4 ms·

Kevo app shutdown

133 points by asperous 1y ago

brian-armstrong 1y ago
Sorry for the convenience
leakycap 1y ago
> "After more than a decade of service .... users can no longer open/close or manage their door lock via the mobile app or web portal." Wow, a whole ten years for a door lock. Kind of like wemo's recent abandonment/EOL of their plugs... a big company like belkin can't keep an on/off switch working?
- uptown 1y ago
  They just couldn’t refrain from the self-congratulatory bullshit.
- gblargg 1y ago
  The cost of keeping the outlets working was more than their calculated user dissatisfaction cost.
- Moto7451 1y ago
  As an owner of a few of those smart plugs I can attest they didn’t work properly when supported. You could get them paired in matter but they just fall off the network and never come back until you did a full reset. I’m sure a few people didn’t have trouble but the Wemo support forum and Reddit were justifiably full of anger at the products.
  - mikestew 1y ago
    The old ones are rock-solid. I use one to control an attic fan, which isn’t easy to get to, but it has never failed in three or four years of use. Another sits outside under the eaves, to control the hummingbird feeder heaters. Again, several years, always works. The new ones, however, are unreliable garbage. I have no idea what they broke, but they were a waste of money. Same symptoms you report.
- userbinator 1y ago
  Meanwhile, there are countless century-old (or even more) dumb locks in regular use, and they will continue to function even when some apocalyptic event destroys all infrastructure.
- swiftcoder 1y ago
  At least with the wemo there is fairly decent 3rd-party support at this point...
baobun 1y ago
2 months notice is very short, especially considering some of these will have been deployed for a decade... A year or so would have been expected. Some of these will have their owners on the other side of the world with no way to get back in time. Keep this in mind next time you consider depending on Assa Abloy - bummer to see them lose their ways.
- gblargg 1y ago
  If you don't have the physical key available to you outside your house, you failed to have a backup option for the inevitable failure of the electronics.
  - boie0025 1y ago
    I definitely agree with the spirit of this, but I also know a lot of non technical people who aren't as paranoid about things like this as I am (we have a keypad lock, backup keys in mounted lockboxes along with a 9v battery to power the keypad if need be), and they just expect that paying for something fairly critical like a door lock means it will either work normally, or give an indication that stuff might go sideways soon ("low battery! Replace or be locked out", for example). I suspect stories like "I left my house without my keys on the day they shut it down to go for a walk and couldn't get back into my home." Or "I somehow locked my keys in my car, including the backup house key. Luckily my backup car key is in the house." Only to realize the lock isn't working normally and there are 100 emails warning them about this in their "updates" tab.. buried under a mountain of spam. There will definitely be people who wind up stuck with this, especially with such short notice, and it won't necessarily be because they didn't plan. Now I'm going to go double check my lockbox.
- esseph 1y ago
  Meh, nothing a drill with a decent bit won't fix
  - pavel_lishin 1y ago
    Unless you keep your drill inside.
recursivedoubts 1y ago
Internet of Bricks
- burnt-resistor 1y ago
  Of shitty self-shitting bricks
jakedata 1y ago
"ends support for smartphone enabled"... If anyone thought for one second that any device which requires external "cloud" support would continue work beyond what is convenient/profitable for the provider then I have a wifi-only dishwasher to sell you. No, really - please buy it from me.
- mingus88 1y ago
  It depends. According to the link this lock was supported for over ten years, and the landscape for this type of device was pretty Wild West back then. There are a lot of devices that never even got that much support. Today, give me any HomeKit supported device and I’m satisfied it will work for as long as I need it to without some dodgy 3rd party app siphoning my data. And let’s be honest, if you were buying fridges or washing machines based on WiFi features that’s on you. Locks and lights have legitimate uses for remote control and always have.
  - itake 1y ago
    > And let’s be honest, if you were buying fridges or washing machines based on WiFi features that’s on you. I don't understand what you mean by this? My clothes will smell really bad if I leave them in the washer wet. If the appliance has a leak, I need to be nearby to remediate. Thus its not safe for me to start the appliance before I leave for 8+ hours. If I can remotely start my washing machine, just prior to me arriving home, I can move the clothes to the dryer.
    - rkomorn 1y ago
      Remote start, and finish notifications, are genuinely useful things. At the same time, I don't know if they're actually worth the downsides of needing to create an account, having hackable IoT things, installing an app per appliance brand (at least), etc vs, say, a timer and/or delay.
    - kikkia 1y ago
