4 ms·

Can every industry pay $200k? I bet software, AI, or finance would be okay paying $200k, while e.g. hardware, aerospace, or biotech would have a harder time. T

by nine_k 1y ago

Can every industry pay $200k? I bet software, AI, or finance would be okay paying $200k, while e.g. hardware, aerospace, or biotech would have a harder time. The idea of requiring a high salary is reasonable, but I'd make it rather e.g. 120% of the median salary in a particular industry.

wahnfrieden 1y ago
If they can pay a $100k fee, they can pay a similarly higher wage instead
- abirch 1y ago
  This makes sense if H1-Bs are about lack of talent instead of cheap labor.
  - wahnfrieden 1y ago
    That's what they're supposed to be about. OP proposed a way to put that into practice. Of course it is abused for cheap labor
cogman10 1y ago
Who would have a harder time? The company that wants to bring in employees? Sure. But I'm also sure that the top experts would be lining up to take such a job. The companies wouldn't struggle to find someone abroad. The percentage could be reasonable, but I think it's too easily gamed. You just know the company would try and say they are bringing in entry level people for whatever they want and use whatever lowest median they could find. There needs to be a fairly significant minimum salary to avoid such monkey business. An H1B job should be cushy. Otherwise, the company should simply raise salaries to find local workers.
- nine_k 1y ago
  This is why I say about the median salary across a branch of industry. A company is free to bring in anyone they want, but not free to pay them entry-level salary then. They should rather pay entry-level salary to local folks, e.g. recent graduates. The point is to bring above-average workers from abroad, as you say. I don't think it's easy to game the median number, or the third quartile number if you prefer. Unless the salary distribution is severely bimodal, it should work reasonably.
Jcampuzano2 1y ago
Dare I say - If you're desperate for skilled workers, they should probably be highly compensated due to simple supply and demand. If you can't find somebody skilled enough here to work for 200k or less, then you should probably be paying 200k or more since you're looking for a role that is niche and low supply.
- scheme271 1y ago
  There's also a bunch of organizations that are desperate and can't pay. E.g. a lot of rural and VA hospitals are staffed by H1B physicians. A rural hospital in the middle of Idaho won't attract a cardiologist through salary (i.e. the 500k/yr they can make in cities) and probably won't be able to afford a 100k application fee to get one. Also for lots of researchers and post-docs, 100k is more than their annual salary. This fee is a great way to ensure that there's very little medical services available to rural populations and to help kill science in the US among other things.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    > Also for lots of researchers and post-docs, 100k is more than their annual salary. Don't post docs usually come over on J-1s (if they aren't using practical training)?
  - Avicebron 1y ago
    There are plenty of first-rate medical schools in the US, it's very possible to increase the supply of qualified doctors to re-balance. Yes it will probably mean a similar scenario where doctors are paid somewhat less than they have been previously, but hey, look how bad engineering has gotten these past 20-something years relative to where it once was as a comparable profession to medicine.
    - DragonStrength 1y ago
      Exactly. The difference is doctors were able to cap the number of doctors graduated, and now we have a shortage. Welp, I know the solution to that.
consumer451 1y ago
Since we have relatively reliable economic data on median income per industry, it would be really stupid not to use that data in a formula such as the one you suggested. To go further, I believe there’s good data on cost of living, geographically. It would probably be wise to use that in the formula as well, so as not to disadvantage smaller areas, where cost-of-living and salaries are lower.
- davorak 1y ago
  > To go further, I believe there’s good data on cost of living, geographically. I like the goal of making sure visa works are paid well for where they live. I would not want to restrict the visa worker geographically though. Or alternatively I am unsure about the overhead of tracking the location visa holders and enforcing salary changes. Might also have unintended knock on effect of encouraging job growth in low cost of living areas.
  - bigfatkitten 1y ago
    This already happens. One of the ways of qualifying for a National Interest Waiver for doctors, for example is by agreeing to work for some time in a designated underserved area.
ApolloFortyNine 1y ago
The entire market works through supply and demand. The basic idea is if you can't find someone willing to work for $x an hour you have to raise x until you find someone. The h1bs are often used to abuse that system by just importing someone willing to work for x, with the added bonus of it being very hard for them to ever leave your company.
anigbrowl 1y ago
All things like this should be percentages/ratios. The idea of using $ amounts in legislation and regulation is fundamentally foolish.

