5 ms·

Here's an article from late August with some detail [1], including the affected states: New York, Massachusetts, Alaska, Arizona, California, Indiana, Kentucky,

Here's an article from late August with some detail [1], including the affected states: New York, Massachusetts, Alaska, Arizona, California, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, North Carolina, Oregon and Vermont. I can't find anything about it on the CDC website though. Edited to add another charming detail from the article: "A 2023 study published in the journal Vaccine found in a nationally representative sample of Americans that nearly 40% believed canine vaccines were unsafe and 37% believed that vaccines could lead their dogs to develop cognitive issues, such as autism." [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/rabies-outbreaks-rising-us-deaths-vaccine-rcna227771 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/rabies-outbreaks-...

mulmen 1y ago
Is autism a thing for dogs? I have literally never thought about this but I guess it could be a thing.
- MathMonkeyMan 1y ago
  Socially awkward dog prefers not to dog.
  - mulmen 1y ago
    Social awkwardness and autism are not the same thing.
    - sellmesoap 1y ago
      It's just the excuse elon musk and bill gates use to excuse their social foibles. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
      - mulmen 1y ago
        Social awkwardness is not a medical condition. It may be that ASD leads to social awkwardness but that doesn’t mean social awkwardness is ASD.
- southernplaces7 1y ago
  I have no idea about the answer to this idea, but I did for a time know a dog that belonged to a friend, whose behavior profile across the board matched almost perfectly with how I'd imagine autism expressing itself in a dog. (the dog, not my friend) That specific dog made me just assume it was a possible thing, though I never verified with any veterinary website. It's worth a deeper look though.
- kulahan 1y ago
  There is probably some analogous disability, but I doubt there is anything identical.
goku12 1y ago
It's absolutely scary that the CDC hasn't published anything about it. They were the ultimate source of epidemiological information, weren't they? We knew this was coming. But this is the clearest sign yet that we have entered the medical dark ages.
- nelox 1y ago
  Yes, the medical dark ages. Not the metaphorical kind either, but the kind where people die foaming at the mouth because their neighbor decided a rabies shot might cause dog autism. The CDC has apparently chosen the new strategy of “if we ignore it, maybe it will go away,” which worked wonders in the 14th century. Soon, every PTA meeting will double as a plague ward while Etsy sellers crank out crystal collars to protect your doodle from brain inflammation. The irony is perfect: the world’s richest country, armed with billion-dollar labs, yet losing a fight our grandparents solved with a needle and some common sense. When your local ER is triaging between toddlers bitten by strays and adults bitten by TikTok misinformation, maybe then people will realize the dark ages don’t arrive with torches and pitchforks. They arrive with Facebook posts and silence from the institutions that should have known better.
  - injidup 1y ago
    I thought perhaps you were joking but it turns out people are also hesitant to vaccinate their pets. """ About 37 percent of dog owners also believe that canine vaccination could cause their dogs to develop autism, even though there is no scientific data that validates this risk for animals or humans. """ https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2023/nearly-half-of-dog-owners-are-hesitant-to-vaccinate-their-pets/ https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2023/nearly-half-of-dog...
    - Michaelangelo19 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - timr 1y ago
      > I thought perhaps you were joking but it turns out people are also hesitant to vaccinate their pets. Incorrect. Of the respondents to that paper's survey, 84% said that their pets were fully vaccinated for Rabies. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45329845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45329845
hirako2000 1y ago
[flagged]
throw8398394 1y ago
In my experience dog owners just do not care. Vaccine costs time and money. The same with training. Most dog owners are just lazy, and do not care. Adding some sophisticated explanations on top of that is pointless.
- timr 1y ago
  This is not my experience anywhere in the US. We don't have a problem with stray dogs, rabies vaccination is ubiquitous, and I've never heard of anyone resisting it for their pets.
- some_guy_nobel 1y ago
  Well, in my experience, "in my experience" anecdotes are lazy. Though, I'm sure this is generally more true for some breeds more so than others.
  - throw8398394 1y ago
    Those people do not care about basic hygiene or safety, but somehow develop and practise complex medical opinions!
    - Arainach 1y ago
      Have you talked to the kind of American voter who spouts antivax nonsense in the last decade? Because "these people <are incompetent at thing X> but somehow develop and practice complex medical opinions <that they heard on TV>" is literally true for millions.