      Don't most washers and dryers have timed start like dishwashers do? I always remember mine having pictures like that but maybe that's just not a common thing
dmitrygr 1y ago
Turns out that the “S” in “IoT” stands not only for “security” but also for “support”.
chrisallick 1y ago
lol "probably just use a key."
- grebc 1y ago
  Sounds to obvious and reasonable.
syntaxing 1y ago
I honestly think mandatory local support for HomeKit standard is one of the best designs. I lost internet despite having power due to a city wide outage. Having HomeKit still work for smart lights and outlet + home assistant was awesome. Pretty much anything HomeKit supported will last “perpetually” for its smart features.
- moepstar 1y ago
  > Pretty much anything HomeKit supported will last “perpetually” for its smart features. How so, should Apple ever decide they'll remove it from tvOS/HomepodOS? And frankly, having to use Homekit for automations (or using it at all) is - compared to Home Assistant - frustrating, especially given their more or less unlimited resources. And don't even get me started on Siri - compared to what it was when it started on the iPhone 4s i don't feel it made like any progress, at all. Having updated to iOS 26 a few days ago - congratulations, Siri is now failing 100% to "turn off bedside lamp" which worked fine on 18.x and ever before. No, i don't think Apple is going to keep Homekit's lights on (heh) indefinitely - and wouldn't bet the farm (or house) on it.
- molticrystal 1y ago
  Europe petitioned for a Don't Kill Games initiative, while I support it whole heartily, this seems like something that is a bit more important and would fit right in with that movement.
- crooked-v 1y ago
  Also Matter/Thread, which is effectively the successor to platform-specific protocols like Homekit for local-only stuff.
ekianjo 1y ago
Don't buy connected stuff is a lesson people still need to learn
- bhhaskin 1y ago
  Connected stuff is fine, but who owns the connection matters.
  - burnt-resistor 1y ago
    Private equity will buy anything and everything even moderately profitable using LBOs, stick them with the loans, take out more loans to pay themselves, spin them off, and wind them down. Basically no one is going to run a business for the sake of customers or brand goodwill because, in the real world, there are no regulations or motivations to do so because "everything is a scam" is the normalized deviancy. Take even a boring other industry, say single phase motor start and run capacitors. In the US, 3 of the 4 major original manufacturers of said products are owned by private equity and manufacture under under an array of cannibalistic turtles that M&A'ed basically every manufacturer. The net result is increased prices and shorter product life.
    - nbngeorcjhe 1y ago
      > stick them with the loans, take out more loans to pay themselves, spin them off, and wind them down China would probably just imprison the people responsible for things like this
      - anonzzzies 1y ago
        and rightly so
    - anonzzzies 1y ago
      Two of my largest clients are factories in Germany and Italy that make specialist screws. Been running profitable since the 50s by the families. That I like.
    - 1y ago
VladVladikoff 1y ago
Sort of surprising that the app is cloud based rather than Bluetooth. You would expect a Bluetooth lock to keep working even if the cloud infrastructure was offline. And if the locks are only wifi, doesn’t that mean they would go through batteries like crazy? How long can a battery powered smart lock stay online?
- reactordev 1y ago
  And lose the ability to data mine and show you ads while you try to get into your own home, fat chance…
- bri3d 1y ago
  They’re Bluetooth based and worked offline, but like so many “cloud” products, the app required an account which it seems to use to provision the key material for Bluetooth. I’m assuming they’re shutting down the account servers - so depending on how long the app goes between logins (or if the key material expires or not), it may be possible to extend their use. This would be a fun reverse engineering project, probably!
Negitivefrags 1y ago
This annoys me greatly. When I built my house I went full home automation. At the time I was telling my friends about how important it was not to have cloud dependancy, and how I was doing everything local. I use KNX as the main backbone and Home Assistant for control. And everything was local with the one exception of my Kevo door lock. At the time I built, there just wasn’t a perfect local only solution. I hadn’t planned properly for a way to integrate a wired in solution into the joinary around the door due to the particular circumstances of where it was, so I needed something wireless, and nothing wireless was local only at the time. What pisses me off is that it’s the one thing I compromised on, and it’s the one thing that bit me. Now I have very little notice to find a replacement with the same features.
- numbsafari 1y ago
  Don’t buy anything from Assa Abloy, local or not.
  - rebuilder 1y ago
    As someone living in a country where Abloy locks are used everywhere, I’m interested to hear what’s wrong with them
    - privatelypublic 1y ago
