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Netflix Continues To Disappoint Linux Users
- koenigdavidmj 14y agoI wonder how much they are saying "this is a small and thus irrelevant user base", and how much they are saying "this is a dangerous user base". Linux support manages to get them the sort of user who is least concerned with intellectual property laws and most likely to have the technical skill to work around their DRM mechanisms.
- pspeter3 14y agoYet they have it on Chromebook. Why can't they just use that same code and limit it to Google Chrome?
- acdha 14y agoChromeOS implies a huge pile of system decisions. Imagine the outrage if they shipped support only for a single distribution or desktop environment!
- pspeter3 14y agoBut it is already on Chrome OS. It is certainly not ideal to limit it to one browser, but at least it would get it to linux users faster and they can improve from there.
- bunderbunder 14y agoWithout knowing more about the details, we can't assume that it's so simple. It might be that there is other software beyond Chrome itself that Netflix relies on in Chromebooks, and that software may or may not play nice with arbitrary distributions. Example wild speculation: Netflix for the Chromebooks relies on a kernel extension for DRM, and they know they wouldn't be able to get the desktop Linux community at large to swallow that pill.
- notatoad 14y agochromebooks have hardware DRM. your arbitrary linux computer doesnt.
- nuclear_eclipse 14y agoChromeOS supports certain DRM mechanisms through NaCl that are not available (or perhaps trustable?) on a standard Linux environment.
- naner 14y agoNetflix is available on several Linux devices (Chromebook, Android, Roku, Linux-based TVs, etc.) but these devices usually have some hardware-based DRM features available. There are no standards for DRM on the Linux desktop and we certainly don't have any hardware support for DRM so I don't see this ever coming to fruition.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- baddox 14y ago> most likely to have the technical skill to work around their DRM mechanisms. Which would be a preposterous thing to worry about. Why worry about breaking the DRM on crappy Netflix streams when you can either record straight from TV (and thus distribute brand new shows 15 minutes after they air) or rip straight from DVD/Blu-ray (and thus have a considerable quality advantage over Netflix)? Apart from the very small amount of Netflix-exclusive content (which hasn't been very notable, which granted will change with Arrested Development), the Netflix DRM does absolutely nothing except make customers worry about what devices are compatible.
- lunarscape 14y ago"Linux support manages to get them the sort of user who is least concerned with intellectual property laws" How so? In my personal experience it's Windows users who pirate the most software by far. Linux users choose an OS with far fewer commercial desktop apps and generally make do with open-source applications. Linux users have also been shown to pay more for indie games and apps and have been vocal in wanting Steam on Linux so they can throw money at Valve. Given how easy it is to rile up many Linux users with accusations of GPL infringement, I'd say that they generally understand and care more about IP laws than the average Windows user.
- drivebyacct2 14y agoYes, because my parents turn on their Roku and say "Wow, I'm sure concerned with intellectual property laws".
- jpxxx 14y agoStrange, Netflix works fine on Android Linux. What's desktop Linux doing wrong?
- bkerensa 14y agoThey see a bigger risk in content theft I would assume
- 27182818284 14y agoA couple of things come to mind. 1. Is that someone demanded this from the distribution company. We know the MPAA, RIAA, etc can make odd decisions about this sorta thing 2. They can't find the engineers. They struggled for the Android engineers and had (still do?) have open positions for it. That's how we knew Netflix was coming to Android long before anything was seen. They had job postings for Android video experts.
- fingerprinter 14y agoThat is a horrible phrasing of a question. Talk about inflammatory! Anyway, to answer your question, it has nothing to do with desktop linux but rather hardware. Chromebook, most Android devices, Roku etc typically have hardware DRM enabled that allows Netflix to run on the device.
- chii 14y agoi dont understand how you cannot emulate a hardware DRM module via software. How can the netflix app tell if the machine its running on has a legit DRM module, or an emulated one?
- jpxxx 14y agoCorrect. :) I have no tears to shed for this problem. Netflix in 2010: "Setting aside the debate around the value of content protection and DRM, they are requirements we must fulfill in order to obtain content from major studios for our subscribers to enjoy." If Netflix was that important to desktop linux users, the distros would have coaxed a Silverlight implementation from MS or worked on the HAL-Flash schism or done SOMETHING to enable video streaming services to do their legal duty to their content providers. They didn't, no Netflix for you. Hardware DRM assistance is helpful, but clearly not required.
