9 ms·

Always Invite Anna

1154 points by walterbell 1y ago

poolnoodle 1y ago
This warmed my heart. Happy I read it.
huflungdung 1y ago
[dead]
outside1234 1y ago
This is some of the best advice you'll ever get about building inclusive teams and making people feel like they can approach you about anything. If you can approach them and get rejected each time, then surely they can approach you for advice on how to approach a problem.
nrawe 1y ago
It's a great message, thanks for sharing.
kaladin-jasnah 1y ago
Thanks for sharing this! It made my day a little brighter.
ge96 1y ago
That hero image I believe is from Lost in Translation Which has an interesting scene the x-ray machines I think were flying overhead on these rails going between rooms
- the_af 1y ago
  Yes, the header is from Lost in Translation.
9x39 1y ago
This is also good advice if you're sensing people aren't as part of the group or team anymore, you...make them part of it again. Putting forth the effort (which may not be returned) of coordinating and including people is often the price of keeping a group together that you're leading or invested in.
numbers 1y ago
this reminds me of a friend who we've excluded from the group b/c of the age old advice of "the worst they can say is no". Well, we invited him to everything at first it was either no responses or late responses like "sorry was busy with work". The whole friend group took their turns and attempts at inviting him. It sort of stopped altogether when we started getting responses like "hey, don't call me without scheduling a call with me before" or getting a text 3 days later "hey what's up, I don't want to hang out". He's a workaholic and believes his work is the most important thing (he switches jobs every 6-9 months) so the whole friend group has now just stopped trying. For context, this has been going on for 10 years and about a year ago everyone stopped trying.
- xg15 1y ago
  I think there is a difference between making it clear to a person they'll always have the option to join - and pushing that person to join. Anna in the story did not express regret that she never joined. And as far as we know, Alexei wasn't expecting her to take his invitations either - because it wasn't about actually getting her to go to the party, it was just about communicating to her that the "we've stopped inviting you to our group events because you always say no" moment never happened and she was still a part of the group. That was what she had appreciated in the end. On the other hand, what your group attempted seems more like a concerted push to change the person's behavior. Most people would probably reject that if they want to stay in control of their own plans.
  - squigz 1y ago
    What? The group's behavior is basically just being a group of friends and inviting another friend?
    - xg15 1y ago
      Well, I read that part like it was coordinated: "The whole friend group took their turns and attempts at inviting him." But yeah, might have misunderstood. In any case, the guy made clear he didn't really want to be part of that group, so then I wouldn't keep asking him either.
p1mrx 1y ago
Why Anna, and not a thousand other people in the area? She must've done something to enter the group in the first place.
- chrsig 1y ago
  You're sort of answering your own question. It was a matter of proximity. The thousand others were a greater distance in the initial conditions.
- mardef 1y ago
  Why not everyone invite a different Anna? I think the moral is for everyone to be individually a bit nicer, not one friend group to support an entire community.
- nenenejej 1y ago
  Friendship
deeg 1y ago
We need more heroes of kindness.
- kulahan 1y ago
  We need more kind acts. It feels like these days are only focused on useless platitudes and complaints about useless platitudes, with all action taking a back seat. Hell is full of good intentions, Heaven is full of good works.
  - nick__m 1y ago
    it's the first time a read the second part of the maxim, thanks.
tandr 1y ago
Thank you, a very heartwarming story indeed. I think you just have coined a new saying - "Always invite Anna" sounds intriguing, and yet at the same time very descriptive.
DrProtic 1y ago
Happy you shared this, such a heartwarming story.
robofanatic 1y ago
Great story. Alexei is definitely a lucky man to be surrounded by good friends otherwise it’s too easy to be teased by your friends like your acting like some sort of philosopher or something.
Ancapistani 1y ago
I'll add to this: it's usually not only OK, but appreciated when you're explicit about this. I'm not a very social person by nature, and it has taken years -- decades, actually -- for me to get to the point where I feel comfortable in professional situations. One of the strategies I've developed to cope with this is to just be completely honest and upfront about my intentions. This has backfired a couple of times when I started doing it, so I've since modified it to "wait until you're confident they're not shady". With that addition it has served me well.
- n4bz0r 1y ago
  > This has backfired a couple of times Mind telling more about that?
  - Ancapistani 1y ago
    In short, there are some things that are risky to tell your boss. The biggest one is if you’re unhappy. A good boss will try to work with you to resolve the issue, and help you transition to another role or company if that isn’t possible. A bad one will undermine you, violate your confidences by reporting the concern up the chain, or even outright fire you. I’ve had the all of the above happen, though it’s been a while. I think I’ve gotten better at judging people, but it’s also possible that I’ve just had a lucky streak.
    - 1718627440 1y ago
      That's exactly the distinction between formal and informal in many languages.
      - Ancapistani 1y ago
        Really? Now I’m going to have to brush up on my German, just so I can better understand the social “dance” of switching between “sie” and “du”…
        1y ago
thinkingtoilet 1y ago