      One of their digital lock designs had a rather cough Pleasing vulnerability. But other than that it's vendor lock-in (heh), and lack of availability in the US. With most so called locksmiths being drillsmiths in the US, not being able to clone DD and dimple keys. Puck one. Or maybe the OP is just bitter they can't pick it for their next "belt" after getting chuffed with themselves picking average american garbage.
      - diftraku 1y ago
        > One of their digital lock designs had a rather cough Pleasing vulnerability. I'm assuming you're referring to the VingCard vulnerability from 2018? (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43896360 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43896360) Digital locks aside, this is more applicable to any lock you buy and rely on (substitute US with your local region): > lack of availability in the US I wouldn't go out of my way to find something like Schlage here, when Abloy (Assa Abloy) locks are available in abundance with locksmiths able to duplicate usually all the key variants.
abtinf 1y ago
This is where proper Apple Home accessories shine. No need for apps to configure them or to use them.
- wilg 1y ago
  The only problem is that Apple Home, Siri, and all related frameworks and APIs barely work. (I also have my entire Home on Apple Home. They've done an awful job!)
  - tpmoney 1y ago
    I was really hoping Apple’s involvement in the matter/thread design would have pushed the local control and configurable by default into the mainstream. Sadly it seems like it got tossed along the way. I have a new Honeywell thermostat that supports Matter and supposedly local control. But as far as I can tell in order to get access to the QR code / pairing data for connecting it to a matter network in the first place, you have to set it up online and sign up for an account on their (terrible) app. Zigbee and Z-Wave it is then. And anything that is WiFi connected must run or be earlier flashable to esphome.
    - wilg 1y ago
      At this point, I don't care if they connect all this stuff directly to the NSA if that's what it takes to get it to function properly.
z3ugma 1y ago
Ugh, I'm so incensed. This is the 2nd IOT product in my home getting bricked within 2 months. This is one of the reasons I am working on an enclosure-compatible open-source version of the 2nd gen Nest thermostat over at https://sett.homes/ https://sett.homes/ . It reuses the enclosure, encoder ring, display, and mounts of the Nest but replaces the "thinking" part with an open-source PCB that can interact with Home Assistant. Nest has been pretty-badly supported in Home Assistant for over a year anyway, missing important connected features. I bet the same approach would work for the Kevo lock that I've got too...
- Barbing 1y ago
  Thank you for keeping good stuff out of landfills!
- Mistletoe 1y ago
  Thank you for this. Our 2nd gen Nest is our pride and joy and Google has done nothing but trash it continually.
  - z3ugma 1y ago
    It's still the prettiest thermostat out there in my opinion, one of the reasons I wanted to save mine
- btreecat 1y ago
  Honestly I found the "smart" parts of my nest to be pointless once I connected it to HA. I have automations, sensors, and weather in HA. I'm looking at moving to a zwave thermostat now. I wouldn't have gotten the nest but it was a (re)gift and I didn't want it to go to waste. Now Google made it waste.
  - z3ugma 1y ago
    Yeah, same feeling. The "learning" portion ended up being a bust. My HA automations are a lot simpler, so a beautiful dial on the wall, that I can control locally and automate, is what I'm after. All the Zwave thermostats have been so ugly as far as what I have found
ashayh 1y ago
Buy locally configurable stuff only. That means Zigbee and Zwave and use them with Home Assistant. There are many locks and devices which support either. There's a learning curve in the beginning, but once you set it up correctly not only you get privacy and control your own devices, you also get far more options for automations and useful or plain cool things in general.
- cortesoft 1y ago
  This is fine for the HackerNews crowd, but most people aren’t going to have the skills and/or time to run a local setup, and it’s not unreasonable for them to want smart lock functionality.
  - xmprt 1y ago
    If you buy a device that works over Zigbee or Zwave, a layperson doesn't need to have the skills to run a local setup because some third party can always come in and help with the integration (either some third party cloud solution or contractors who can come to your house and set up the local solution for you)
    - 542354234235 1y ago
      Exactly. Most of those IoT products will connect directly with Apple Homekit, Google Home, Smartthings, etc. without some other hub, app, cloud. Which makes it likely it can be kept working regardless of what that company does. You don't have to go full local setup to avoid the most proprietary IoT devices.
wpm 1y ago
I remember a year or two ago the FCC was here in the comments asking people about IoT and what we felt the issues were. Sadly, I have no hope of anything to come out of that, not that the current admin really changed anything about that hope either. This sort of shutdown should, immediately, with the full force of the law, mandate a release of a working version of the software and a working firmware update to switch it to that version of the software, that is licensed MIT or BSD, with full source code, that allows one to build the app themselves and keep using it as it was. If you don't wanna keep rolling with it, fine, go ahead and move off of it. But this enshittified rug pull is infuriating and it cannot be allowed to continue this way. Absolute scummy behavior. Just fucking open source it, assholes.