- pspeter3 14y agoI really don't understand why they are choosing to do this, it just seems like they are choosing to arbitrarily limit a set of their users. I'd even be willing to accept that I had to use Chrome and it was an app in the Chrome store (since they have a Chromebook version)
- jabbahutq 14y agoNetflix is a joke these days
- staunch 14y agoWhat's the risk? There's nothing on Netflix that isn't already on The Pirate Bay. Wouldn't surprise me if it was a contractual obligation from Microsoft. In the past they were extremely aggressive in offering incentives and juicy licence terms for companies that would help push Silverlight.
- jiggy2011 14y agoBut even MS aren't interested in Silverlight anymore. I don't know what juicy license terms would be , considering I can stick a flash or HTML5 video on my website without paying adobe or W3C a cent.
- mikeryan 14y agoThe studios place DRM requirements on the content as part of the content deal. Its not Netflix's call.
- angryasian 14y agoyeah but i don't see why they couldn't of used a flash solution
- ajross 14y agoHulu and Amazon stream using flash only, over largely reverse-engineerable protocols. See, for example, the XBMC plugins for those services which work quite well. Now neither Hulu nor Amazon have the depth of content availability that Netflix does, but they're clearly not shackled by DRM handcuffs either.
- bduerst 14y agoI don't know about that. I've tried reversing Hulu's player to access their *.flv files, but they appear to do some sort of handshake that is uniquely generated for each user session and hashed.
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- jiggy2011 14y agoThe UK equivalent of Netflix called "Lovefilm" also moved from working fine under Linux (via Flash) to requiring Silverlight and of course moonlight doesn't work. Their reasoning was that Silverlight had better DRM so people couldn't rip the films. However they also offered a DVD rental service , so you could get any of the streamable films (plus a load more) delivered through the post at which point it would be trivial to rip them. I haven't looked but I'm pretty sure all of the films they offered for streaming are available as torrents too and probably at much higher quality.
- DrJokepu 14y agoLovefilm is not the equivalent of Netflix in the UK, it’s its direct competitor.
- jiggy2011 14y agoThat is true that both are now available here. For a while Lovefilm was the closest thing you could get to netflix.
- mmanfrin 14y ago> you could get any of the streamable films (plus a load more) delivered through the post at which point it would be trivial to rip them. Quibbling here, physically ripping a DVD is much less trivial than simply recording a stream.
- w1ntermute 14y agoDepends on how much DRM that stream has. In the case of Netflix, I'd say it's a lot easier to rip a DVD.
- Dylan16807 14y agoReally? In my experience, while ripping videos from the web is easy, ripping flash streams is a huge pain. Where a DVD just needs easily available software and hitting go. If you know a good way of ripping streams please tell me, wrangling Orbit's invasive and buggy plugin was the only thing that worked to grab RTMP the last time I tried.
- Nate75Sanders 14y agoAmazon Instant Video works under Linux...
- bkerensa 14y agoTrue!
- rogerbinns 14y agoThe wikipedia page says it works with Flash whose utility on Linux varies, otherwise there is a standalone program but it only works on Windows.
- cockneyupq 14y agoThey will see the error of their ways
- mapgrep 14y agoThe whole concept of "supporting Linux" is odd. Linux is a kernel. As a Mac user I don't go around asking if people support XNU. A company like Netflix has to target relatively consistent environments -- operating systems -- so a much more honest question would be to ask if Netflix will support Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo, Debian, Mint, etc. In that case, the question is its own answer ("no, none of those are big enough"). Diversity can be a weakness just as it can be a strength.
- jiggy2011 14y agoTechnically true, but when people say "Linux" they usually mean "GNU/Linux" and usually in the context of a desktop or server. Once you support one distro you are essentially supporting them all, even if not officially. Even though Ubuntu is going in it's own direction with Unity etc pretty much all of the base libs are the same. I could understand if they said "Yes, we support Ubuntu 12.04 only" in which case that would basically mean "you can probably get it to work on any distro under the sun but don't call us about it".
