nice to get that fixed.

mikey_p 14y ago

Some of these seem really questionable at first glance (note that I haven't read the entire patents yet) > United States Patent No. 6,415,280 "Identifying and Requesting Data in Network Using Identifiers Which Are Based On Contents of Data." This sounds alot like hashing the contents of a file to get and identifier for it. If anything it sounds like maybe Git itself violates this, but I thought that Git hashed the difference between all the changes of a commit to get the hash. Some of the others sounds equally obvious at first glance. I don't really understand why they are suing Rackspace for the Github service other than the fact that it is hosted by Rackspace and it seems they are an easy target since they are based in Texas along with the plantiff putting them in the same jurisdiction. It seems like some of the more generic patents related to "Controlling Access to Data in a Data Processing System," "Distributing and Accessing Data in a Data Processing System," and "Accessing Data in a Data Processing System" could apply to lots of other services and cloud providers anyway. Why not go after Amazon or someone else that does Git hosting?

dfc 14y ago
I doubt jurisdiction was a deciding factor in who to sue. But I hated Civil Procedure so I could be wrong...
- icelancer 14y ago
  Jurisdiction is a huge factor when filing suits. IP lawyers do their best to move cases into Tyler, TX (or other backwoods cities) where the judges don't understand technology whatsoever. A popular tactic is to shake down porn companies for money using nuisance patent suits.
  - andreasvc 14y ago
    Do you really think it is because they supposedly don't understand technology? I've read that they are simply particularly "sympathetic" to patents over there, which is why there are a host of patent trolls / NPEs that have their mail address over there. This American Life had a good episode about it.

ceejayoz 14y ago

Interesting that Level3 - yes, that Level3 - is a 50% owner of the patents.

russell 14y ago
It would seem that Level3 has a chance to be a hero by licensing these patents to whomever for a nominal fee. Edit: replying to the comments. Licensing for a nominal fee isnt pure, but it is practical. It would certainly discourage the trolls. I dont think you can put something in the public domain if you are only a partial owner.
- tisme 14y ago
  They could be a hero by placing them in the public domain. Licensing them for even a nominal fee would be extortion. $1 for something that should be $0 is an infinity too large, besides it would still require you to get that license. If someone were to charge me 'right of way' tomorrow to leave my house and the cost would only be $1 I wouldn't pay up, I'd shove them out of the way. There is not 'right' price for extortion.
- ktizo 14y ago
  That wouldn't be being a hero. Being a hero in this instance would be dropping the whole thing and asking the patent office to kindly revoke the patents as you have just realised that they are rubbish and that you are destroying your own industry for short term gain. Licencing them for a nominal fee is still reserving the right to change your mind. Is a bit like saying that you aren't going to use the nukes, but you want to keep them around just in case you feel like obliterating anyone in the future.

krrose27 14y ago

Rackspace isn't the only one being sued by the troll today. Rackspace[1] Nexsan[2] Yahoo[3] It also appears that this is the second round. (From 2011) Caringo[4] NEC Corportation[5] Google[6] EMC/Vmware[7] [1]http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Rackspace-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies... [2]http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190872/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Nexsan-Technologies http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190872/PersonalWeb-Technologies... [3]http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190829/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Yahoo http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190829/PersonalWeb-Technologies... [4]http://www.scribd.com/doc/75152879/PersonalWeb-Technologies-v-Caringo http://www.scribd.com/doc/75152879/PersonalWeb-Technologies-... [5]http://www.scribd.com/doc/75137853/PersonalWeb-Technologies-v-NEC-Corporation-of-America http://www.scribd.com/doc/75137853/PersonalWeb-Technologies-... [6]http://www.scribd.com/doc/75142772/PersonalWeb-Technologies-v-Google-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/75142772/PersonalWeb-Technologies-... [7]http://www.scribd.com/doc/75152912/PersonalWeb-Technologies-v-EMC-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/75152912/PersonalWeb-Technologies-...

Tuna-Fish 14y ago
My google-fu is failing me, how did the round 1 end?
- krrose27 14y ago
  Using PACER it appears all of the 2011 cases are still active and are in discovery. They are all set for trial in November of 2014.
eckyptang 14y ago
Basically anyone likely to be able to afford to pay up.

AmazingBytecode 14y ago

I'm pretty fed up with this kind of stuff so I decided to join the EFF today.

defen 14y ago

I can't view the link because it's expired, so I'll just post my rant here. The entire point of patents, as delineated in the U.S. Constitution, is "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." So patents are a means, of securing an end, which is "the progress of science and useful arts". Is anyone actually arguing at this point that our current patent regime is accomplishing this end? Would the world be a better place if git and github did not exist, and the only entity that could use the technologies in these patents were the patent holders?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
jabiko 14y ago
Press release: http://news.priorsmart.com/personalweb-technologies-v-rackspace-l6JD/ http://news.priorsmart.com/personalweb-technologies-v-racksp... Complaint: http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies-et-al-v-Rackspace-et-al http://www.scribd.com/doc/106190890/PersonalWeb-Technologies...
luriel 14y ago
> Is anyone actually arguing at this point that our current patent regime is accomplishing this end? All through history patents have always hindered innovation and progress, and there is plenty of research to back this up: http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/against.htm http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/against.h... I think it should be obvious by now for anyone that we are well past the point where the system is fixable, the only solution is to abolish it or it will again become captured by trolls, oligopolies and lawyers and used to crush anyone doing anything innovative and useful.
- kiba 14y ago
  I read Tim Wu's The Master Switch, and even there patents are often used as a weapon to monopolize or terrorize competitors.
- 14y ago

davewicket 14y ago

Not a link.