      - throw834949977 1y ago
        Have you talked to average American dog owner? They leave their "kids" locked in tiny apartments alone for 10 hours a day, while working. Are not bothered if their "pet" is neurotic mess. If it becomes too annoying, it gets dumped into shelter or on streets. If it dies, it gets replaced in weeks! You are really giving dog owners too much agency!
add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
We should rebrand vaccines as "freedom shots" and get AOC to play along and call them problematic.
- southernplaces7 1y ago
  Honestly, this is just stupid in just such a way that it might work well for the right kind of person. I'm not at all joking.
- komali2 1y ago
  The potato trick. https://www.farmersalmanac.com/parmentier-made-potatoes-popular https://www.farmersalmanac.com/parmentier-made-potatoes-popu... > Still, even after all of Parmentier’s work, the French feared and hated potatoes. But Parmentier was undeterred. Determined to prove to his people that potatoes were, in fact, good, he started holding publicity stunts that included potatoes. He hosted stylish dinners featuring the maligned tuber, inviting such celebrities as Benjamin Franklin and Antoine Lavoisier. Once, Parmentier made a bouquet of potato flowers to give to the King and Queen of France. > With the publicity stunts failing to popularize potatoes, Parmentier tried a new tactic. King Louis XVI granted him a large plot of land at Sablons in 1781. Parmentier turned this land into a potato patch, then hired heavily armed guards to make a great show of guarding the potatoes. His thinking was that people would notice the guards and assume that potatoes must be valuable. Anything so fiercely guarded had to be worth stealing, right? To that end, Parmentier’s guards were given orders to allow thieves to get away with potatoes. If any enterprising potato bandits offered a bribe in exchange for potatoes, the guards were instructed to take the bribe, no matter how large or small. > Sure enough, before too long, people began stealing Parmentier’s potatoes. I've never known if the myth was true, but I've always wanted to try the trick with something to see if it works.
  - kulahan 1y ago
    Maybe a more succinct and modern example: don’t put something on the curb with “free!”, put “$50!” And it’ll get stolen in no time
timr 1y ago
> Edited to add another charming detail from the article: "A 2023 study published in the journal Vaccine found in a nationally representative sample of Americans that nearly 40% believed canine vaccines were unsafe and 37% believed that vaccines could lead their dogs to develop cognitive issues, such as autism." You should always go to the primary source. Here's the Vaccine paper [1,2]. I don't say this often about papers, but this is total crap. They did a YouGov survey of 2200 people, and HILARIOUSLY, 84% of respondents stated that their dog was up-to-date on the Rabies vaccine (another 5% weren't sure.) Oopsie! No matter...they just barge ahead with their pre-determined conclusions, and make a model of "Canine Vaccine Hesitancy" based on these responses anyway. BTW, I see no support for the claim that "40% believed canine vaccines were unsafe". The closest survey response is this one, at 30%: > Most vaccines that dogs receive are not medically necessary (You'll note that this is not a question about the Rabies vaccine. Just vaccines in general. And, of course, your guess is as good as mine what "most" means.) The whole paper is almost designed to create a narrative of "vaccine hesitancy amongst pet owners" -- it asks some questions about how people feel about animal vaccine mandates and safety in general, then tries make a a model to predict negative responses (which they call "CVH"), and then they use that to predict opposition to mandatory vaccine policies. At no point do they actually deal with the fact that the vast majority of their respondents, regardless of opinion, actually vaccinated their pet for Rabies. I don't know if Vaccine is a good journal, but this is just a classic example of a paper that should never have made it past peer review. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X23010150 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02644... [2] (full text of draft here, where you can see the data) https://ideas.repec.org/p/osf/socarx/qmbkv.html https://ideas.repec.org/p/osf/socarx/qmbkv.html
- water-data-dude 1y ago
  If 10% of people aren't vaccinating their dogs for rabies that's WAY too many, and it's a big problem. Going to good ol' Wikipedia[0], "in countries where dogs commonly have the disease, more than 99% of rabies cases in humans are the direct result of dog bite. In the Americas, bat bites are the most common source of rabies infections in humans, and less than 5% of cases are from dogs." But the article is citing sources from 2011 - if TEN PERCENT of people aren't getting their dogs their rabies shots, that number is going to increase. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies

mulmen 1y ago

Is autism a thing for dogs? I have literally never thought about this but I guess it could be a thing.