This is a great thing to remember when you have friends with depression. I had serious medical issues for a year and a half of my life and experienced depression because of it. There were so many things I said no to that I otherwise wouldn't have. People stopped asking at times and it made me feel so much more isolated. It is very true that just asking someone can go a long way, even you you're 99.99% sure they'll say no.
Liwink 1y ago
I'm usually the Anna in the group, and always appreciate being remembered, even though it's not easy for me to say no.
BeetleB 1y ago
By the time you get to my age, your list of potential Anna's will be in the high dozens. You simply cannot keep this up with all the Anna's. A lot of people genuinely don't want to hang out with you. Likely that number exceeds the "real" Anna's by an order of magnitude. If there's someone I particularly like, I'll keep inviting him. But if the person is otherwise normal (e.g. clearly has a social life), I invite 3-5 times, and then stop. If the guy wants to hang out with me, the ball's in his court. You'll find no shortage of people who'll say "Hey man! What happened? I never hear from you any more!" To which I'd love to respond with s/any more/ever/ If you're the guy who always invite people regardless of their response (or non-response), you'll find that people will have an expectation that you always invite them. I would recommend not getting to that point.
- efsavage 1y ago
  I overheard two very outgoing co-workers once, where one asked the other if he was having his holiday party. "It was last weekend", he said. "Oh, I didn't get an invite" "That's because you never come" She looked shocked, I think she genuinely didn't know what to say. After an awkward silence she said, "but I liked to be invited" "I'll happily invite you next year if you promise to come" She smiled politely and walked away. It was memorable to me because it was such a foreign interaction on both sides from my perspective.
  - dexterdog 1y ago
    It's probably just ego on the one side. That person likes to be invited to feel like they are the more valuable person in the relationship. If I were the other person I would make sure that invitation is never extended.
    - squigz 1y ago
      I'm so glad I don't understand and thus can't play these games with people. It sounds tiring.
      - 1y ago
tantalor 1y ago
Sometimes they have some good reason (like a religious observance) and they don't want to spoil the mood with an awkward explanation.
throw849494836 1y ago
Maybe she was just being polite, after several years. "Friends" always invite us to their house. They have two large poorly behaved dogs, with no boundaries, and terrible hygiene. There is no way to explain, they love their dogs! So we always politely decline.
pjmlp 1y ago
Now that was an interesting read.
influx 1y ago
Conversely, tend towards saying yes if someone you want to hang out with invites you out, as they usually ask once and never again.
- globular-toast 1y ago
  This. You usually get one and only one chance with new people. People hate rejection and they're not going to keep asking. So a pro tip: if you're starting a new job or something and want to integrate into the social circles, be prepared to drop everything for those first few invitations. The first one is basically mandatory.
tolerance 1y ago
Was hoping that this was going to be about encouraging the use of shadow libraries. The author of this should extend his LibGen browser to consult Anna’s Archive and z-lib: https://github.com/Samin100/Alexandria https://github.com/Samin100/Alexandria
CalChris 1y ago
Along a similar vein, I was working at a company. I was pretty much the gang leader for lunch. One day a guy shows up at a desk. I dropped by and invited him to lunch, but thinking he’d say no. There was a considerable difference in our ages. But I thought I’d be polite and social. He thought for a few seconds and said … sure. He had the best stories. I have good stories. He had better. He’d been a dresser for Nureyev and traveled the world. He’d taught celestial navigation at RIT. He’d raced the Bermuda race and had a lifetime winning record against Buckley. And he was dead three months later from the cancer he had that day. I can’t remember any of the lunch gang but I can remember him.
constantcrying 1y ago
Also consider that maybe people do not want to party and the kind thing is not persistently inviting them, but rather actually find something to spend time with that person. Not wanting to go out "to party" is not a moral failing, a problem, a fault, something which someone needs to overcome. If you like that person you can find something to do on a Friday night you both enjoy, if you don't then I doubt that you really care for that person at all.
circadian 1y ago
I'm in my 40s now, but when I was very young I had quite a rough time living in shared accommodation. It was people reaching out and asking me if I wanted to go out, whether or not I could, that in the same way stuck with me as helping to deal with being lonely. I still have the memory of peoples kindness and this story reminded me of those kindnesses. It's kind of a beautiful memory to have, even when the times were dark. My interpretation is that Alexei might well have understood that Anna felt lonely / homesick. The reaching out could well have been simply sympathetic and well thought through to help include someone. That's what people did for me when I was young and out of my depth. Those people probably helped steer me into a good place when it could've gone bad. It's always nice to reflect on the kindness of others. :)
- bigiain 1y ago
  > My interpretation is that Alexei might well have understood that Anna felt lonely / homesick. Maybe? Perhaps Alexei was just one of those rare people who treated everybody with kindness? Either way, respect to Alexei - and everybody like him.
anttiharju 1y ago
Love the writing style
Shock9889 1y ago