kalleboo 1y ago
From a quick look, these are still being sold new on Amazon (by third-party sellers)
komali2 1y ago
I never understood the smart lock. Some other connected appliances make sense - HVAC for example. But unlocking my door with a key is such a trivially easy, failure-proof thing to do, and every smart lock I've ever seen so riddled with failure modes, that it boggles my mind anyone would go through the cost and effort to install.
- function_seven 1y ago
  I love walking up to my front door and having it automatically unlock when I’m carrying groceries. It’s also really nice to just leave the house and have it lock automatically behind me. But I didn’t fall for cloud bullshit. It’s purely local and z-wave.
  - komali2 1y ago
    But, the obvious failure mode: you assume it locked automatically behind you, but how can you be guaranteed of this without checking? It seems to me at that point it's better to just lock it with a key, which guarantees it's locked.
    - 542354234235 1y ago
      I like my auto lock feature, but I manually lock it as a habit and only rely on the auto lock as a backup in case I forget. I only have to touch the keypad to lock it and can hear it lock. Also, I can check remotely if it is locked (even though the lock can/does work completely without a need for a connection).
    - function_seven 1y ago
      I get a notification when the doors lock. I can also check the status of the lock in Home Assistant. If for some reason the deadbolt jams, or the door was not actually locked, then I risk it for those few hours. It hasn't happened yet. I have probably "manually" forgotten to lock my door more times than that. (e.g. Carrying items out to the car, I think I will go back for more, then I get distracted and leave instead.)
- 1y ago
newobj 1y ago
buy stupid devices win stupid prizes
neilv 1y ago
They try to sell you replacement product in the same announcement: > To help make this transition easier, we’re offering our steepest discounts ever on trusted smart lock replacements, available exclusively to Kevo users. Are the executives confused by IoT, and it doesn't register that they are remotely disabling a product that they (the brand they bought) already sold? Or do they know what they're doing, but they think a judge will be confused by IoT?. (If only there were a mnemonic that would help everyone remember that ASSA ABLOY is to be avoided...)
mahrain 1y ago
There really are too few business models available to build sustainable IoT solutions, apart from subscriptions (and only Security companies seem to have figured this out), pyramid schemes (letting your new users pay for maintaining the whole solution), or plain old planned obsolescence (with forced upgrades, like with Smartphones). I'm not sure what models would work, apart from regulators stepping in and mandating x years of updates, like with the European regulations. Which basically comes down to #3.
- quitit 1y ago
  Folks in corporate thought users would just love a garbage spyware app that reproduces functionality already available under the various home automation platforms - but with extra steps and pointless online requirements. Then corporate finally realises that years of "user 000128571 locked door" log files are worth precisely f'all to advertisers.
h4ch1 1y ago
I'd recommend everyone who buys IoT devices first search if the device is jailbreak-able and/or guides exist that enable you to load homebrew software/control it with open source alternatives. I have yet to have a single issue with any of my IoT devices because I always make sure I have an escape hatch when the manufacturer decides to pull the plug.
quitit 1y ago
Rather barefaced to squeeze in a sales pitch to an End-of-life notice. "Let us slap you again the future!" Seems like the right time to switch to an offering that can't be so easily trashed.
- kevincox 1y ago
  Yeah, at first I thought they were going to provide a free replacement. But no, just asking for more money from the people they just pissed off.
baggachipz 1y ago
"We're killing the product you bought! Here, buy another product from us!" ...And Lucy pulls the football once again.
wg0 1y ago
I worry about TP-Link bulbs and cameras. Some legislation is required. Regulations aren't as bad.
- ranger_danger 1y ago
  > Some legislation is required Is it not enough to simply let the people decide who they want to do business with? I'm genuinely curious.
  - inanutshellus 1y ago
    Is the article itself not .... "genuinely" enough? 1. Buy $thing in good faith 2. $thing stops working for $reasons 3. Go to step 1 versus 1. Buy $thing in good faith 2. It cannot be sabotaged by its own corporate creator due to legislation 3. Visit the Bahamas with all your extra money.
  - sofixa 1y ago
    How would a prospective buyer know that the company will shut their product service down? Sometimes, it's a company that has done it before (e.g. Google). But not always.

