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Student visas still exist. O1 visas still exist. Other routes I can't remember off the top of my head exist. The door is not closed. Indeed, even H1B visas stil
by fastball 1y ago
Student visas still exist. O1 visas still exist. Other routes I can't remember off the top of my head exist. The door is not closed. Indeed, even H1B visas still exist, assuming that young talented person is worth $100k more than a US citizen.
> the US wins wins when people move to the US, especially young, skilled people.
I personally lean towards this being true, but it is a claim that needs to be demonstrated comprehensively for your argument to hold water. It is not trivially true.
- adgjlsfhk1 1y agoyou know what's really stupid? when we give someone a student visa and then don't have a easy to keep them in the country on a work visa
- fastball 1y agoIndeed, though if you make that route too easy (or with limited oversight), you end up with diploma mills that aren't actually educating anyone. Incentives are hard to align well.
- marticode 1y agoIt wouldn't be hard to select and accredit at least the better universities. Giving an automatic work visa to every foreign Ivy graduate should be a no-brainier. You could take the top 30% or 50% ranked US News universities and accredit those, or some similar heuristics.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y agoGreat point, and since the post-graduation right to work is already a thing I believe this has already happened
- mc32 1y agoIs that a thing in most countries? Like if I go to university in Brazil I can easily get a job as a foreigner there?
- adgjlsfhk1 1y agoBrazil isn't a great example here since it is a Portuguese speaking country leading to relatively low immegration, but for Germany, for example a work visa takes 1-3 months to process, and unlike h1b there is no quota.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y agoStudent visas in the US come with the right to work for some time after graduation. If the foreign student isn’t valuable enough to stay after a degree and multiple years of work I think it’s fine to send them home. But me personally, I advocate many fewer student visas.
- nikkwong 1y agoWhat world are you living in? Many Chinese come in on student visas, get jobs at FAANG and then have to move back to their country after losing the H1-B. These are the people we want, doing the jobs that we want them to do, and we’re too nearsighted to figure out how to keep them. Again, these are the most talented, most affluent minds that China has to offer. Sure, let’s have them work for the CCP rather than keeping them in the west.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago[flagged]
- vkou 1y ago[flagged]
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y agoUse game theory for #3: -You're a Chinese national in the US on a work visa or student visa -CCP asks you to do something What do you do?
- vkou 1y agoLet's use game theory for #3. - You're an American running a business in the US (or somewhere else). - Trump (or some TLA) demands that you do something, holding a threat over you. What do you do? Are all Americans actually pawns of MAGA, or the spook agencies? How should the world respond to this implication?
- pandaman 1y agoHow so? Anybody who has a student visa had to prove that she or he has strong ties to the home country and no intent to remain in the Untied States, and that she or he only needs to get education in the US to come back and apply it for the home country's benefit. If these people have not defrauded the US then they would not know what to do with a work visa as they'd be hurrying back home as soon as they received their diploma, pulled by those strong ties and the desire to finally put the education to use at home.
- vkou 1y agoLet's turn this around - would the US win if young, skilled people were net-leaving it? Imagine spending 25 years raising, educating, feeding, and clothing a person, investing over a million dollars of money and labour in them, and then they just pack their bags and leave. Educated, skilled, young immigrants are a colossal gift to the host country, and a crippling debit on the welfare and prosperity of the country they have left. --- Anyone who has ever given it more than thirty seconds of thought knows that countries become wealthy when people living in them work - and make stuff. So what do you do to improve a country's prosperity? Obviously, in backwards-logic, you start raising barriers to people who want to do useful work in it. (Because dealing with the systemic issues that have resulted in the country becoming prosperous not being correlated with the plurality of people in it not becoming prosperous would upset wealthy people who don't actually build anything.)
- estebarb 1y agoThere are studies regarding that: almost half of S&P 500 companies were founded by immigrants or their children https://www.brookings.edu/articles/almost-half-of-fortune-500-companies-were-founded-by-american-immigrants-or-their-children/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/almost-half-of-fortune-50...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- nwienert 1y agoThis doesn’t really tell us much, and isn’t really relevant to H1B either. If we had 0 immigration, all S&P 500 companies would be founded by non-immigrants.
- outworlder 1y agoNot really. Companies would still be founded, but there's no way to tell if they would ever grow to the point that would be listed in the S&P 500.
- nwienert 1y agoNot sure if you don’t know how they define the S&P, or straw-manning.
- estebarb 1y agoThat is half true. It also would be a USA without Apple, Nvidia, Google, Tesla, Intel, Qualcomm, Yahoo, Paypal, eBay, Pfizer, P&G, Goldman Sachs...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dalyons 1y agoThis is a useless “technically correct” rejoinder. Yes, the top 500 would by definition still have 500 companies in it. Yes, the net value of the s&p would almost certainly be lower without the innovation brought by immigrant founders. Which is obviously the point being made.
- bmitc 1y agoHave you never met an H-1B worker?
- huevosabio 1y agoThese other visas are incredibly complicated to get. And funneling everyone through student visas is just inflating demand for uni degrees. What someone's labor is worth is up to the market to decide. Also those $100k are taxed out of the employer and employee's value. On the benefits of people moving to the US: it's been widely studied and it's basic economics, immigrants bring both supply and demand, so the size of the economy grows and so the opportunities to current residents. Take the extreme: when people leave a country or city the economy there collapses, see Detroit or the increasingly old and depopulating European countries. Or take the extreme on who comes: fiscal studies show that even low skilled immigrants are net positive fiscally. Only very old and unskilled immigrants are a fiscal burden. Finally, thinking that we can capture the world's economy in a bottle and live lavishly without competition is delusional. If we stop letting people build here, they will build elsewhere and without us. We are increasingly less relevant.