It's a beautiful story, but honestly If Alexei really wanted to help Anna, he could've tried to ease her in their group, for example, by inviting her to a less stressful setting: a library, a friendly coffee date, etc. Anna's behaviour indicates social anxiety grown into general avoidance (speaking from my own experience), and what's described in this story is the worst possible way to help a person with this condition. Alexei felt good about himself though, I suppose.
- habinero 1y ago
  They're 18 year old college kids, cut them some slack.
- huhkerrf 1y ago
  This is such an uncharitable interpretation. They're college freshmen, not guidance counselors.
majkinetor 1y ago
Everybody, who thinks this is OK, should think again - what if Anna genuinely didn't like parties, you at parties, music at parties or whatever else. Re-invating in that case is disrespectful, intrusive and even rude as all interactions need to be feedback controlled. Sure, any generalization will lack the subtle cues of context but its safe to say that this was an exceptional situation rather than representative. People who seem to like this story for the feeling of warmth seem to me to be the similar ones as those who "save food" for the children of Africa - disconnection from the reality is huge.
- kixiQu 1y ago
  Why is it safe to say that would be exceptional rather than representative? (Couldn't I just as easily claim it's safe to say it's representative rather than exceptional?)
  - majkinetor 1y ago
    Because it's much, much more probable that person does not act in a convoluted way.
    - kixiQu 1y ago
      Appreciating invitations that you don't accept is something many (as, obviously, many in this comment section) do not consider convoluted.
- leetcrew 1y ago
  I'm inclined to agree, this was a weird read. after the first few no's, there was definitely an opportunity for alexei to make it clear to anna that she was always welcome, but he was going to stop inviting her every single time. this kinda ties into a more general blind spot for nerds on the internet. there's no obligation for people to include you in their personal lives (or vice versa) just because you vaguely know them. if someone chooses to do so and you want it to continue, you gotta reciprocate somehow.
- ysleepy 1y ago
wewewedxfgdf 1y ago
I let go of relationships where I feel the other person does not respond to several invitations to relate to me.
- cellu 1y ago
  agreed, relationships are built when all parties put effort.
kazinator 1y ago
> I know she’s always going to say no No you don't, though. The conclusion is not logically justified, any more than the concept of a lucky streak at the casino.
dzungfz 1y ago
This is really heartwarming. To be honest, I’m the kind of person who always wants to include others—invite them, reach out, make sure they know they belong. But sometimes when people reject the invites, I feel like “maybe someone like Anna in the story doesn’t really want to be with me.” Today I learned something from Alexei: “I know she’s always going to say no, but that’s not the point. I invite her so she’ll always feel included in the group.”
gcanyon 1y ago
This reminds me of a friend of mine from my 20s. Every time I went by where he lived, which was the house we all hung out at, so this was 3-7 times a week, he'd say "Hi G, want a beer?" "No, I don't drink," I'd reply. "Really?" he'd ask. "No, Craig, not ever." And he'd hesitate a second and then say, "Whoa." This went on for months. Finally I asked him if he really didn't understand that I had never had, and never would have, any alcohol. My father was an alcoholic -- everyone in our crowd knew, and knew how I handled the situation. Craig replied, "Yeah, I just figure maybe someday you'll want to try it, so I ask to be nice."
emmelaich 1y ago
Some people really don't like the beery noisy occasions that outings can become. And they might not ever tell you. Certainly in a company setting, for the teams cohesiveness, you should plan a variety of outings.
waysa 1y ago
This is especially valuable for friends who struggle with depression. They almost never feel like going out because depression sucks out all their energy. But they'll appreciate the invite and that they're not forgotten. It's harder this way for them to isolate and go deeper down the spiral. One rule that helped me fight my depression was to accept invites no matter what. Go to the loud bar I don't like? I'm in. Cake decorating workshop with annoyingly cheerful Jennifer? Sign me up. Join Joel for his 5am workout? I'm not sleeping anyway. You get the idea. But it can only work when others take the initiative.
- yazaddaruvala 1y ago
  I think one of the most important lessons in life (even as a healthy person) is realizing “motivation and action are cyclically causal” Of course “action follows motivation” but even when not motivated “motivation follows action”. For example, even as a healthy person I am not always motivated to go to the gym after a busy day at work which I am “so tired from”. I go dispite the lack of motivation. Unsurprisingly, I walk out of the gym feeling re-motivated and “with more energy”.
  - andai 1y ago
    I like how my friend phrased it: You can create energy through effort.
  - BeetleB 1y ago
    There are different types of depression, and going to a party when you're depressed can definitely exacerbate the depression. It sucks being alone at home. It sucks more to be alone in a party.
  - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
    You can take advantage of this phenomenon to snowball small actions into bigger ones, too. To get into the habit of working out, I started going to the gym everyday. I didn't work out everyday, but the act of going out of my way to be at the gym lent me the motivation to actually work out more often than not.
jll29 1y ago
Nice to have a post on HN about the human element, not just about homelabs and kernel patches, thanks for submitting and accepting it. I guess a generalized lesson can be derived from this story: Never give up on people.
nicbou 1y ago