133 points by asperous 1y ago

Sorry for the convenience

> "After more than a decade of service .... users can no longer open/close or manage their door lock via the mobile app or web portal." Wow, a whole ten years for a door lock. Kind of like wemo's recent abandonment/EOL of their plugs... a big company like belkin can't keep an on/off switch working?

uptown 1y ago
They just couldn’t refrain from the self-congratulatory bullshit.
gblargg 1y ago
The cost of keeping the outlets working was more than their calculated user dissatisfaction cost.
Moto7451 1y ago
As an owner of a few of those smart plugs I can attest they didn’t work properly when supported. You could get them paired in matter but they just fall off the network and never come back until you did a full reset. I’m sure a few people didn’t have trouble but the Wemo support forum and Reddit were justifiably full of anger at the products.
- mikestew 1y ago
  The old ones are rock-solid. I use one to control an attic fan, which isn’t easy to get to, but it has never failed in three or four years of use. Another sits outside under the eaves, to control the hummingbird feeder heaters. Again, several years, always works. The new ones, however, are unreliable garbage. I have no idea what they broke, but they were a waste of money. Same symptoms you report.
userbinator 1y ago
Meanwhile, there are countless century-old (or even more) dumb locks in regular use, and they will continue to function even when some apocalyptic event destroys all infrastructure.
swiftcoder 1y ago
At least with the wemo there is fairly decent 3rd-party support at this point...

baobun 1y ago

2 months notice is very short, especially considering some of these will have been deployed for a decade... A year or so would have been expected. Some of these will have their owners on the other side of the world with no way to get back in time. Keep this in mind next time you consider depending on Assa Abloy - bummer to see them lose their ways.

gblargg 1y ago
If you don't have the physical key available to you outside your house, you failed to have a backup option for the inevitable failure of the electronics.
- boie0025 1y ago
  I definitely agree with the spirit of this, but I also know a lot of non technical people who aren't as paranoid about things like this as I am (we have a keypad lock, backup keys in mounted lockboxes along with a 9v battery to power the keypad if need be), and they just expect that paying for something fairly critical like a door lock means it will either work normally, or give an indication that stuff might go sideways soon ("low battery! Replace or be locked out", for example). I suspect stories like "I left my house without my keys on the day they shut it down to go for a walk and couldn't get back into my home." Or "I somehow locked my keys in my car, including the backup house key. Luckily my backup car key is in the house." Only to realize the lock isn't working normally and there are 100 emails warning them about this in their "updates" tab.. buried under a mountain of spam. There will definitely be people who wind up stuck with this, especially with such short notice, and it won't necessarily be because they didn't plan. Now I'm going to go double check my lockbox.
esseph 1y ago
Meh, nothing a drill with a decent bit won't fix
- pavel_lishin 1y ago
  Unless you keep your drill inside.

recursivedoubts 1y ago

Internet of Bricks

burnt-resistor 1y ago
Of shitty self-shitting bricks

jakedata 1y ago

"ends support for smartphone enabled"... If anyone thought for one second that any device which requires external "cloud" support would continue work beyond what is convenient/profitable for the provider then I have a wifi-only dishwasher to sell you. No, really - please buy it from me.

mingus88 1y ago
It depends. According to the link this lock was supported for over ten years, and the landscape for this type of device was pretty Wild West back then. There are a lot of devices that never even got that much support. Today, give me any HomeKit supported device and I’m satisfied it will work for as long as I need it to without some dodgy 3rd party app siphoning my data. And let’s be honest, if you were buying fridges or washing machines based on WiFi features that’s on you. Locks and lights have legitimate uses for remote control and always have.
- itake 1y ago
  > And let’s be honest, if you were buying fridges or washing machines based on WiFi features that’s on you. I don't understand what you mean by this? My clothes will smell really bad if I leave them in the washer wet. If the appliance has a leak, I need to be nearby to remediate. Thus its not safe for me to start the appliance before I leave for 8+ hours. If I can remotely start my washing machine, just prior to me arriving home, I can move the clothes to the dryer.
  - rkomorn 1y ago
    Remote start, and finish notifications, are genuinely useful things. At the same time, I don't know if they're actually worth the downsides of needing to create an account, having hackable IoT things, installing an app per appliance brand (at least), etc vs, say, a timer and/or delay.
  - kikkia 1y ago
    Don't most washers and dryers have timed start like dishwashers do? I always remember mine having pictures like that but maybe that's just not a common thing

dmitrygr 1y ago

Turns out that the “S” in “IoT” stands not only for “security” but also for “support”.