hk_kh 14y ago

From their site[1]: About PersonalWeb owns 15 fundamental pending and issued patents and a sophisticated Natural Language Processing Engine used in developing its products and services[2]. All of it is full of similar gems. [1]: http://www.personalweb.com/About.html http://www.personalweb.com/About.html [2]: Products as: https://www.studypods.com/ https://www.studypods.com/ ...

lifeisstillgood 14y ago

Luckily I own the patent on the business model of suing for infringing overly broad software patents. I want 10 billion from the folks suing Rackspace for patent infringement, for infringing my patent, of suing for patent infringement.

andybak 14y ago
Old Slashdot joke. Sorry.
- lifeisstillgood 14y ago
  Damn. Prior art.

kenster07 14y ago

If only it didn't cost 10's of thousands to have patents re-examined by the Patent Office -- we could put a lot of trolls out of business and destroy a lot of nonsense patents.

noonespecial 14y ago

11. Venue is proper in the Eastern District of Texas under 28 U.S.C. §§ 1391 and1400(b). PersonalWeb is a limited liability company incorporated in Smith County, Texaswith its principal place of business in Tyler, Texas. A substantial part of the events giving riseto the asserted claims occurred in this judicial district, Defendant transact business in this judicial district, and the patents were infringed in this judicial district I think maybe its time for all technology companies everywhere to boycott a certain district in East Texas. Don't ship there. Geolock all services so they aren't useable there. Hell, if Hulu can keep the Canadians out, this should be easy. If nothing else, it would send a message to the people living in that area that their local courts have been hijacked to do some very unfortunate things. It would send a pretty good message to other jurisdictions as well : "make a national nuisance of yourself, lose your interwebs." Want to stay out of patent court? Don't mess with Texas.

jamesaguilar 14y ago
Apparently the win rates in EDT aren't that great any more. Someone posted a link to this effect a few lawsuits ago. The reason why people still file there is because the judges all now have good working knowledge of patent law and that makes trials fairly efficient. Dunno if this is actually true, but.
- noonespecial 14y ago
  It really doesn't matter what the "win rate" is when it costs 1.5 Million and takes 3 years to win. The trolls have their offices there and they appear before the same judges every day. I have no doubt this makes trials fairly efficient for them. A little fear in a court that if they start hearing a bunch of bogus patent cases and generally being troll friendly might make half the internet become inaccessible from their jurisdiction might not be a bad thing. Yes, that's pretty unfair to a lot of people, but unfair seems to be the currency of trade these days.
- Natsu 14y ago
  That ignores the selection effects. Once word of their reputation got out, people started settling the weaker cases rather than litigating in East Texas. They also have helpful local rules, like the one that lets people file a cover sheet with the clerk a day early, getting a case number and priority. So even if you anticipate the lawsuit, you can't get out of EDT, as Cisco found out once upon a time.

udpheaders 14y ago

Patent Office says: Keep those software patent applications coming... We are running a special next week, especially for our patent troll customers: All software patents come with one free lawsuit in E.D. Texas. (Legal fees not included.)

Monotoko 14y ago

One question, how much would it cost to buy EVERY software patent? Millions, billions?

shock3naw 14y ago

They're not even trying to hide the fact that they're patent trolls: "We are located in East Texas, and we are developing innovative technologies and products. We have a team who is responsible for some of the web’s most popular software and applications, and we own some really amazing patents."

jeffreybaird 14y ago

In an interesting addition it looks like Personal Web Technologies was recently involved in an acquisition that resulted in these patents changing hands. http://www.personalweb.com/media/20110928_PressRelease_PersonalWeb.pdf http://www.personalweb.com/media/20110928_PressRelease_Perso...

jeffreybaird 14y ago
Part I found most interesting: "PersonalWeb has been working closely with the University of Texas at Tyler and other community participants to develop products in the search, social network and content filtering technologies. BDE CEO Kevin Bermeister said, “We are excited by this next phase in the business and are looking forward to working with PersonalWeb to pursue development, licensing and participation in businesses that use our patents for content addressable storage, cloud computing, search, social networking and other important developing technologies in the rapidly growing distributed computing category.”

grimey27 14y ago

Rackspace just issued a response: http://www.rackspace.com/blog/patent-trolls-make-them-pay/ http://www.rackspace.com/blog/patent-trolls-make-them-pay/

lordastral 14y ago

So one of the patents in question is about: "Data Processing System Using Substantially Unique Identifiers to Identify Data Items, Whereby Data Items Have the Same Identifiers" So they have a patent on a primary key?

lordastral 14y ago