If people keep declining invitations, I take the hint. Otherwise I feel like I'm pestering them. From my perspective, Anna is indistinguishable from someone who doesn't like me/the group/our plans that much. Organizers also put themselves out there when they suggest and idea and invite people. Being repeatedly shot down feels bad too. The core of my friend circles is the people who keep showing up. They're receptive to each other's plans and proactive about making them happen. When they show up, they bring the homemade dips. You can't get anything off the ground with a group of Annas.
- ttoinou 1y ago
  Maybe the difference is at least Anna is taking time to answer politely ? Nowadays, people just ignore / ghost you and don’t even take the time to answer
- globular-toast 1y ago
  One of the most difficult things in relationships is when each person thinks they are "doing the right thing" for the other, but it comes across as completely the opposite. It reminds me of a relationship I had once which didn't work out for many reasons, but one thing in particular stood out: how we each expected to ask and receive help. She would expect me to see that she needed help and just jump in. When no help was forthcoming she would just get more and more frustrated and annoyed that I wasn't helping. She treated me how she wanted to be treated: if she thought I needed help she'd just jump in and try to help. But I was also treating her how I wanted to be treated. I don't like it when people just jump in and help. I want to figure things out for myself and if I want help I'll ask for it. So by each treating each other how we wanted to be treated we just annoyed each other constantly. It turns out the "golden rule" doesn't actually work; you can't just assume people are the same as you. The invitation thing is similar. Some people will take "no" as a rejection. They know that if they say no then it means no, so they assume the same for others. But sometimes no really means "not this time, but please ask again". I have heard some people being really explicit when saying "no", like "sorry, I can't make it this time but I really want to join you so please invite me next time".
  - 1y ago
PeterStuer 1y ago
Most people do not understand passive socialization. They think 'social' always involves acting, that it means doing things or talking. For many, just 'being' is covering a social need. This can be just sitting together or like in the story just being made to feel included without the need to go beyond that.
wvh 1y ago
Never underestimate people's capacity for feeling left out, especially those that don't know how to show it. Loneliness and emotional disconnect are main drivers of depression and suicide. I agree with Alexei: always make an effort to invite everyone.
rmason 1y ago
Lot of wisdom in that article. You never know what people are going through. If she ever did share her problems with anyone it would be the guy who kept inviting her to party with the group.
nenenejej 1y ago
Even better, ask Anna what she wants to do. Maybe bowling on Sunday afternoon is more her thing.
- bonoboTP 1y ago
  Yep, if the group is constantly doing stuff she doesn't like, maybe she needs a better fitting group. I mean it may feel nice to be "included" in the invites to all the loud parties that the group is doing all the time, but if you hate loud parties, it is even better to be included in invites by a group that does stuff you like better. These invites that are always declined only provide an illusion of inclusion.
  - walterbell 1y ago
    > needs a better fitting group From the article: After that first semester, the friend group disbanded and we all went our separate ways.
  - nenenejej 1y ago
    Sort of. Usually people are into more than one thing. It is rare for partying to be the only thing a group is into.
blablablerg 1y ago
I'll go against the grain here. If I invite someone a couple of times, and constantly get declined no way I'll invite that person anymore, because I make an effort to invite you. Declining (repeatedly) makes me feel like an ass for inviting you. And I want friends that respond, not friends that reject me. Wanting to be invited just to decline sounds.. egotistical to me. A relationship is a two way street, and being that shy is a you problem. To even be more cynical, maybe Alexei wanted something more from Anna? Because I certainly haven't seen people invite someone to repeatedly get declined.
- walterbell 1y ago
  Per the second sentence of the article, declines were limited to party invites, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45348495#45355972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45348495#45355972 We ended up hanging out quite a bit during those early months.
alberth 1y ago
It's a touching story that gave me pause in thinking about my own life. The difficulty is, in many cultures - if you repeatedly invite someone and they don't attend - people view it as disrespectful to them. So knowing the difference between a friend who needs inclusion, and something else might be hard to discern. But agree, it's a story that should cause a moment of reflection on your own friends & interactions.
yapyap 1y ago
Very cute story, of course I expect(ed) a HN participant to rationalize the good vibes off this article — and I wasn’t wrong — but there’s also others sharing in that positivity, keep it up. :)
MollyRealized 1y ago
Person A declines Group B's invite. Group B thinks that it's a desire-based decision: that Person A does not want to participate. They don't always realize - because for many, this simply doesn't "track" - that Person A may simply consider themselves unworthy. This is something I think I am learning now, painfully late. I'm 51. I think I'm beginning to realize that I was a feral kitten for much of my life, claw-swiping at the milk syringe out of fear when people were trying to be nice to me.
sn9 1y ago
I've definitely done a version of this. Sometimes when my friends wanted to do something, I'd suggest asking someone who frequently declined and they'd ask what the point was. Well either our friend joins us for once or she declines, but if you at least ask she knows she was wanted and thought of. Pure upside.