chrisallick 1y ago

lol "probably just use a key."

grebc 1y ago
Sounds to obvious and reasonable.

syntaxing 1y ago

I honestly think mandatory local support for HomeKit standard is one of the best designs. I lost internet despite having power due to a city wide outage. Having HomeKit still work for smart lights and outlet + home assistant was awesome. Pretty much anything HomeKit supported will last “perpetually” for its smart features.

moepstar 1y ago
> Pretty much anything HomeKit supported will last “perpetually” for its smart features. How so, should Apple ever decide they'll remove it from tvOS/HomepodOS? And frankly, having to use Homekit for automations (or using it at all) is - compared to Home Assistant - frustrating, especially given their more or less unlimited resources. And don't even get me started on Siri - compared to what it was when it started on the iPhone 4s i don't feel it made like any progress, at all. Having updated to iOS 26 a few days ago - congratulations, Siri is now failing 100% to "turn off bedside lamp" which worked fine on 18.x and ever before. No, i don't think Apple is going to keep Homekit's lights on (heh) indefinitely - and wouldn't bet the farm (or house) on it.
molticrystal 1y ago
Europe petitioned for a Don't Kill Games initiative, while I support it whole heartily, this seems like something that is a bit more important and would fit right in with that movement.
crooked-v 1y ago
Also Matter/Thread, which is effectively the successor to platform-specific protocols like Homekit for local-only stuff.

ekianjo 1y ago

Don't buy connected stuff is a lesson people still need to learn

bhhaskin 1y ago
Connected stuff is fine, but who owns the connection matters.
- burnt-resistor 1y ago
  Private equity will buy anything and everything even moderately profitable using LBOs, stick them with the loans, take out more loans to pay themselves, spin them off, and wind them down. Basically no one is going to run a business for the sake of customers or brand goodwill because, in the real world, there are no regulations or motivations to do so because "everything is a scam" is the normalized deviancy. Take even a boring other industry, say single phase motor start and run capacitors. In the US, 3 of the 4 major original manufacturers of said products are owned by private equity and manufacture under under an array of cannibalistic turtles that M&A'ed basically every manufacturer. The net result is increased prices and shorter product life.
  - nbngeorcjhe 1y ago
    > stick them with the loans, take out more loans to pay themselves, spin them off, and wind them down China would probably just imprison the people responsible for things like this
    - anonzzzies 1y ago
      and rightly so
  - anonzzzies 1y ago
    Two of my largest clients are factories in Germany and Italy that make specialist screws. Been running profitable since the 50s by the families. That I like.
  - 1y ago

VladVladikoff 1y ago

Sort of surprising that the app is cloud based rather than Bluetooth. You would expect a Bluetooth lock to keep working even if the cloud infrastructure was offline. And if the locks are only wifi, doesn’t that mean they would go through batteries like crazy? How long can a battery powered smart lock stay online?

reactordev 1y ago
And lose the ability to data mine and show you ads while you try to get into your own home, fat chance…
bri3d 1y ago
They’re Bluetooth based and worked offline, but like so many “cloud” products, the app required an account which it seems to use to provision the key material for Bluetooth. I’m assuming they’re shutting down the account servers - so depending on how long the app goes between logins (or if the key material expires or not), it may be possible to extend their use. This would be a fun reverse engineering project, probably!

Negitivefrags 1y ago

This annoys me greatly. When I built my house I went full home automation. At the time I was telling my friends about how important it was not to have cloud dependancy, and how I was doing everything local. I use KNX as the main backbone and Home Assistant for control. And everything was local with the one exception of my Kevo door lock. At the time I built, there just wasn’t a perfect local only solution. I hadn’t planned properly for a way to integrate a wired in solution into the joinary around the door due to the particular circumstances of where it was, so I needed something wireless, and nothing wireless was local only at the time. What pisses me off is that it’s the one thing I compromised on, and it’s the one thing that bit me. Now I have very little notice to find a replacement with the same features.

