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New thermoelectric cooling breakthrough nearly doubles efficiency
- westurner 1y agoScholarlyArticle: "Nano-engineered thin-film thermoelectric materials enable practical solid-state refrigeration" (2025) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-59698-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-59698-y : > Abstract: Refrigeration needs are increasing worldwide with a demand for alternates to bulky poorly scalable vapor compression systems. Here, we demonstrate the first proof of practical solid-state refrigeration, using nano-engineered controlled hierarchically engineered superlattice thin-film thermoelectric materials. [...] The improved efficiency and ultra-low thermoelectric materials usage herald a new beginning in solid-state refrigeration.
- xbmcuser 1y agoOne of the greatest need for energy in the next few years is going to be for air conditioning if this really works it is going to be put another nail in the coffin of Oil and gas industry.
- thomasmg 1y agoAir conditioning is mostly needed while the sun is shining, and so electricity of A/C can come mostly from photovoltaics (plus batteries). So I think this technology is not quite as important. Sure, its nice to reduce electricity usage! But cheaper heat storage, for winter, seems more important.
- gpm 1y agoIf you're heating with non-fossil-fuels you're doing it with heat pumps, just like AC, just with the hot side inside and the cool side outside.
- pornel 1y agoThe press release doesn't give any concrete numbers, but if it doubles efficiency of Peltier coolers, it's still 3-5× less efficient than heat pumps. Thermoelectric cooling is notable for not having any moving parts and ability to scale down to small sizes, so it might end up having many specialized applications, but for A/C heat pumps are already very effective.
- SoftTalker 1y agoAnd what about service life? I had a mini-fridge that used this technology, and it stopped working after about 2 years. Was that just bad luck or poor quality, or some inherent lifetime of the components?
- gpm 1y agoIn principle peltier elements should be very robust over time, as a solid state system where the only moving parts are fans (versus traditional refrigeration which includes a high pressure pump...). In practice I strongly suspect most peltier based systems are built very cheaply... because their inefficiency means the majority of the market is bordering on a scam. Sophisticated consumers aren't going to be buying very many fridges built with them (of course you might have a niche use case where they actually make sense and you're willing to pay for a quality product, but do most purchasers?).
- cwillu 1y agoThermal cycles is murder on rigid electronic connections; the mechanical connection between the heatsink on each side of the peltier cell being a prime example.
- ck2 1y agoI mean USA is now subsidizing coal and wants to double toxic fracking "better" "cheaper" "cleaner" is buried by political spite agendas
- jfengel 1y agoYou can't beat gas phase change for moving heat around. But there are a lot of applications for small coolers where a compressor is too bulky.
- gpm 1y agoYes you can! Not with peltier elements, but with elastocaloric (phase changes in solid metal induced by stress) and maybe magnetocaloric (phase change induced by magnetic fields) heat pumps. There's engineering challenges here, but I believe the science is pretty clear that in principle these beat gas phase change systems.
- balfirevic 1y ago> I believe the science is pretty clear that in principle these beat gas phase change systems. Do you know by how much?
- gpm 1y agoGas phase change systems in practice are up to about 60% efficiency (relative to an idealized carnot cycle), magnetocaloric systems in labs have been something like 70%, and elastocaloric 80%. Edit: And just for reference peltier devices are usually 10-15% efficiency on this scale. So I suppose this new one is somewhere in the 20-30% range.
- cenamus 1y agoProbably very applicable, this video from Ben https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfmrvxB154w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfmrvxB154w
- cogman10 1y agoIIRC from reading up on these in the past, you need a pretty large input energy in order to make them work. The elastocaloric ones are also super loud IIRC.
- thinkcontext 1y agoThis has nothing to do with that application.
- mapt 1y agoYou can double the speed of a slug and not have it do anything meaningful as a useful domestic animal. Thermoelectric cooling is extremely inefficient, to the point that we have very little practical use for it right now. Heat pumps a hundred times more effective predominate.
- estimator7292 1y agoTEC are used everywhere, actually.
- goda90 1y agoHeat pumps can move a lot of heat efficiently. Thermoelectric coolers can move heat more precisely and in much smaller packages. They don't need to beat heat pumps at their game to be useful for their own game.
- vintermann 1y agoDoubles efficiency? From what I understand, the efficiency was pretty lousy to start with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnMRePtHMZY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnMRePtHMZY Aren't there theoretical limits to this sort of cooling too? But, if this innovation causes Technology Connections to make yet another heat pumps video, I'm all for it.
- jfengel 1y agoEfficiency is pretty lousy. But sometimes you don't want to lug around a compressor, like inside a portable device (such as a food cooler, portable computer, or even a prosthetic limb). In that case inefficient is often better than nothing.
- bradfa 1y agoBut also if this is an indication that more research effort is going into this because of breakthroughs, that’s a good thing. Double the efficiency a few more times and pretty soon it could be competitive in many uses. Solar panels used to be horrible at efficiency. Now they’re pretty amazing and extremely competitive in the power generation market. It, similarly, took a few decades of these kinds of efficiency improvements to get there.
- criemen 1y ago> Solar panels used to be horrible at efficiency. Now they’re pretty amazing and extremely competitive in the power generation market. To be fair, in my understanding economies of scale kicked in _hard_ for solar, making it much cheaper to produce single panels, moreso than making each individual panel more efficient.
- AngryData 1y agoEhh, we have managed to make pretty tiny compressors these days. Small enough that people are putting AC units into cosplay costumes. You can also buy compressor based ice coolers now that are lighter and last longer than one full of ice or one full of ice and peltier coolers.
- jcims 1y agoHoly ads Batman - https://imgur.com/a/6vwJBkT https://imgur.com/a/6vwJBkT
- whiterook6 1y agoIs this similar to Peltier coolers?
- analog31 1y agoYes, "thermoelectric" and "Peltier" are the same thing.
- imoverclocked 1y agoWhile Peltier devices are less efficient than a compressor/heat pump, they are a lot quieter due to being completely solid state. Comparing the two technologies is tempting but the applications can be very different. Since these devices can also produce power given a heat differential, they are used in spaces where you need just a little power and heat is readily available.
- privatelypublic 1y agoBy far their most useful application is precision thermal control. Need that LED or laser to be within 0.05C to maintain its wavelength? Literally nothing else can do it.
- estimator7292 1y agoAlso camera sensors. AFAIK most (all?) high speed sensors are actively cooled with TEC. All high sensitivity cameras are, most telescopes and satellite cameras also i think
- metalman 1y agointeresting to know that there are actual critical applications for this technology though it does have limitations as I think the JWST is cooled with some sort of exotic compressor useing liquid helium, though perhaps a solid state device is part of the stack as they are after a very low, very stable temperature
- privatelypublic 1y agoJWST is special in that it needs to avoid radiated photons for its IR images.
- joshvm 1y agoThe way these systems are controlled (in my terrestial experience) is to have the system be capable of cooling below the desired set point. Then you can PID the temperature using a heater or a thermal bridge/heat switch that will cause the system to warm up. It's complicated, and a lot of very interesting thermodynamics involved. It also depends if you just need "as cold as possible" or if you need to know the temperature and can calibrate out fluctuation, or if you genuinely need stability. https://bluefors.com/stories/differences-between-pulse-tube-and-gifford-mcmahon-cryocoolers/ https://bluefors.com/stories/differences-between-pulse-tube-...
- BenFranklin100 1y agoTo note, the lead investigator on this is Rama Venkatasubramanian, an Indian: https://www.jhuapl.edu/about/people/rama-venkatasubramanian https://www.jhuapl.edu/about/people/rama-venkatasubramanian This is the same sort of person that MAGA and tech workers want to discourage coming to the United States.
- danans 1y ago> This is the same sort of person that MAGA and tech workers want to discourage coming to the United States. Tangential, but let's not forget that there are also Indian MAGAs like the current FBI director. There are also influential and wealthy Indians who are more than willing to partner with MAGA to pay whatever tribute is necessary to curry favor, and throw working Indian immigrants under the bus to line their own pockets and accomplish their own personal and political objectives. In the end, it has little to do with being Indian and more to do with scapegoating and dividing tech workers among themselves, to distract them from the squeeze that big corporations are putting on them.
- thinkcontext 1y agoThe BJPs brand of ethnonationalism does have a kinship with MAGA as we've seen with the bromance Trump and Modi. But the recent tariffs have greatly changed many Indians' views on Trump, though I haven't seen anything about the views of Indian Americans specifically. I can't help but be reminded of Steve Bannon's comments about their being too many Indian tech CEOs.
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- mensetmanusman 1y agoYou might be confusing the specific with the substantive.
- BenFranklin100 1y agoYou might be confident the intended with the substantive. The intended effect is to raise American salaries. The substantive that is the MAGA’s H1-B and larger immigration policies will discourage STEM researchers to come the US. This will hurt US scientific research and is likely the most substantive long term effect on the nation. Any potential effects on tech workers salaries pales in comparison. This potential also includes lower developers salaries as American companies lose their competitive edge.
- mlhpdx 1y agoScaling up (eh, out?) MEMS compressors in matrixes seems a more likely path to success to me. Some research is ongoing there. I’m not expert, but I find it interesting.
- ajb 1y agoPrevious discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44424087 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44424087
- rcxdude 1y agoHaving looked at the paper, I don't much like their testing methodology: calorimetry is really hard (a general theme of cold-fusion 'research'), and they don't really seem to have calibrated their test setup, just calculated a theoretical value. This makes me highly skeptical of claims of COP, which can be highly sensitive to small differences in heat flows.
- gorpy7 1y agoI tried gpt to get an idea of what this meant relative to compressor tech and i had to put my tail between my legs and crawl back in my cave. it said it could be COP very efficient iirc COP 50 over tiny temp lifts. i don’t fully understand that yet. But the theme is matching the application with techs characteristics. solid state should be great but as someone mentioned, expansion and contraction at the solder or connection is troublesome. on the other hand, those that mention it wouldn’t work for residential cooling/heating should keep in mind the cost of installation for current heat pumps- if this cost could be reduced or homeowner-capable, then that’s a huge win. My point is is this constellation of characteristics the SOTA and how they interact with the moving world can be hard to track and if something isn’t viable, it may suddenly become viable. it’s a tricky thing to notice if you’re just looking at the one characteristic of efficiency.