Always Invite Anna

1154 points by walterbell 1y ago

poolnoodle 1y ago

This warmed my heart. Happy I read it.

huflungdung 1y ago

[dead]

outside1234 1y ago

This is some of the best advice you'll ever get about building inclusive teams and making people feel like they can approach you about anything. If you can approach them and get rejected each time, then surely they can approach you for advice on how to approach a problem.

nrawe 1y ago

It's a great message, thanks for sharing.

kaladin-jasnah 1y ago

Thanks for sharing this! It made my day a little brighter.

ge96 1y ago

That hero image I believe is from Lost in Translation Which has an interesting scene the x-ray machines I think were flying overhead on these rails going between rooms

the_af 1y ago
Yes, the header is from Lost in Translation.

9x39 1y ago

This is also good advice if you're sensing people aren't as part of the group or team anymore, you...make them part of it again. Putting forth the effort (which may not be returned) of coordinating and including people is often the price of keeping a group together that you're leading or invested in.

numbers 1y ago

this reminds me of a friend who we've excluded from the group b/c of the age old advice of "the worst they can say is no". Well, we invited him to everything at first it was either no responses or late responses like "sorry was busy with work". The whole friend group took their turns and attempts at inviting him. It sort of stopped altogether when we started getting responses like "hey, don't call me without scheduling a call with me before" or getting a text 3 days later "hey what's up, I don't want to hang out". He's a workaholic and believes his work is the most important thing (he switches jobs every 6-9 months) so the whole friend group has now just stopped trying. For context, this has been going on for 10 years and about a year ago everyone stopped trying.

xg15 1y ago
I think there is a difference between making it clear to a person they'll always have the option to join - and pushing that person to join. Anna in the story did not express regret that she never joined. And as far as we know, Alexei wasn't expecting her to take his invitations either - because it wasn't about actually getting her to go to the party, it was just about communicating to her that the "we've stopped inviting you to our group events because you always say no" moment never happened and she was still a part of the group. That was what she had appreciated in the end. On the other hand, what your group attempted seems more like a concerted push to change the person's behavior. Most people would probably reject that if they want to stay in control of their own plans.
- squigz 1y ago
  What? The group's behavior is basically just being a group of friends and inviting another friend?
  - xg15 1y ago
    Well, I read that part like it was coordinated: "The whole friend group took their turns and attempts at inviting him." But yeah, might have misunderstood. In any case, the guy made clear he didn't really want to be part of that group, so then I wouldn't keep asking him either.

p1mrx 1y ago

Why Anna, and not a thousand other people in the area? She must've done something to enter the group in the first place.

chrsig 1y ago
You're sort of answering your own question. It was a matter of proximity. The thousand others were a greater distance in the initial conditions.
mardef 1y ago
Why not everyone invite a different Anna? I think the moral is for everyone to be individually a bit nicer, not one friend group to support an entire community.
nenenejej 1y ago
Friendship

deeg 1y ago

We need more heroes of kindness.

kulahan 1y ago
We need more kind acts. It feels like these days are only focused on useless platitudes and complaints about useless platitudes, with all action taking a back seat. Hell is full of good intentions, Heaven is full of good works.
- nick__m 1y ago
  it's the first time a read the second part of the maxim, thanks.

tandr 1y ago

Thank you, a very heartwarming story indeed. I think you just have coined a new saying - "Always invite Anna" sounds intriguing, and yet at the same time very descriptive.

DrProtic 1y ago

Happy you shared this, such a heartwarming story.

robofanatic 1y ago

Great story. Alexei is definitely a lucky man to be surrounded by good friends otherwise it’s too easy to be teased by your friends like your acting like some sort of philosopher or something.

Ancapistani 1y ago

I'll add to this: it's usually not only OK, but appreciated when you're explicit about this. I'm not a very social person by nature, and it has taken years -- decades, actually -- for me to get to the point where I feel comfortable in professional situations. One of the strategies I've developed to cope with this is to just be completely honest and upfront about my intentions. This has backfired a couple of times when I started doing it, so I've since modified it to "wait until you're confident they're not shady". With that addition it has served me well.

n4bz0r 1y ago
> This has backfired a couple of times Mind telling more about that?
- Ancapistani 1y ago
  In short, there are some things that are risky to tell your boss. The biggest one is if you’re unhappy. A good boss will try to work with you to resolve the issue, and help you transition to another role or company if that isn’t possible. A bad one will undermine you, violate your confidences by reporting the concern up the chain, or even outright fire you. I’ve had the all of the above happen, though it’s been a while. I think I’ve gotten better at judging people, but it’s also possible that I’ve just had a lucky streak.
  - 1718627440 1y ago
    That's exactly the distinction between formal and informal in many languages.
    - Ancapistani 1y ago
      Really? Now I’m going to have to brush up on my German, just so I can better understand the social “dance” of switching between “sie” and “du”…
      - 1y ago

thinkingtoilet 1y ago

This is a great thing to remember when you have friends with depression. I had serious medical issues for a year and a half of my life and experienced depression because of it. There were so many things I said no to that I otherwise wouldn't have. People stopped asking at times and it made me feel so much more isolated. It is very true that just asking someone can go a long way, even you you're 99.99% sure they'll say no.

Liwink 1y ago

I'm usually the Anna in the group, and always appreciate being remembered, even though it's not easy for me to say no.

BeetleB 1y ago

By the time you get to my age, your list of potential Anna's will be in the high dozens. You simply cannot keep this up with all the Anna's. A lot of people genuinely don't want to hang out with you. Likely that number exceeds the "real" Anna's by an order of magnitude. If there's someone I particularly like, I'll keep inviting him. But if the person is otherwise normal (e.g. clearly has a social life), I invite 3-5 times, and then stop. If the guy wants to hang out with me, the ball's in his court. You'll find no shortage of people who'll say "Hey man! What happened? I never hear from you any more!" To which I'd love to respond with s/any more/ever/ If you're the guy who always invite people regardless of their response (or non-response), you'll find that people will have an expectation that you always invite them. I would recommend not getting to that point.

efsavage 1y ago
I overheard two very outgoing co-workers once, where one asked the other if he was having his holiday party. "It was last weekend", he said. "Oh, I didn't get an invite" "That's because you never come" She looked shocked, I think she genuinely didn't know what to say. After an awkward silence she said, "but I liked to be invited" "I'll happily invite you next year if you promise to come" She smiled politely and walked away. It was memorable to me because it was such a foreign interaction on both sides from my perspective.
- dexterdog 1y ago
  It's probably just ego on the one side. That person likes to be invited to feel like they are the more valuable person in the relationship. If I were the other person I would make sure that invitation is never extended.
  - squigz 1y ago
    I'm so glad I don't understand and thus can't play these games with people. It sounds tiring.
    - 1y ago

tantalor 1y ago

Sometimes they have some good reason (like a religious observance) and they don't want to spoil the mood with an awkward explanation.

throw849494836 1y ago

Maybe she was just being polite, after several years. "Friends" always invite us to their house. They have two large poorly behaved dogs, with no boundaries, and terrible hygiene. There is no way to explain, they love their dogs! So we always politely decline.

pjmlp 1y ago

Now that was an interesting read.

influx 1y ago

Conversely, tend towards saying yes if someone you want to hang out with invites you out, as they usually ask once and never again.

globular-toast 1y ago
This. You usually get one and only one chance with new people. People hate rejection and they're not going to keep asking. So a pro tip: if you're starting a new job or something and want to integrate into the social circles, be prepared to drop everything for those first few invitations. The first one is basically mandatory.

tolerance 1y ago

Was hoping that this was going to be about encouraging the use of shadow libraries. The author of this should extend his LibGen browser to consult Anna’s Archive and z-lib: https://github.com/Samin100/Alexandria https://github.com/Samin100/Alexandria

CalChris 1y ago

Along a similar vein, I was working at a company. I was pretty much the gang leader for lunch. One day a guy shows up at a desk. I dropped by and invited him to lunch, but thinking he’d say no. There was a considerable difference in our ages. But I thought I’d be polite and social. He thought for a few seconds and said … sure. He had the best stories. I have good stories. He had better. He’d been a dresser for Nureyev and traveled the world. He’d taught celestial navigation at RIT. He’d raced the Bermuda race and had a lifetime winning record against Buckley. And he was dead three months later from the cancer he had that day. I can’t remember any of the lunch gang but I can remember him.

constantcrying 1y ago

Also consider that maybe people do not want to party and the kind thing is not persistently inviting them, but rather actually find something to spend time with that person. Not wanting to go out "to party" is not a moral failing, a problem, a fault, something which someone needs to overcome. If you like that person you can find something to do on a Friday night you both enjoy, if you don't then I doubt that you really care for that person at all.

circadian 1y ago

I'm in my 40s now, but when I was very young I had quite a rough time living in shared accommodation. It was people reaching out and asking me if I wanted to go out, whether or not I could, that in the same way stuck with me as helping to deal with being lonely. I still have the memory of peoples kindness and this story reminded me of those kindnesses. It's kind of a beautiful memory to have, even when the times were dark. My interpretation is that Alexei might well have understood that Anna felt lonely / homesick. The reaching out could well have been simply sympathetic and well thought through to help include someone. That's what people did for me when I was young and out of my depth. Those people probably helped steer me into a good place when it could've gone bad. It's always nice to reflect on the kindness of others. :)

bigiain 1y ago
> My interpretation is that Alexei might well have understood that Anna felt lonely / homesick. Maybe? Perhaps Alexei was just one of those rare people who treated everybody with kindness? Either way, respect to Alexei - and everybody like him.