numbsafari 1y ago
Don’t buy anything from Assa Abloy, local or not.
- rebuilder 1y ago
  As someone living in a country where Abloy locks are used everywhere, I’m interested to hear what’s wrong with them
  - privatelypublic 1y ago
    One of their digital lock designs had a rather cough Pleasing vulnerability. But other than that it's vendor lock-in (heh), and lack of availability in the US. With most so called locksmiths being drillsmiths in the US, not being able to clone DD and dimple keys. Puck one. Or maybe the OP is just bitter they can't pick it for their next "belt" after getting chuffed with themselves picking average american garbage.
    - diftraku 1y ago
      > One of their digital lock designs had a rather cough Pleasing vulnerability. I'm assuming you're referring to the VingCard vulnerability from 2018? (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43896360 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43896360) Digital locks aside, this is more applicable to any lock you buy and rely on (substitute US with your local region): > lack of availability in the US I wouldn't go out of my way to find something like Schlage here, when Abloy (Assa Abloy) locks are available in abundance with locksmiths able to duplicate usually all the key variants.

abtinf 1y ago

This is where proper Apple Home accessories shine. No need for apps to configure them or to use them.

wilg 1y ago
The only problem is that Apple Home, Siri, and all related frameworks and APIs barely work. (I also have my entire Home on Apple Home. They've done an awful job!)
- tpmoney 1y ago
  I was really hoping Apple’s involvement in the matter/thread design would have pushed the local control and configurable by default into the mainstream. Sadly it seems like it got tossed along the way. I have a new Honeywell thermostat that supports Matter and supposedly local control. But as far as I can tell in order to get access to the QR code / pairing data for connecting it to a matter network in the first place, you have to set it up online and sign up for an account on their (terrible) app. Zigbee and Z-Wave it is then. And anything that is WiFi connected must run or be earlier flashable to esphome.
  - wilg 1y ago
    At this point, I don't care if they connect all this stuff directly to the NSA if that's what it takes to get it to function properly.

z3ugma 1y ago

Ugh, I'm so incensed. This is the 2nd IOT product in my home getting bricked within 2 months. This is one of the reasons I am working on an enclosure-compatible open-source version of the 2nd gen Nest thermostat over at https://sett.homes/ https://sett.homes/ . It reuses the enclosure, encoder ring, display, and mounts of the Nest but replaces the "thinking" part with an open-source PCB that can interact with Home Assistant. Nest has been pretty-badly supported in Home Assistant for over a year anyway, missing important connected features. I bet the same approach would work for the Kevo lock that I've got too...

Barbing 1y ago
Thank you for keeping good stuff out of landfills!
Mistletoe 1y ago
Thank you for this. Our 2nd gen Nest is our pride and joy and Google has done nothing but trash it continually.
- z3ugma 1y ago
  It's still the prettiest thermostat out there in my opinion, one of the reasons I wanted to save mine
btreecat 1y ago
Honestly I found the "smart" parts of my nest to be pointless once I connected it to HA. I have automations, sensors, and weather in HA. I'm looking at moving to a zwave thermostat now. I wouldn't have gotten the nest but it was a (re)gift and I didn't want it to go to waste. Now Google made it waste.
- z3ugma 1y ago
  Yeah, same feeling. The "learning" portion ended up being a bust. My HA automations are a lot simpler, so a beautiful dial on the wall, that I can control locally and automate, is what I'm after. All the Zwave thermostats have been so ugly as far as what I have found

ashayh 1y ago

Buy locally configurable stuff only. That means Zigbee and Zwave and use them with Home Assistant. There are many locks and devices which support either. There's a learning curve in the beginning, but once you set it up correctly not only you get privacy and control your own devices, you also get far more options for automations and useful or plain cool things in general.

cortesoft 1y ago
This is fine for the HackerNews crowd, but most people aren’t going to have the skills and/or time to run a local setup, and it’s not unreasonable for them to want smart lock functionality.
- xmprt 1y ago
  If you buy a device that works over Zigbee or Zwave, a layperson doesn't need to have the skills to run a local setup because some third party can always come in and help with the integration (either some third party cloud solution or contractors who can come to your house and set up the local solution for you)
  - 542354234235 1y ago
    Exactly. Most of those IoT products will connect directly with Apple Homekit, Google Home, Smartthings, etc. without some other hub, app, cloud. Which makes it likely it can be kept working regardless of what that company does. You don't have to go full local setup to avoid the most proprietary IoT devices.

wpm 1y ago

I remember a year or two ago the FCC was here in the comments asking people about IoT and what we felt the issues were. Sadly, I have no hope of anything to come out of that, not that the current admin really changed anything about that hope either. This sort of shutdown should, immediately, with the full force of the law, mandate a release of a working version of the software and a working firmware update to switch it to that version of the software, that is licensed MIT or BSD, with full source code, that allows one to build the app themselves and keep using it as it was. If you don't wanna keep rolling with it, fine, go ahead and move off of it. But this enshittified rug pull is infuriating and it cannot be allowed to continue this way. Absolute scummy behavior. Just fucking open source it, assholes.

kalleboo 1y ago

From a quick look, these are still being sold new on Amazon (by third-party sellers)

komali2 1y ago

I never understood the smart lock. Some other connected appliances make sense - HVAC for example. But unlocking my door with a key is such a trivially easy, failure-proof thing to do, and every smart lock I've ever seen so riddled with failure modes, that it boggles my mind anyone would go through the cost and effort to install.

function_seven 1y ago
I love walking up to my front door and having it automatically unlock when I’m carrying groceries. It’s also really nice to just leave the house and have it lock automatically behind me. But I didn’t fall for cloud bullshit. It’s purely local and z-wave.
- komali2 1y ago
  But, the obvious failure mode: you assume it locked automatically behind you, but how can you be guaranteed of this without checking? It seems to me at that point it's better to just lock it with a key, which guarantees it's locked.
  - 542354234235 1y ago
    I like my auto lock feature, but I manually lock it as a habit and only rely on the auto lock as a backup in case I forget. I only have to touch the keypad to lock it and can hear it lock. Also, I can check remotely if it is locked (even though the lock can/does work completely without a need for a connection).
  - function_seven 1y ago
    I get a notification when the doors lock. I can also check the status of the lock in Home Assistant. If for some reason the deadbolt jams, or the door was not actually locked, then I risk it for those few hours. It hasn't happened yet. I have probably "manually" forgotten to lock my door more times than that. (e.g. Carrying items out to the car, I think I will go back for more, then I get distracted and leave instead.)
1y ago

newobj 1y ago

buy stupid devices win stupid prizes

neilv 1y ago

They try to sell you replacement product in the same announcement: > To help make this transition easier, we’re offering our steepest discounts ever on trusted smart lock replacements, available exclusively to Kevo users. Are the executives confused by IoT, and it doesn't register that they are remotely disabling a product that they (the brand they bought) already sold? Or do they know what they're doing, but they think a judge will be confused by IoT?. (If only there were a mnemonic that would help everyone remember that ASSA ABLOY is to be avoided...)

mahrain 1y ago

There really are too few business models available to build sustainable IoT solutions, apart from subscriptions (and only Security companies seem to have figured this out), pyramid schemes (letting your new users pay for maintaining the whole solution), or plain old planned obsolescence (with forced upgrades, like with Smartphones). I'm not sure what models would work, apart from regulators stepping in and mandating x years of updates, like with the European regulations. Which basically comes down to #3.

quitit 1y ago
Folks in corporate thought users would just love a garbage spyware app that reproduces functionality already available under the various home automation platforms - but with extra steps and pointless online requirements. Then corporate finally realises that years of "user 000128571 locked door" log files are worth precisely f'all to advertisers.

h4ch1 1y ago

I'd recommend everyone who buys IoT devices first search if the device is jailbreak-able and/or guides exist that enable you to load homebrew software/control it with open source alternatives. I have yet to have a single issue with any of my IoT devices because I always make sure I have an escape hatch when the manufacturer decides to pull the plug.

quitit 1y ago

Rather barefaced to squeeze in a sales pitch to an End-of-life notice. "Let us slap you again the future!" Seems like the right time to switch to an offering that can't be so easily trashed.

kevincox 1y ago
Yeah, at first I thought they were going to provide a free replacement. But no, just asking for more money from the people they just pissed off.

baggachipz 1y ago

"We're killing the product you bought! Here, buy another product from us!" ...And Lucy pulls the football once again.

wg0 1y ago

I worry about TP-Link bulbs and cameras. Some legislation is required. Regulations aren't as bad.

ranger_danger 1y ago
> Some legislation is required Is it not enough to simply let the people decide who they want to do business with? I'm genuinely curious.
- inanutshellus 1y ago
  Is the article itself not .... "genuinely" enough? 1. Buy $thing in good faith 2. $thing stops working for $reasons 3. Go to step 1 versus 1. Buy $thing in good faith 2. It cannot be sabotaged by its own corporate creator due to legislation 3. Visit the Bahamas with all your extra money.
- sofixa 1y ago
  How would a prospective buyer know that the company will shut their product service down? Sometimes, it's a company that has done it before (e.g. Google). But not always.