- dllthomas 14y agoLinux is a kernel, with a bunch of distros built on top of it, with a large degree of compatibility between them. There have been various efforts at standardization, with various degrees of success; it's not perfect, but getting something to work on, say, Fedora and Ubuntu is a much smaller task than getting something to work on Windows and Mac, and if something works on one distro it's usually possible to get it to run on your distro of choice with some finagling.
- tfinniga 14y agoHere's another theory - maybe it just doesn't make sense financially. A source-only netflix wouldn't fly. So, they would need to get developers, packagers, QA, and support for either one or multiple distributions and many different hardware configurations, not to mention dealing with linux's plethora of audio subsystems and graphics driver issues. It's possible to test on every ChromeOS device. It's much more expensive to QA and support every linux desktop configuration. Perhaps it's just not worth it because there are so few desktop linux users. The expected income would need to be much more than paying for linux devs/packagers/QA/support before it is a good business move.
- lukejduncan 14y agoHow many linux users don't have a box (ps3, wii, etc, etc) that DOES have Netflix on it and is conveniently already connected to a TV? Netflix's lack of Linux support, and choice of Silverlight, has always confused me but personally it's everywhere else I actually want it anyways.
- ChuckMcM 14y agoThis. Old joke, "Netflix works GREAT on Linux, get a Roku box." So "Netflix on Linux" is really 'NetFlix on a Linux running on a Laptop.' But here is the reality, if you make a list ordered by how many people would benefit of things you could put a Netflix client on, "Linux based laptops" would be nearly the bottom of the list, right above the Chumby. But if you made a list of "things we could do to irritate skittish big-content types" putting out a Netflix client on a Linux based system would be at near top of the list. That is a killer combination that I doubt will be dealt with soon.
- czervik 14y agoThe only time I really want Netflix on Linux is when traveling. Sure, I can watch a movie on my tablet, but I'd prefer to do so on my laptop.
- programminggeek 14y agoThe irony here is that if Netflix supported linux, it would likely be via Ubuntu only, and then a bunch of linux users with their own favorite blend of Linux would freak out and it would turn into a potential PR nightmare because Netflix "isn't open enough" and RMS or others would talk about how evil Netfix is for not supporting DRM free truly open technologies and so on and so forth. Also, the people who want Netflix for Linux already can get it on iOS, Android Xbox 360, PS3, Roku, Windows, Mac, ChromeOS, Apple TV, and on and on and on, so how many more Netflix subscribers are going to join that haven't already? Is that going to be enough money to offset the extra support costs as well as the likely PR nightmare described above?
- jiggy2011 14y agoRMS thinks that they are evil already. If it works on Ubuntu it can probably be ported easy enough. However maybe they are worried about getting support calls from people running Fluxbox?
- pasbesoin 14y agoThe irony is that Netflix has depended upon the "Linux ecosystem" for its technical existence. They're better than some, but spend a few years in real "corporate" environments, and you'll experience first hand a surfeit of such "taking, not giving" attitudes. If Netflix is merely the middleman, I nonetheless increasingly am coming to view them as an enabler of some very selfish people, people inhibiting and destructing our society in the pursuit of their own self-interests.
- wcchandler 14y agoHow difficult would it be to build out an Android instance with only Netflix installed? Then you could deploy the instance locally whenever needed... Or from a business point of view - get an ARM array of servers that can run it. Then have them launch on demand with user info, and allow people to "remote in" ?
- davidcelis 14y ago"I do feel this goes to show why Netflix is taking a continued hit on their stock price and subscriber base, simply put they lack innovation and are not catering to major niches such as Linux Users." Funny, I thought the stock price taking a dive was because of the Qwikster fiasco. And I thought the falling subscriber base was because of the separation of streaming and DVD plans paired with a lack of good content that is available to be streamed.
- Cieplak 14y agoSince Netflix supports android, it seems it should be possible to run the android application on a linux desktop. http://askubuntu.com/questions/104957/is-it-possible-to-install-androids-apk-file http://askubuntu.com/questions/104957/is-it-possible-to-inst... However, it may be the case that the display ends up being quite small.