anttiharju 1y ago

Love the writing style

Shock9889 1y ago

It's a beautiful story, but honestly If Alexei really wanted to help Anna, he could've tried to ease her in their group, for example, by inviting her to a less stressful setting: a library, a friendly coffee date, etc. Anna's behaviour indicates social anxiety grown into general avoidance (speaking from my own experience), and what's described in this story is the worst possible way to help a person with this condition. Alexei felt good about himself though, I suppose.

habinero 1y ago
They're 18 year old college kids, cut them some slack.
huhkerrf 1y ago
This is such an uncharitable interpretation. They're college freshmen, not guidance counselors.

majkinetor 1y ago

Everybody, who thinks this is OK, should think again - what if Anna genuinely didn't like parties, you at parties, music at parties or whatever else. Re-invating in that case is disrespectful, intrusive and even rude as all interactions need to be feedback controlled. Sure, any generalization will lack the subtle cues of context but its safe to say that this was an exceptional situation rather than representative. People who seem to like this story for the feeling of warmth seem to me to be the similar ones as those who "save food" for the children of Africa - disconnection from the reality is huge.

kixiQu 1y ago
Why is it safe to say that would be exceptional rather than representative? (Couldn't I just as easily claim it's safe to say it's representative rather than exceptional?)
- majkinetor 1y ago
  Because it's much, much more probable that person does not act in a convoluted way.
  - kixiQu 1y ago
    Appreciating invitations that you don't accept is something many (as, obviously, many in this comment section) do not consider convoluted.
leetcrew 1y ago
I'm inclined to agree, this was a weird read. after the first few no's, there was definitely an opportunity for alexei to make it clear to anna that she was always welcome, but he was going to stop inviting her every single time. this kinda ties into a more general blind spot for nerds on the internet. there's no obligation for people to include you in their personal lives (or vice versa) just because you vaguely know them. if someone chooses to do so and you want it to continue, you gotta reciprocate somehow.
ysleepy 1y ago

wewewedxfgdf 1y ago

I let go of relationships where I feel the other person does not respond to several invitations to relate to me.

cellu 1y ago
agreed, relationships are built when all parties put effort.

kazinator 1y ago

> I know she’s always going to say no No you don't, though. The conclusion is not logically justified, any more than the concept of a lucky streak at the casino.

dzungfz 1y ago

This is really heartwarming. To be honest, I’m the kind of person who always wants to include others—invite them, reach out, make sure they know they belong. But sometimes when people reject the invites, I feel like “maybe someone like Anna in the story doesn’t really want to be with me.” Today I learned something from Alexei: “I know she’s always going to say no, but that’s not the point. I invite her so she’ll always feel included in the group.”

gcanyon 1y ago

This reminds me of a friend of mine from my 20s. Every time I went by where he lived, which was the house we all hung out at, so this was 3-7 times a week, he'd say "Hi G, want a beer?" "No, I don't drink," I'd reply. "Really?" he'd ask. "No, Craig, not ever." And he'd hesitate a second and then say, "Whoa." This went on for months. Finally I asked him if he really didn't understand that I had never had, and never would have, any alcohol. My father was an alcoholic -- everyone in our crowd knew, and knew how I handled the situation. Craig replied, "Yeah, I just figure maybe someday you'll want to try it, so I ask to be nice."

emmelaich 1y ago

Some people really don't like the beery noisy occasions that outings can become. And they might not ever tell you. Certainly in a company setting, for the teams cohesiveness, you should plan a variety of outings.

waysa 1y ago

This is especially valuable for friends who struggle with depression. They almost never feel like going out because depression sucks out all their energy. But they'll appreciate the invite and that they're not forgotten. It's harder this way for them to isolate and go deeper down the spiral. One rule that helped me fight my depression was to accept invites no matter what. Go to the loud bar I don't like? I'm in. Cake decorating workshop with annoyingly cheerful Jennifer? Sign me up. Join Joel for his 5am workout? I'm not sleeping anyway. You get the idea. But it can only work when others take the initiative.

yazaddaruvala 1y ago
I think one of the most important lessons in life (even as a healthy person) is realizing “motivation and action are cyclically causal” Of course “action follows motivation” but even when not motivated “motivation follows action”. For example, even as a healthy person I am not always motivated to go to the gym after a busy day at work which I am “so tired from”. I go dispite the lack of motivation. Unsurprisingly, I walk out of the gym feeling re-motivated and “with more energy”.
- andai 1y ago
  I like how my friend phrased it: You can create energy through effort.
- BeetleB 1y ago
  There are different types of depression, and going to a party when you're depressed can definitely exacerbate the depression. It sucks being alone at home. It sucks more to be alone in a party.
- OkayPhysicist 1y ago
  You can take advantage of this phenomenon to snowball small actions into bigger ones, too. To get into the habit of working out, I started going to the gym everyday. I didn't work out everyday, but the act of going out of my way to be at the gym lent me the motivation to actually work out more often than not.

jll29 1y ago

Nice to have a post on HN about the human element, not just about homelabs and kernel patches, thanks for submitting and accepting it. I guess a generalized lesson can be derived from this story: Never give up on people.

nicbou 1y ago

If people keep declining invitations, I take the hint. Otherwise I feel like I'm pestering them. From my perspective, Anna is indistinguishable from someone who doesn't like me/the group/our plans that much. Organizers also put themselves out there when they suggest and idea and invite people. Being repeatedly shot down feels bad too. The core of my friend circles is the people who keep showing up. They're receptive to each other's plans and proactive about making them happen. When they show up, they bring the homemade dips. You can't get anything off the ground with a group of Annas.

ttoinou 1y ago
Maybe the difference is at least Anna is taking time to answer politely ? Nowadays, people just ignore / ghost you and don’t even take the time to answer
globular-toast 1y ago
One of the most difficult things in relationships is when each person thinks they are "doing the right thing" for the other, but it comes across as completely the opposite. It reminds me of a relationship I had once which didn't work out for many reasons, but one thing in particular stood out: how we each expected to ask and receive help. She would expect me to see that she needed help and just jump in. When no help was forthcoming she would just get more and more frustrated and annoyed that I wasn't helping. She treated me how she wanted to be treated: if she thought I needed help she'd just jump in and try to help. But I was also treating her how I wanted to be treated. I don't like it when people just jump in and help. I want to figure things out for myself and if I want help I'll ask for it. So by each treating each other how we wanted to be treated we just annoyed each other constantly. It turns out the "golden rule" doesn't actually work; you can't just assume people are the same as you. The invitation thing is similar. Some people will take "no" as a rejection. They know that if they say no then it means no, so they assume the same for others. But sometimes no really means "not this time, but please ask again". I have heard some people being really explicit when saying "no", like "sorry, I can't make it this time but I really want to join you so please invite me next time".
- 1y ago

PeterStuer 1y ago

Most people do not understand passive socialization. They think 'social' always involves acting, that it means doing things or talking. For many, just 'being' is covering a social need. This can be just sitting together or like in the story just being made to feel included without the need to go beyond that.

wvh 1y ago

Never underestimate people's capacity for feeling left out, especially those that don't know how to show it. Loneliness and emotional disconnect are main drivers of depression and suicide. I agree with Alexei: always make an effort to invite everyone.

rmason 1y ago

Lot of wisdom in that article. You never know what people are going through. If she ever did share her problems with anyone it would be the guy who kept inviting her to party with the group.

nenenejej 1y ago

Even better, ask Anna what she wants to do. Maybe bowling on Sunday afternoon is more her thing.

bonoboTP 1y ago
Yep, if the group is constantly doing stuff she doesn't like, maybe she needs a better fitting group. I mean it may feel nice to be "included" in the invites to all the loud parties that the group is doing all the time, but if you hate loud parties, it is even better to be included in invites by a group that does stuff you like better. These invites that are always declined only provide an illusion of inclusion.
- walterbell 1y ago
  > needs a better fitting group From the article: After that first semester, the friend group disbanded and we all went our separate ways.
- nenenejej 1y ago
  Sort of. Usually people are into more than one thing. It is rare for partying to be the only thing a group is into.

blablablerg 1y ago

I'll go against the grain here. If I invite someone a couple of times, and constantly get declined no way I'll invite that person anymore, because I make an effort to invite you. Declining (repeatedly) makes me feel like an ass for inviting you. And I want friends that respond, not friends that reject me. Wanting to be invited just to decline sounds.. egotistical to me. A relationship is a two way street, and being that shy is a you problem. To even be more cynical, maybe Alexei wanted something more from Anna? Because I certainly haven't seen people invite someone to repeatedly get declined.

walterbell 1y ago
Per the second sentence of the article, declines were limited to party invites, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45348495#45355972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45348495#45355972 We ended up hanging out quite a bit during those early months.

alberth 1y ago

It's a touching story that gave me pause in thinking about my own life. The difficulty is, in many cultures - if you repeatedly invite someone and they don't attend - people view it as disrespectful to them. So knowing the difference between a friend who needs inclusion, and something else might be hard to discern. But agree, it's a story that should cause a moment of reflection on your own friends & interactions.

yapyap 1y ago

Very cute story, of course I expect(ed) a HN participant to rationalize the good vibes off this article — and I wasn’t wrong — but there’s also others sharing in that positivity, keep it up. :)

MollyRealized 1y ago

Person A declines Group B's invite. Group B thinks that it's a desire-based decision: that Person A does not want to participate. They don't always realize - because for many, this simply doesn't "track" - that Person A may simply consider themselves unworthy. This is something I think I am learning now, painfully late. I'm 51. I think I'm beginning to realize that I was a feral kitten for much of my life, claw-swiping at the milk syringe out of fear when people were trying to be nice to me.

sn9 1y ago

I've definitely done a version of this. Sometimes when my friends wanted to do something, I'd suggest asking someone who frequently declined and they'd ask what the point was. Well either our friend joins us for once or she declines, but if you at least ask she knows she was wanted and thought of. Pure upside.