MathMonkeyMan 1y ago
Socially awkward dog prefers not to dog.
- mulmen 1y ago
  Social awkwardness and autism are not the same thing.
  - sellmesoap 1y ago
    It's just the excuse elon musk and bill gates use to excuse their social foibles. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
    - mulmen 1y ago
      Social awkwardness is not a medical condition. It may be that ASD leads to social awkwardness but that doesn’t mean social awkwardness is ASD.
southernplaces7 1y ago
I have no idea about the answer to this idea, but I did for a time know a dog that belonged to a friend, whose behavior profile across the board matched almost perfectly with how I'd imagine autism expressing itself in a dog. (the dog, not my friend) That specific dog made me just assume it was a possible thing, though I never verified with any veterinary website. It's worth a deeper look though.
kulahan 1y ago
There is probably some analogous disability, but I doubt there is anything identical.

goku12 1y ago

It's absolutely scary that the CDC hasn't published anything about it. They were the ultimate source of epidemiological information, weren't they? We knew this was coming. But this is the clearest sign yet that we have entered the medical dark ages.

nelox 1y ago
Yes, the medical dark ages. Not the metaphorical kind either, but the kind where people die foaming at the mouth because their neighbor decided a rabies shot might cause dog autism. The CDC has apparently chosen the new strategy of “if we ignore it, maybe it will go away,” which worked wonders in the 14th century. Soon, every PTA meeting will double as a plague ward while Etsy sellers crank out crystal collars to protect your doodle from brain inflammation. The irony is perfect: the world’s richest country, armed with billion-dollar labs, yet losing a fight our grandparents solved with a needle and some common sense. When your local ER is triaging between toddlers bitten by strays and adults bitten by TikTok misinformation, maybe then people will realize the dark ages don’t arrive with torches and pitchforks. They arrive with Facebook posts and silence from the institutions that should have known better.
- injidup 1y ago
  I thought perhaps you were joking but it turns out people are also hesitant to vaccinate their pets. """ About 37 percent of dog owners also believe that canine vaccination could cause their dogs to develop autism, even though there is no scientific data that validates this risk for animals or humans. """ https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2023/nearly-half-of-dog-owners-are-hesitant-to-vaccinate-their-pets/ https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2023/nearly-half-of-dog...
  - Michaelangelo19 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - timr 1y ago
    > I thought perhaps you were joking but it turns out people are also hesitant to vaccinate their pets. Incorrect. Of the respondents to that paper's survey, 84% said that their pets were fully vaccinated for Rabies. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45329845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45329845

hirako2000 1y ago

[flagged]

throw8398394 1y ago

In my experience dog owners just do not care. Vaccine costs time and money. The same with training. Most dog owners are just lazy, and do not care. Adding some sophisticated explanations on top of that is pointless.

timr 1y ago
This is not my experience anywhere in the US. We don't have a problem with stray dogs, rabies vaccination is ubiquitous, and I've never heard of anyone resisting it for their pets.
some_guy_nobel 1y ago
Well, in my experience, "in my experience" anecdotes are lazy. Though, I'm sure this is generally more true for some breeds more so than others.
- throw8398394 1y ago
  Those people do not care about basic hygiene or safety, but somehow develop and practise complex medical opinions!
  - Arainach 1y ago
    Have you talked to the kind of American voter who spouts antivax nonsense in the last decade? Because "these people <are incompetent at thing X> but somehow develop and practice complex medical opinions <that they heard on TV>" is literally true for millions.
    - throw834949977 1y ago
      Have you talked to average American dog owner? They leave their "kids" locked in tiny apartments alone for 10 hours a day, while working. Are not bothered if their "pet" is neurotic mess. If it becomes too annoying, it gets dumped into shelter or on streets. If it dies, it gets replaced in weeks! You are really giving dog owners too much agency!