by nine_k 1y ago

wahnfrieden 1y ago

If they can pay a $100k fee, they can pay a similarly higher wage instead

abirch 1y ago
This makes sense if H1-Bs are about lack of talent instead of cheap labor.
- wahnfrieden 1y ago
  That's what they're supposed to be about. OP proposed a way to put that into practice. Of course it is abused for cheap labor

cogman10 1y ago

Who would have a harder time? The company that wants to bring in employees? Sure. But I'm also sure that the top experts would be lining up to take such a job. The companies wouldn't struggle to find someone abroad. The percentage could be reasonable, but I think it's too easily gamed. You just know the company would try and say they are bringing in entry level people for whatever they want and use whatever lowest median they could find. There needs to be a fairly significant minimum salary to avoid such monkey business. An H1B job should be cushy. Otherwise, the company should simply raise salaries to find local workers.

nine_k 1y ago
This is why I say about the median salary across a branch of industry. A company is free to bring in anyone they want, but not free to pay them entry-level salary then. They should rather pay entry-level salary to local folks, e.g. recent graduates. The point is to bring above-average workers from abroad, as you say. I don't think it's easy to game the median number, or the third quartile number if you prefer. Unless the salary distribution is severely bimodal, it should work reasonably.

Jcampuzano2 1y ago

Dare I say - If you're desperate for skilled workers, they should probably be highly compensated due to simple supply and demand. If you can't find somebody skilled enough here to work for 200k or less, then you should probably be paying 200k or more since you're looking for a role that is niche and low supply.

scheme271 1y ago
There's also a bunch of organizations that are desperate and can't pay. E.g. a lot of rural and VA hospitals are staffed by H1B physicians. A rural hospital in the middle of Idaho won't attract a cardiologist through salary (i.e. the 500k/yr they can make in cities) and probably won't be able to afford a 100k application fee to get one. Also for lots of researchers and post-docs, 100k is more than their annual salary. This fee is a great way to ensure that there's very little medical services available to rural populations and to help kill science in the US among other things.
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  > Also for lots of researchers and post-docs, 100k is more than their annual salary. Don't post docs usually come over on J-1s (if they aren't using practical training)?
- Avicebron 1y ago
  There are plenty of first-rate medical schools in the US, it's very possible to increase the supply of qualified doctors to re-balance. Yes it will probably mean a similar scenario where doctors are paid somewhat less than they have been previously, but hey, look how bad engineering has gotten these past 20-something years relative to where it once was as a comparable profession to medicine.
  - DragonStrength 1y ago
    Exactly. The difference is doctors were able to cap the number of doctors graduated, and now we have a shortage. Welp, I know the solution to that.

consumer451 1y ago

Since we have relatively reliable economic data on median income per industry, it would be really stupid not to use that data in a formula such as the one you suggested. To go further, I believe there’s good data on cost of living, geographically. It would probably be wise to use that in the formula as well, so as not to disadvantage smaller areas, where cost-of-living and salaries are lower.

davorak 1y ago
> To go further, I believe there’s good data on cost of living, geographically. I like the goal of making sure visa works are paid well for where they live. I would not want to restrict the visa worker geographically though. Or alternatively I am unsure about the overhead of tracking the location visa holders and enforcing salary changes. Might also have unintended knock on effect of encouraging job growth in low cost of living areas.
- bigfatkitten 1y ago
  This already happens. One of the ways of qualifying for a National Interest Waiver for doctors, for example is by agreeing to work for some time in a designated underserved area.

ApolloFortyNine 1y ago

The entire market works through supply and demand. The basic idea is if you can't find someone willing to work for $x an hour you have to raise x until you find someone. The h1bs are often used to abuse that system by just importing someone willing to work for x, with the added bonus of it being very hard for them to ever leave your company.

anigbrowl 1y ago

All things like this should be percentages/ratios. The idea of using $ amounts in legislation and regulation is fundamentally foolish.