add-sub-mul-div 1y ago

We should rebrand vaccines as "freedom shots" and get AOC to play along and call them problematic.

southernplaces7 1y ago
Honestly, this is just stupid in just such a way that it might work well for the right kind of person. I'm not at all joking.
komali2 1y ago
The potato trick. https://www.farmersalmanac.com/parmentier-made-potatoes-popular https://www.farmersalmanac.com/parmentier-made-potatoes-popu... > Still, even after all of Parmentier’s work, the French feared and hated potatoes. But Parmentier was undeterred. Determined to prove to his people that potatoes were, in fact, good, he started holding publicity stunts that included potatoes. He hosted stylish dinners featuring the maligned tuber, inviting such celebrities as Benjamin Franklin and Antoine Lavoisier. Once, Parmentier made a bouquet of potato flowers to give to the King and Queen of France. > With the publicity stunts failing to popularize potatoes, Parmentier tried a new tactic. King Louis XVI granted him a large plot of land at Sablons in 1781. Parmentier turned this land into a potato patch, then hired heavily armed guards to make a great show of guarding the potatoes. His thinking was that people would notice the guards and assume that potatoes must be valuable. Anything so fiercely guarded had to be worth stealing, right? To that end, Parmentier’s guards were given orders to allow thieves to get away with potatoes. If any enterprising potato bandits offered a bribe in exchange for potatoes, the guards were instructed to take the bribe, no matter how large or small. > Sure enough, before too long, people began stealing Parmentier’s potatoes. I've never known if the myth was true, but I've always wanted to try the trick with something to see if it works.
- kulahan 1y ago
  Maybe a more succinct and modern example: don’t put something on the curb with “free!”, put “$50!” And it’ll get stolen in no time

timr 1y ago

> Edited to add another charming detail from the article: "A 2023 study published in the journal Vaccine found in a nationally representative sample of Americans that nearly 40% believed canine vaccines were unsafe and 37% believed that vaccines could lead their dogs to develop cognitive issues, such as autism." You should always go to the primary source. Here's the Vaccine paper [1,2]. I don't say this often about papers, but this is total crap. They did a YouGov survey of 2200 people, and HILARIOUSLY, 84% of respondents stated that their dog was up-to-date on the Rabies vaccine (another 5% weren't sure.) Oopsie! No matter...they just barge ahead with their pre-determined conclusions, and make a model of "Canine Vaccine Hesitancy" based on these responses anyway. BTW, I see no support for the claim that "40% believed canine vaccines were unsafe". The closest survey response is this one, at 30%: > Most vaccines that dogs receive are not medically necessary (You'll note that this is not a question about the Rabies vaccine. Just vaccines in general. And, of course, your guess is as good as mine what "most" means.) The whole paper is almost designed to create a narrative of "vaccine hesitancy amongst pet owners" -- it asks some questions about how people feel about animal vaccine mandates and safety in general, then tries make a a model to predict negative responses (which they call "CVH"), and then they use that to predict opposition to mandatory vaccine policies. At no point do they actually deal with the fact that the vast majority of their respondents, regardless of opinion, actually vaccinated their pet for Rabies. I don't know if Vaccine is a good journal, but this is just a classic example of a paper that should never have made it past peer review. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X23010150 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02644... [2] (full text of draft here, where you can see the data) https://ideas.repec.org/p/osf/socarx/qmbkv.html https://ideas.repec.org/p/osf/socarx/qmbkv.html

water-data-dude 1y ago
If 10% of people aren't vaccinating their dogs for rabies that's WAY too many, and it's a big problem. Going to good ol' Wikipedia[0], "in countries where dogs commonly have the disease, more than 99% of rabies cases in humans are the direct result of dog bite. In the Americas, bat bites are the most common source of rabies infections in humans, and less than 5% of cases are from dogs." But the article is citing sources from 2011 - if TEN PERCENT of people aren't getting their dogs their rabies shots, that number is going to increase. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies